bwra3l : cpma or ra3??

[old.unc]

Theres no point in myself continuing the arguement and tbh im more than happy for ppl to have their own opinions but feel that a few who ive spoke to (not on the forum) will say ra3 is better than cpma and then ask what cpma is. People need to experience cpm but in the form it will be used in leagues. This is without certain features as promode enabled (which i feel would be a v.positive step still).

I do like ra3 but the difference in quality between it and cpm in as far as i can see every department means it remains in my eyes the best choice as far as leagues go. As a little run down of those differences....

Cheat Protection: No one said that ppl cant find ways to cheat in cpm but it is better than ra3 and with it being updated regularly this will make it harder for people to cheat. ra3 is not being updated at all as things stand with crt going awol.

Admin Options: Cpm offers a far more extensive list of options for the admins to use. Also anyone who has ever tried to admin in ra3 will know what a frustrating experience it is with bugs still present in things such as spectating individuals.

Netcode: As far as i can tell my connection is far more stable in cpm even when ppl are spamming pg at me ra3 on the other hand ceases to be playable when lg/pg fire is anywhere near me. The fact isdn connections seem better with cpm means it wouldnt be div1 clans wantin it as the majority now field almost exclusively all bb teams.

More like dm/ctf: Some people have highlighted this as a problem. I can see nothing but positive from this, new people playing and v.likely for a more competitive/talented community to grow. I have played a lot of dm with clans but my main game was ra3 and so know the differences in both style of play and level of skill of both mods.

I could add more to the post but ive said all thats needed in other posts.



unc

 

[Jintao]

Well said unc.

I'd go with CPMA just for the cheat protection alone. I still don't understand why anyone would want to support RA3 if the people who make it don't give a toss about the players.

I said this before but i'll say it again, what would be the problem with BW using CPMA for at least 1 season to see how it goes? After all its only 11 weeks which flies by.

 

[old.A3GiR]

btw the clanbase spring cup 2002 will use ra3 mod..

84 clans..more bwra3l !
http://zp.savageclans.com/~ra3/ra3temp.html

 

[old.unc]

As with many things the fact something happens doesnt necessarily make it right its undoubted ra3 has a large following but i reckon with time that cpm replacing it will improve its status and the talent within.

tbh we can all sit here and argue the reasons for each for weeks/months etc but some more input from other ppl would be helpful so that it really is a decision made on the behalf the community. Go spread the word about the thread and the discussion will begin to mean something more. btw that doesnt mean going lookin for ppl who support ur point and then telling em to come here




unc

 

[old.A3GiR]

mebbe we should make a vote :

Thefixer could mail all the clans competiting and ask them :
-RA3 only ?
-CPMA only ?
-both are the same


it would be 1 vote per clan..after that we ll have a better idea of what ppl want..

 

[old.Smash]

I like RA3

Eggs is eggs, and RA3 is RA3, CPMA isn't

Weren't broke, didn't need fixing, at least, the things they addressed didn't anyways.

Amendment:

A3GiR : Good idea

 

[Jintao]

You're right it don't need fixing but it sure as hell needs improving.

 

[old.unc]

the admin facilities offered by ra3 have always needed fixing, issues such as admins havin difficulty spectating ppl playin and then havin floating-view control fked up due to a bug in ra3 have been well known for some time. However there is fk all to suggest that we are ever gonna see this changed, crt promised it but afaik hes dissapeared


unc

 

[old.Smash]

It retrospect, ye I spose the admin side did need addressing... , aint done much on the admin side, so I overlooked it I 'spose, but I prefer RA3 movement to CPMA's, and playing the game is what it's about.

 

[old.unc]

with some time spent practicing cpm ur movement will be significantly improved from what ive seen, even more so if promode settings ever get enabled for ra3 cpm servers. Personally i feel even a slight change to how ra3 is played would be refreshing to most people and breath new life into the community.

unc

 

[old.tophy]

pow

I vote RA3 ...

CPMA is a really good mod but it is not we are used to play (RA3) ....

I do not see what is the problem with RA3 ... Bot are also on CPMA.

