Assasin Survey

[iluvatur]

keep dragonfang like it is .... knock back infs to 2.2 spec points

 

[iluvatur]

( everyone notices i rolled a shadowblade )

 

[BidAccount]

Originally posted by envenom
the guy is fotm he only started playing after sbs got nerfed lol hes just like glottis but worse in his own way

Gods where to begin - so much stupidity in one small space.

Reread past posts please.

My infil started when BGs cam in and was levelled to 50 solo. I played pre 1.62 but was so sick of the overpowered shadowzerg that I decided i was not a free rp machine so went back to PvE. Post 1.62 I tried again and found a greater level of equality - I still lost more than I won, but it wasn't in 3-4 shots anymore.

Like archers - I think you'll find a lot of dusted off characters returning after Left Axe was, quite correctly, fixed.

 

[jua-]

Re: stun ratio concept

Originally posted by Haldar
currently:

chance to lang Dfang each given round:
25% (chance for infi to evade) * 75% (chance that SB will NOT evade) = 18.75%

chance to land CB-FG each given round:
25% (chance for SB to evade) * 75% (chance that infi will NOT evade CB) * 75% (chance that infi will NOT evade FG) = 14.06%

Dfang is 33.(3)% is easier to land than CB-FG.

so infi currently have
9*18.75%=168.75 stun ratio
while SBs have
7*14.06%=98.42 stun ratio,
and now we see that Infi's stunning abilities are (168.75-98.42)/168.75=71.46% more powerful than SB ones.

To preserve stun balance, either CB-FG stun should be 33.(3)% longer than Dfang's - 12 seconds instead of 7 (12*14.06~=168.75) or Dfang stun should be 25% shorter than CB-FG - 5.25 seconds instead of 9 (5.25*18.75~=98.42)

[edit]
i do not mention facts that
1. CB-FG are medium+ to hit
2. Dfang is high+ to hit
3. FG is 39 spec
4. Dfang is 50 spec
5. FG is offhand
6. Dfang is mainhand
bcoz i beleive that impact of these differencies is rather small and generally balances itself.

well it also depends a lot on the styles each is using (to hit bonuses nd i am not talking about the high to hit bonus df has thats after you evade) and thats way more important that the facts you mentioned here...

 

[BidAccount]

Originally posted by Whisperess
Once again you dodge the rest of the post and only pick on things you can - trying to freeze out the rest.

As are you somewhat - lets take it bit by bit.

Originally posted by Whisperess
Point is - you have to land one directly after evade - this is easily done with backup styles, you don't even have to see that you evaded and change styles, the stun lands automagically..

As do all backup styles - wheres the 'skill' required to set comeback/garrote then frosty glaze/garotte? or any other backup style. This is not a dragonfang issue.

Originally posted by Whisperess I can't see the reason to why SB's only evade based stun for less duration than infil one should be more difficult to land! ( and more difficult than Diamondback too ).[/B]

Ask the game designers - some stuns are anytime, some ranged, some 2 stage chains, some positional. Different characters, different spec lines, different stuns.

Originally posted by Whisperess The 'but it's a lvl 50 style!!!!!111' argument does not hold since you get 2.5 specpoints per level and don't give up points elsewhere to get to 50 thrust compared to what an SB would have to.

You get 453 points more than SB's / NS's.

These extra points are enough to raise weapon from 41 -> 50 alone. So don't give me that crap excuse.[/B]

Actually it does. Thrust is a suckass line with 2 viable styles - one of which is at 50 spec. The extra 0.3 was set to create a balanced spec - most of which is spent on taking thrust to 50. Not an accident, but game design intent - go argue it with the designers.

Originally posted by Whisperess Second point was that you are automatically able to land the highly damaging 'off evade' styles when stuns land, whereas Shadowblades have to evade one extra time after comeback has landed to be able to do this.[/B]

if you look above I agree on thias point - reset the last attack result flag after the stun starts.

