blimey, Mythic listened 1.60d

O

old.LandShark

Guest
Originally posted by old.Hellskor
Let me get this right :

Assassin Stealth (Climb Walls, Detect Hidden, Safe Fall)
CHAIN Armor
Evade III
Ablative SHOUT
Orange/Red Con PETS
AE Mezz
Speed
Stun
DDs (reduced Power usage)

...

bit overpowered

Yes, except bullshit.
Chain armor evade3 - well, fine. Still inferior to see-hidden immuniy, evade7 and leather, but nm.
Ablative shout - yep, if you spec to 50inst for the final one, it's going to be cool. Possibly even overpowered; but hell, it helps albion not just minstrels. Btw; 50inst = 43melee 1stealth. i.e. if you have defence as good as an assassin, you can barely walk in stealth, you do NOT have any safefall, or climb walls, or detect hidden.
orange/Red con pet - yeah, it takes chunks out of you constantly and negates all your other abilities into the bargain, including the ablative chant I might add.
DDs - reduced power usage so that us and skalds are now as efficient as champs and bards! Woo! Nerf, quick!
Stun - yep. Going to be great that, will be just like our stun was pre-resists-affecting-CC-duration patch, i.e. 5-6seconds reliably.

me personally - 32stealth 37slash 44inst atm.
My ablative will take 20dmg off every melee hit, at a guess... k, let's take the average unbuffed SB and my 28%slash resist, and say that 20dmg off his mainhand equates to roughly 15% melee resist... well, yeah, that is NASTY tbh. I'll be stunned if that makes it live, if it does minstrels will be the new flavour of the month and then I cry in a corner somewhere. Especially since it's not pulsing, it literally affects EVERY hit you take. 20dmg off a spearo whack is smeg-all, 20dmg off a shadowblade's 50dmg offhand hit is a shitload... We'll just have to see.
Red/orange pet - nope, not with R5 and 44inst only I'm afraid. Ain't going to happen; low oranges resist minimum every third pulse, btw did you know our 'insta' charm can't be cast in combat any more? Stealth nerfed. Not that I give a fuck, but just to illustrate the point that pet turning on you = dead minstrel or dead pet + crippled minstrel. Notice that any pet = no ablative or 'assassin stealth'...
Right, 32stealth; assuming my stealth spec will be the same as an assassin's, then WOOT. Enough safefall to leap off milegates, detect hidden, and climb walls. Yep, fucking woot - in absence of any frontloaded dmg from stealth like other rogues have (mezz counts but only if you're grped) I'll take climb walls and safefall as an incentive to spec stealth.
37slash - well, evade3 is a useful defence boost, heh. I don't have a 6sec or 9sec stun like assassins do, best i've got is a 4sec stun off of block - btw more evade = less block = less reactive styles for me.
Not that it matters; they forgot to reduce the end use on skald/minstrel shouts, so we're still OOE in the first 10 seconds of any fight.

Summary:
Minstrels do not have speed, assassin stealth, red pets, full-power ablative chant and tank melee.
Minstrels can NOT manipulate the matrix as they see fit.
Minstrels will almost certainly not get to see all these changes go live. They're going to pull a "we thought the cleric changes would be overpowering" on us, blatantly.

As it is, you are going to have to be damn well-equipped to beat a minstrel 1v1.
I jump you. I have 202cha so my DDs hit for at least 350 put together. My mezz, hopefully, lands and i powersong for a few seconds while my DD timer cycles. I land another 350 of DDs on you, start meleeing. My damage is still crap and I'm still OOE very very quickly because all my styles are end hogs (or crap:E) and my magical abilities still use 5% end each.
At this point i shout my ablative, we melee, you die. I'm OOE so defensive tanks should still make mince of me. Anything else though is likely to be toast if they get jumped on solo by a minstrel...
Right. Now that I've admitted that, can someone show me which rogue doesn't take home the kill if they get the jump on someone and nothing goes wrong?
 
N

Novamir

Guest
the point is minstrels will have all that you have just described, PLUS be THE most important thing to alb RvR groups!

gahhh
 
O

old.Xanthian

Guest
Minstrels already have the ability's which allow them to solo reasonably well, better than most classes infact.
So why improve them ?