I like RA3 Physics and weapons, OSP/CPMA is just diferent and I don't see why we all have to change.

But anyway if all the leagues changes it is OK.

But the biggest RA3 league will remain to RA3 (CLanbase).

My 2.3 cents

 

[Sar]

RA3 is fucking balls now. It's so bloody slow, unfeatured, unconfigurable on both the admins and players ends.

CRT patch it?

I think everyone knows how I feel about that: He won't. He's been asked by members of the community both here and in the US if he's going to continue to develop it and all have been met with stony silence. Next month will be 1 entire YEAR for christs sake, since RA3 was last patched. The code running on RA3 servers atm was built for 1.27 servers. Since then id have made fundemental changes to the network code, chenges to the clientside options etc, and RA3 as a result feels broken. It's sluggish and feels like I'm back playing Q2 again. I am also of the opinion that physics, damage calculation and splash damage are all broken to some degree in RA3 as well.

At least CPMA is being worked on and updated regularly, has superb options for players and admins, has better netcode (I've never ever been a victim of the "dodgy rail" syndrome) and just feels better.

I know several large clans have said they will not be entering any league that continues to use RA3 in preference to a clearly superior mod, and I can't blame them.

Why stick with something that is clearly broken? Tradition? Get out of it! CPMA far exceeds RA3 as a mod in every conceivable way, and as such should be used.

 

[old.unc]

/me nods

 

[Sar]

Oh, and CRT is off working on XBox projects now.

 

[old.cheef]

Re: pow

Originally posted by tophy
I vote RA3 ...

CPMA is a really good mod but it is not we are used to play (RA3) ....

I do not see what is the problem with RA3 ... Bot are also on CPMA.

I like RA3 Physics and weapons, OSP/CPMA is just diferent and I don't see why we all have to change.

But anyway if all the leagues changes it is OK.

But the biggest RA3 league will remain to RA3 (CLanbase).

My 2.3 cents

Can you see our point? This isn't about which mod is 'better', because we know that cpma is superior with it's functionality. In my (and obviously Toph's above) opinion this isn't about which mod can beat the other in a bells and whistles race.

The Head Admin of the SRA3L spoke to me yesterday, just asking what's going on here with the leagues because he too needs to make a decision about cpma. It seems even there they're split 50/50 about in which direction to turn, but believes the best solution would be to have both mods played, and is polling admins on the option of running ra3 and also a cpma league. 50% of either community is a large chunk to 'lose' (if that's the right word), but kinda backs up what I've been mentioning in that cpma should be an alternative and not a replacement.

kie

 

[old.unc]

Right so weve established cpm to be the better mod. imo the differences are so small between the two that even a casual player could be using cpm without problem at the same level within 2-3 weeks of practice. The differences in physics if anything are there to be taken advantage off and shouldnt be seen as turn offs, if it ever came to promode settings being used the level of individual skill which can be reached is far greater imo.

Im more than concerned that a large number of those supporting the idea of stickin with ra3 over cpm havent actually played it to any extent. Those who havent will usually come out saying the usual "physics are different/rails go thru ppl" etc etc but havent played it. Some people are arguing these differences so much that if u werent sure what the alternative was, it could be Unreal and Counterstrike. Its not.

I like ra3 as ive stated before, but continuing to use it when another mod is available as a replacement, which exceeds it in every department is something i cant go along with. The community is dwindling atm and although this may be seen as the wrong path to take maybe its the one needed to breath new life back into ra3.


unc

 

[old.cheef]

Originally posted by unc
The community is dwindling atm and although this may be seen as the wrong path to take maybe its the one needed to breath new life back into ra3.

Where is it dwindling? How many clans would leave the BWRA3L if it stuck with the mod it was setup for? 3? 4?

How many clans have signed up to the ClanBase Spring cup? Was well over 80, which doen't seem like the RA3 community needs any breathing imo, just my 2 cents.

