Constructive Stealth RvR Query

[Cashandcarry]

No flaming or bull please im only interested in constructive comments and contributions.

I have a RR5 scout and consider myself reasonably good at playing it.

I go away for a week and when I am back I patch in SI and see that Alb has lost the relics - fair enough.

What I would like to hear from other scouts is :-

1) has your miss rate increased ridiculously against every target?

2) is it now almost impossible to solo a SB whether you jump him or he jumps you?

3) any advice on what I should be doing different? (apart from never leaving atk without a full group)

4) has the loss of IP for assassins been a nerf for scouts cos they have replaced it with purge/see hidden/MoP - and hence in my opinion are stronger against us.

5) Has SC made the problem worse - i have pretty much capped stats skills and the important resists yet my opponents seem to have even better.

I used to have fun in RvR, and always felt like I at least had a chance against an sb, but now I cant remember winning a one-on-one.

I would love to here from stealthers from all 3 realms about their current experiences?

No crap "you got owned" messages please - I am well aware that at the moment i am gifting rps to any mid sb and his mum, so in the vain hope i might enjoy RvR again I hoped to get some feed back.

 

[old.LandShark]

We lost 20%damage, they gained 20%. 40% relative damage change, unless my reasoning is faulty somewhere...
They just got 40% more hp than us. And yes, they do ALL seem to have purge now.
Sigh.
Also more buffbots around these days at the MTK, I understand

 

[Jergiot]

Originally posted by Cashandcarry
No flaming or bull please im only interested in constructive comments and contributions.

I have a RR5 scout and consider myself reasonably good at playing it.

I go away for a week and when I am back I patch in SI and see that Alb has lost the relics - fair enough.

What I would like to hear from other scouts is :-

1) has your miss rate increased ridiculously against every target?

2) is it now almost impossible to solo a SB whether you jump him or he jumps you?

3) any advice on what I should be doing different? (apart from never leaving atk without a full group)

4) has the loss of IP for assassins been a nerf for scouts cos they have replaced it with purge/see hidden/MoP - and hence in my opinion are stronger against us.

5) Has SC made the problem worse - i have pretty much capped stats skills and the important resists yet my opponents seem to have even better.

I used to have fun in RvR, and always felt like I at least had a chance against an sb, but now I cant remember winning a one-on-one.

I would love to here from stealthers from all 3 realms about their current experiences?

No crap "you got owned" messages please - I am well aware that at the moment i am gifting rps to any mid sb and his mum, so in the vain hope i might enjoy RvR again I hoped to get some feed back.

how would i know they are never alone

 

[old.Niljindil]

As landshark said, losing 2 relics has *quite* the impact

 

[Cashandcarry]

I suppose the relics have a made a difference - fair play to mids for getting them. But should they make that much of a difference?

Even if I do get a slam in - and then in the say 20% of occassions that purge is not used, then in the 33% of occassions that my crit actually hits i am only hitting for about 550 - 650, not enough damage really cos lets face it the 2nd shot is likely to be evaded/miss/interrupted anyway.

I know sbs are our predators - but at least in the wild the prey occassionally escapes - I dont have that option.

Sorry about this - really gutted atm at how my character suddenly seems totally gimped.

More constructive comments welcome though - especially from the sbs as to whether they have any hassles with scouts anymore?

 

[Tranquil-]

Bring on Longshot and Volley and I'll SMOKE their buffbots :F
Mobile GTAoE artillery :F

 

[Aeiedil]

a couple of things. the sb might be a shadowzerk who relies on melee and already did huge damage without the relics hence your pwnage

as for this statment

4) has the loss of IP for assassins been a nerf for scouts cos they have replaced it with purge/see hidden/MoP - and hence in my opinion are stronger against us.

personally i never possessed IP and only had see hidden, MoP, Dualists reflexes, and the aug con.toughness ra's to improve my meleeing. although your point is valid, it is not specifically aimed at scouts alone. it can be said that the removal of ip from assassins has made them shorter-living, however harder hitting indirectly through the reasoning that you pointed out. all in all i never liked IP because of the cost, and for those that used to have it then the extra points must have made anice difference. this can not be helpd though without removing the other ra's, which i would hope mythic do not get the silly idea to do because that is basically idiotic and as for more people having see hidden, afaik most assasins get see hidden when they start rvring before the otehr ra's, and so the removal of IP would not have increased the amount of shades with see hidden

hope that all makes sense

 

[Tranquil-]

Removal of IP helped mostly against classes that can stand up long enough to deal damage to them. Tanks etc. To the ones that couldn't stand up against assassins for a very long time it mostly just made assassins deal more damage, nothing else changed.

