bwra3l : cpma or ra3??

[old.A3GiR]

with the new release of cpma
which no longer supports VQ3 , i wondered what mod will BW use for the ra3 league..
lots of ppl are for cpma..but just check the servers on gamespy :
cpma/ra3 servers are nearly always empty.. where the "simple ra3" server are always full (of noobs ? )
im not against cpma,i just think that there is no point in switching ra3 to cpma if only some clans follow the move; it should be the entire ra3 community (which mean : not only the leet clans..also the others , newbies ect.. guess we have to start somewhere..

so..what are ur thoughts?

also check this demo..nice aimbot on cpma :/
http://www.psykopath.net/files/cpma_bot.dm_67
(first cheat in a few month, so it s not too serious )

 

[old.cheef]

In my personal opinion, I think the BWRA3L should stay with RA3.

Without a doubt, and with all the RA3 vs cpma arguments that have been rampent latelty, the fact remains that cpma just *ISN'T* the mod we've all been playing for the past 18 months.

Most cpma fans will state, "but cpma has proper movement, more cheat protections, more admin facilities" and yes, this is true; but it is a totally different game to RA3.

cpma may have all the bells and whistles, and may be more friendly to the DM'er that is used to OSP and it's gameplay.... but RA3 is for RA3'ers.

With Jolt and Savage moving to cpma, this would mean the end of competitive gaming for the RA3 mod in the UK. Why should this happen?

Currently, as we all know, RA3 servers can be packed full of players... can the same be said for cpma servers? Wiping out RA3 league competitiveness effectively means that FOR ra3'ers, there is nowhere to practice unless you find 9 or 10 people on the occassional cpma public server.

cpma *IS* good, but it *ISN'T* Rocket Arena 3.

 

[bigfoot]

I'm a bit surprised by you Cheefy, i thought u were one of the big "CPMA RA RA RA" fan brigade.

One thing worth pointing out is that i've seen quite a few big Ra3 clans saying they would not enter if the BWRa3L was Ra3 only, whilst i don't mind if it stays Ra3 or goes CPMA too much would more clans leave because the league wasn't CPMA than would if it was CPMA?

 

[old.cheef]

Aye that's the whole question really, and I just think that clan numbers would drop substantially if BW went cpma only.

 

[old.xBaboon]

Is that despite the fact that a few of the bigger clans have already said they won't play if it doesn't switch to CPM?

I personally welcome anything which means firstly any potential cheating is greatly reduced, secondly the admins have some form of control and thirdly we can actually aim *at* the person we want to hit.

Sure since 99w came out theres been some unrest, but the only real significant change imo was the shotty, but even then it's no bad thing. Having played on a few games with it makes very little difference to the game.

Even though RA3 is the mod we've been playing for however long, I don't think it's fair to say it's exactly the mod we've wanted to play, just forced to due to a lack of alternatives. Look at this league, a new rule had to be introduced just because odd numbers couldn't play.

I don't think asking clans to download a mod smaller than most of the custom maps we've had in the past is such a hardship.

/me inhales.

big vote for CPM here \o/

 

[old.unc]

The number of factors that cpm can boast over ra3 makes the decision to stay with ra3 in its current form a poor call imo. Although id be willing to wait for a new ra3 to see what improvements come with it, the fact is cpm is likely to be updated and improved a lot more in the future than ra3.

Right so atm the problem is people not playing on public servers. Well if theres no leagues running it why should people bother practicising it when it wont be useful for them in leagues, fun possibly but the number of people playing for fun isnt what it used to be tbh

Also out of interest, the leagues going the way of cpma, will they be using the promode settings for movement etc?

Feel free to disagree with what ive said and if it takes ur fancy come try take my ping over 100 with a pg

k feeling fragile from night before so gonna go collapse somewhere \o/

unc

 

[old.MKC-Warchild]

Call it BWCPMAL then

I've always felt in a minority when it comes to my huge dislike of CPMA. I am guessing BWRA3L will succumb to the flashy features of CPMA like every other league seems to have. But I totally agree with Cheef though. They are not the same game.