Originally posted by Whisperess I'm not arguing that the style Dragonfang in general should be nerfed; it's the combination of DF, Evade VII ( this shouldn't be changed ), Str/Dex weaponskill & 2.5 specpoints per level ( this however should imo ) that I feel need to be adressed..[/B]

which is exactly why I'm raising this - there are lots of 'feelings' that are based on no fact whatsoever, just things people don't like, are jealous of, haven't understood etc. If you have an argument base it on fact, not 'waaa 2.5 spec points, unfair' - theres a clearly stated reason for this. You think its wrong - make a case and back it up.

Originally posted by Whisperess If you think the current situation is 'fine' - then you're clearly 'fotm'; no matter when you leveled your infil or why. [/B]

Oh dear - someone called me fotm - I must now find a corner and cry. Grow the fuck up! Stop whinging and make your case - so far you haven't substantiated a damn thing. And if I am fotm then i must now go and roll a savage, healer, and bonedancer - plus buy a SB on ebay and whine like hell about LA adjustments.

 

[Puppetmistress]

Originally posted by Haldar
I To preserve stun balance

ROTFL.

I got another one:

Healers got AoE-stun which is 11 seconds (delve) at 50 pac spec.

Now your own words:

To preserve stun balance I suggest introducing AoE-slam to paladins at 50 shield-spec, lasting 11 seconds. We're trying to put also the range of 1500 of the healer into numbers (stun balance!) compared to melee-range of the paladin, but this is largly compensated by magic resists and determination.

Thank you for playing Dark Age of Mathalot

 

[Haldar]

well it also depends a lot on the styles each is using (to hit bonuses nd i am not talking about the high to hit bonus df has thats after you evade) and thats way more important that the facts you mentioned here...

plz explain. i did not understand ur words.

ROTFL.

I got another one:

Healers got AoE-stun which is 11 seconds (delve) at 50 pac spec.

Now your own words:

To preserve stun balance I suggest introducing AoE-slam to paladins at 50 shield-spec, lasting 11 seconds. We're trying to put also the range of 1500 of the healer into numbers (stun balance!) compared to melee-range of the paladin, but this is largly compensated by magic resists and determination.

Thank you for playing Dark Age of Mathalot

1. i am concerned about AvA balance issues, and talking about AvA balance here, so PLEASE remove ur paladin/healer problems from this thread.

2. well, if pallies get an aoe slam, then
to preserve RA balance
a) i want SoS for skalds instead of Rage of Gods -- Mincers come for ur new toy
b) give Bof to healers -- Clerics come, PR awaits u
c) give VP to RMs.
d) and do not forget Solider's barricade for warriors
and to balance other issues
e) give more defence to shammies so they be comparable with pallies in survivability -- Evade 1-2, shield spec, parry spec and 2.0 spec pts
f) givf insta stun, ae mezz and cure mezz to skalds.
and a small gift
g) increase damage of mercs by 15% to be comparable with savages.
should i continue? Doh.

3) see #1.

 

[BidAccount]

The flaw is to compare single class v single class without looking at realm context.

Or even worse is single style v single style.

Or worse still spec point total v spec point total

his is a realm v realm game, not a solo duellist arena. Things must be taken in a wider context to provide a valid analysis.

 

[Silenzio]

damn hahaha this thread still goin on?


the problem is right... "Balance"
a game should not be balanced as rl isnt it...

u make ur choice u select ur path... than u only have to balme or clap ur self...

most ov the problem we r arguin about comes from the time mythic started his balance policy

've good time

 

[Puppetmistress]

Originally posted by Haldar
well it also depends a lot on the styles each is using (to hit bonuses nd i am not talking about the high to hit bonus df has thats after you evade) and thats way more important that the facts you mentioned here...

plz explain. i did not understand ur words.

ROTFL.

I got another one:

Healers got AoE-stun which is 11 seconds (delve) at 50 pac spec.

Now your own words:

To preserve stun balance I suggest introducing AoE-slam to paladins at 50 shield-spec, lasting 11 seconds. We're trying to put also the range of 1500 of the healer into numbers (stun balance!) compared to melee-range of the paladin, but this is largly compensated by magic resists and determination.

Thank you for playing Dark Age of Mathalot

1. i am concerned about AvA balance issues, and talking about AvA balance here, so PLEASE remove ur paladin/healer problems from this thread.