My Eld can't solo too well, give me IP and stealth please.
 
O

old.LandShark

Guest
To make us not overpowered but still more fun to play:
-Remove end cost on chants altogether. Same for bard/skald/champ/thane and anything else with instaDDs and styled melee, if there are any i missed...

-Keep evade3.

-Remove see hidden, camoflague from the game. Give minstrels JUST safefall (no climb walls) and make assassin detect-hidden twice as efficient as it is now.

-Let all our abilities be chantable at half efficiency. Speed, power, hp regen, ablative.

That is all.

Novamir, Xanny.... didn't I just say if all this goes live, we will be overpowered?
Defending a keep from albion will be evil. Secondary CC class with the ability to climb walls - haha, who thought that up?
Xanth: my minstrel is a power/speedbot in RvR atm, please give me 1500 400dmg nukes and sick PBAE please, oh and can albion have 90% resists yet please?
 
T

Tesla Monkor

Guest
Mythic has gone insane. 1.60 will change the balance so drastically that it's going to ruin RvR. (Which sucks at present anyway.)

<The changes don't have a great impact on minstrel's killing ability but increase the funfactor, which is a concept most ppl tend to forget. Atleast I'll enjoy using safe fall and climb walls heh.>

Please increase the funfactor by giving my huntress Evade III, which has been promised 6 months ago, but still has to appear. ;P

--

I don't mind Mythic trying to balance the realms against each other, but by balancing one realm at a time (Hah! is it even possible to balance one thing at a time? :)), they'll only increase the imbalane since for as far as Hibernia and Midgard know, they're being kicked out and left in the cold.

(However-- even if they DO promise that they'll do something about it, I'd be sceptical.. As a huntress, we've been lied to on numerous occasions. Mythic has a 'Promise this, do that' policy. In the end you can only wait, and see.)

Keep in mind that without motivated Hib and Mid players, the game is gonna SUCK for Albion too. This sort of thing does not motivate. At all.
 
M

-mk-

Guest

Keep in mind that without motivated Hib and Mid players, the game is gonna SUCK for Albion too. This sort of thing does not motivate. At all.

can you spell Enchanter, or perhaps Instant Area of Effect Stun :eek:
no? too bad ... :p




[PS: Enchanter and insta AE stun are placeholders for the generally more advanced hib/mid classes/abilities]
 
A

Arumar

Guest
ok, we'll give up the ability to climb walls by gimping our instr and hand to hand, if you give up the ability to insta aoe mez...
what's that? never? thought so....
Funny, hib and mid have had so many things handed to them while alb got nothing, now that alb DO get something, the mids and hibs scream nerf!
nerf the things that may make alb fun again, but if you're going to, please, nerf insta aoe mez, make skalds have to hold an instrument and not be able to fight doing effects, nerf zerkers, and most of all, nerf pbaoe on chanters. Let's face it, alb need something to balance things out, as with even sides, we get owned completely as we have no insta aoe mez, no class that can morph into a super tough warrior, and no class that can pbaoe a whole group by themselves
 
O

old.Trine Aquavit

Guest
I'd be happy to give up insta AE stun/mez.

Oh, I don't have it. :)

Actually, I would be happy to see pretty much all instas go, including my insta CC and heals and everyone elses instas. It would at least put us in the equation when it comes to realm balance.

This isn't a whine against the mincer changes, which are fine by me, just a whine againts the same old counter-argument, which I'm getting fed up of. It seems noone can understand that there's a lot we have to give up to get those instas - and not all of us want to trade.
 
C

Coren

Guest
OMG, ministrals get climb wall!!!1 FFS what is GOA thinking!!?




:wub:
 
M

-mk-

Guest
tztz coren...

the game is published by wanadoo, blame them :eek:
 
O

old.linnet

Guest
Originally posted by old.Kladen


minstrels hit harder than paladins so stop complaining

Minstrels have exactly the same damage cap as paladins (I've tested this with Asori) but without a damage chant, end chant, Af chant , shield spec, parry spec, etc ... so what was your problem again?
 
