Changes at Goa

[Reignfire]

When GOA has to get these people back, and get newbies with them, and get people to support newbies, even at the expense of hurting other subcommunities and they might think it is important to break dominance of these leet crews, then both TT incident and the breaking up of dueling circles serve a solid purpose. If this is the case, you can understand all the recent questionable decisions from Requiel.

Totally disagree with this part of your reply. The only responsibility that the Community has to anyone within the community is to be respectfull to one another. At the end of the day everyone is an individual and should be treated as such. Example if a new player asks me for help on something depending on what i am doing at the time I might or might not help him. If I am in RvR you can not expect me to drop from the group just to help him say do his epic or CLs. on the other hand if i wasnt busy then i might.

What has the TT incident and the duelling circles got to do with 'newbies' how does these event hurt 'newbies'? Or are you telling me it hurts them because by some adverse effect these have somehow stopped the 'newbies ' from gaining xp or Rps?

 

[Skaven]

Take care Requiel, see you on war for some more lovely Chaos Theory mischief

Hi all btw

 

[Cromcruaich]

Normally I dislike quoting stuff point by point as it always ends up with one or two points being argued over at the expense of the spirit of the overall post, but i'll do it here.

GOA sees that some of the big guilds on dyvet no are casual guilds, and they can help newbies, new players can join their ranks, etc.

The big guilds have always been casual guilds - its the nature of the beast. Being an rvr guild doesnt exclude helping and supporting new members either. Nothing has changed here, the hardcore rvr guild were always a minority numbers wise.

Dyvet is the only cluster where there is significant conflict between different scenes, and it results in flaming, people leaving, etc. and from the events GOA has reasons to think: this casual scene is important. Before this, they favored some other (more hardcore players) but it only made things worse, so they have to focus on keeping these people now. They have rights to ban people for the reason: GOA thinks they hurt their interests or interests of the game. Spawning guards, placing back relics, etc. are all normal.

You craft a good sentence, but make a poor argument . There has been never been any favouritism to hardcore players. Ever ever - please find example to support otherwise. This makes the whole supposition above incorrect. The casual scene has always been more important as it has always had a larger number of players - in raw number terms that was much more in a year ago and more than it is now.

When GOA has to get these people back, and get newbies with them, and get people to support newbies, even at the expense of hurting other subcommunities and they might think it is important to break dominance of these leet crews, then both TT incident and the breaking up of dueling circles serve a solid purpose. If this is the case, you can understand all the recent questionable decisions from Requiel.

GOA are not recruiting new players - they know they wont get any - they are infact targetting leavers. In anycase again you really are off the mark. There really is no master plan to get people flooding back to the game through a series of anti 1v1 and 8v8 players - you are also commiting a really common error - associating people who are abusive and unhelpful in game with people who are those who prefer 1v1 and 8v8 fights - it simply isnt the case. Even if it was - it is the wrong approach - they need to encourage back the old players who left becasuse of poor treatment - these people may comeback, additionally they need minimise leavers before WAR to maximise the revenue stream until that cash cow starts producing milk. Its a good argument youve tried to make, but I really dont think its anywhere near the truth of the matter.

And you might add: if these people flame against casuals, etc. who support these decisions might lead to even bigger steps taken by GOA. You can point to the recent changes to CoC.

You might even add: Several people are happy with the changes, speak about it with friends, and it might help GOA to get back a lot of people, and support the new people if (and when) they advertise.

Not a single player will return because of that action. Another well argued but totally flawed point.

The question is: Is the so called solo, fg and irvr scene willing to cooperate with casuals and help newbies to level, so they help the recovery effort? Or they say: "we don't have to do it, and we can do our best to hurt and destroy the game for them". The later kind of responses can result in more and more harsh action from GOA and can pretty much destroy these scenes and communities.

Everyone can decide: if they want to cooperate and help the server to recover. Or care about their own small scene at expense of each other, and destroy the game around themself.

Misrepresentation as usual of 1v1 and 8v8 players - and ive made posts about this before.

Firstly many of those 8v8 and 1v1 play other chars and enjoy all aspects of the game - you mix up their persona on FH where arguments and views are concentrated and more polarised against the day to day reality of how people actually play on Duvet.

Also, there is no question about destroying or hurting the game for them - this is completely arse over tit - 1v1 and 8v8 players dont dictate to other people how they should play outside of how they interact with those 1v1 and 8v8 players - they dont foist a play style on others - they only request that you respect theirs - and more often and not they request that reaonably. It is people who insist on ruining those players fights that are foisting their playstyle on them, they are the abusers, the soloers are the abused.

