Change from ten grand?

[old.user4556]

So everyone is fussing about the road tax increases just now and fuel prices are pretty shit for everyone, diesel or not. Car change time is coming up for me, and I wasn't sure about a single super eco diesel (118d, I've bleeted about how good it is) or two cheap cars: one older, pre-2001 tax, big engine speed machine and a newer super cheap (like a Toyota Aygo or Citroen C1) car for going to Tesco or the train station.

... and then I got looking through Pistonheads' classified ads; fuck me there are a whole rack of mega cheap speed machines for well under ten grand - so even if it was old and needed £3k thrown at it, it still makes it a damn good buy.

Lets take a benchmark Joe Average family car that'll get shagged for tax:

Vehicle Details

£14,500 for a nearly new, bland, not fast, reasonably economical car.

And for under ten grand, lets look at what pre-2001 widowmaker you could have won...

BMW : BMW M3 CONVERTIBLE 3.0 LITRE - £4,599

Audi : Audi S6 4.2 V8 Tiptronic - Fully Loaded - £9,995

BMW : STUNNING*FULLY LOADED*BMW M5 IMMACULATE CONDITION - £9,995

Subaru : STI Type R 555 Ver3 - £5,600 (hard to find an unmolested scooby)

TVR : Speed 6 Cerbera - £9,750

Auto100.co.uk : XKR 4.0 SUPERCHARGED - £7,990

Lotus : 1999 Lotus Elise S1 - £8,750

Cridfords Porsche : Boxster 2.5 - £9,995

All of these £180 a year to tax.

These are only a few examples, but I could go on and on finding more; the used car market is awash with seriously good chunks of cheap fast cars , all taxed and MOT'd for a decent amount or had recent servicing. Of course, none of these would be your daily driver. But something like this might be:

Toyota : ToyotaAYGO C-charge exempt! May Deliver? 1700miles

Practically brand new, £35 to tax, 60+ mpg, £30 a corner for tyres, insurance for about £100 a year.

Fucking tempted, I tell you.

 

[Tom]

The sensible types will try and horrify you with tales of expensive repairs but generally sensible people have never bought a nice car like those above, so don't know what the hell they're on about.

I fancy one of these tbh, with lpg conversion:

Mercedes : 500 CL Coupe

But my next toy will be one of these again:

TVR : CHIMAERA 4.0 HC V8

 

[nath]

That speed 6 is miiighty prettttttyyyyy. BUY IT!

 

[old.user4556]

I don't have the balls to buy a TVR, the stories of engine rebuilds and huge servicing bills scare me.

That said, it would come out for a fun at the weekends only, so it might be doable. I'd be more likely to go for the M5, would be safer although nowhere near as fun.

 

[Wij]

For 10k I'm considering trading my ST170 in for a 1.4 Turbo Grande Punto 5-door brand new. Get 2 extra doors and tonnes of torque, great looks and won't cost much to trade up.

Decisions decisions.

(I'm replacing the old Rover with a new Focus Deisel Titanium for my family lugabout this w/e btw)

 

[Bodhi]

If I was looking for a weekend car that I didn't mind throwing some money at maintenence wise, I'd clearly end up with something Italian, such as

Alfa Romeo : Alfa GTV 3.0 V6 For Sale - rip the stereo out and listen to the engine

Fiat : Fiat Coupe LE FSH - i would still kill for one of these, in that spec. Will eat the Boxster you posted for breakfast and keep the M-cars honest.

Lancia : Lancia Integrale Evo I - do you feel lucky punk. Well do ya?

Rising Sun Imports : 1989 Lancia Thema 8.32 Ferrari! - would sir like a saloon with a prancing horse under the bonnet?

 

[DaGaffer]

If I was looking for a weekend car that I didn't mind throwing some money at maintenence wise, I'd clearly end up with something Italian, such as

Alfa Romeo : Alfa GTV 3.0 V6 For Sale - rip the stereo out and listen to the engine

Fiat : Fiat Coupe LE FSH - i would still kill for one of these, in that spec. Will eat the Boxster you posted for breakfast and keep the M-cars honest.

Lancia : Lancia Integrale Evo I - do you feel lucky punk. Well do ya?

Rising Sun Imports : 1989 Lancia Thema 8.32 Ferrari! - would sir like a saloon with a prancing horse under the bonnet?

Wow, torque-steer city (apart from the Integrale). I'd get the GTV personally, best looking, quick, fabulous engine sound. I had a 2.0 GTV and always wanted the V6.

 

[old.user4556]

An example of servicing on a 4.2 Cerbera:

June 03 New Gearbox £1010 miles 50k
Aug 05 New Clutch £1319 miles 55k
Feb 06 Diff O/haul £667 miles 58k
Aug 06 Engine rebuild £5840 miles 59k
Jug 07 New Clutch seals £400 miles 63k

So that's the thick end of £10,000 spent in 13,000 miles of use (never mind tyres, insurance and petrol) - granted that's spread over 4 years, but even still - £2500 per year on servicing.