M

Meatballs

Guest
Originally posted by Novamir
the point is minstrels will have all that you have just described, PLUS be THE most important thing to alb RvR groups!

gahhh

minstrels already are the most important thing to alb rvr groups at the moment imo. Speed is everything :)


Minstrels already have the ability's which allow them to solo reasonably well, better than most classes infact.
So why improve them ?

My Eld can't solo too well, give me IP and stealth please.

The game is nothing to do with soloing, hence the term Realm versus Realm (RvR for short!).

I don't see the ablative chant being that strong, will be about 1/4 of effectiveness (if that) of a decent 6second pbt imo, (not seen any hard numbers on amount/pulse time from notes - but they say its a toned down version). And alb basically has zero 6pbt theurgists as that line needs love and mythic have so far forgotten to do much about it during these alb love patches, well cept pet which still leaves earth theurgs seriously lacking.

I don't really agree with giving minstrels climb walls, dont think its too strong/overpowering like some people think, just dont think it fits with the class, and if i was a mincer i'd prefer less end usage on shouts, better instrument system, better charming system.

Mythic dont seem to be fixing the problems with current stuff first and adding more, prefer it if they fixed, then balanced, then added more stuff if needed tho. Just take a look at the minstrel regen song (and skalds/bards) its pap, bump it up to schummat good, and fix bogus interrupts already, and fix intercept, and fix the spells landing due to their level, and fix god lots of stuff i dont want to rant about.
 
H

Hulbur

Guest
I think these changes are great.

It must mean that my skald gets his timers on his DD's set to 15 secs instead of 20 secs, gets acces to shield specc and 0.5 more specc points per lvl in the next patch. If he is to measure up to a mincer 1o1 now.

Since we have the advantage of being about 1-1½ month behind the US, if these changes make it live, ill kiss fare the well to midgard and roll a Mincer on prywden.

Fuck the fact that they get fact that they get climb walls. who cares?

All i want is evade 3, chain, speed, sos, dd's, instant stun, ablative pulse and mezz. Watch me take out small groups of yellows and blues in rvr. Solo!
 
L

lakih

Guest
I really hope the part where minstrels get Climbwalls and safefall dont go through... well.. maybe safefall but no wallclimbing.

It wont be fun to defend a keep from albion now. Minstrel climb wall, every defender mezzed... the infil-noob-zerg climbs in, 2-3 infil on 1 defender - BONK - next! -BONK- next!
Dont mind much about the evade III part (with i think hunters should get aswell) and they really need detect hidden...

Silly mythic "lets keep the cc down abit... oh, waith, lets just give sorc's 1875 range first..."

And giving love to one realm at the time is the worst thing ever... i rather see minstrel's with 3x speccpoints and CritStrike before that...


:m00:
 
X

Xandax

Guest
Originally posted by Meatballs
<snip>
I don't really agree with giving minstrels climb walls, dont think its too strong/overpowering like some people think, just dont think it fits with the class, and if i was a mincer i'd prefer less end usage on shouts, better instrument system, better charming system.
<snip>

You don't see it as overpowering to let a AOE mezzer get into the middle of a keep?
Or a stun shouter to climb walls?

I see devastating potential in this that will shadder all hope of keep defence against albions.
 
C

Cush

Guest
I cant see whats good about giving a CC clase the ability to climb into a defended keep while being in stealth.
 
W

-wabbit-

Guest
Im alb

Im alb and I never got the reason why Mythic loves minstrells....they were the easiest to play/best char in Albion, then the got a little nerf (or other chars got some loving) and now they get 200% loving....wtf? Remove minstrel from the game
 
E

Envenom2

Guest
what u moaning about xanthian last time we spoke u said minstrels suck what u complaining about?
 
K

klavrynd

Guest
Who put 3 mincers in the dev team??

