BD FG movie!
- Thread starter Bonehead
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Czaedes
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Belomar said:
Ye I see your case here really since the interrupt system is fubar. 1.68 will at least make it tough for a BD to keep 2-3 casters interrupted at the same time which could be of some help I suppose
However the problem with a caster having to use MoC to win against a BD 1on1 will still be there (perhaps apart from sorcs in Odin's/HWs with a 9 sec stun proccing pet, bolt range long dur ae mez and a decent nuke /shrug).I guess 1.68 could be considered somewhat an indirect nerf to BDs since one of our most usefull utility is to interrupt multiple targets at once.
Only time will tell
Bonehead
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Pfffffft!!! LIES!!!Belomar said:Anyway, I can see where you are coming from, but your 1500-range insta lifetap is a slap in the face to a set of a classes that is plagued by interrupts already. In the past I've had to MoC just to take down a bonedancer (hello, Bonehead!
Whisperess
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Decrease range on lifetap, change body debuff to 2 sec cast-time and that should be enough.
Anyway, for those of you facing such groups:
Maybe, just maybe, you should start using classes with AE-disease?
Anyway, for those of you facing such groups:
Maybe, just maybe, you should start using classes with AE-disease?
Dorin
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Whisperess said:
1st sentence: agreed
2nd sentence: k, hibs can use a mana eld to ae disease, the char is viable both in tank/caster setups (tho its not that regular in tank based setups)
But how does a body spec caba fit into an alb grp? Maybe it does, i dont rly know, but it will kinda gimp dmg output of a tankish setup imo . And if an alb caster setup hmm, 2 clerics 1 mincer 2-3 wizards (can put a theurg instead of pbaer) 2 sorcerors [mind-body spec] well not rly good to drop a wiz, theurg or sorc for AE-disease imo. so i just would like to know wot was your idea ?
Whisperess
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TrueBonehead said:
Nice vid though, awful assisting from most of those you met though, be it casters or tanks. I suspect this group will do very good for a few weeks until the "chock"-effect disappear from your enemies
Whisperess
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Forgot that it doesn't affect LT's ( actually didn't know, and it sounds broken to me ). But it do affect heals from pets, not that you shouldn't keep them mezzed anyway, so just forget about that second sentance ^^Dorin said:
I suggest you research Alb caster groups a little bit more. A very attractive Alb debuff caster group has 1 or 2 spirit cabalists as MAs, debuffing body damage for a number of mind or body sorcerers, and spirit Cabalists have at least the 25 AoE disease (if they are not entirely gimped). Even if you go with an elementalist-based setup, i.e. something like 2 x ice wizards, 1 x body sorc (for debuffs), and 1 x mind sorc (for CC), it is always worthwhile (IMO) to add a spirit Cabalist to the group to act as independent self-debuff nuker (with the added bonus that the sorcs can assist him if they get any time over).Dorin said:
Chronictank
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A fg minstrels with red con pets
When the tanks hit the pets release them
The most evil thing you can do imo
When the tanks hit the pets release them
The most evil thing you can do imo
rivan
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I knew this thread would turn into a 'omg bds are so over powered' thread, but here's an admittedly bias response.
I play all the mid caster classes, and I've played them with a range of specs in both PvE and RvR. I don't consider my Bonedancer any more overpowered than my Runemaster or my Spiritmaster. Each class has its niche, its roll to play, and situation where it will excell.
The Bonedancer is an excellent soloer. One-on-one it is without a doubt formidable, but by no means unbeatable. Most of the people who want to 'nerf' Bonedancers have never really played them to any significant degree (there will be exceptions of course).
Any Bolt caster can take down a Bonedancer with great ease. 2 Bolts and a DD, or even two Bolts with a nice crit will have him eating dust in the time it takes to /lastattacker /face. Is that overpowered? No. Bolt casters are designed to take down casters quicky and from range.
An Enchanter can QC Stun [Stun one of the healers if so inclined], and Debuff & Nuke away. Healer pets cannot keep up with debuffed nuke damage. Is that overpowered? Some would say that yes it is, but I don't think so. The Enchanter is designed to be a high damage-output Caster, and thats what it is.
An Animist can take down a Bonedancer with a variable degree of ease, depending on the turrert situation, and using Bombers.
