blimey, Mythic listened 1.60d

[rynnor]

Originally posted by Flimgoblin

Oh we forgot the 40% damage bonus from wielding a two handed weapon for free

Actually Mid has no 2 Handed weapon styles unlike Alb/Hib - search on VNU warrior class stuff for the exact figures but its something like Mid do 107% damage with (1h) styles on a 2h and Alb/Hib do 120% damage - as you say we dont have to buy the ability but as you can see its not that we get the same thing for free.

 

[SilverHood]

Thanes turned into smizards ah yeah everyone fears a 1xx dmg dd/insta and face it, albs and hibs luv mjolnir

Hmm, I do about, 150-250dmg on yellow con oppenents with my bolt.
With the timer gone, I should be able to stand back and cast until all my mana is gone, then charge into battle (full end, cos of end regen) and melee away.

Or I can charge in, cast a few spells, then melee again.

This makes thane's pretty useful, as semi casters in chain, we can be interupt whores all we like without breaking CC...

oh, and we get STR / CON buff too

prepare to see a lot of thanes in the near future... all we need now is a dex buff.

 

[rynnor]

Originally posted by Flimgoblin

1.51 to 1.58:

PBAoE for spiritmasters.
Instant-pets for Hunters.
Increased melee damage for Warriors.
Thanes turned into smizards
Boosted shamans a million times.
10m castable end regen buffs.

Heh - PBAOE for SM's - cant have been that good because we still have very few SM's and a lot of those are specced in Darkness instead?? Plus we only got it because they wanted each realm to have it.

Instant crap pet for hunters - I agree - it saved time searching for a crap pet... Not really a balance issue since green pet at 50 with no ranged effect is just background...

Melee damage for warriors was a bonus for em but no biggy.

Thane changes might be good - see it when we get em.

Initially they fixed some of the broken Shaman stuff like the dd and bolt sharing a timer !!! The dd is still on a timer tho just not the same one.

End regen is nice but again we just got it because the other 2 realms had it already...

As you can see - this stuff was mostly to bring Mid up to the level of the other 2 realms not to overpower it?

 

[Darkh]

The changes don't have a great impact on minstrel's killing ability but increase the funfactor, which is a concept most ppl tend to forget.

Who cares about killing ability? Have you no idea what kind of an impact this has on the gameplay? It's like gameplay isn't in the equation of albion's kind of fun.

If one class in each of the other realms also got stealth and climb, I'd think it'd be fun as well. However, the only comparance I could make is giving a healer stealth/climb, which sort of is as stupid as giving minstrels the ability to climb.

Anyway, have fun, that's what albion patches is all about. It doesn't apply much to Midgard or Hibernia though.

 

[Darkh]

Just have to say, that Midgard FINALLY got endurance regen was the most wonderful thing that could ever happen. There's no surprise in Midgard getting that and PBAE a few years after hibernia and albion.

Spiritmasters have never been really popular, the PBAE didn't seem to change the midgardian opinion much either by looking at most popular classes. Wish we had more of them.

Oh and,

Oh we forgot the 40% damage bonus from wielding a two handed weapon for free

Using a two-handed in Midgard is gimped, whatever the mathematics say. The only class that should consider using two-handed are skalds. Thanes should have shields, zerkers have left-axe, warriors have shields. The only relaly nice thing about 2-h weaponry is that you level faster up to level 5. End of point.

 

[klavrynd]

Until their redcon pet interrupts them mid-fight and kills them.
people go "OMG REDCON PETS!" that turn on you every 12 seconds

they have the ability to charm up to redcons, doesnt mean you have to, there's ample nasty orange con mobs that are evenly nasty. ellyls anyone?

what i might give in to is that mincer charm is a chant so they cant use speed , or get rsi by twisting all the time being one of the downsides, but it still is way better then having a green con pet that cant even eat its way through a wet paper bag

Oh we forgot the 40% damage bonus from wielding a two handed weapon for free the ability to go SLAM and then immediately get your heavy hitting damage out?

yep, that happens all the time... , what's nice in duels or in miniscale fights doesnt exactly fit in medium to large scale rvr

2handed weapons arent worth the hassle due to pbt , especially if you can have your speccable shield ready at all times, if not to save yourself a bit, then to protect the casters/seers.

I'd not count soloing reds, or aoe dots utter gimps... buffbots maybe but shaman's are pretty good

every class with a dot can kill reds, kiting isnt that hard really

Anyway you seem to have completely missed the point of my post, as per usual.

/faints :sleeping:

swap the staff styles for LA if Klavrynd is to be believed then LA is crap and that'd nerf them bigtime

everyone whines about some screens they saw on vnboards or that once they got hit by a zerk over 4xx and la needs a big fat nerf.
I bet that if sb's didnt have laxe there wouldnt have been a fuss about it, or not the size it is now.
I find myself hitting for 150-200 all the time now , which isnt worth yelling nerf .

i suggest you try out a zerk and see what the damage is really like rather then judging on some "perfect environment" logs from tl's

 

[old.willowywicca]

Originally posted by Coren


No.