I bet their plan is to let everyone move to albion so they can drop development in the other realms and drop rvr code entirely ("well uh we can't get defensive skills fixed in rvr, so lets just overpower alb that badly so nobody goes elsewhere? we've put all work in alb gfxwise so far, so its not lost work" - "sounds like a plan")

so now you've got the rogue that can evade with a 100kg chain armour on, climb walls and get every benefit from the rogue class without the paper armour downside, whereas hunters still have evade 2 , wear less armour and are a true rogue.

what's next? moving PA and CD into the stealth line? "We moved the left axe line to albion and replaced it with the dusty feather line, so midgardians that trained in it can make people laugh so they dont feel really buttfucked after they got owned by a minstrel"

Funny, hib and mid have had so many things handed to them while alb got nothing, now that alb DO get something, the mids and hibs scream nerf!

care to explain?

all i saw so far was a str/con buff for a hybrid to come on par with champs and ummm, can't really think of something else worth mentioning really
 
M

mavericky

Guest
At least they dont get detect hidden, so see hidden will work against them and they still dont have camoflage to help them there.

The other promising thing is that by giving them evade 3 any arguement about giving hunters the same will be quashed. Just hope they hurry up to the midgard changes
 
O

old.Filip

Guest
Hib groups will still own alb groups on even terms...

but i feel bad about the mids ... they have a hard time vs albs allrdy...

but now it will be really bad for em..
 
F

Flimgoblin

Guest
Originally posted by -mk-
tztz coren...

the game is published by wanadoo, blame them :eek:

NVIDIA make my graphics card which displays the game - lets blame them instead!

FFS NVIDIA WHAT WERE YOU THINKING!
 
F

Flimgoblin

Guest
Originally posted by klavrynd
what's next? moving PA and CD into the stealth line? "We moved the left axe line to albion and replaced it with the Dual Wield line, so midgardians that trained in it can make people laugh so they dont feel really buttfucked after they got owned by a minstrel"

note the change ;)
 
F

Flimgoblin

Guest
Originally posted by klavrynd
care to explain?

all i saw so far was a str/con buff for a hybrid to come on par with champs and ummm, can't really think of something else worth mentioning really

1.51 to 1.58:

PBAoE for spiritmasters.
Instant-pets for Hunters.
Increased melee damage for Warriors.
Thanes turned into smizards ;)
Boosted shamans a million times.
10m castable end regen buffs.

Champs given str/con buffs to make them powerful.
Bards given instant CC.
Druids given instant CC.

Clerics nerfed.
Earth wizards given a DoT, GTAoE and an AoE root.

Now a lot of the above was deserved... some of it not so... Shamans before 1.51 were in pretty shoddy state...

Thanes still are here in europe - but I think the removal of the cast timer and the extra hp will make them pretty evil.

1.59 and 1.60 does:
Give Sorcerers some group friendliness (minstrels were better CC than sorcs - one aoe mezz... two resists ... one dead sorcerer)
Give sorcerers an ability to _sometimes_ beat the insta-lull/insta-mezz (but not the insta-stun...)

Make theurgist pets less of a joke (one single aoe CC spell and byebye an entire theurg's manabar)

Improve Minstrel/Skald DDs
Give the minstrel something to do with their stealth line.
Give the minstrel some group friendly abilities (which they can finally use WHILE FIGHTING! that's the minstrels complaint... pre-1.59 a minstrels job in a group is 'powersong' 'sit' '/afk'. They can burn some mana DDing and stunning every so often but little else)

Now it might be that climbing walls is too powerful and it'll either not make the patch or get nerfed in 1.61... we'll see. I hope they give minstrels something else to do with their stealth line...

What if they make climb walls only work if they downgrade to studded or leather armour? :) (i.e. they _can_ wear chain, but if they're wearing it they can't climb, it interferes)

(and before the archers start whining ... stealth+range is really quite a good combination... that and camoflague lets you scout. Minstrels got... stealth from everyone but the assassins... but no range... now you'll need a stealther to defend your keep... oh wait you need that anyway or the infiltrators/shadowblades/nightshades obliterate you)
 
C

Coren

Guest
Originally posted by Xandax

You don't see it as overpowering to let a AOE mezzer get into the middle of a keep?

They gave sorcs climb walls aswell? :/
 
S

SFXman

Guest
lol... I think the forumite VN board raid was taken seriously... we had a joke thread about the wedding merchants on the dev board :p
Doubt it, still funny.
 

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