At least with the latest version (99W I think) the massive lag problems finally seem a little better. But I still find it a lottery to rail a fast moving target. Rails go right through people, yet aim a rail behind them and you get a hit. I'm not sure why but this lag effect seems to get worse with more players on the server. I've found little or no effect on a 3v3, but on 5v5 it's a nightmare. If anyone's got an idea how to fix this then I'd appreciate it. (I've got rate 6500, snaps 40, maxpackts 60, smthclnts 0, tn 0 and I have a solid 50 ping on ISDN)

And then there's the LG that everyone is raving about. Why would anyone want to have a more powerful and effective LG? I mean haven't people complained enough in the past about the LG domination in RA3? Now it's more powerful still and you expect the game to be fun? I can see the higher divisions (especially div 1) being almost completely LG only affairs.

I've got lots of other niggles, like the stupid overbright skins, the default 20 rail slugs allocation, the dumb 1v1 arena setup, the lack of a decent admin menu, the glow in the dark grens, lack of splash damage with rox, yet full damage through floors (I know it's a toggle), the dodgy rocket jumping and so on.

That isn't to say I don't like some things. But I still think it's not a finished mod yet. We all know the hassle we got every time RA3 patches came out with people not updating and delays to games. Well CPMA patches are coming out every couple of weeks right now. Imagine the problems that would cause.

It would be nice to have one league left playing the mod I actually like.

Right, I'll get off the soapbox now.

 

[old.A3GiR]

lo
i ve spoken to my clan m8s, and we all agree that Bwra3l should stay Ra3..
there is already jolt and savage for CPMA..so as Cheef said, it would be nice if at least 1 league still use our goood old buggy ra3 =]
and saying cpma is not played on public server cose clan does not have a reason to practice it is wrong...
there are lots of ppl who dont play in league/clans..and u won t see them on CPMA servers for different reasons (see msg of warchild,cheefox)
they are a part of the ra3 community aswell..
at this point i don t think CPMA will ever replace ra3..(i may be wrong tho )
well, lets hope CRT will move his ass =)

 

[bigfoot]

I think people dont play on CPMA servers much because of factors other than whether they like it - Ra3 does enough for public play and people are used to play on the same ips and servers, and also playing where other people play, that they just stick with Ra3 pubbies.

We will be changing one of the two CPMA servers to a CPMA Ra3map1 only server soon, will be interesting to see if it gets used.

As for the league, its as i said earlier. Some clans will leave if it sticks with Ra3 (and it wouldn't surprise me if in. were one of them), although it is impossible to argue that Ra3 in its vanilla mode is not more popular with the general playing populace. Would it be possible to have CPMA for Div1 and the rest Ra3? Highly Unlikely. Who are the people who most want to use CPMA? Div1 hardcore players it seems.

Whatever decision Fixeh makes i think some clans will quit, so its a no win situation really. CPMA has flaws, and i would include the fact it is still being worked on intensly as one of those, but it also has plusses from both an admin and a player pov. It is a shame there isn't an OSP Ra3 because some of the CQ3 changes are annoying and if they weren't there would make the move over much easier.

 

[old.unc]

My interest in cpm taking over from ra3 is mainly down to the fact i play cpma 1v1 a fair amount and like the extra speed and smoother feel offered by the mod. Sure some weapons are different in cpm but it doesnt take long to adjust.

One of the things warchild pointed out was the lg being more powerful and i do agree with this as being a problem and a toned down version as an option would be useful. As for div1 turning into all lg i think we arent too far off that with most maps neway in ra3 On the front of pg cpm feels a lot smoother with it and i now regularly enjoy spamming it

Should bw stick with ra3 i personally wouldnt mind (mainly due to not playin much now ) but feel that it would be beneficial if all leagues were using the same mod. As stated the two mods are different and some may not want to have to practice two different mods for leagues.

As for rails going through ppl and not registering this is incredibly annoying (especially if u realise ur playin with a huge positive timenudge after a week ) but with a bit of practice i found my online rail acc had gone up around 10-15% in 1v1. With more people on the server this drops but i should imagine those people graced with something bordering on an internet connection may find ca less of a problem.

Also pointed out is that cpm isnt finished and is still being "regularly" patched and updated. Id much rather have this situation where we can be sure issues with the mod are corrected when asked, than have to wait as is the case for ra3 now for an update for problems highlighted a fairly long time ago.