 

[Aeiedil]

tbh i never liked IP anyway, to expensive, especially for a nigthshade, when theres many other ra's that help our damage better

MoP
Dualists Reflexes
Wild Arcana
Viper (expensive imo, but worth it when used)

(i dont have WA or Viper, cant afford )

as for defence, i find dodger useless now because of the 50% cap, and my favoured ones are Aug Con and Toughness (apparently avoid pain is good but i havent got the points to try )

anyway thats not what the threads about removal of ip has just changed tactics ie the weaker classes (referring to ability to take damage) have been weakened against assassins while the stronger classes (same conditions) have been strengthened

 

[Kagato.]

Whilst its true the IP removal helped tanks against them, it just means whereas in the past they might stand and fight against a tank till dead, there just even quicker now to turn and run. On the very rare occasions there alone that is of cause.

Taking IP away just encouraged more shadowzergs to back them up.

 

[Jiggs]

i havent noticed any difference in damage with no relics, cap seems to be the same, maybe it just raises base damage?

anyways buffs > relics it seems

 

[Carlos Bananos]

I think it's a bit over both more RA pts (from ip) and the relics.

I've definatly notised a huge boost in my damage, and infils/Mincers hit a hell of a lot softer now.

But i also crit tons more (higher MoP).

 

[Carlos Bananos]

Originally posted by Jiggs
i havent noticed any difference in damage with no relics, cap seems to be the same, maybe it just raises base damage?

anyways buffs > relics it seems

Nah Relics > Buffs imo.

 

[Aeiedil]

imo it seems like a situation of damned if you do, damned if you dont people ddidnt like the assassins with IP, and now they dont like the assassins without

 

[etcetra]

Re: Re: Constructive Stealth RvR Query

Originally posted by Jergiot


how would i know they are never alone

Stop whining about that, as i have seen you alone once last week - and that was today in Emain Macha.
Not saying its anything wrong with grouping, as i do that most of the my time, but you are grouping yerself, btw i want a 1on1 with you once :c) Not to prove anything, just to fight :c) im sure it can be interesting.

 

[kinadold]

Buy truesight, find a few other scouts, some speed, a cleric, maybe a tank and you can farm them all day long.

Its fun, nothing they can do and it feels damn good.

Killed 30+ today, and would have tommorow if i did not have to work

Have fun fellaw scouts.

 

[skile]

1. I missed my only chance of victory, the critshot vs a SB. It just doesn't add up that a 60 lb, 1380 weapskill scout can miss a target standing still 1m ahead of you.

2. It is possible. Won vs Venomis, unbuffed and he buffed (ofc). Due to IP. If he had his purge up i would have got my ass very owned ofc. But SB's group these days. And without IP up, and they with purge you don't have a shot of killing them. I'd reckon I could win against every SB out there tho, if every thing goes right. Slam and +50% hp left before I get it in.

3. Go gorge, try to get groups. Only be solo at gorge, never never anywhere else. But it's hard going to gorge these days, since u have to time going through amg together with a group. Due to the famous SB-zerg.

4. Depends, If we have IP up and they purge down we can win vs buffed SB's. Which we couldn't before patch. But this is not often. As we also get interuptbugg(why is there such a thing?) and stunned before firing the second shot after crit. Can't tell, to be short .

5. We are so depending on our critshot. Assasins are classes that are not so depending on one thing, therefor the SC-resistcap affects us more.

Scouts are now the worst class in game. We are, no point in argue. Rangers are better these days. We would be good if RA's never were introduced.

 

[skile]

Originally posted by kinadold
Buy truesight, find a few other scouts, some speed, a cleric, maybe a tank and you can farm them all day long.

Its fun, nothing they can do and it feels damn good.

Killed 30+ today, and would have tommorow if i did not have to work

Have fun fellaw scouts.

Yeah, gathered a group of 6 stealthers and (3 scouts with TS) and went SB-ganking. But Nolbypride always turned up in our fights (prob a cry for help from the sb's). We also died to 6 SB's at amg. What can 6 stealthers with no buffs do against 6 sbs with buffs.

