Asylum Seekers; Yay or Nay?

[Talivar]

Then he needs punishing and the message being sent, the issue is that the ENGLISH media and politicians are the weak link and fail to cover the story in the correct manner, they either demonize every Iraqi or they go into silent hush hush mode , which in turn just causes paranoia

 

[throdgrain]

the fucking shite you lot talk

 

[Gwadien]

What the fuck is British Culture anyway? During WW2 there was a huge effort by the government to push this notion of British Culture in peoples lives by setting up performances and stuff of 'high' culture since in reality British 'low' culture is so fluid and it changes constantly.

The French have a larger sense of culture than us, but its still not a massive important thing; the notion of in certain areas businesses open at peculiar hours and you have to get the correct local builder to build something etc etc, but when you get into urban areas, this begins to disappear.

I'm going for an interview on Tuesday for teacher training, one of the questions is like 'what is British culture and why is it important' IE you can't say 'personally I don't believe in it.'

I'd argue that British culture is about accepting people, the idea of our culture being about the arts and such is bullshit unless you earn over 60k a year.

IE I bet theres more in common between Job and some random muslim dude than there is with Job and Throdgrain.

 

[Gwadien]

Hmm, not entirely convinced by that; birds of a feather etc. Let's put it this way, white expats and retirees who move to Spain or Cyprus or Dubai tend to colonise certain areas. Its a fairly consistent desire to mix with your own that transcends cultures.

Kind of a different kettle of fish.

Especially more so from the Asylum seeking aspect.

My mum works in one of these ghettos in Leicester, and its clear to see that families get off the plane and are told by their cousin brothers where to move into without any intervention from the state. Which is where the state should be helping, creating ghettos isn't an active mistake its more down to negligence more than anything.

If you went to the families which my mum works with, and you say to them if you move half a mile down the road, you'll get a much nicer house and a better school for your kids, but since there isn't any input from the state like that in the early days, and the state only cares when one of those kids buys a suspcious plane ticket to Turkey.

 

[Job]

Culture isn't some bullshit elitism forced onto the egos of people so they can convince themselves they have moved up in the world.
It's familiarity, all the subtle behaviours and attitudes to social interactions, shared history, confidence to walk down the street and know intrinsically what people are about, learned over the centuries.
Putting millions of people from vastly different cultures overnight into the mix results in xenophobia, which I believe is the reaction of 90% of the indigenous people, they are just too scared to mention it, but white flight gives the game away.

 

[Gwadien]

So you pretty much said culture is a bullshit excuse its a pure xenophobic hatred?

 

[DaGaffer]

Then he needs punishing and the message being sent, the issue is that the ENGLISH media and politicians are the weak link and fail to cover the story in the correct manner, they either demonize every Iraqi or they go into silent hush hush mode , which in turn just causes paranoia

Job being selective with his quotes again. Reading about it, the incident took place in Vienna, and the guy freely admitted: He told police that he knew such an act was 'forbidden in any country of the world'. So, not some cultural baggage he's brought with him them, just your standard level horrible scumbag.

This isn't excusing anything, or the shitheads in Cologne (which in that case probably was, at least partially, culturally driven; North African men in particular have zero respect for western women, and its a cultural thing that pre-dates Islam), but unfortunately the world is full of shitbags and they're not all brown, several are currently running for the Republican nomination for example.

 

[Talivar]

Yep and they far more scary than anything we can imagine

 

[Gwadien]

But don't forget were defending our culture, our culture to hate people who aren't like us.

 

[throdgrain]

Job being selective with his quotes again. Reading about it, the incident took place in Vienna, and the guy freely admitted: He told police that he knew such an act was 'forbidden in any country of the world'. So, not some cultural baggage he's brought with him them, just your standard level horrible scumbag.

This isn't excusing anything, or the shitheads in Cologne (which in that case probably was, at least partially, culturally driven; North African men in particular have zero respect for western women, and its a cultural thing that pre-dates Islam), but unfortunately the world is full of shitbags and they're not all brown, several are currently running for the Republican nomination for example.

Pre-dates Islam? That's bollocks.

 

[Job]

Anyone who denies xenophobia, racism, jealousy and envy are the base ingredients of the human condition is living in cuckoo land.

 

[DaGaffer]

Pre-dates Islam? That's bollocks.

Patriarchal desert nomads treating women as chattel and regarding women who don't behave "modestly" as fair game? Too fucking right it predates Islam. It predates Rome (the Carthaginians - from Tunisia, also sacrificed babies), and was a pretty common behaviour amongst Christians until relatively recently. Its not an attitude that's Islam-specific; in fact even now, look at the behaviour of Hindu men in India.

 

[Job]

I would say mistreating women is the default for men, we simply strive not to do it, everytime enlightened society falls apart we will revert to type.

 

[TdC]

Anyone who denies xenophobia, racism, jealousy and envy are the base ingredients of the human condition is living in cuckoo land.

They're not.

I would say mistreating women is the default for men, we simply strive not to do it, everytime enlightened society falls apart we will revert to type.

It's not.

I'm only a cuckoo when I'm discussing financial things with DaGaffer.

 

[Gwadien]

Patriarchal desert nomads treating women as chattel and regarding women who don't behave "modestly" as fair game? Too fucking right it predates Islam. It predates Rome (the Carthaginians - from Tunisia, also sacrificed babies), and was a pretty common behaviour amongst Christians until relatively recently. Its not an attitude that's Islam-specific; in fact even now, look at the behaviour of Hindu men in India.