Im not going out to rip peoples comments and views to pieces with this but state my feelings as regards issues highlighted. I do realise cpm isnt what people are used to and feels very different but trust me that with some time put into playing it u will not look back

unc

 

[old.cheef]

There are no doubts that cpma is good, and will benefit the change over from MOD to MOD for the likes of the DM'ers out there that play for RA3 clans.

Point being though, RA3 is for RA3'ers, and RA3/OSP are two entirely different mods... if I wanted to play with OSP style settings, I'd join a DM clan.

We played our first cpma practice match yesterday evening, as I thought we should give it a go, and being honest it only enhanced my stance that the BWRA3L should stick with RA3.

There were many factors I didn't like, especially as previously stated where rails just seem 'off' (hitting when it looks like you haven't, and vice versa - tn or no tn), and also the power of the LG. LG is dominant in Div1 games as it is, and there will be no fun left in competitive RA3 if this will only be increased.

Okay, this could change in time as everybody gets used to it, but the point being that with the BWRA3L soon to be starting again, this doesn't *leave* us with much time to at least try and get to grips with it.

cpma has lots of good features, lots of improvements, lots of updates - yes, yes and yes; but RA3 is simplicity and it doesn't take a PHD to try and set up a server correctly to try and match *true* RA3 settings.

I also found myself turning on and off about 6 or 7 different bloody settings once on the server to try and get some sort of feel back, even then it just wasn't 'right'.

We all know how RA3 isn't the best for support, but it's still the game we've been playing now for over 18 months, and cpma will never replace it.

 

[old.^Kiwigit]

<---- Interesting

Anyway, tbh I agree with kie. CPMA is a different type of game. Ra3 is Ra3, lets face it Ra3 owns. Just create CPMA leagues as well as Ra3 if people/clans want to play it. Then we can have an option which to play. I don't think its right to take away Ra3, it still has a huge fanbase.

Kiwi
GiT ownz j00

 

[old.MKC-Warchild]

Wow!

I thought everyone loved CPMA, and I was alone in preferring RA3. Maybe we could start a resistance movement. hehehe

 

[old.unc]

Right how the two mods play is different due to matters of physics etc but the idea is to use cpm as a mod and use it to replace ra3. The actual way that matches will be played will be similar and its not like tactics will change dramatically. For all that cpm offers over ra3 i still feel that it is by far better for the community to switch to.

However its fairly obvious just from the thread that people feel differently as to whether ra3 or cpm should be used. ra3 was my main game before goin inactive and had it not been for cpm id prolly have left gaming for the time being. Ive had a lot of fun with ra3 but the annoying problems (admin issues etc) and lack of support from those developing it make it hard to support when I have a v.good alternative infront of me. Sure cpm isnt complete but it still offers more in certain areas than ra3 and imo it would be very beneficial to the ra3 community if the game type was easier for dmers to switch to and play. The ra3 community has undoubted talent but the extra talent that could be seen on servers if more dmers play would help improve the overall level of skill.

Having a ra3 and cpm league is just going to divide an already dwindling community, sure there are still a good few clans playing in many leagues having a split due to several leagues being played would not be at all beneficial.

ra3 has always suffered from a "newbie" image which if a switch was made to cpm would be removed almost entirely. The changes made to the physics etc by cpm increases the level of skill which an individual can reach.

I still like ra3 but after playing cpm for some time ra3 seems slow and poorly supported.

k lame me

unc

 

[Jintao]

I like both CPMA and RA3 but if I had to choose i'd go with CPMA for the new settings it offers. Yeh the simplicity of RA3 is for some people a good thing but isn't it just a little too basic? I think RA3 should have most of the settings CPMA offers by now. In all the updates we've had for RA3 has there actually been anything, apart from any problem fixing, thats significantly improved it?

Maybe if all the leagues moved to CPMA it might give CRT a push to give us what we want in RA3. I think BWRA3L should go with CPMA, at least for 1 season.

 

[old.a3-Lyn``````]

I have absolutely no motivation to bother arguing with any of you here, as everyone seems to either have a "cheef doesn´t like it so we´ll say we don´t either cos then maybe we´ll be able to join in." opinion, or just one that will not be changed, no matter how many points are made showing Ra3´s problems, and how CPMA fixes them.

So, I´ll just say this, and then ignore this thread altogether:

CPMA has the exact same movement physics as Ra3, has far better cheat protection, and is superior in every way to Ra3. Anyone that says that it isn´t, either hasn´t played it enough or is just a spasticated retard.