Would like to see you have to spec reasonably high in LA just to be able to use a 2nd weapon but not being able to use styles.

that'd make it celtic dual then would it?

(yes *technically* CD has styles, but they're all crap and not used cos base wep spec styles are superior, so speccing CD is merely so that you have a higher chance of suing a 2nd weapon per attack..)

 

[-mk-]

Originally posted by Darkh


However, the only comparance I could make is giving a healer stealth/climb, which sort of is as stupid as giving minstrels the ability to climb.

mincer-healer comparison? givf what you are smoking mate

Originally posted by klavrynd

they have the ability to charm up to redcons, doesnt mean you have to, there's ample nasty orange con mobs that are evenly nasty. ellyls anyone?

what i might give in to is that mincer charm is a chant so they cant use speed , or get rsi by twisting all the time being one of the downsides, but it still is way better then having a green con pet that cant even eat its way through a wet paper bag

hunter insta pets dish out a little less damage than a mincer's melee skills
oh yeah, we can charm orange con pets instead of red cons so we get ganked by our pet in 20 instead of 5 seconds. ever used minstrel charm? no?
(the only really stable pets are green/blue con human mobs. and i agree, the ones you can find in the frontiers are WAY UBER )

 

[Darkh]

mincer-healer comparison? givf what you are smoking mate

it's apparently not as good as whatever mythic is smoking. because the king's singing jester's will now put their 60+ lbs chainmail on them and climb midgard and hibernian walls.

ra conigurator says savages get ameliorating melodies, if that's true then i REALLY need to get whatever mythic is smoking. a frothing frollicking kobbie zerker is the last entity i'd think would burst out into singing health regenerating songs.

if the game balance would keep on tilting like this, it would all be so ironically parodic that i'm going to cry.

evade iii + chain + climb + ae mez is just a bad idea. take away the climb and you still have something good, but while mythic is at it, they completely seem to want to fuck it up.

like one of the nightshades said on this forum. sometimes you wonder if mythic's only worry is to give patches so that the people whining will continue to pay them.

they need to start reasoning. the ones that say minstrels can't do anything at keep takes should know that YOU ARE NOT SUPPOSED TO BE ABLE TO DO EVERYTHING (but mythic surely will make you able to in a matter of patches), so live with having something you can't do.

what's so smoked up about comparing by giving healer stealth? we have no other class to compare with. nerf minstrel armor if they should climb walls. it sort of is silly that people stealth around with chainmail. for those who have been in a full double chain armor knows what i'm talking about. there's supposed to be a bit of sense or reason, no?

that minstrels couldn't do everything before patch 1.60, isn't a good reason enough.

 

[-mk-]

Originally posted by Darkh

what's so smoked up about comparing by giving healer stealth? we have no other class to compare with. nerf minstrel armor if they should climb walls. it sort of is silly that people stealth around with chainmail. for those who have been in a full double chain armor knows what i'm talking about. there's supposed to be a bit of sense or reason, no?

well, give minstrels 2 instaheals, base, haste and resist buffs, insta 1500 range AE CC (including mezz,stun and root) and i'll be happy

now seriously, minstrels are secondary mezzers. following you comparison a minstrel would have to get either PBAE, personal bladeturn, a stable anytime pet or some sort of lifedrain

i fail to see how you seem to see a 300 radius mezz - that holds for 10 seconds at most and propably mezzes 2-3 people at one time, while there are about 20 more players/NPC guards in a keep - as a threat


and what's so crazy about evade III and 27% absorb armor?

friars get evade V and overall 25% absorb armor along with base and haste buffs (and they are a 'real' support class, not a songbot), valewalkers get evade IV and 33% absorb along with lifedrain, snare, dot, proc and haste buffs...

even berzerkers get evade III coupled with studded armor (8% absorb less - a whole world of dmg reduction ), parry spec and at least double the hitpoints a minstrel gets...

 

[Darkh]

my comparision was as serious as i think the whole 'give minstrels climbing ability' is. healers and minstrels are different classes, i'm sure you won't have to be a brain surgeon to look at spell lists and tell the differances, but thank you for telling me the differances.

now on to why i think xx% abs and evade iii doesn't mix. because it's not about xx% abs, it's about chain. friars use magic to make their absorption raise, also same goes for valewalkers.

i'm not originally a fan of the unexplained not being explained. magic is magic, but stealthin and wearing a chainmail is silly, climbing is even sillier.

it's like giving trolls stealth, not taking into consideration that they are strong, big and made of stone. they need to put more reason and sense into their patchings, else you'll soon start to see trolls ninjakeeptaking while kobolds hurls large boulders at you and dorfs still look silly like all dorfs do. (this is their special ability).

seriously. i'm not against powering minstrels, if even with a library of abilities they still can't be played right, go ahead, give them more handicap, but NOT climb. it has a large chance to affect the gameplay in a way only albion might find fun. which certainly spells BALANCE and fun for all it seems.