Its another (almost) complete falacy I believe that the fair fight crew are abusive as a matter of course - and a new player or unknown player who adds is generally politely told not to - its not new players who are abused - they might be very interested to know that there is more going on than just sitting in a tower and/or running with the zerg. I know I was when i first found out about the fg scene. The abuse lets be honest when it occurs is generally between people who know the score on both sides. Its the nature of the game.


On another side - in my earlier days it was extremely exciting to know there was a set of players who had taken game play to another level - a foe who could cut through 24 or more enemies and live to tell the tale - such skilled play was something to aspire to, it was good to know there was somewhere else to aim for. Now what do people aim for, who is there to champion the game - do we look up to the bridge campers and AC raiders as people to emulate, for an example to follow?



I agree with your last point though , its a shame they didnt have more man hours available to more closely work with the players on a daily basis - to engage and get to know people, to run more events both in game and out of game. To spruce up the news contact rather than the very staid news we get at the moment - there is no approachable face of GoA - its all so humourless and impersonal.

 

[Dukat]

Misrepresentation as usual of 1v1 and 8v8 players - and ive made posts about this before.

Firstly many of those 8v8 and 1v1 play other chars and enjoy all aspects of the game - you mix up their persona on FH where arguments and views are concentrated and more polarised against the day to day reality of how people actually play on Duvet.

Also, there is no question about destroying or hurting the game for them - this is completely arse over tit - 1v1 and 8v8 players dont dictate to other people how they should play outside of how they interact with those 1v1 and 8v8 players - they dont foist a play style on others - they only request that you respect theirs - and more often and not they request that reaonably. It is people who insist on ruining those players fights that are foisting their playstyle on them, they are the abusers, the soloers are the abused.

Its another (almost) complete falacy I believe that the fair fight crew are abusive as a matter of course - and a new player or unknown player who adds is generally politely told not to - its not new players who are abused - they might be very interested to know that there is more going on than just sitting in a tower and/or running with the zerg. I know I was when i first found out about the fg scene. The abuse lets be honest when it occurs is generally between people who know the score on both sides. Its the nature of the game.

On another side - in my earlier days it was extremely exciting to know there was a set of players who had taken game play to another level - a foe who could cut through 24 or more enemies and live to tell the tale - such skilled play was something to aspire to, it was good to know there was somewhere else to aim for. Now what do people aim for, who is there to champion the game - do we look up to the bridge campers and AC raiders as people to emulate, for an example to follow?

:worthy: Well said ^^

Even if its been said 100 or 1000000 times before, there still seems to be people who just dont get it Always good to see someone saying it how it is.

 

[Esselinithia]

How you define 8v8 people?

People who sometimes 8v8? Even most casuals would fit the bill, so that isn't a good idea.

I think there are two generic kinds of players:

Ones who look for friends and fun, and aren't defined by any specific in game goal and playing style.

And people who look for superiority in reaching some in game goal in specific set of playing styles.

8v8 and 1v1 people are both subgroups of the 2nd group.
Casual people are the 1st group (even if they run in an fg at specific time)

Hey: Even my friends took me to run with them in an fg, but none of us wanted to compete in fg scene, we wanted some fun. And if I care more about how much I can heal in PVE raids, and less about usefulness in RvR? Fun matters, fg performance isn't.

Wouldn't call any of these people as fg people, because they never cared to compete with other fgs in a serious competition. They just had fun with friends, and they spent just as much time with PVE, and they knew I like big sieges over rvr anytime, so we had trebs and rams on us for most of the time.

But I knew many many people who were rude, selfish, abusive, greedy because they wanted to compete in fg fights, they promised all kinds of help in many forums, but when I joined them, and asked for advice, they flamed and said they already told this to the newbies 3 months ago. I only played for like 2 weeks that time. This is why I left a such guild behind, and seen many people being greedy, etc. because their fg performance is the only thing they care.

Interestingly: When I found some realm mates soloing, there were causal people who were quick to invite the friendly cleric wo tried to help, and there were others who yelled to go away since I ruin their chances at soloing and it can cost them RPs.

Yes, there are people who just want to have some fun with friends in their free time (casuals) and Hard core people who prusue a single in game goals.

I loved PVE, and I knew several people who RVRed more. When it was allowed to roll on loot you don't use on your own character, I often rolled for items they needed, just to give these items to them. Even if they used the template mostly for fg fights. Why? Because I knew they care more about friends (including me) than winning in FG.