 

[Glottis_Xanadu]

Feel so gutted, but had to spend 10 rp's on getting TS, SB's just too annoying. Bad thing is, I need to get a group each time, cause even with getting a crit off on an SB, I cannot kill them.
They will evade most arrows, even with 1700 weaponskill. If I'm lucky, they run away, and I can get them down to 50% hp... but then their gay lovers come to gank, so little use.
Several TS scout in a group are indeed great fun. Would love to set up a group to do that on a regular, non stop basis. Teach those sad SB some of their own medicine.
Ah well, sweet dreams
Regards, Glottis

 

[-Wedge-]

Galerrard is a bit more happy now, owned a few hibs / mids in Odin's gate before he had to log... Also killed a few SB's in Emain when he used TS...

But I sure notice the effects of the relics, Beserkers hit hard without them, they hit VERY hard with them :|

Oohwell, should get my SC suit ready, got all the parts already... Just need to put it all 'on it' ...

 

[Jergiot]

Re: Re: Re: Constructive Stealth RvR Query

Originally posted by etcetra


Stop whining about that, as i have seen you alone once last week - and that was today in Emain Macha.
Not saying its anything wrong with grouping, as i do that most of the my time, but you are grouping yerself, btw i want a 1on1 with you once :c) Not to prove anything, just to fight :c) im sure it can be interesting.

are u drunk or something? iv grpd maybe once or twice this week, mostly all alone, ask ur SB grps that ganked me all week long.

 

[Trinilim]

Tbh it doesn't matter that SBs group now.

I don't like it.

I hate it.

But it's a tactical advantage (yes I said tactical).

Safety in numbers afterall..

 

[salamurhaaja]

Blame on your mincers that so many of us sb's specced see hidden after ip gone. I bet only a few would have taken see hidden of there weren't those mincers

 

[Carlos Bananos]

Originally posted by Glottis_Xanadu
Feel so gutted, but had to spend 10 rp's on getting TS, SB's just too annoying. Bad thing is, I need to get a group each time, cause even with getting a crit off on an SB, I cannot kill them.
They will evade most arrows, even with 1700 weaponskill. If I'm lucky, they run away, and I can get them down to 50% hp... but then their gay lovers come to gank, so little use.
Several TS scout in a group are indeed great fun. Would love to set up a group to do that on a regular, non stop basis. Teach those sad SB some of their own medicine.
Ah well, sweet dreams
Regards, Glottis

Ahh, your a scout, no wonder your so bitter


but cmon, the Evading every arrow is BS, me and Aada where talking about this last night...Archers seem to whine how they miss/fumble/get evaded like 80% of the time, yet whenever i get TS popped, they dont miss a single shot

 

[skile]

Heh. Are you really saying TS is great? It's on a 30 min timer. Compared to your constant archers always active true sight.

But then again. I got a tip from some angry SB on a US.board. He said every scout went afk 30 min at atk to go out and kill SB's. Sounds like a good idea. TS, volley & longshot.

Then I could log in my minstrel, get a group and do some normal RvR. Then when timer rings I'll log in scout and kill a couple of Sb's at amg. Hey, could be fun. Just to revenge the zergs and the buffs.

 

[Snake.ster]

shouldnt be able to evade a arrow travelling at 150mph anyway , full stop.


put see hidden on a timer like Ts or best of all , take them ra's away , make all stealthers have same % to see eachother ..otherwise why bother stealthing , class when a 50 tank runs thru u , shame when a 50 assin runs over 400 metres straight at u and hits u , with 7 others stuck to his ass .........lvl the playing feild for all stealthers imo , and give archer classe's quivers too put our nice arrows into

 

[Glottis_Xanadu]

If a SB runs at an archer in a straight line, you will evade most shots. And even with buffs, an archer can only get off about 2 shots before the SB reaches them. So lets say 800hp damage. Then we still will have to be very lucky, and land slam, not have it purged, or we are dead. This is a VERY positive scenario.

Evade might be capped at 50%, but SB still evade everything I throw at them. I normally just run, and let myself be killed. Do not have the RP's yet for IP.
Best RP for a scout to get must be purge, so you can maybe, just maybe, manage to run away after you purge the poisions.
Regards, Glottis

 

[Spamb0t]

Originally posted by Carlos Bananos


Nah Relics > Buffs imo.

pah!
relics + buffs > nothing.

