baah, I think caster dmg and melee dmg are pretty ok as it these day, atm you can run both tank/mix/caster group successful. It ain't as it was before when it was all the way tank or all the way casters to actually be able to kill something.
Deepflame said:But their pets don't intercept if I'm not mistaken.
Deepflame said:But their pets don't intercept if I'm not mistaken.
Bubble said:got a good one
Nerf Lifetap to only gain something like 25% of damage (All 3 realms effected)
Nerf Pet Intercept (Midgard effected)
Nerf Brittle Guards to only allow 1 out at a time (all Realms effected)
Nerf Stun proc on pets (All 3 realms effected)
Nerf Charge,Det 5 (to allow Crowdcontrollers a small chance to do there job)
I agree givf banelords on a 1 min timer !remi said:dont agree on last one, problem is the banelord abilities if you ask me.. ;p
Puppet said:* 10% resist piercing (= straight up 10% more damage on enemies in SC)
* 9% more magic-damage (= straight up 9% more damage)
* 10% more cast-speed (= straight up 10% more DPS)
* 10% more range (= abit hard to factor this in)
* 25 more DEX
* 25 more INT
Puppet said:It's not unreasonable to say a TOA'ed caster has 35-40% more DPS then an unTOA'ed caster. Not to mention often more AF, brittleguards and bodyguarded. MOC is now more expensive, 'only' 75% damage (which is still more then pre-TOA MOC if you factor in above 'bonusses') but on a 10 mins timer and twice the duration.
Puppet said:Tanks still have a swing-cap of 1.5 second, and haste reduces the styled-component, so it cant be added up as easily as with casters. People mentioning Banelord and Charge, but those are not available to all classes, in Hib there's 2 classes with BL and Charge, Mid and Alb have 1 class with it. Hardly a viable counter, and just not relevant when you're one of the poor hybrids who get none (Thanes, Valks, VW, Friar, Paladin, Warden) or one of the heavy tanks.
Puppet said:It helps up your unstyled-damage. Damage of a style is unstyled-damage + style-bonus, so yes it helps your styled-damage aswell.
Vilje said:* Melee Damage
* Style damage
* Melee speed
* 25 more (insert the stat(s) your weapon is based on)
* Add +to cap on stats needed which is individual.
* Hits
Its probably not unreasonable to say that also ToA'ed tanks has 35-40% more DPS than an unToA'ed tank.
Corran said:if you got more then around +10af in your SC you most likely gimped somewhere else. And such small amount of af dont make alot of difference really
Puppet said:Under assumption they are balanced without those, then the improvements with TOA would been fair.. However, your assumption a light-tank has gained 35-40% damage is simply not true.
Its more like 22-28% damage, mostly as result that the swing-speed is hardcapped at 1.5 seconds and haste lowers your style-bonus, so a 20% haste increase doesnt give a straight up 20% dps increase.
Not to mention the anti-melee counters are much more widely spread then the anti-caster counters. And dont forget some really silly stuff that an intercept by a Brittle doesnt interrupt the caster. Neither does a SM-pet intercept. Stuff like a Brittle intercept against a 2H tank gives a caster quite easily 2, in some rare cases 3 free nukerounds without interruption. That's, from 1 brittles, 1500 HP gone from that tank in your scenario nuking for 495.
Vilje said:The scenery you discribe above is the absolute worst possible for a heavy-tank 1on1 with a sm. It does not oftenly happen exactly that way, and if it does -Well, run-through and strafe is happily used tactics. You make it seem like every time a heavy tank meets a sm, the sm will have 4 brittle guards and the sm pet will intercept like mad. It wont. What would you give the sm to compenstate for the loss of the sm-pets intercept? I then think especially of those who spec the now "not so popular" suppression line, and for dark-users aswell. As for getting 3 nukes out of a brittle guard, I think that has never happened to me. More like 1 and rarely 2 (run-through). The advantages and disadvantages of the different classes over other classes, and their abilities, creates the balance in the bigger picture.
Sorry for being off-topic
Azathrim said:Actually, a heavy tank could just shield wipe to clear any brittle guards any caster may have. That's one melee hit to clear all guards as well as attack the caster.
Vilje said:Not sure what you mean by that the anti-melee counters is more widely spread than the anti-caster ones. But I for one think its pretty damn even.