It would be a very, very expensive toy and never a daily driver. As much as I want a v8 TVR, I can't do it

 

[Tom]

£10,000 over 4 years is what your average Audi A4 will lose in depreciation...

I think you picked a bad one there. There are many Tivs driving around without anything like those costs.

Mine was a bit expensive though

 

[old.user4556]

What sort of expenses Tom?

And what's the difference between the 4.2 and 4.5 V8s? and when did they stop using Rover derived units in favour of a TVR unit?

Infact, got a faq?

 

[Tom]

Ok, heres a list - its upside down so start at the bottom and read up.



Servicing/Repairs @ 72,500 miles. Tuesday 1st November 2005
12000 mile service at Ians. Replaced upper and lower UJs on the steering, new engine mounts, and Ian did some work on the loom to fix those fuel relays
£700

Tyres @ 71,000 miles. Tuesday 4th October 2005
Four new tyres, Michelin Exalto Pilot. Handling much improved, and mucho stickyness
£424

Servicing/Repairs @ 71,000 miles. Saturday 1st October 2005
New ignition leads to fix a misfire. Lucas variety, supplied and fitted by Ian in Middlewich
£50

@ 69,000 miles. Monday 12th September 2005
business miles reclaimed feb - sept, delete £1358.88 from costs
Servicing/Repairs @ 69,250 miles. Friday 9th September 2005
Both front wheels balanced, one was 55g out.
£15

Servicing/Repairs @ 69,000 miles. Monday 5th September 2005
New manifold gaskets both sides, and new washers/bolts

Never fitted, engine didn't need them.
£40

Servicing/Repairs @ 67,000 miles. Monday 1st August 2005
2 new fuel relays for passenger footwell
£12

Minor Breakdown @ 66,000 miles. Monday 25th July 2005
Breakdown on the M6, faulty fuel relays, fuel regulator and coil. Replaced both, and new filters, oil change, and put a new starter motor on for good measure.
£513

Servicing/Repairs @ 66,000 miles. Friday 1st July 2005
New rear shock absorbers, AVO variety, including new springs - old shocks were leaking. Fitted myself.
£250

Servicing/Repairs @ 66,000 miles. Tuesday 28th June 2005
66000 mile service at Middlewich MOT station.
£250

Servicing/Repairs @ 64,000 miles. Wednesday 25th May 2005
Replaced the driver's side bit of rubber on the door (got the passenger side while I was at it) Old bit fell off somewhere.
£8

Servicing/Repairs @ 62,500 miles. Wednesday 20th April 2005
Replaced both door mirrors with Aspheric blue mirrors (courtesy of Big Al) for nothing. Old mirror fell out, and was fixed badly anyway.
Servicing/Repairs @ 62,000 miles. Tuesday 5th April 2005
New rear window, old one had rotten stitching. Fitted by Martrim of Cheshire, quality outfit.
£188

Servicing/Repairs @ 61,500 miles. Thursday 31st March 2005
Nice new shiny Alternator fitted by Christopher Neil, and replaced an indicator repeater that was falling out.
£190

Upgrades @ 61,500 miles. Thursday 24th March 2005
Locking Wheel nuts
£29

Servicing/Repairs @ 61,500 miles. Wednesday 23rd March 2005
Autoglym shampoo, polish, leather cleaner, leather care
£20

Upgrades @ 61,000 miles. Monday 21st March 2005
Alpine active sub
£127

Upgrades @ 61,000 miles. Sunday 20th March 2005
Added Modwise Aerial amp, brighter lights kit, and starter motor shield.
£70

Upgrades @ 60,000 miles. Friday 25th February 2005
Sony headunit and fitting
£260

 

[Tom]

4.3V8s were the older variety IIRC. There are a few, including HC units, but basically you have 4.0, 4.5, 5.0. The 4.3s and 4.0HCs are usually on the older cars.

The AJP-V8s (4.2 IIRC) were in the Cerbs when they came out, along with the speed six units. Tuscans, Tamoras, Saggys, things like that, IIRC they all use the Speed 6 engine. They stopped using the RV8 when they stopped making the Griffiths and Chimaeras.

The speed 6s and the AJP-V8s the ones you need to watch especially things like cam followers which were often described as 'chocolate' . The Rover V8s are old engines but easy to look after, with parts-a-plenty.

Basically if you're thinking of buying a Cerb as a weekend car then fine, just budget a couple of grand a year for maintenance. If you're thinking of using it as a commuter car - well, really, my advice is don't. Buy a cheap shitter for the commute, and keep the Cerb for the weekends. 6000 mile service intervals aren't cheap.

 

[old.user4556]

So going for a Rover V8 is a wise move? An old Chim over a Cerb?

 

[Tom]

Much cheaper to live with. Bear in mind that I was a bit unlucky, many people have Chims or Griffs and spend not a penny on them.

Really you need to ask in the TVR section of PH, but let me tell you that nothing is quite like driving an RV8 TVR. Brutal and special, and drop dead fast. 0-60 in under 5 seconds for £7000+ isn't to be sniffed at. Also don't forget, no airbag, no ABS, no traction, no side impact protection, no rollover bars (can be added though). In front/rear shunts though they are extremely safe.