 

[kaod]

Originally posted by skile
1. I missed my only chance of victory, the critshot vs a SB. It just doesn't add up that a 60 lb, 1380 weapskill scout can miss a target standing still 1m ahead of you.

Same can be said for high level tanks who miss huge trolls stood right in front of them. Evades are acceptable ofc.

Originally posted by skile
2. It is possible. Won vs Venomis, unbuffed and he buffed (ofc). Due to IP. If he had his purge up i would have got my ass very owned ofc. But SB's group these days. And without IP up, and they with purge you don't have a shot of killing them. I'd reckon I could win against every SB out there tho, if every thing goes right. Slam and +50% hp left before I get it in.
[/B]

And if everything goes right for an unbuffed SB v a scout, with RA’s up, the SB could beat all scouts.

Originally posted by skile
3. Go gorge, try to get groups. Only be solo at gorge, never never anywhere else. But it's hard going to gorge these days, since u have to time going through amg together with a group. Due to the famous SB-zerg.
[/B]

Jeez you albs are bitter cry-babies. SB face the same kind of milegate blockages at times, try whining at your realm mates and having little digs at them like this.

Originally posted by skile
5. We are so depending on our critshot. Assasins are classes that are not so depending on one thing, therefor the SC-resistcap affects us more. [/B]

Excuse me Mr Know-it-all, depends greatly on SB spec.

Originally posted by skile
Scouts are now the worst class in game. We are, no point in argue. Rangers are better these days. We would be good if RA's never were introduced. [/B]

Too busy feeling sorry for themselves and whining about SB’s on BW, and maybe too “proud” to group?

Originally posted by skile
Yeah, gathered a group of 6 stealthers and (3 scouts with TS) and went SB-ganking. But Nolbypride always turned up in our fights (prob a cry for help from the sb's). We also died to 6 SB's at amg. What can 6 stealthers with no buffs do against 6 sbs with buffs.

Do you know for a fact they were buffed? Perhaps its just an excuse for losing.
NP turning up a cry for help from the sb’s?
Ho-ho, with this kind of humour, the long xp stint to 50 with you must have just flown by.

Originally posted by Glottis_Xanadu
SB's just too annoying.... but then their gay lovers come to gank, so little use.
…Teach those sad SB some of their own medicine.

<shake of the head> Someone needs to do some serious growing up.
No, no, you're right, there is a "Are you a homosexual?" check box to tick on the trainers text box when you join the House of Loki.

Originally posted by skile
Heh. Are you really saying TS is great? It's on a 30 min timer. Compared to your constant archers always active true sight.

The main difference of course is that you can hit a SB from great distance with TS and finish them off before they get anywhere near you. You actually get the chance to hit back at a SB that finds you.Timer on See Hidden would be crap, cos unless we used something like shadowrun to get over to you, most of the time our chances to attack will be gone.

Originally posted by skile
But then again. I got a tip from some angry SB on a US.board. He said every scout went afk 30 min at atk to go out and kill SB's. Sounds like a good idea. TS, volley & longshot.
Then I could log in my minstrel, get a group and do some normal RvR. Then when timer rings I'll log in scout and kill a couple of Sb's at amg. Hey, could be fun. Just to revenge the zergs and the buffs. [/B]

I mean, seriously. If you are playing a scout and can’t figure this out for yourself then it’s little wonder you get killed. You must be tactically inept.

Only afk of course, because you change the scenario halfway through - if you log the timer won't go down.

 

[Cashandcarry]

Well most people took this thread as intended and have contributed to a discussion, others have missed the point and flamed/whined.

I must admit I am gutted that one of the ways I like playing best (ie solo/duo) has been eliminated, but Wedge is right when he says I cheered up somewhat after I grouped with some guildies.

I'll just have to reluctantly adapt my play style.

I have no comment on stealth zergs - they are part of the game - and I quite enjoy mass stealth battles, though there is nothing more annoying than being whipped before you are even out of sight of the TK.

To fix scouts (all archers), assuming that see hidden and true sight are unchanged, the biggest issue is our hit %.

I have been recently keeping a manual record of the number of my shots which actually cause damage and from memory it was 27%. That includes missing stunned!!/seated!! targets/blade turn/block/evading when I had used TS!! I add that this is with 61 Longbow and 1,680 weaponskill!!