A Cabalist can take down a Bonedancer. AoE Disease destroys green con healers who will spaz about ping ponging heals between the Caster, the Commander and themselves. The Stunning pet can melee the Bonedancer while the Cabalist retreats to safe casting distance and finshes off the Bonedancer with Lifetaps, or reapplies the DoT/Disease.
A Sorcerer can take down a Bonedancer with great ease. AoE Mez will render the pets useless. Even if the Bonedancer purges, his pets remain Mezzed for full duration. Tactics will depend on the Sorc's charmed Pet; if its a Tank, send it in to mellee the Bonedancer and keep him interrupted. If its a healer keep it back, etc. If the pet procs a Stun or something, even better. Matter specced can DoT to keep the Bonedancer limited to his Lifetap and staff as his only damage mechanism. Finish him off with DD/Lifetap/Whatever.
Any Stealther can take out a Bonedancer. Infiltrators & Nightshades; Critical Strike, Str/Con Debuffs up to 118, though more likely around 70, and Disease/DoT will significanly reduce the Bonedancer's hitpoints (and maybe even encumber them), and keep them interrupted or reduce healer effect. Swinging every 1.5 seconds against AF51 cloth armour does a lot of damage, combined with the initial PA (that punctures bladeturn), all the Bonedancer can do is Lifetap (he daren't melee since he'll just get evade-styled), which vs 26% resists, doesn't get enough HP back to keep him alive. Healer pets have a variable delay with their initial heal; the Bonedancer might be lucky and get healed straight away after the initial PA, but then again they might not get a heal off before he's dead. It depends which way the coin falls.
Scouts and Rangers won't have a hard time with a Bonedancer. They can use Penetrating Arrow/Rapid fire to take the Bonedancer out before he can hit /face. Correct me if i'm wrong, but Bow range > /face range anyway, so you can be shot by a well placed archer class without having a clue where its coming from. A Bonedancer is easily 2/3/4 shotted before his pets can get off a heal.
While the above is true, a Bonedancer can kill any of the classes I've mentioned, and any other class for that matter. It depends on a lot of factors. Skill, RAs, Buffs, Equipment, RR. The playing field is very often not level, so a fight could go either way, but the reality of a Bonedancer is a far cry from the god-like, untouchable, killing machine that can solo full groups without breaking a sweat.
There are classes like pure tanks and some hybrids, who will struggle against a solo Bonedancer, as will pure healer classes, but then a lot of classes WILL struggle solo against a lot of other classes, the game was designed that way.
Another point to consider is the reality of RvR at this time. Its not a soloers game any more. The environment is one of zerging, even stealthers tend to run in pairs these days, especially Mincers and Infils. Bonedancers are pretty much forced to solo, or run in specialist groups like this one, so they need to be equipped to be functional in that niche. The 'fotm' spec is the most functional line Bonedancers have available to them. It affoards them an unprecidented level of survivability for a pure Caster class, and a lot of people are not used to that, a Caster class that you can't simply walk up to, melee for 4 seconds and whore in the RPs.
A Supp/Dark Bonedancer is a unique kind of entity. They have pets that can heal 15% of their HP every so often, and a 3s uninteruptable Lifetap that does damage and takes a small number of hp. The Healer pets are nothing that people who run in normal groups don't get, or a Sorc with the right pet doesn't get. They are easily controlled by Mez/Stun with will effect them full duration. They have the added weakness of being connected to the Commander, so kill one target, in effect you kill three. The Lifetap can be debuffed to have added punch, but still returns only a small portion of the damage as hitpoints to the Caster. That alone should not be enough to keep the Bonedancer alive against any meaningful damage. It has interrupt potential once every 3s (most casting times are 2s or less with RAs), and it won't stop a melee char from swinging at you, or any other insta using class from firing theirs at you.
Pets are a great strength, and an extraordinary weakness of this class. The Lifetap is the saving grace, and is what makes a Bonedancer what it is; a Caster that it often takes skill to kill. At the end of the day though, we do our damage on a 3s timer at limited range, and with an unspecced highpower baseline nuke with clamped focus.
Don't judge too hashly if you haven't played one in RvR at 50. They don't scale well, and are far from the damage dealers a lot of Casters are. They are capable soloers, and rather unique when grouped.
I've rambled far too long, but Mythic are satisifed with the Supp Line as it is, and there are no plans to change it. Their future plans for the Bonedancer are to fix the BA and Dark lines to be more attractive.