Some of other friends, even as casuals, liked solo fights. I had a buffbot, they was less lucky. Guess how they got their buffs? Sometimes after working on fixing towers, we spent hours in team with scouts. At other times I seen scouts who hated to see visibles around their towers and flamed.

Currently I play very little daoc, and spend most of my time on Gaheris, which is a cooperative server, with no RVR (we farm some seals to turn them in for RPs) but I still help some dyvet guild with web page related stuff. (I left when many of my friends left, and it became hard to arrange good groups to get things done on dyvet, and I became more and more busy both on Gaheris and in other games.)

I draw the line between 8v8 and 1v1 people based on what is important in the game: friends and fun. Or competition based on some in game goal.

(I ended up with friends arguing with me not once, because they insisted if I spend most of my time helping and I need more to raise my tradeskill, I should tell them and accept the money instead of farming... and some wanted to see more good items on me...)

See how I draw the line between 8v8 and casual? I think if you use this way to see who is in which group you will agree with much more of the older post.

And yes: Anytime I checked the game, I seen newbies, both on dyvet, and on Gaheris.

Both TT incident and Dueling ring related stuff made it clear: self defined competition is much less important than the community. (such competition is less important than in game goals, and in game goals are less important than the fun and friendship).

Before this, such incidents went on without any action from GOA, now GOA acts.

 

[Manisch Depressiv]

You should really get your head of your ass and stop pretending that solo or FG guys play for the RPs.

They play for the challenge/comeptition/to stay on top.

Only because Mythic wrote that you have to play one of the 3 parties like a communistic asshole this game is not just 3 parties versus each other.

It includes solo play, small/full group play, battlegroup play, alliance, realm level play. The "it's a RvR game" argument is silly and it does not mirror the reality in in DAoC or most historical war conflicts.

If you are trying to force everybody to see it through the realm level binocular only then you are just narrowminded, nothing else. The game never was just blue/red/green.

Play like you want to, I don't care, farm all day on Gaheris or run stuck to 40 people trying to kill one guy who is fighting someone else. At the end I don't care and I will not abuse you in game for it.

But stop the poor assumptions about cheating/RP farming/illegal way of playing. I am not the friend of every Alb, you and GoA can not force to be it.

Man versus man fights existed long before you were born and man versus man fights still exist. In DAoC, you don't fight for existance, you fight for fun which can be often self defined competition! If you want to pursue the orginal approach (to crush realm enemies) you need to add severe death penatlies (corpse looting, RP loss). But what do you know playing on a PvE server?

In a properly immersed game world realms would fall, in DAoC a FG can restore/destroy the realm balance when everybody is sleeping.

 

[Reignfire]

Ones who look for friends and fun, and aren't defined by any specific in game goal and playing style.

And people who look for superiority in reaching some in game goal in specific set of playing styles.

8v8 and 1v1 people are both subgroups of the 2nd group.
Casual people are the 1st group (even if they run in an fg at specific time)

Who the hell are you to say what group I fall into? This type of bullshit post just goes to show how clueless you are.

I solo when I feel like I want my own space but I STILL while I solo talk to friends via PM or Ventrilo. I run in groups of friends and seek fun in having fg v fg fights its all about the CHALLENGE that is how me and others like me find our fun. Nothing to do with being superior. Its just people like you with an inferiority complex that are trying to tell others how to play and if they dont play by your rules they are wrong and must be removed from the game.

Maybe if you tried others people of play and put the time and effort into it you might enjoy more and not worry about how others play. Can it be you are too lazy to try and find a purpose within the game and improve so want to get rid of all the challenging aspects within the game because you are too scared to try and compete?

 

[wittor]

Take care.

 

[CorNokZ]

Goodbye Req and Xalin! No matter what ppl say, I think you've done a good job over the years! Good luck in the future guys

BS

Go zerg a freeshard

 

[Pio]

I take it GOA didn't like my CV then psssht!

 

[Svartmetall]

Can it be you are too lazy to try and find a purpose within the game and improve so want to get rid of all the challenging aspects within the game because you are too scared to try and compete?

And here's why the game's dead.

 

[Esselinithia]

Who the hell are you to say what group I fall into? This type of bullshit post just goes to show how clueless you are.

Mister, you are in the group of arrogant agressive abusive antisocial clueless morons. Why?

Because noone said which group you belong to.
But I told you how you can draw the lines between these groups to make sure we can discuss things.