That´s it.

 

[old.unc]

aye but i want promode physics

 

[old.MKC-Warchild]

Huh?

Having rails that go straight through people yet miss, and rails that miss by miles and score a hit is why I agreed with Cheef. Not that he smells nice or something.

CPMA in my opinion is far buggier than RA3. They say it's the new Q3 netcode, and not CPMA, but whatever it is, it doesn't work properly. If someone can tell me how I can get it so I don't have to rail behind people to hit them, then I might like CPMA a bit more.

Oh and I don't like the LG in it either.

Sniff

 

[old.unc]

its more a case of adjusting to how the rg works in cpm than making changes to ur cfg. After playin cpm for sometime i v.rarely feel ive railed thru someone without it registering as a hit.

lg sucks basically unless ur on lan or have bb warchild unfortunately

unc

 

[old.MKC-Warchild]

Hmmm

I wonder if it's a CPU horsepower problem. My PIII 450 is feeling very old now.

 

[old.MKC-Warchild]

CPMA

OK, tonight MKC played Exclamation in our weekly slaughter on CPMA. It's really noticable the extra power of the LG when you have 4 people bearing down on you spewing electric death.

Actually the lag wasn't too bad tonight, so I wonder if it's a connection issue. There were only a few of the wierd rails tonight. Although I didn't get too much chance to rail before I was turned into an over-cooked Sunday roast.

I have found something I do like about CPMA though. The fact that you can use lightmap and still be able to see people. I'd forgotten how sexy lightmap looks.

 

[old.xBaboon]

It would be nice if peole actually read the documentation with CPMA for a change as well. All it takes is a couple of votes from the ref to get the game going, and then each team to speclock at most. And hearing anymore people calling the lg more powerful (promode 0) could just make me scream. It's a sad state of affairs when people actually want a laggier weapon just because they're used to not being able to hit with it.

No-one complains in tdm or other leagues with osp when they have to use a couple of commands to get the game set properly, so why should a rocket arena (clan arena whatever pedants might want to call it ) one.

If CRT were to patch ra3 now, and it felt a little bit different, what would happen then, as that would be the one 'true' ra3 by definition. Should we not upgrade then because it might not be quite the same mod that's been around for ages? Or is it ok to change as long as it has CRT seal of approval?

And picking a mod for a well run and organised league based on what public servers are full on a day-to-day basis is just lunacy. If things are changing for the better, not going with it is just sheer bloody-mindedness.

Most of all please, please read the docs with the mod before calling it shite and saying it's hard to use. It isn't.

 

[old.cheef]

Originally posted by xBaboon
If CRT were to patch ra3 now, and it felt a little bit different, what would happen then, as that would be the one 'true' ra3 by definition. Should we not upgrade then because it might not be quite the same mod that's been around for ages? Or is it ok to change as long as it has CRT seal of approval?

That WOULD be a case of having to get used to it, because it's the mod we've been playing for however long, and not something whereby a community is forced to make a decision in mod-changing. Changes in OSP and the like, for OSP players they just get used to it; your example would be the same in RA3's case.

I think the point that isn't really being understood is that I for one DO like cpma, in it's own entirity; but is not RA3 and shouldn't replace RA3.

They are essentially completely different mods, just running the same maps.

 

[old.unc]

By all means support the idea that cpm shouldnt replace ra3 due to them being totally different mods. But what i find interesting is that you posted on jra3l webbie that due to majority support the jolt ra3l will be using cpm instead of ra3. Why should bw stand out from the pack and use ra3 when a league u had involvement with made the switch?

Dont intend on suggesting reasons for this as ill probably be miles off.

unc

 

[old.xBaboon]

Just to throw more fuel on the fire (what else are forums for, if not a bit of lively debate ) I'm just interested to know what exactly the differences are between ra3 and cpm ra that make them so different.

Only things i can see is good netcode, and the 99w shotty change, which makes very little difference in games.

And as unc asks, why were the changes good for a while, but now seemingly completely the opposite?

 

[Jintao]

I think a poll about this on QN would be a good idea, or has there been one already?

Been playing CPMA a bit more lately and i'm finding it better each time. If I can get used to it anyone can .