-riv
I play all the mid caster classes, and I've played them with a range of specs in both PvE and RvR. I don't consider my Bonedancer any more overpowered than my Runemaster or my Spiritmaster. Each class has its niche, its roll to play, and situation where it will excell.
The Bonedancer is an excellent soloer. One-on-one it is without a doubt formidable, but by no means unbeatable. Most of the people who want to 'nerf' Bonedancers have never really played them to any significant degree (there will be exceptions of course).
Any Bolt caster can take down a Bonedancer with great ease. 2 Bolts and a DD, or even two Bolts with a nice crit will have him eating dust in the time it takes to /lastattacker /face. Is that overpowered? No. Bolt casters are designed to take down casters quicky and from range.
An Enchanter can QC Stun [Stun one of the healers if so inclined], and Debuff & Nuke away. Healer pets cannot keep up with debuffed nuke damage. Is that overpowered? Some would say that yes it is, but I don't think so. The Enchanter is designed to be a high damage-output Caster, and thats what it is.
An Animist can take down a Bonedancer with a variable degree of ease, depending on the turrert situation, and using Bombers.
A Cabalist can take down a Bonedancer. AoE Disease destroys green con healers who will spaz about ping ponging heals between the Caster, the Commander and themselves. The Stunning pet can melee the Bonedancer while the Cabalist retreats to safe casting distance and finshes off the Bonedancer with Lifetaps, or reapplies the DoT/Disease.
A Sorcerer can take down a Bonedancer with great ease. AoE Mez will render the pets useless. Even if the Bonedancer purges, his pets remain Mezzed for full duration. Tactics will depend on the Sorc's charmed Pet; if its a Tank, send it in to mellee the Bonedancer and keep him interrupted. If its a healer keep it back, etc. If the pet procs a Stun or something, even better. Matter specced can DoT to keep the Bonedancer limited to his Lifetap and staff as his only damage mechanism. Finish him off with DD/Lifetap/Whatever.
Any Stealther can take out a Bonedancer. Infiltrators & Nightshades; Critical Strike, Str/Con Debuffs up to 118, though more likely around 70, and Disease/DoT will significanly reduce the Bonedancer's hitpoints (and maybe even encumber them), and keep them interrupted or reduce healer effect. Swinging every 1.5 seconds against AF51 cloth armour does a lot of damage, combined with the initial PA (that punctures bladeturn), all the Bonedancer can do is Lifetap (he daren't melee since he'll just get evade-styled), which vs 26% resists, doesn't get enough HP back to keep him alive. Healer pets have a variable delay with their initial heal; the Bonedancer might be lucky and get healed straight away after the initial PA, but then again they might not get a heal off before he's dead. It depends which way the coin falls.
Scouts and Rangers won't have a hard time with a Bonedancer. They can use Penetrating Arrow/Rapid fire to take the Bonedancer out before he can hit /face. Correct me if i'm wrong, but Bow range > /face range anyway, so you can be shot by a well placed archer class without having a clue where its coming from. A Bonedancer is easily 2/3/4 shotted before his pets can get off a heal.
While the above is true, a Bonedancer can kill any of the classes I've mentioned, and any other class for that matter. It depends on a lot of factors. Skill, RAs, Buffs, Equipment, RR. The playing field is very often not level, so a fight could go either way, but the reality of a Bonedancer is a far cry from the god-like, untouchable, killing machine that can solo full groups without breaking a sweat.
There are classes like pure tanks and some hybrids, who will struggle against a solo Bonedancer, as will pure healer classes, but then a lot of classes WILL struggle solo against a lot of other classes, the game was designed that way.
Another point to consider is the reality of RvR at this time. Its not a soloers game any more. The environment is one of zerging, even stealthers tend to run in pairs these days, especially Mincers and Infils. Bonedancers are pretty much forced to solo, or run in specialist groups like this one, so they need to be equipped to be functional in that niche. The 'fotm' spec is the most functional line Bonedancers have available to them. It affoards them an unprecidented level of survivability for a pure Caster class, and a lot of people are not used to that, a Caster class that you can't simply walk up to, melee for 4 seconds and whore in the RPs.