Basically if you're going backwards through a hedge, its your fault - you can't blame the car Makes you a better driver IMO.

4.0 Chim on the motorway with the roof up will just manage 30mpg. But you won't get that in day to day driving, because you'll be blowing the arse off it every time you drive it

 

[DaGaffer]

Much cheaper to live with. Bear in mind that I was a bit unlucky, many people have Chims or Griffs and spend not a penny on them.

Many? Really? Some...maybe. A few. A handful. It's none really isn't it?

 

[old.user4556]

Yeah, I'd still be nervous. I think i'd need to find one that had everything done do it before I parted with cash to have some peace of mind. If it was a fast, older, cheap convertible I was looking for, I'm thinking i'd perhaps go back to one of these:

BMW : Superb M Roadster with Factory Hardtop

I reckon that could be negotiated down to £10k, but it does look in mint condition with the added hardtop extra. Plus it's a beemer . Ok it's not a TVR, but it'll be nearly as quick and just as hardcore.

 

[ECA]

urgh, that website is evil and makes me want to spend like a months money on a car.

 

[Tom]

Many? Really? Some...maybe. A few. A handful. It's none really isn't it?

No it isn't actually. Always amazes me how people with little (I presume) or no knowledge of a marque suddenly become experts.

 

[old.user4556]

Thing is Tom, someone like me who would be a first time TVR buyer has to recognise the overwhelming evidence of regular maintenance and large servicing bills on these cars. I'm not saying they're unreliable, they just need constant TLC.

M powered beemers are not really much better, needing at least £700 a year / 10000 miles alone, never mind discs/pads, tyres and everything else due in that service.

The bloke I bought my M roadster put it through a "minor" service (inspection 1) and it cost him £800 at a specialist. That would have been easily double at a main dealer.

 

[ECA]

I'm a total nit, what do you guys think would be a fun/good looking car for like £4-10k ( can be 2 seater or 4 dont care ) that wouldnt cost too much maintenance wise?

 

[DaGaffer]

No it isn't actually. Always amazes me how people with little (I presume) or no knowledge of a marque suddenly become experts.

I was joking, misery guts. Having said that, in the small sample pool of TVR owners I've known (3), they've all had reliabity issues (the snapped propshaft was my favourite) and I have known a good few motoring journalists over the years, and not one would spend their own money on a TVR.

 

[Tom]

I'm a total nit, what do you guys think would be a fun/good looking car for like £4-10k ( can be 2 seater or 4 dont care ) that wouldnt cost too much maintenance wise?

MX5 without question.

 

[ECA]

Am I a huge gay for liking the hardtops more than the softops/convertables?

 

[Tom]

Thing is Tom, someone like me who would be a first time TVR buyer has to recognise the overwhelming evidence of regular maintenance and large servicing bills on these cars. I'm not saying they're unreliable, they just need constant TLC.

Its all part of owning a car like that though. People need to recognise that TVR weren't building one hundred thousand cars per year on an automated line with an R&D section spending millions per year - it was a relatively small concern in Blackpool, a bunch of blokes hand-building cars with a steel chassis and GRP bodywork.

A Cerbera isn't a cheap prospect - but then again theres little below £100k that could compete on outright performance and style.

Things are a little different now but when the Chimaera and Griffiths (and the Cerb) were in their prime, there was nothing that could compete for the price - nothing.

TVRs undoing IMO was down to cars like the Boxster, S2000, Z3, etc. Those cars didn't exist when people were buying Chimaeras for £35k and killing themselves with their lack of driving skill

 

[Tom]

Am I a huge gay for liking the hardtops more than the softops/convertables?

People who slate MX-5s and convertibles generally drive Daewoos and Picassos.

 

[old.user4556]

MX5 without question.

I'll second that.

Drove one, loved it; absolutely loved it. It won't win drag races, but that's not what it's about.

 

[old.user4556]

Its all part of owning a car like that though. People need to recognise that TVR weren't building one hundred thousand cars per year on an automated line with an R&D section spending millions per year - it was a relatively small concern in Blackpool, a bunch of blokes hand-building cars with a steel chassis and GRP bodywork.

A Cerbera isn't a cheap prospect - but then again theres little below £100k that could compete on outright performance and style.

Absolutely, and I think people forget Cerbs aren't competing with £45k Boxsters, but £145k lambos and the running costs should probably be compared as such.

Maybe I should adopt the attitude that a £10k Cerb, is actually a £20k Cerb; saving a pot of cash for keeping the wheels turning.

 

[ECA]

I meant the hardtop MX5

Although the black/blue/green softtops look ok.


eg

Mazda : MX-% 1.6i (W reg)

is there a sexier MX5 out there? I think not!

 

[old.user4556]

You can get a hardtop for it ECA.

Mazda : MK1 MX5 1.8i UK car with Hard-Top

Edit: spend another £3k on a V8 conversion

 

[ECA]

Any other similar options?

Also really I never want to have to get it in the garage beyond mileage servicing because I'm a total car fish.