2. well, if pallies get an aoe slam, then
to preserve RA balance
a) i want SoS for skalds instead of Rage of Gods -- Mincers come for ur new toy
b) give Bof to healers -- Clerics come, PR awaits u
c) give VP to RMs.
d) and do not forget Solider's barricade for warriors
and to balance other issues
e) give more defence to shammies so they be comparable with pallies in survivability -- Evade 1-2, shield spec, parry spec and 2.0 spec pts
f) givf insta stun, ae mezz and cure mezz to skalds.
and a small gift
g) increase damage of mercs by 15% to be comparable with savages.
should i continue? Doh.

3) see #1.

I got an easier solution: Instead of trying to 'balance the game' and trying to make all realms the same stop the whining about 'preserving balance' and roll Albion on another server and get all the goodies and.........more!

I was ofcourse joking about AoE shield-slam because it's silly to compare things like 'stun balance' and more of that crap.

You want some balance, but you dont want 3 equal realms.

You want 9 sec stun straight from Evade? Go roll an infiltrator.
You want 11 sec AoE stun on 1500 range? Go roll a healer.
You want to quadhit a paladin for over 600? Go roll a savage.
You want to get BOF? Go roll a cleric.

 

[Puppetmistress]

e) give more defence to shammies so they be comparable with pallies in survivability -- Evade 1-2, shield spec, parry spec and 2.0 spec pts

This makes as much sense as saying clerics should have Advanced Evade 4 and all other savage goodies.

 

[-RG-Jaond]

Originally posted by Silenzio
damn hahaha this thread still goin on?


the problem is right... "Balance"
a game should not be balanced as rl isnt it...

u make ur choice u select ur path... than u only have to balme or clap ur self...

most ov the problem we r arguin about comes from the time mythic started his balance policy

've good time

Ah thats why all infils whining so much about overpowerd sb, funny how infils talking about how Goa should not nerf and just give love now when sb got nerfed

You next to get the nerf bat so say bye bye to your fotm

 

[BidAccount]

Originally posted by -RG-Jaond
Ah thats why all infils whining so much about overpowerd sb, funny how infils talking about how Goa should not nerf and just give love now when sb got nerfed

You next to get the nerf bat so say bye bye to your fotm

/yawn

You sur e you don't have this on a macro to spam - perhaps replacing your old doublefrost button.

keep wishing Jaond....

 

[Haldar]

Originally posted by donttouchpoopy
The flaw is to compare single class v single class without looking at realm context.

Or even worse is single style v single style.

Or worse still spec point total v spec point total

his is a realm v realm game, not a solo duellist arena. Things must be taken in a wider context to provide a valid analysis.

i would consider ur words IF my class were given some group abilities - so i may think -- "i am weaker than Infiltrator but my friend <insert class> is stronger than thier <insert class>".

But assasins are not group-friendly chars.

I solo 90% of the time, i group with stealthers 9% of the time and i run with my guild 1% of the time.

And 80% of my targets are other assasins.

78% of all Shadowblade's RvR fights are versus another assasins -- this is the reason of the need to balance stealthers apart from realms.

Besides, Albion stealthers (which ARE major part of rvr) already got a heavy advantage over other realms - due to simple presense of Ministrel.

You want 9 sec stun straight from Evade? Go roll an infiltrator.
You want 11 sec AoE stun on 1500 range? Go roll a healer.
You want to quadhit a paladin for over 600? Go roll a savage.
You want to get BOF? Go roll a cleric.

contunuing logic....

u want to have that uber LA damage - go roll a zerker!

why did u whine back then?

This makes as much sense as saying clerics should have Advanced Evade 4 and all other savage goodies.

erm..why? End provider is vital for group, this class should have good defence. and pally>bard>>shaman here.

 

[BidAccount]

Originally posted by Haldar

contunuing logic....

u want to have that uber LA damage - go roll a zerker!

why did u whine back then?

Because this was a programming mistake across two classes that causes realm imbalance.

It wasn't by design or intent - it was never meant to be as it was. Mythic have clearly stated this.

It was simply correcting a programming error.