Indians are weird though.

Publicly women are second class citizens and rape is rife.

But most families are staunchly matriarchs when it comes to the home in general.

 

[DaGaffer]

Indians are weird though.

Publicly women are second class citizens and rape is rife.

But most families are staunchly matriarchs when it comes to the home in general.

The point I was making is that bad attitudes towards women are no means specifically Islamic.

 

[Bodhi]

What the fuck is British Culture anyway? During WW2 there was a huge effort by the government to push this notion of British Culture in peoples lives by setting up performances and stuff of 'high' culture since in reality British 'low' culture is so fluid and it changes constantly.

The French have a larger sense of culture than us, but its still not a massive important thing; the notion of in certain areas businesses open at peculiar hours and you have to get the correct local builder to build something etc etc, but when you get into urban areas, this begins to disappear.

I'm going for an interview on Tuesday for teacher training, one of the questions is like 'what is British culture and why is it important' IE you can't say 'personally I don't believe in it.'

I'd argue that British culture is about accepting people, the idea of our culture being about the arts and such is bullshit unless you earn over 60k a year.

IE I bet theres more in common between Job and some random muslim dude than there is with Job and Throdgrain.

Tbh I would say you've either never been to France or never spent a decent amount of time with French people.

 

[Gwadien]

The point I was making is that bad attitudes towards women are no means specifically Islamic.

Oh yeah, I know, in addition to this indian Muslims are very similar to Hindu Indians where theyre the minority.

 

[Gwadien]

Tbh I would say you've either never been to France or never spent a decent amount of time with French people.

Nah youve right, only been once or twice a year for my life.

Western Cultures are fluid compared to everywhere else.

 

[Bodhi]

Don't agree tbh, I lived in France for 18 months in the early 90s, and now visit Paris all the time - in fact I'm here right now. Absolutely bugger all has changed in that time. Loads of places shut on a Sunday, even here in Paris, all the tv is still in French (by law). Business is still conducted in French (despite working for a US company) - even the tv channels are the same as they were 20 years ago (except M6 has disappeared, which is a shame as they always had soft porn on a Sunday).

 

[Gwadien]

Don't agree tbh, I lived in France for 18 months in the early 90s, and now visit Paris all the time - in fact I'm here right now. Absolutely bugger all has changed in that time. Loads of places shut on a Sunday, even here in Paris, all the tv is still in French (by law). Business is still conducted in French (despite working for a US company) - even the tv channels are the same as they were 20 years ago (except M6 has disappeared, which is a shame as they always had soft porn on a Sunday).

Haha I remember the softporn on 'normal TV' in France.

This is kinda my point about stuff like being shut at weird times and only using specific local builders etc, they're trying to grasp onto their last straws of their culture to stop theirselves going full American consumerism capitalists with a massive cultural melting pot (bar rural areas.)

Again, much like Job talking about culture, I feel that we lost it post WW2 really, and the Government was even aware of it, hence why they tried to give us a fake culture to fight for and defend.

And I think we only get our culture when we're resisting something.

Walk down UK highstreets and that'll show you.

This is why sociologists argue subcultures are dead, because there isn't any main culture to derive new niche cultures from

 

[Tom]

I don't understand how anyone can think that this country has no culture of its own. Culture is mutable. And frankly, I'm not sure I'd like to live in 1950s Britain. You can look through rose-tinted glasses all you like but for the majority of working people back then, life was hard, short and shit.

 

[Gwadien]

I don't understand how anyone can think that this country has no culture of its own. Culture is mutable. And frankly, I'm not sure I'd like to live in 1950s Britain. You can look through rose-tinted glasses all you like but for the majority of working people back then, life was hard, short and shit.

I was saying in 1950s Britain there was no concrete British culture.

 

[DaGaffer]

Sorry, disagree. Britain probably had the most unified culture its ever had from about 1940 to the mid-sixties. As much as any nation can have a common culture, Britain had it then. But historically such things are rare in most countries. (The US had a common culture at around about the same time, but it fractured after Vietnam and has been splitting into the two coasts versus the middle ever since).

 

[Job]

Skin colour, physical features are irrelevant to even the worst xenophob as soon as he communicates with an immigrant and finds common ground, same desires, same values.
Unfortunately, straight from strict muslim countries and dropped off in the streets of western Europe is a recipe for conflict.

 

[Gwadien]

Watch the BBC programme with Simon Reeve in it - or the first 30 minutes or so.

It's a pretty fair evaluation.

 

[Bodhi]

Mexico: Sikh actor barred from flying to US 'because of turban' - BBC News

Dear oh dear. Snackbarists don't even wear proper turbans, maybe a dishcloth on their head tied up with string at the most.

 

[DaGaffer]

Mexico: Sikh actor barred from flying to US 'because of turban' - BBC News

Dear oh dear. Snackbarists don't even wear proper turbans, maybe a dishcloth on their head tied up with string at the most.

Er, Afghans wear a type of turban; its not as tightly wrapped as the Sikh variety, but its similar enough. And besides, If I was a nefarious Islamist wanting to blow shit up, I could always pretend to be a sikh in order to wear a turban, no?

 

[Raven]

Its racial profiling based on silly hats.

 

[DaGaffer]

Its racial profiling based on silly hats.

I prefer to think of it as silly hat profiling based on the potential to hide shit in it. Also see niqab, burkha etc.