Tuorin said:1 they have to be in your frontal arc so strafer can move them out of that and 2 you must target the brittles. 3 you must be alive by that point vs 3 caster groups.
Puppet said:Its not even close to equal, to avoid magic-damage:
* Empty Mind
* Avoidance of Magic
* Resist-buffs
* Bainshee Magic Abla
* Fanatism
That's about it.
For melee: Block, Evade, Parry, Intercept, Bodyguard, Grapple, Brittleguard, self-BT, PBT, mincer abla, physical defense, Absorb-buffs (BD, Ani, Necro), alchemy ablatives, and Im sure if I think abit longer I can think of a few others.
That's not 'close to the same'
Puppet said:Its not even close to equal, to avoid magic-damage:
* Empty Mind
* Avoidance of Magic
* Resist-buffs
* Bainshee Magic Abla
* Fanatism
That's about it.
For melee: Block, Evade, Parry, Intercept, Bodyguard, Grapple, Brittleguard, self-BT, PBT, mincer abla, physical defense, Absorb-buffs (BD, Ani, Necro), alchemy ablatives, and Im sure if I think abit longer I can think of a few others.
That's not 'close to the same'
noaim said:How about interrupts, zone of unmana, demoralization, bedazzling aura, heretic RR5? Interrupts alone are enough to avoid magic damage though if you dont get outplayed by better opponents or are talking about 1 vs 1 fights? And before you whine about moc, try killing something with moc up when you get zou+demo on you.
Bubble said:Yes because i love it when my Sorc Blocks 5 times in a row etc.
I'll not bother repeating myself anymore
Puppet said:Heretic RR5 RA was listed. Bedazzling Aura I counter with BOF. ZoU and Demo well all nice but lets include STR-debuff, DEX-debuff, STR/CON-debuff, DEX/QUI-debuff and ASD then aswell ? Actually pretty sure red DEX/QUI-debuff + red ASD is like ZoU for a tank, except it doesnt have a 5 mins timer :/ Demoralization affects melee aswell.
Im pretty sure a SM can kill a tank without MOC and ZoU+Demo on him with just pressing ML9 Summoning Mastery. Might need a quickcast LT to make sure u survive, but doubt it :S
Puppet said:I give you a 90% immunity to melee just because you're a sorc then.. Oh wait u already have that oO
Puppet said:For melee: Block, Evade, Parry, Intercept, Bodyguard, Grapple, Brittleguard, self-BT, PBT, mincer abla, physical defense, Absorb-buffs (BD, Ani, Necro), alchemy ablatives, and Im sure if I think abit longer I can think of a few others.
That's not 'close to the same'
Tuorin said:Tbh this is kinda funny. The only sm a heavy tank hits are those that use their pets to hit something away from them. Rarely if ever do you get a hit through sm intercept as a heavy tank. I can recall last week for the first time in recent memory getting slam into a sm with his pet there and it took me 5 successive slams on a target also being hit by a bm to hit the sm. i was the first one to hit him, everything went into pet. The reason why it was slam was that the sm mocced lafjtapped and started killing 2-3 people standing there without a bg screwing entire group. This sm was rr10 and had a cohort of brittles which were killed by BM.
I'll post some logs from events with sms in game when I have them, thats if can get group in first place (for the reasons above ^^plus lack of banelord)
Any changes to heavy tanks are a given, go read the goa feedback form and see actually how many people asked for alterations. Whether its right or wrong, dunno, it's only 1.81C.
Azathrim said:While we have puppet whining his head off, think of this:
A caster is weaker to another caster, than a tank is to another tank.
Bubble said:Yeah its really great!
While the Zerker is meleeing me for 50 instread of 400 for a few seconds, i can't do FA while this is happening because SoI and MoC don't work together due to Stealther Whines. So i have a single quickcast that i can use to mez him for 5 seconds(if he isn't crowd control immune via charge) or lifetap for 150ish after demo. When its over i can switch on MoC3 and lifetap for 120ish instead every 2.5 seconds(assuming hes not using run-through) and while hes Meleeing me for 400+ every 2 seconds (assuming no Banespike is used) I could always kite him and wait for Prevent Flight to proc, then he at least gets to use uber behind style procs