PC Master Race Consoles Vs PCs

[Scouse]

Regarding fps, yeah it's a given that a lot is compromised with just a pad.

That's my argument with Toht right there.

It's clearly not a given in his case. I tried to lay out my thinking clearly but toht will be toht...

 

[fettoken]

Well then there's nothing else to add to that topic imo. Moving on!

 

[~Latency~]

Admittedly @Raven's a bit of a mild troller - but if you think it's "console hate" then you've missed the point completely - and the specific statements about consoles and their controllers being fantastic for certain types of game.

The problem here is console-controller fanbois being unable to accept that they're not as good for first-person-shooters.



At last we're getting to the nub of the problem. It did matter to some people. I didn't like goldeneye and I lived with the guy who made it. And it was down to controller.



Alternatively - I can't think of a single awesome FPS game released in the last decade because their design has been hobbled because they have to cater to controllers. Decent games? Yep. But not awesome.



And this is the nub of your argument too - you simply don't care about games much (which is totally fine). I've got no kids and therefore have time to plough into socialising, keeping fit, holidaying (most weekends are spent far from home) - and gaming.

It annoys me that my gaming experience is massively compromised. - yeah, it's not for everyone. Fine. I've always seen consoles as a casual gaming platform anyway. But I'm not a casual gamer. Never have been. Which is why I won't compromise....

Um, nail on the head? A kb & mouse is definitely "better" by definition, it's miles better for aiming, but for a lot of people "better" is convenience a.k.a a controller, the fact that's harder to aim doesn't even factor in to it.. it's the same for everyone playing the game on that platform, so it becomes a non issue (for most people I'd assume anyway)

Heh, Raven calls console players mouth breathers etc at least once a week, which one might assume is pc bias and console hate, because it literally is. It's not even to do with controllers, mostly to do with frame rate etc, not even something someone playing a console game controls

So the argument boils down to games that weren't developed (essentially fictional games) because consoles exist, which is a difficult one to argue to be fair, I'd probably agree though but there's not a lot that can be done about that now :|

I've got no kids too and no real commitments, but I still think consoles are more than casual machines, I've been to the midnight release of half a dozen console games this year and it's been awesome.. Bloodborne/BF:Hardline/The Witcher 3 in particular have been awesome and I usually book days off to play all day/night and I've never hoped for a higher FPS/different way to play to be fair

 

[Raven]

Heh, Raven calls console players mouth breathers etc at least once a week,

Find one instance.

If you are also trying to say 30fps 720 is as good as 60fps 1080 then, I don't even...

 

[old.Tohtori]

Yeah it's really simple tbh. There are good games that are both on PC and consoles, there are bad games on both. There's games that work on one and not the other.

Only thing that matters is if you're having fun with it. Was XCOM "consolified"? Yes. Did it matter? Hell no, it was still an excellent game. Can't wait to see how the next one works out when it's PC first, but wouldn't care if it wasn't.

Maybe devs aren't making PC exclusive FPSs anymore because PC players weren't buying them in such a quantity that would make it profitable to do so. You can't make a PC exclusive with bankrupcy as a goal

And if an indie firm did scratch up the cash to make a FPS that's "old school pc fun", then all the people would cry about how short it was, or how there's no story, or how multiplayer doesn't really work and so on.

 

[Scouse]

The profitability argument of a PC only release is a false one.

It's simply that cross-platform makes even more money - at the cost of the game not being as good.

 

[TdC]

Tbh the first time I bothered to compare PC vs. Console was back in the old UT days.

A mate had UT on a console. I'm fairly unskilled on a controller, and I immediately noticed that the game took it into account: playing a level against my mate and some bots, a bot would trundle up until I could see it and would then stand still and look at me while I carefully aimed at it. On the PC I would have been dead many times in the time the console allowed me to aim before the bot reacted. I call that dumbing down. Playing GTA4 and Drake's Fortune on my PS3, there was a button that allowed me to "aim-lock" on to an enemy, to save me the effort of actually getting skilled enough with the controller to aim and kill enemies within a reasonable amount of time. I call that dumbing down too.