You haven't made any better guideline, you don't know any, because you don't think.

But flame and make abusive posts.
This behaviour alone places you in the group of arrogant agressive abusive abusive clueless morons.

Would you want to join other groups by making intelligent posts?

 

[Esselinithia]

Manisch:

1st: You are free to use /duels if you want, we have a system for dueling. It doesn't give RP because organized fights, and fights where you don't fight for your realm but just for fun, shouldn't give any RP rewards. Dueling rings are a way to earn RP (some extra rewards you don't deserve) in duels.

2nd: Solo fights: No problem, dueling rings and claiming an area for them and yelling at each and every adds, etc. is a problem.

3rd: "They play for the challenge/comeptition/to stay on top."
The problem is here. Challenge is something that was good in the game, till the fg people, etc. started to moan so much about how hard it is to TOA new fotm alt, that all the PVE people seen was: Fun and sometimes challenging (not in 150+ man zergs) raids killed and almost everything is made soloable.
If you, mister doesn't care for my fun, my challenge I shouldn't care for yours.

Even in RvR: While it was good fun to take keeps, but since it ruined the usual irvr and dueling places you people started to whine and destroyed fun of other people. Why should they care about your fun and your challenge.

You want to stay on the top? We wanted to have more fun in TOA and your whines pretty much destroyed it. The state of classic shows one thing: classic never appealed to the majority, and didn't get much people back.

Why? Because many people who left after toa was unhappy with the greed and destructuive behaviour of morons who want the top spot, and not with new content and new challenges.

After TOA, the loss of players were minimal, in fact the new players after launch of the expansion had far greater impact than leavers, and some sizeable portion of leavers left because of the greed, and because it was hard to start the game that time (people who bought the game at that time had low amount of groups to level in)

The moment Mythic started to make TOA easier, the amount of people leaving increased. Why? Because Mythic took away challenges because of whiny bitchy people. And now the same whiny bitchy people wonder where these people are and look for a fix to population problem.

PVE people won't be back on dyvet, and won't try to get their RAs there if PVE scene is mostly destroyed on it.
Siege people won't be back on dyvet if sieges are mostly destroyed because of irvr and dueling rings.
People who fight for relics won't be back on dyvet as long as they have nothing to fight for since some leet fg people would reduce keep levels anyway after some xrealm communication.
People who play to help newbies, and friends won't play the game, if TOA and everything are made too easy, and the community flames the newbies and claim they doesn't exist. (use /who often and look at lfg)
New players won't stay in the game if they don't have fun, and if their chances at earning MLs are low. And for them,getting BPs, without templates, without MLs, without RAs and without experience is a bit low, and again they can't team up because people want their famous top spot.

Want to change this? We need changes both in how you play, how rules are enforced, who will be mythic TLs, and how they fine tune difficulty of encounters.

Cornokz: Go play Counter Strike

 

[joap]

Manisch:

Challenge is something that was good in the game, till the fg people, etc. started to moan so much about how hard it is to TOA new fotm alt, that all the PVE people seen was: Fun and sometimes challenging (not in 150+ man zergs) raids killed and almost everything is made soloable.
If you, mister doesn't care for my fun, my challenge I shouldn't care for yours.

I'd venture to say that ToA was a far harder problem for the casual RvR oriented player than for the 8v8 folks.

Take a look at say Zoarkat. It would be pretty hard for a casual player to get it in the old days. You'd need 1-2 FGs to do it, it would drop only 1 item and people would roll for it. Our hero would have a 1 in 8 to 1 in 16 chance of getting the arty.

On the other hand people from the "8v8 scene" would have their high RRs toon that could probably do Zo by themselves, all the times they needed until the whole guild had it.

Why? Because many people who left after toa was unhappy with the greed and destructuive behaviour of morons who want the top spot, and not with new content and new challenges.

And herein is the problem of TOA.
It was done in a way that favored greed and selfishness.
Maybe i'm being apologetic of the players, but i see more problems with the expansion than with the players themselves

Siege people won't be back on dyvet if sieges are mostly destroyed because of irvr and dueling rings.

Come again!?
Dueling rings drove away siege people???

People who fight for relics won't be back on dyvet as long as they have nothing to fight for since some leet fg people would reduce keep levels anyway after some xrealm communication.

And people who defend relics on hib and mid won't come back as long as they have to put up with weekly or monthly AC raids by the likes of CM, who then come on the forums and say "oops, we didnt mean to RR, we were only trying to get people out at 4 am".