 

[old.A3GiR]

bah..
/me is checking cpma servers.. (with ra3 maps) :

most of them empty..a few one with some ppl (german servers innit)
am trying to join the server..oooh gr8 game version mismatch
it s v8 , and i got latest version..mm..next one need a password..mmm

would be time to make a cpma/ra3 pickup channel(someone tell what s the chan ;p)!

about the lg :the net code improve the lg, so ppl with not great connection can at last use it correctly ( *isdn* ? )
so i understand why they want cpma (not the ony reasons i know)
LG was already quite dominant in clanwars, , now u can b sure that with cpma it will be a big LG rape all the way,
this give tdmers/ctfers users a game much more closer than they are used to..

i say keep ra3 for Bw,
play jolt and savage in cpma if u want to use cpma..

 

[old.unc]

as ive said previously i wouldnt expect ppl playing cpm until a league using it actually starts up properly. The majority of people unclanned will stick with ra3 as theres no reason for them to change mod and its possible many wouldnt know of the alternative.

I agree theres a lack of decent cpm ra3 servers online atm but this is due to the previous point. Why would someone put more cpm servers up if no one is using them? This is more the case with uk servers as i know a lot of people who play cpm will use eu servers.

Pickup channels then, another personal fav
In theory these should be great and if it could be made to work properly then cool im up for it. However getting 10 people to play ra3/cpm at the same time is often v.difficult and ull find around 5 of one clan in the game due to not finding a clan to play. Tactics arent used in general and in the case of a lot of one clan playing there is no real challenge in using tactics against a group simply ffaing it. Back to getting 10 people for it, i tried the ra3pickup some time ago and found that it took a long time for the topic to fill up with names, by which time u could guarantee some of the earlier names wouldnt be around or wouldnt want to play then.

So in practice if u want to play cpm for a laugh and practice stuff id go with public servers on the net. If ur after a decent game with tactics and possibly even fun id go with a clan match.

cpm netcode is helpful for isdners and although its not enough for peeps playin on it to compete in ca it makes the game at least more enjoyable. As for lg rape the fact im on isdn must give me a huge neon sign saying "come spam me with pg/lg" so im not too bothered about people using it on more people more often in leagues.

As for it being easier for tdm/ctf peeps to get into this should be a good thing, if people from these gametypes did take up cpm in leagues possibly more clans would be created and a stronger community with it. I cant see any drawback at all to more people who have played q3 at length playin cpm in its ra form.

And finally the point bw should stay with ra3 due to others are using cpm. Kie posted that the majority wanted cpm so jolt changed, savage have gone that way also so i see little point why possibly the largest league should stick with a mod to please the minority. On a personal note when i admin games for bw id much rather the cpm options than those offered with ra3.

Just my version of the points made, (wub woo a3gir )

unc

 

[old.sant]

We had a poll on our clan site, http://eq3.co.uk/evoke/polls.asp and at the moment most of us prefer RA3.

However, the only things I prefer in cpma is the improved cheat protection (although as we've seen not perfect) and the lightning gun effect which is the new one.

I do not, however, like the power of the lightning gun, or the overall feel of cpma compared to ra3.

I personally am looking forward to the new ra3 when they'll hopefully have the new lightning gun effects, and hopefully some improved cheat protection.

 

[old.A3GiR]

i ve had xperience with ra3pickup channels, and it worked pretty well..
1) i d say it was between a clan match and a public game..
so there were some basic taccies but not much

2) Usually every1 tried to make even teams ..i ve rarely played a game where the score wasn t tight.

3) We played all the maps..not only map1..

so i still think a ra3/cpma pickup chan would be great..
just need a good bot, and im pretty sure the chan will be full of ppl bored of playing cpma on german servers..

btw i m not sure at all that the majority of the ppl playing in Bwra3l want CPMA..mebbe in div1..
staying with a league in ra3 when 2 others move to cpma would be like a "security"..,so at least there is a transition..
(we never know mebbe Crt will move his ass?)
make all the leagues CPMA at once would divide the ra3 community even more..
im "awouaaaare" that if there is no update to the ra3 mod, we will have to move to CPMA
i thin,k we should wait a bit longer before change all the leagues to cpm..

i think clanbase stay ra3 or at least give the choice between ra3 and cpma
so why not bw?