 

[Silenzio]

Originally posted by -RG-Jaond
Ah thats why all infils whining so much about overpowerd sb, funny how infils talking about how Goa should not nerf and just give love now when sb got nerfed

You next to get the nerf bat so say bye bye to your fotm

goa cant do anything...

and think u totaly missunderstood my post...

i dont kare rlly...

but to make u happy and talk bout the post...

if DF get nerfed... lot ov inf will repesc to slash... maybe dw slash...
and u know... that will hurt u more since we still have higer ws than sb and a bonus vs armour...

but rlly dont care... daok is nothing more than a "wait" till new game goes gold

 

[lorric]

Originally posted by Silenzio
goa cant do anything...

and think u totaly missunderstood my post...

i dont kare rlly...

but to make u happy and talk bout the post...

if DF get nerfed... lot ov inf will repesc to slash... maybe dw slash...
and u know... that will hurt u more since we still have higer ws than sb and a bonus vs armour...

but rlly dont care... daok is nothing more than a "wait" till new game goes gold

Bring on fully debuffed slash infs please

 

[Haldar]

Originally posted by donttouchpoopy
Because this was a programming mistake across two classes that causes realm imbalance.

It wasn't by design or intent - it was never meant to be as it was. Mythic have clearly stated this.

It was simply correcting a programming error.

kk good. agree.

so please stop whine about savages then - they are powerful "by design".

But mythic reduced their power some time ago - which means that design concepts may change over time.

I hope that same goes for Dragonfang and/or Alb stealthers in general...someday. And will humbly continue to work towards it.

 

[-RG-Jaond]

Originally posted by donttouchpoopy
/yawn

You sur e you don't have this on a macro to spam - perhaps replacing your old doublefrost button.

keep wishing Jaond....

DO YOU HAVE FACT AND HARD DATA TO BACK THAT UP???!!!

Whos the spammer again?

 

[Zoldot]

Originaly posetd my donttouchpoopy!

which is exactly why I'm raising this - there are lots of 'feelings' that are based on no fact whatsoever, just things people don't like, are jealous of, haven't understood etc. If you have an argument base it on fact, not 'waaa 2.5 spec points, unfair' - theres a clearly stated reason for this. You think its wrong - make a case and back it up.


_________________________________________________

Same thing whit SB before 1.62 then.
based on no fact whatsoever. If you have an argument base it on fact, not "waa higher dmg, unfair"
Infils had DF,better RA, 2.5 specc pts at that time so there is no way you prooves Sb was overpowered because of mroe dmg when infils had so much other goodies.
So back with SB's dmg since you clearly hadn't proof that SB was overpowered! so YOU FIX PROOF THAT SB WAS OVERPOWERED THEN WE FIX THAT INFIL IS NOW. kk?
idiot.
so infact sb should never have been nerfed.

So you are happy if they bring sb's dmg back to before 1.62 then poopy? ah that nice. since you have to proove sb were overpowered before nerf.

Your'e so funneh poopy.
get the hell outta here. your'e argument didn't hold in this thread.

I know you always will come with new stupid arguments.
I can't wait till Sb get back there dmg

 

[BidAccount]

Originally posted by -RG-Jaond
DO YOU HAVE FACT AND HARD DATA TO BACK THAT UP???!!!

Whos the spammer again?

That would be a hypothesis based on your posting history.

One day when I'm really really bored I my go back and count.

 

[BidAccount]

Originally posted by Zoldot
Originaly posetd my donttouchpoopy!

which is exactly why I'm raising this - there are lots of 'feelings' that are based on no fact whatsoever, just things people don't like, are jealous of, haven't understood etc. If you have an argument base it on fact, not 'waaa 2.5 spec points, unfair' - theres a clearly stated reason for this. You think its wrong - make a case and back it up.


_________________________________________________

Same thing whit SB before 1.62 then.
based on no fact whatsoever. If you have an argument base it on fact, not "waa higher dmg, unfair"
Infils had DF,better RA, 2.5 specc pts at that time so there is no way you prooves Sb was overpowered because of mroe dmg when infils had so much other goodies.
So back with SB's dmg since you clearly hadn't proof that SB was overpowered! so YOU FIX PROOF THAT SB WAS OVERPOWERED THEN WE FIX THAT INFIL IS NOW. kk?
idiot.
so infact sb should never have been nerfed.