 

[Esselinithia]

AC raids are destructive, not only for defenders, but also for people who would take the relic in a fair way. You know: if albs take a relic by AC raid, it is hard to take that relic the fair and good way prime time the same day.

AC raids are just as destructive for siege and relic raid people as irvr...

And for dueling ring: if you claim the lands around a keep as a place for dueling and soloing only, that essentially says it should be off limits for sieges, and often that said keep would be a good target.

About Zoarkat and so on: I think TOA had a different design flaw, and this explains why making it easier was a mistake.

Before TOA everyone accepted that they can't get the best set from epic dungeons, you can't have everything, an SC set was balanced between the effort you put into it, and its benefits.

Artifacts, some good ML loot, etc. was easy enough to get so this delicate balance was broken: Everyone wanted all the useful artifacts since they were able to get it, even the casual players.

It was a problem both challenge wise, and balance wise. And also made doing all TOA encounters mandatory. This combined with the greed and selfish attitude of some people was a bad combination.

So while many say, the biggest flaw of TOA was: it took too much time, and it was too hard... I realy doubt that getting fully TOAed was as hard as getting a full SIDI set with apoc items, etc. before TOA. In fact TOA was FAR easier.

If TOA would be at least comparable in difficulty to SIDI, it would be a LOT better.

 

[Cromcruaich]

How you define 8v8 people?

People who sometimes 8v8? Even most casuals would fit the bill, so that isn't a good idea.

I think there are two generic kinds of players:

Ones who look for friends and fun, and aren't defined by any specific in game goal and playing style.

And people who look for superiority in reaching some in game goal in specific set of playing styles.

8v8 and 1v1 people are both subgroups of the 2nd group.
Casual people are the 1st group (even if they run in an fg at specific time)

Hey: Even my friends took me to run with them in an fg, but none of us wanted to compete in fg scene, we wanted some fun. And if I care more about how much I can heal in PVE raids, and less about usefulness in RvR? Fun matters, fg performance isn't.

Wouldn't call any of these people as fg people, because they never cared to compete with other fgs in a serious competition. They just had fun with friends, and they spent just as much time with PVE, and they knew I like big sieges over rvr anytime, so we had trebs and rams on us for most of the time.

But I knew many many people who were rude, selfish, abusive, greedy because they wanted to compete in fg fights, they promised all kinds of help in many forums, but when I joined them, and asked for advice, they flamed and said they already told this to the newbies 3 months ago. I only played for like 2 weeks that time. This is why I left a such guild behind, and seen many people being greedy, etc. because their fg performance is the only thing they care.

Interestingly: When I found some realm mates soloing, there were causal people who were quick to invite the friendly cleric wo tried to help, and there were others who yelled to go away since I ruin their chances at soloing and it can cost them RPs.

Yes, there are people who just want to have some fun with friends in their free time (casuals) and Hard core people who prusue a single in game goals.

I loved PVE, and I knew several people who RVRed more. When it was allowed to roll on loot you don't use on your own character, I often rolled for items they needed, just to give these items to them. Even if they used the template mostly for fg fights. Why? Because I knew they care more about friends (including me) than winning in FG.

Some of other friends, even as casuals, liked solo fights. I had a buffbot, they was less lucky. Guess how they got their buffs? Sometimes after working on fixing towers, we spent hours in team with scouts. At other times I seen scouts who hated to see visibles around their towers and flamed.

Currently I play very little daoc, and spend most of my time on Gaheris, which is a cooperative server, with no RVR (we farm some seals to turn them in for RPs) but I still help some dyvet guild with web page related stuff. (I left when many of my friends left, and it became hard to arrange good groups to get things done on dyvet, and I became more and more busy both on Gaheris and in other games.)

I draw the line between 8v8 and 1v1 people based on what is important in the game: friends and fun. Or competition based on some in game goal.

(I ended up with friends arguing with me not once, because they insisted if I spend most of my time helping and I need more to raise my tradeskill, I should tell them and accept the money instead of farming... and some wanted to see more good items on me...)

See how I draw the line between 8v8 and casual? I think if you use this way to see who is in which group you will agree with much more of the older post.

And yes: Anytime I checked the game, I seen newbies, both on dyvet, and on Gaheris.

Both TT incident and Dueling ring related stuff made it clear: self defined competition is much less important than the community. (such competition is less important than in game goals, and in game goals are less important than the fun and friendship).

Before this, such incidents went on without any action from GOA, now GOA acts.