 

[old.unc]

Everyone is entitled to their opinion and it is my opinion that the ra3 community has been in slow decline for some time. In terms of strong UK clans i feel atm we are going thru a time in which maybe a few are falling from the high level they were once at and with no signs of clans appearing to take over. There are still numerous large eu clans doin well but in general itjust doesnt appear as strong from where im sitting. Sure 80 clans in cb even across europe is a lot and i dont deny that. I do feel tho that the quality isnt what it was and as ive mentioned some of the bigger names are going thru hard times. I refuse however to name specific clans who i feel are having a hard time as that would be wrong.

I feel that the loss of certain members of the community who dislike ra3 for the state the mod is in (regarding how much its been updated and feel as compared to osp etc) is something which needs to be addressed. No one has questioned the idea of the introduction of cpma and possibly even promode settings as allowing for greater level of skill of individuals already in the community in bringing in talent from tdm clans. This would have a huge positive impact on the scene.

These are my opinions and i stick by them, to think everyone would agree with them would be a ridiculous assumption to make and therefore i welcome any comments on the points made.

Back to the original point about cpm over ra3. We seem in agreement that cpm is overall a better mod than ra3. Surely a few weeks of getting used to it isnt asking much.

However my next point would be that we cant afford to mess around on this one, both mods running at the same time will lead to a decrease in the competition of both leagues and is the wrong choice imo. What we need is a decision to be made and people to follow, sure a few people will sob and go into hysterics over what at the end of the day is a game (maybe losing these people wouldnt be so bad? ) but at least we can say this is what we are playing lets go practice it.

unc

 

[old.MasterPlan]

hmm :/

tbh, CPMA RA3 is good, so is RA3, but we need to come up with a solution to this problem, cos it's getting rather tedious having to re-learn it every time we have a cpm game, and then having a game of ra3 and over\under predicting because of the change between the two, i'm good(?) at ra3, but i could be good at cpma ra3 if i didnt have to keep changing between the two, and yes, the rail is different, and mid-air rox are stupidly easy to hit, as easy as mid air rails, which i hate cos it dont make me feel special when i hit a really juicy mid-air, and CPM shaft is just too "good", it's like lan, which will take some getting used to because i always suck on lan

but tbh, i dont give a shit, i just need fix\someone to make up their mind and either change the league, keep it the same, or even all get nekkid and have some nekkid fun \o/

//MP

(...i go for option 3 btw)

 

[old.Kapiter]

damn

How come that cheef was highly pro-cpma in jolt and turn back his mind to RA3 ?

I dont see any positive argument to keep RA3 except the boring "keep it because we dont want to change". Oh well. what are you doing in Q3, why didn't you stay in QW or Doom2 ?

As stated by unc, many players left RA3 because they are unhappy with its non-OSP sensations and the weak netcode compared to the recent improvments supplied by OSP/CPMA. And I will not list the bunch of features that modern mods got and not RA3. Like skinz, enemycolor, real competion mode (allowing 4vs5), coach mode (soon available in cpma), usefull bind variables etc...

My personnal taste would be definitively OSP-Arena. but there are no support for multiarena, which is a shame :/

Arguing that cpma suxx because the netcode is too good allowing non-slpb to shaft like in lan is just PATHETIC, forgive me. Are you then telling that some clans just want to keep their ping-ownage ? Sounds weird.

"CPMA is not RA3". Come on. 3 days and you are get used to it, especially people playing also on OSP TDM/CTF, which is a large majority. I like RA3 for its concept, not for its physics.

Anyway. bring BWRA3L back quickly whatever its support.

btw cheef your argument with CB is useless. of course people will come in BWRA3L if it keep ra3. But do you really think that people will not come if it goes in cpma ? come on. Will be the same. and perhaps attract more people imho.

 

[Sar]

Re: damn

Originally posted by Kapiter
I like RA3 for its concept, not for its physics.

Spot on Kap, same here.



I can't think of a single logical reason to stick with RA3 other than tradition, which isn't a reason at all. It's an excuse.

 

[old.[!.marteee!]]

"I think the point that isn't really being understood is that I for one DO like cpma, in it's own entirity; but is not RA3 and shouldn't replace RA3.

They are essentially completely different mods, just running the same maps."