While this can be engineerd around by tweaking AI and game behaviour, and ofc depending massively on the kind of game you're playing, whatever spin you give it to me it's still dumbing down. In fact, engineering the game or the AI to make this behaviour less noticable / more playable by controller users can become noticable in and of itself and that is also a massive no-no to me. Since my pleasure of playing games comes from a mix of immersion and challenge, the last thing I want to feel is the notion that the game is coddling me or jollying me along. Therefor I prefer to play fast paced games, or FPS games on a platform that minimises the chance of me feeling like that.

 

[Scouse]

That, my dear teedles, is game design influenced by controller is it not?

Anyway - RPS has a mildly interesting take on movement and the new Doom.

 

[Moriath]

Find one instance.

If you are also trying to say 30fps 720 is as good as 60fps 1080 then, I don't even...

I find 30 fps just as playable as 60 fps. Most games i play on either product are 1080p

 

[leggy]

Fuck me, 4 pages already?

I assumed everyone would be like 'oh fuck off jock cunt' and move back to the random spam thread.

 

[Embattle]

I've had proper PCs for a long while (post Acorn) and Consoles for even longer all the way back to an Atari 2600, however the last few generations I've decided to skip since I just didn't play them and I prefer my PC. PCs are more powerful and generally always have been but they are more expensive as well and for most people a console is enough, plus some games are often hardware exclusives to either Sony or Microsoft etc.

It is all personal preference and people should enjoy what ever they play.

 

[Moriath]

Fuck me, 4 pages already?

I assumed everyone would be like 'oh fuck off jock cunt' and move back to the random spam thread.

This has the potential to become the longest running thread in fh history. With the least amount of content.

 

[Raven]

Consoles being cheaper is a fallacy (even if you ignore the need to have a TV). The money you save in software over a few years more than makes up the difference, plus much of that software is expandable for free via mods.

You don't need to spend £1000+ on a PC, you can build a perfectly decent one for around £500

Also, horses for courses, if you prefer a console then go for it...that doesn't take away from the fact that a PC is more powerful and just better all round. There is nothing you can do on a console that you can't do on a PC, including gaming with a pad and using a TV but there are countless things you can do on a PC that a console will never be able to do.

 

[Raven]

This has the potential to become the longest running thread in fh history. With the least amount of content.

Like a console then

 

[Moriath]

Like a console then

I would argue that point but i cant be bothered hehe

 

[old.user4556]

Fuck me, 4 pages already?

I assumed everyone would be like 'oh fuck off jock cunt' and move back to the random spam thread.

There's too many Scots on this forum, bunch of south-east sponging, crack smoking, heroin addicted, deep fried mars bar eating, wait.

Anyway, here's my thoughts.

I don't get the big deal? They're different tools for different jobs. I was a big time PC gamer for the simple reason that a mouse / keyboard will always be a much higher precision tool for serious, dare I say, FPS gaming athletes. Quakeworld and Q3 Arena take precise control to absolutely master (as @Scouse mentioned up above) which is utterly unachievable with a console controller. In addition, the raw horsepower of the PC is a truly slick and sexy experience, especially in 4k which consoles won't achieve (not for a while at least).

That all said, I also have a PS4 which is absolutely fine for casual gaming. The lack of 1080p isn't a big deal when you a) sit a reasonable distance from the screen and b) your TV isn't that big anyway. When your mates come over and you want to grab a quick game of FIFA or NHL, the console nails it. I've got Battlefield 4 for the PS4 and it looks glorious on my 65" TV. Sure, the controls are ghey compared to the PC for FPS, but it's decent enough for single player campaign and, again, your mates can have a shot without having to sit down at a PC in another room.

Consoles make a good social focal point (Mario Kart anyone?) for casual stuff, but serious gaming? Give me a PC. My ultimate point is: what's wrong with having both?

 

[Scouse]

what's wrong with having both?

Nothing.

The original argument was about toht refusing to acknowledge that console controllers have had an effect on FPS design.

I agree totally with what you say

 

[old.user4556]

The original argument was about toht refusing to acknowledge that console controllers have had an effect on FPS design.