Thats kind of one of the points I was making, that 8v8 and 1v1 players actually engage in all aspects of the game - I use 8v8 and 1v1 as simple labels here that some people find useful to define peoples game outlook. It essentially refers to people who want even fights number wise (accepting RR differences) and are prepared to let other people resolve such fights that they see on some or all of their game characters. Ive made quite a few points in the past raising this point, as people often choose to ignore the fact that there is more to how people play than this one issue.

Regards rest of the post - sorry at work - i'll have a read at lunch

 

[Gahn]

Pelican Report:

A) Esselinithia is the new GM who changed CoC.
B) Esselinithia is Requiel personal account on FH

Either way, dude ... stop your Crusader, get your so called new comers to Daoc, "teach" em to zerg (which is the REAL final scope of the game), tower and bridge camp, mindless door bash etc etc (funny ain't it?).
Then when the overpopulated realm will drive away last ppl from the 2 underdogs (cause let's face it, getting flattened 100 vs 30 over and over is funny and without the FG bastards those 30 will just perma /rel /rebuff and /rel) close the door in yer way out.

 

[Cromcruaich]

Another bit that I was gonna include in previous post but timed out:

Bit more of a read - yea, I believe that some older full groups could be a bunch of cnuts, with a bad elitist attitude, these were a minority, and personally though there were a couple of individuals who could be idiots (mainly expressed in simply being rather aloof) ive never had a bad experience running with the pribs, even old Nolby Pride groups were basically sound, though they would criticise you if your play was found wanting. Maybe there were a small number of Excal individuals who were part of the fg scene who were abusive, but the key point is that it takes two sides to start an abusive conversation (well mostly) and its easy for a conversation to go that way but I dont believe thats typical for a non-add person and a new person - but more typical of two people who both come down on opposite sides of this discussion.

Also overall, judging by FH weve come quite a long way down the road of actually having a bit of mutual respect - and people rehashing these old stereotypes doesnt serve a very useful purpose. For example, Kinetix has mellowed quite a bit, we used to argue like cat and dog, along with others, I certainly have changed my outlook, and certainly consider it as part of the game to get embroiled in large battles around some of the areas where I would of expected fg fights - so a lot more slack is given on both sides, except for certain individuals, for example Awarkle, who seems to of had a personality transplant and is now completely unable to sympathise with individuals who dont share his play style.

I'll also say this again - people having fair number fights would be quite happy simply being left alone (particularly 1v1) to finish those fights - the first action down the road of conflict here is adding on those fights - thereby completely preventing those people from playing how they wish - if they were just ignored there would be no conflict - I guess its just the state of the population that means it isnt viable for those players to move off a sensible distance.

Anyhow, I dont think we're actually a million miles from each other opinion wise, just some of your points in that previous post I quoted I believed to simply be wrong.

 

[Esselinithia]

Hibs can hve enough newcomers too In fact, I think the realy high population for albs on dyvet and the problems come from the same fact: from where these players come from.

CS, UT, and other fps games, and an online gaming scene. And for these people they knew who Arthur is, but the other realms wasn't tempting.

Mythic recruited most of their people from fans of different fantasy and roleplaying games at many events, and if we look at german and french playerbase, we can see that their background is a bit different.

Also their attitude is different.

But it also leads to one other big point: if for other servers, Mythic and GOA had ok success to get players from other roleplaying games (including other MMORPGs) and fans of fantasy literature, etc. and with well designed recruiting events you can get players to play in specific realm. So you can fix both population problem and problem of severely underpopulated realms at once.

The only thing GOA would have to do is, to advrtise in roleplaying related magazines, and attend events held by fantasy and roleplaying fans. If they choose an event where they can focus on elves, and the lore of hibernia in Dark Age of Camelot, and interested people can get an extended trial, and volunteers and existing hibs can support the newcomers that can help to fix 2 problems at once.

The problem about fg and solo scene is here, because they can't accept the "adds" from the rest, and can't be tolerant. Which can be understandable, since 100vs30 isn't fun for any side. Either no chance, or no challenge.

But if we want to fix any of these problems the key trick is to recruit. And choose a good source of players.

Greed problems at TOA times were more visible on prydwen and excal because alb was overpopulated (everything camped) and other two realms were underpopulated (hard to raid everything at good rates).

 

[Esselinithia]

I'll also say this again - people having fair number fights would be quite happy simply being left alone (particularly 1v1) to finish those fights - the first action down the road of conflict here is adding on those fights - thereby completely preventing those people from playing how they wish - if they were just ignored there would be no conflict - I guess its just the state of the population that means it isnt viable for those players to move off a sensible distance.