It annoys me somewhat to see this kind of drivel again from a well respected member of the ra3 community.

ra3 is NOT a game - neither is CPMA. The game is Quake 3: Arena - the only thing that makes "rocket arena" is:

* full ammo with all weaps
* set maps i.e ra3xxxx...
* 5v5
* full armour from the offset

........ and CPMA models this PERFECTLY well. So why stick with ra3 over cpma? Well I cant think of ONE good reason - and this "its a different game" b0llocks is certianly not one either. Jolt and Savage have moved/are moving to it and its been warmly recieved - games are much more fast paced and theres VERY LITTLE of the "ooooooh he must be using a wallhack/bot" shite that PLAGUES bwra3l

On the flip side - why switch to cpma? well theres NO reason not to and plenty of reasons to do so. First and foremost - how come tdm, duel and ctf all adopted OSP rather than writing a new "mod"? Also using osp/cpma means that players who partake in more than one of these (i.e the ones who arent so limited in skill and linear that they can adapt to slightly new things) dont have to switch between enviroments as everythign is essentially the same - enemy models/colours etc. Also cpma offers much improved textual team comms for those who dont have the option of battlecom or roger wilco (eg multi-national clans)

My last point will be re: the weapons which warchild was harping on about:

C0DSHITE!!!

........its RA3 that has things wrong and NOT cpma - ra3 is the only mod where the LG is shite and the rail thing is all in your head cause youre the only person ive ever heard saying that
The only good idea from the non-cpma'ers is the voting - allow each clan a single vote - and winner gets it

Although i suspect this will swing it the way of ra3 cause the shear amount of cheating thats possible in ra3 is a joke - cpma isnt full proof either - but it is updated so regularly that the cheating scummers have their work cut out to keep exploiting holes - how old is the "latest" version of ra3? (which also looks pretty damn likely to be the last since the author is working on new and frankly much more appealing projects)

A lot of clans have gone "cpma only" - which speaks volumes for me - how many have gone "ra3 only"? - tbh - i cant think of any - although no doubt some wiseguys will reply saying "we are ra3 only" - fact is - no one announced it before now so they cant feel that strongly about it


Also look at the sign up for savage and jolt? the VAST majority of the big guns are signed up (ourselves, defiance, xe, msr, alpha, a3, fury, msr, x3 and oddly enough mkc and induce ) - and what mod is it?

CPMA =)

mart

 

[old.[!.marteee!]]

re: Sar's last post

EXACTLY!

theres NOT ONE THING it offers that cpma doesnt - other than short falls and being exposed to cheating

so fcuk tradition and lets get with the times and develop our play such that tdmers and the likes cant call us lamers

 

[old.[!.marteee!]]

re: the clanbase sign up

Yeah was very impressive - but how many UK teams signed up? was 5 at a guess - which is pretty fucking pathetic

......... how many more wouldve been there if it was CPMA?

And why didnt Clan X - one of clanbase ra3's most famous clans (certainly in the UK) - sign up this time around?

Answer: cause ra3 chews and they wont play it - good on em - and all th other clans who have followed/are going to follow suit

RA3 is old hat, out of date and out of favour - just look at the clip of the ra3 scene in the UK - CPMA will breath new life into a dying dog - lets embrace it rather than argue the toss for months.

How many TDM/CTF players WONT play ra3 cause its different? TDM/CTF clans could easily add ra3 to their list and the community would explode

....... of course borged clans like induce *cough* would lose out here cause they leech all the top tdmers blokey, kilem, req etc =))

 

[Sar]

Yer, as I said earlier IMO RA3 is broken now. I've spawned multiple times in a 100/100 arena, railed someone twice in succession, and the bugger's still alive. HOW? They should be dead the split second the second rail connects. Mind you they are only left with 1 or 2 health, but many times that's all the difference between winning and losing a round.

So either cheating is occurring or RA3 itself is bust: with the code being so out of date it's likely to be a bit of both. So what if Clanbase are sticking with RA3 - how much longer is that likely to be the case?

As I said before, gameplay in RA3 is now very very sluggish, and the physics in the mod itself are completely fuxored. Moving about in RA3 is like wading through treacle, whereas CPMA feels fast and fluid, like Q3 should.

In 39 days from now it will be the first anniversary of the current version of RA3.