A Supp/Dark Bonedancer is a unique kind of entity. They have pets that can heal 15% of their HP every so often, and a 3s uninteruptable Lifetap that does damage and takes a small number of hp. The Healer pets are nothing that people who run in normal groups don't get, or a Sorc with the right pet doesn't get. They are easily controlled by Mez/Stun with will effect them full duration. They have the added weakness of being connected to the Commander, so kill one target, in effect you kill three. The Lifetap can be debuffed to have added punch, but still returns only a small portion of the damage as hitpoints to the Caster. That alone should not be enough to keep the Bonedancer alive against any meaningful damage. It has interrupt potential once every 3s (most casting times are 2s or less with RAs), and it won't stop a melee char from swinging at you, or any other insta using class from firing theirs at you.
Pets are a great strength, and an extraordinary weakness of this class. The Lifetap is the saving grace, and is what makes a Bonedancer what it is; a Caster that it often takes skill to kill. At the end of the day though, we do our damage on a 3s timer at limited range, and with an unspecced highpower baseline nuke with clamped focus.
Don't judge too hashly if you haven't played one in RvR at 50. They don't scale well, and are far from the damage dealers a lot of Casters are. They are capable soloers, and rather unique when grouped.
I've rambled far too long, but Mythic are satisifed with the Supp Line as it is, and there are no plans to change it. Their future plans for the Bonedancer are to fix the BA and Dark lines to be more attractive.
-riv
rivan
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Divinia said:
Lifetap can interrupt, yes, but not if the Bonedancer has been QC Stunned; is the Stun sticks, no MoC/QC is going to work. He'd have to burn purge and try to interrupt a 2s casting time with his 3s LT. As I said, it depends on RAs, Skill etc. No outcome is predetermined, but I was trying to illustrate that a savvy player can beat a Bonedancer.
Fluid
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Lethul said:
yup, time a LT to land just before u get QC stunned, the chanter is then interupted for 5 secs of the stun, on 26% resists, that gives about 2 secs left to nuke a BD with 1400 hp(Buffed ofc) and healing pets before he insta interupts you again and lifetaps to death :x
Bonehead
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Intro: Megadeth - OnethingAeis said:
First and second fight: Titan AE - Splashdown, Karma Slave
Third fight: Marily Manson - Rock is dead
Last fight: Pet shop boys - Go West
Ending: Deftones - My own Summer
I think that was all!
Spamb0t
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Fluid said:
whenever u get the chanse to actually start nuking at the bd that bastard commander pet will be up ur ass bashing it to interupt u anyways.
a chanter will mostly need moc to have a chanse vs a bd!
and btw.. theres a movie of a bd fg on pryd done ages ago too ;o
Kami
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Ah people whinging, what's new.
Bonedancers aren't as bad as everyone thinks. They'll die in 2-3 nukes, like the Necromancer they're very vulnerable to crowd control and DOTing thier pets pretty much ends a fight. They're easy to kill if you actually stop trying to fight them like the normal RP farming groups you come up against. Perhaps it's time you stopped blaming a BD for playing his class and started playing yours and altering your group to suit? Sorry that your emain farming sesh's are being interupted by something different..
I play mostly Albion/Prydwen, 1 matter cabbie can decimate 1FG of Bonedancers if he gets a DOT on the pets. Sure he'll die but his group can mop up the left overs in seconds, hell get a Mez on them and you can pick them off at your pleasure!
Most Bonedancers you talk to would happily have alterations done to the class if they were made more group friendly and the non-suppression lines made viable to spec in.
Most of the whinging casters seem to have forgotten they'll soon have 1sec casting times once TOA arrives and that overpowered lifetap will still be on a timer..
Bonedancers aren't as bad as everyone thinks. They'll die in 2-3 nukes, like the Necromancer they're very vulnerable to crowd control and DOTing thier pets pretty much ends a fight. They're easy to kill if you actually stop trying to fight them like the normal RP farming groups you come up against. Perhaps it's time you stopped blaming a BD for playing his class and started playing yours and altering your group to suit? Sorry that your emain farming sesh's are being interupted by something different..
I play mostly Albion/Prydwen, 1 matter cabbie can decimate 1FG of Bonedancers if he gets a DOT on the pets. Sure he'll die but his group can mop up the left overs in seconds, hell get a Mez on them and you can pick them off at your pleasure!
Most Bonedancers you talk to would happily have alterations done to the class if they were made more group friendly and the non-suppression lines made viable to spec in.
Most of the whinging casters seem to have forgotten they'll soon have 1sec casting times once TOA arrives and that overpowered lifetap will still be on a timer..