People who love PVE would be happy wth some hard mode TOA and some even harder raids, if whine from others wouldn't make Mythic to make everything easymode. And if they need MCL, etc they would be happy if people would whine when they attack the next red target. So in most cases I doubt if an add that comes later, and from a casual player (not awarkle who is E&E and all) would change much in most cases (and you can ask him to stop, he leeched his RP and he can kill the red after your fight finished).

When I played on prydwen I seen solo fights as a simple thing: If I add, I can get closer to some important RAs (I need them for PVE raids). If I don't add, the soloer doesn't respect that I am PVE fan, and I would just rezz for RP, but would attack my poor full rejuv cleric.

So what is best? To add. Since waiting, rezzing while other sees, and letting you fight again would be cheating (but it would be good RAs for me the easy way).

Since I mostly play on Gaheris, I have easier time. I can get RAs for killing mobs. Some mobs come with adds, but who cares?

But somehow I can't agree with the people who say albs are easymode, since on gaheris, I had easier time with my hibs.

 

[prodical]

i read all the post in this thread. i find it amusing. Esselinithia is like a politican. he just tows the party line and sticks to his guns, but also the fact that he mentioned that he isnt into the fg scene and prefers seiges etc troubles me. we have a bias here from a gm which isnt good. now im gona stick my head on the block hear. i know who you are ingame, i know the guild you play with and what they are like. i can see that you enjoy playing there, nice people, relaxed atmosphere, no stress. there is also roleplay in the guild, enjoyment in joining a zerg, camping a bridge etc and ofc helping each other out in pve. however i rvr with members of your guild, and x members who love the fg challenge and cant imagine going back to running 2fg on stick. i think the problem is you had a bad expierence with fg rvr. i suggest that you balance your views and not dictate to people how they should play. 1v1 or 8v8. you comment about the /duel command is troubling. if people want to stand around and fight each other let them? how does it effect you? this notion of rp farming is nonsense. people i would imagine duel each other to test there skills or to make roleplay movies, not rp farm. if they wanted to rp farm they would be solo in a zerg? also its like saying that stealthers should now not run solo. why? well lets say a rr2 inf meets a rr11 ns. the ns ofc will win 90% of time. if the rr2 if goes back again and again isnt the rr11 ns just farming him for rps? is it not the rr2 inf's choice to go back and try to beet him over and over, much like a duel area for lower rr's to try and beet higher rr's or the same rr people to duel each other?
realistically whoever is incharge at goa needs to come down to earth and look at this sever and realise what type of player base there is. comparing us to french or german severs dosent work. we are different cultures, who have different expierences and frankly dont need rules slapped upon us because people who get rolled by soloers or fg's when they add pm a gm on msn to whine cause they died then a gm pops to insta kill with with guards.

PS sorry if my points are all a mesh. im very hungover

 

[Dard]

When I played on prydwen I seen solo fights as a simple thing: If I add, I can get closer to some important RAs (I need them for PVE raids). If I don't add, the soloer doesn't respect that I am PVE fan, and I would just rezz for RP, but would attack my poor full rejuv cleric.

Why solo on a rejuve cleric ? you hoping to heal someone to death or somthing

 

[Esselinithia]

I doubt if any GM posted here, besides Requiel, so I don't know how you say any GM is biased, since Requiel is an ex GM now.

2fg on stick isn't good.

But all in all: Respect only works if it goes two ways.

While RvR people can get toa stuff in RvR, PVE people can't get RAs without facing you. You have 2 options.

Let these people get their RP at missions, sometimes help them (attack soloers who would stop them) and all be happy.

Or face the fact: you made it hard for them to get the much needed RAs without teaming up and killing weaker targets. PVE people won't fight for fun (sieges can be like small raids so can be fun for otherwise PVE people) they will fight because they have to.

And they won't be sympathetic to people who made their lives harder and less fun (demanding changes at TOA), but these soloers, fgs, will be the means of getting the much needed RA, so these PVE and casual people will add, and the 1v1 and 8v8 people can't blame anyone but themselves for it.

When PVE people can move in frontier freely for their goals (for PVE) they probably won't attack anyone, and might help / rezz after fights without hurting you. Since mutual respect works this way.

It is broken when PVE people got attacked most of their fun destroyed (by whines, demands, agressive and abusive people), adding is a result, if you are abusive with comments after adding, it is another step, and will make the results even worse.