RA3 = buggy & lackadaisical (languid)
CPMA = Fast & skillful

I thought the reason we played this was the application of skill and having fun, not upholding tradition? Or showing blind loyalty to a mod author who clearly doesn't give a fuck?

 

[old.unc]

1 clan = 1 vote. Impossible to do imo as i could pick ppl from a3 and get totally different responses to the question of which to play. I can see the view of those supporting ra3 but urge the majority to play cpm for a decent stretch of time and then comment.

IF ra3 does get updated the changes made to bring it up to date with various q3 patches its gonna feel a hell of a lot like cpm. Highly unlikely this is gonna happen and ye if we stick with ra3 i can live with it but tbh the advantages of switching to cpm seem too great to miss out on.

unc

 

[old.sant]

Does anyone know when the next season is gonna start at all?

 

[old.unc]

Fix has a lot on in real life atm. However league will start up again. Whether its cpm or ra3 thats gonna be used however i dont know

unc

 

[old.Smash]

As far as I can see, there's absolutely no argument for keeping RA3 over CPMA, that's been made clear.

Onwards and upwards.

However, I think it still has to be called the bwra3l, cos bwcpmaura3ml is a bit long winded. (BarrysWorld CPMA Using Rocket Arena 3 Maps League)

 

[old.Swelt]

I don't know that I have a right to post here, as I am clearly biased (promode owns me), but here's my 2c anyway. I write as an individual and not as a representative of X.

The LG argument seems to me to be a total non-starter. Even vQ3 has CPM truelightning code - if RA3 were updated to 1.31 codebase it would have it without question. LG was intended by iD to be as effective as it is in CPM - it's just that online it was originally shite (without fekkin around with mad FOVs and zoom - how lame is that?!)

The "RA3 community wants RA3, the TDM/CTF community can go back to OSP" idea? WTF? Quake 3 IS in decline, has been for some time. Making the RA3 scene more insular than it already is will *not* help the long term life of the competitive arena.

"RA3 is not broke, why fix it"? Er? I'd like to be the blue team on RA3MAP4 please, so that unless you've hacked your graphics config to shit (or better still, hacked your skins) you have a distinct advantage. In the UK RA3 team, it was not uncommon to hear people (nameless) say "quick, join blue" or whatever as we joined the server... and let's be honest you know you've thought the same yourself. I'm not even going to mention CHEATING or ADMIN FUNCTIONS, cause let's face it, it's nice when you get the POV of an enemy player when you die in competition mode - gives you a chance to feed some info back to your team over RW, particularly if you can see all around them with your wallhacks. *sic*

"The physics are different". Yes - slightly, but not significantly. This is cos RA3 broke vQ3 physics and because CPMA/OSP have slightly 'improved' physics. Because of this, CPMA feels doubly different to an RA3 player than it would to the mythical baseq3 player. Learn it. Perhaps discover that there are other fun game mods out there that you can easily transfer skills to. RA players are often good at CTF you know... but until you learn to move in OSP you'll be at a disadvantage. (and btw lol at the number of RA3 players who can't strafe jump).

"Clanbase is using RA3" / "There are no decent public CPMA servers". Based on the feedback I've received from some people at CB, I think you are looking at this the wrong way. ClanBase is not in a position to lead trends like this. Due to it's very nature, ClanBase relies on other people's servers for matches. Looking at a server browser list shows a huge chunk of CPMA servers in Germany, and then the odd one or two scattered across the rest of europe. Why so many in Germany? BECAUSE THEIR LEAGUES USE IT. People WILL NOT CHANGE until there is a reason to do so. BWRA3L is one of the largest leagues in Europe, involving clans from the UK and Western EU. If leagues change, clans demand servers. If clans demand servers, the general populace move with them. Of course there will always be people that prefer RA3. There are still people that prefer RA2, but play in RA3 leagues for the competition.


OK - I've exceeded my 2 cents. Going off topic slightly, if anyone wants to contribute news on the CPMA.RA3 scene in the UK (and possibly start some comment flame wars) then I need some writers/columnists on www.cpma.org.uk. Cheers!