 

[-mk-]

please spare us with 'silly logic'
midgets wearing hammers and shields twice their size is silly, stinking dwarves hypnotising whole armies with their sheer beauty is even sillier......
it's a freaking fantasy game. think of minstrel stealth as a 'magic stealth song ability'

 

[kinag]

If all this is true, the Minstrels will go much slower down than they did before...
They will actually be what someone call overpowered..
think that takes some fun out of the game, if those albs on excal shall have more support to their classes than they already have

Does someone at all agree with me there? or am i totally alone?

 

[-mk-]

considering the low hitpoints, evade III and the downtuned AA will only effect the time you'll need to cut me into tiny pieces marginally.

go here for some test logs on the 'new' minstrel:

http://vnboards.ign.com/message.asp?topic=45073151&replies=2

http://vnboards.ign.com/message.asp?topic=45015961&replies=33

[edit] and yes, it's fun to sneak about the boards waiting for replies - at least if you're stuck somewhere with nothing else to do [/edit]

another edit: official TL word
http://vnboards.ign.com/message.asp?topic=45011728&page=7

 

[Elrond/Ruffting]

Originally posted by -mk-
well, give minstrels 2 instaheals, base, haste and resist buffs, insta 1500 range AE CC (including mezz,stun and root) and i'll be happy

oh please No healer can have all of those abilities, do some research Healer can get at most from that the 2 lowest level instheals, haste buff (celerity which lasts 20 seconds, 4s cast time, completely useless in rvr) 3 crappy resist buffs, 1 low level ae mezz, 1 low level single target mezz and one useless insta single target stun. (fyi there is no such thing as AE root for healers, and lol at insta AE root) Of course you have to remember that mez/stun will soon be based upon spell level not character level, so any healer with less than 48 pac (and therefor really low in other lines) will have his instas resisted almost all of the time... we are just turning into power buffbots and PvE machines. In rvr we are just too dull, the resists, determination, and crappy spell level vs character level stuff make anything except a pure pac healer rubbish, and u can't go pure pac these days cos groups will be expecting some form of celerity and maybe spread (and definately insta) heals.

If anyone needs a boost its healers, we have no offence at all, no defence except mezz and run, our aug line is useless in rvr (only reason i spec it is cos its semi useful for killing epic mobs), our RA's are crap (PR big deal, 14 points, I have it and it sucks in rvr again I only got it cos I do a lot of epic mob hunts and it can help there) We dont even have the OPTION to spec in an even semi-offensive manner, the other so called pure support classes of cleric and druid at least can get smite/a pet respectively. The healers lack of offense wouldn't bother me if the aug line was boosted...make celerity a chant or a half decent group buff lasting 5 mins or something and I'll be more than happy...quickcast for shaman would also be good seeing as they can't do jack when something gets up close to them. My opinion is if you are intent on keeping healers the only class in the realms with no offense, then they should be THE best group character.

IF anyone turns around to me and says 'wtf u on about, AE stun r00lz healers are teh uber' I would advise you to go play one. Ever wondered why there are so few healers in rvr? its cos they are the most boring class in the game...compared to a healer even the old mincers were superfun.

blah.

:wall:

 

[Mr TNT]

/me joins alb
:wall:

 

[mid-sinister]

Well im glad i rarely play daoc any more, moving onto the next new mmorpg, especially glad now I see mythic is still imcompatent, what kind of bullshit change is that?

Minstrels were powerful enough already, now they have evade 3 to be coupled with there chain armor, just add some dodger and a buffbot to that and welcome to assassin evade level+CHAIN, and THEN they can climb into enemy keeps?

Mythic hasnt changed, well good luck to all realms defending a keep against albion it should be fun ;p

 

[hellraisermk2]

Originally posted by -mk-


well, give minstrels 2 instaheals, base, haste and resist buffs, insta 1500 range AE CC (including mezz,stun and root) and i'll be happy

I'd like to see you find any healer with all those abilities. We get 1x spec points. If we want to mez/ stun on a level considered decent, we have to give up our aug line (bye bye resist buffs for the whole of mid) and lower our mend spec.


You'll find VERY few healers with 27 in aug to get only the first level resist buffs. You'll also find our Pac line to be average and not overpowered like everyone makes out. Like it or not, our insta mezzes are on a timer and with the insane resists and counter CC RA's available now, it isn't worth much anyway. Mend is works ok, but in terms of RvR, it's all but immpossible to heal your group members when you constantly get interrupted and taken down first (problem for all realms primary healers).

 

[-mk-]

Originally posted by hellraisermk2


I'd like to see you find any healer with all those abilities. We get 1x spec points. If we want to mez/ stun on a level considered decent, we have to give up our aug line (bye bye resist buffs for the whole of mid) and lower our mend spec.

same argument goes for mincers .... 1.5x points to contribute to 3 lines with inferior skills (except shouts and speed song)