Again: It is up to 1v1 and 8v8 people.

I know, if I would go back to dyvet, I would probably add on fights where people who doesn't respect PVErs, fight. They made my life harder, they made my game less fun, and they would stop me from getting my RAs in mission if they can, so I see no reason not to attack them for these RAs and stop them from having their fights when I have to.

But I know, if I see some friendly and helpful people fighting, who even cleared the way for assassin quests, came and helped with sieges, carried wood when I tried to patch up a wall, I would stop with my cleric and to rezz if they need to.

And if GOA asks why I don't attack? "I never attack people unless I get attacked first, or it is a siege where it can't be helped. Cya". And if they don't attack the healer? They can say, they were low on health (too risky to attack). And if they ask why I haven't healed earlier: "I respect the wishes of my friends, and he asked me to wait with healing."

Won't stop to form a dueling circle (will move after the first fight to do my mission, unless some friend ask me to stay and duo), but will help and respect the people who respected me.

The problem is: The people who moan and whine about adds, and claim they should be left to duel are mostly the people I know as abusive people who never respected anyone...

8v8 an 1v1 isn't an even fight.

Say. If a full rejuv cleric (even solo PVE is hard with it, but when I have to heal important people in smaller raids the extra points in rejuv help much) who is in fully PVE template, low RR gets attacked by some high RR soloer that isn't a fair fight, but bullying and choosing a weaker target.

 

[Esselinithia]

Why solo on a rejuve cleric ? you hoping to heal someone to death or somthing

No.
I just hated RvR
But needed some more RAs with healing.
And scouting and assassin missions worked well, if some soloer or fg didn't think that the PVE people are the easy target.

Farming PVE people is just as bad as adding.

Most people who moan about adds are people who caused troubles for PVE and casual people. And many many adds I see are people who seen that if they can't be left alone to play the game, and have to add to get the basic RAs they will add on fights of people who made problems for them.

Why? Because they respect other players, so these troublemakers and their precious solo fights are the only viable targets.

Yes, many people don't moan for adds, and help PVEers, and only post when they feel hurt when people speak about 1v1 scene.

But people who want to have fun and might help PVEers, might team up with PVE folks to help them aren't the people who care for nothing except their "top spot" in 1v1 scene. (If they would understand they aren't the 1v1 people most of these posts are changes are about, it would be much easier).

 

[Thorwyn]

Wait a minute...

On one hand, you expect PvE people to be left alone when they´re PvE- ing in RvR to get their RAs and on the other hand, you claim that duelling people from other realms is harmful for the game and generally lame rp farming?

 

[Gahn]

Wait a minute...

On one hand, you expect PvE people to be left alone when they´re PvE- ing in RvR to get their RAs and on the other hand, you claim that duelling people from other realms is harmful for the game and generally lame rp farming?

He clearly got the wrong pill and keeps messing up every morning :/

 

[Esselinithia]

NO I am saying that people who solo and say they should be respected and left alone should know: It works only if it goes both way.

If they leave PVE people alone => PVE people will leave them alone.
If they farm PVE people => PVE people will have to team up and farm them and crash their PVE fights.

it is their choice, and they live with the consequences of their actions.

 

[Esselinithia]

He clearly got the wrong pill and keeps messing up every morning :/

Says Gahn, the guy "who never insults" others so should be respected, but sadly all his posts are flaming and insults.

If people like you leave because decisions of GOA I think it might be good time to think about returning to dyvet Hmmm. have to talk with a few friends about it.

 

[Thorwyn]

So by your argument, you´re elevating yourself to a higher instance, basically saying: leave me alone while I`m doing my RP FARMING, otherwise I´m gonna team up and spoil your fights. You´re not respecting their playstyle (as you have said before in your crusade against duelling), but you expect them to respect your playstyle, otherwise you´re ready to punish them. Both ways... like you said.. both ways.

 

[Gahn]

Says Gahn, the guy "who never insults" others so should be respected, but sadly all his posts are flaming and insults.

If people like you leave because decisions of GOA I think it might be good time to think about returning to dyvet Hmmm. have to talk with a few friends about it.

What i must think? It is u who is inconsistent in your arguments.
Either u are under some strange influence or, worse scenario, u really got no clue -.-
Yeh sure get back to Dyvet and inject your great Gaheris experience cause all that's left to fight are mobs, guards and Guard minded pcs, so u'd fit well.
Wts some clues ...