Well I think that's absolutely obvious personally.

 

[TdC]

That, my dear teedles, is game design influenced by controller is it not?

Anyway - RPS has a mildly interesting take on movement and the new Doom.

well chum, from my vast experience of making exactly one game while on a course at le uni (I made a Pong clone for the Nokia phones that ran Symbian OS), I can tell you that a vast portion of game engineering is, well not dumbing per-se but slowing down the AI. My AI wasn't particularly bright, so it had no concept of strategy or anything like that, but it did always know exactly where the ball was going and could work out to a great degree of accuracy where said ball would end up (using trigonometric functions (aka the only math I am actually any good at)). I made it beatable by introducing a random error in the math, and a slowdown of the AI reaction time, both of which decreased as you leveled up in the game. Most awesome thing I ever did see was two full-speed AI's duking it out on a phone. It was how I imagine ninja's fight or something. I sudder for the human race if we ever let AI's control weapons!

anyway, with regard to the design of a game, what Toh has to say about it and what I personally think... I'm thinking that discussing these things is a bit of a problem of definitions. I'm not a game designer, but I am fairly sure that there is a difference between design choices, e.g. what concepts are we dealing with given a certain set of requiremments, and engineering choices, e.g. the translation of the found concepts in to a reality. when Toh talks about game design being the same for different platforms I have the notion that he is firmly in the conceptual world and quite correct. when people like you and me bitch about game engines or AI's doing things that allow for the shortcomings (or OP-ness) of a given platform, we're moaning about implementations, or in other words what the engineers had to do to meet the given set of must-have requirements. we're still in the same venue, but very much in different seats tbh. catering to the quirks of every platform specifically becomes a question of economics, which is a shame really. in this day and age the thickness of the walls of one's money-house is where it's at, and labours of love are few and far-between

 

[Calaen]

I'm building a MAME cabinet, Arcade games piss all over console and PC games

 

[old.Tohtori]

I'm building a MAME cabinet, Arcade games piss all over console and PC games

Operation Wolf on cabinet? Best time ever!

On PC with mouse? This was it?

 

[Bodhi]

I do wonder, if PC games are so awesome, why do their proponents spend all day arguing on the Internet about how awesome they are, rather than playing the bastard things?

Anyway I'm going to dust off my previous gen hardware and do some 1080p/60 fps shiznit, because apparently, this is important.

 

[Calaen]

Operation Wolf on cabinet? Best time ever!

On PC with mouse? This was it?

The light guns are going to be the most expensive components of the build, but it'll be worth it when I'm using them with the floor pedal on Time Crisis!

 

[old.Osy]

PC wont ever be the master machine unless it fully cracks down on piracy IMO. If they can sort that they might start putting more effort into maximizing PC games and not making everything multi-platform.

Get out.

 

[Moriath]

I cant be arsed to pirate any more. Games just too easy to download dont need to go to the shops and can re download any time you like.

Its how the music and movie industry should be.

 

[old.Tohtori]

I do wonder, if PC games are so awesome, why do their proponents spend all day arguing on the Internet about how awesome they are, rather than playing the bastard things?

Because it's easy to comment while your character autoruns in Skyrim, or your opponent takes F*CKING FOREVER on turn 1 in hearthstone

 

[Hawkwind]

Who here can give an example of a game that couldn't be ported to a console because it has a controller? Any FPS, any time, that absolutely requires a mouse+kb?

Starsiege - too many control keys in this old FPS Mech

 

[old.Tohtori]

Starsiege - too many control keys in this old FPS Mech

Yeah, i could see some issues with a mech game tbh. If ported to a console it would probably need some UI rework, or some clever button combinations. Movement and shooting, weapon switching etc wouldn't be an issue, but when you get into the technical stuff of controlling a mech.

 

[leggy]

@Jupitus @TdC

Ok who changed the category!!!????????

NSWF was the trooths! Not Safe for Reading would have been better.

 

[caLLous]

@Jupitus @TdC

Ok who changed the category!!!????????

NSWF was the trooths! Not Safe for Reading would have been better.

*whistles*

I think we've found our culprit!