So you are happy if they bring sb's dmg back to before 1.62 then poopy? ah that nice. since you have to proove sb were overpowered before nerf.

Your'e so funneh poopy.
get the hell outta here. your'e argument didn't hold in this thread.

I know you always will come with new stupid arguments.
I can't wait till Sb get back there dmg

Actually zoldie if you check the facts on that mythic themselves stated the damage on LA was far higher than it should be due to a programming error.

Sorry, but no cookie for you this time. Nice try though. Come back again when you have a point.

 

[-RG-Jaond]

Originally posted by donttouchpoopy
That would be a hypothesis based on your posting history.

One day when I'm really really bored I my go back and count.

donttouchpoopy (6.24 posts per day)

-RG-Jaond (2.65 posts per day)

Who's the spammer?

 

[BidAccount]

Originally posted by -RG-Jaond
donttouchpoopy (6.24 posts per day)

-RG-Jaond (2.65 posts per day)

Who's the spammer?

Woot!

Yay - I am king spam monkey.

 

[Zoldot]

Originally posted by donttouchpoopy
Actually zoldie if you check the facts on that mythic themselves stated the damage on LA was far higher than it should be due to a programming error.

Sorry, but no cookie for you this time. Nice try though. Come back again when you have a point.

so it was higher then it should be?
Infil DF is better hten it should be etc then I can say.
what you mean programming error?
they like fucked up in the previous patch or what? lol?
so if they happens to give infils 10 k dmg then they fix it like 1 year after? lol? they made the SB's that good, it was to good and htey nerfed it, now infils is too good they should nerf it.

 

[BidAccount]

Originally posted by Zoldot
so it was higher then it should be?
Infil DF is better hten it should be etc then I can say.
what you mean programming error?
they like fucked up in the previous patch or what? lol?
so if they happens to give infils 10 k dmg then they fix it like 1 year after? lol? they made the SB's that good, it was to good and htey nerfed it, now infils is too good they should nerf it.

No zoldie - you don't understand do you.

LA damage was due to a programming mistake. Mythic made a statement on that. It was not meant to be that high and it was fixed. Go the herald site and look at the past notes.

Infils are as they are by design. Mythic intrended them to have 2.5 spec points and made a statement on that too. Dragonfang started life as a parry reactionery and was changed to evade - so that is by intentional design too.

Now I know English is not your first language but you should be able to get the general idea. LA damage = programming mistake that was fixed. Infils = designed that way by intent.

 

[behatch]

Originally posted by donttouchpoopy
No zoldie - you don't understand do you.

LA damage was due to a programming mistake. Mythic made a statement on that. It was not meant to be that high and it was fixed. Go the herald site and look at the past notes.

Infils are as they are by design. Mythic intrended them to have 2.5 spec points and made a statement on that too. Dragonfang started life as a parry reactionery and was changed to evade - so that is by intentional design too.

Now I know English is not your first language but you should be able to get the general idea. LA damage = programming mistake that was fixed. Infils = designed that way by intent.

too bad infils will have to be reprogrammed because the design by intent is too strong

 

[BidAccount]

Originally posted by behatch
too bad infils will have to be reprogrammed because the design by intent is too strong

Ah but thats a different basis.

Left Axe was a known programming error that was exploited.

In mythics eyes infiltrators are working as intended and designed UNLESS you can prove otherwise. And I've not seen a lot of that going on so my money is on them being pretty safe.

Test patch 1.66g(?) and sorry guys - infils not mentioned once yet. Poor Jaond will just have to keep pressing his mindless 'nerf df' button for a while longer.

 

[Zoldot]

eh so it was nto ment to be that high? they did it to high or wasnt ment to be that high? so it was higher then when they decided how high it should be? if someone i so stupid and make an idiotic mistake and make it better hten it should be? lol then they should fix it immidiately idiots.
however i dont see it as a programmer error even if htey say so, they just say so so ppl aint gonna get so angry about the nerf
if sb was nerfed then infils should be nerfed.
as sb's were nerfed not fixed, since they had it 1 year. so if infils happens to get 10 k dmg then they fix it in a year? k that nice.
now give sb's dmg back unless you prove else. or nerf infils.
I dont give a shit about the fix, it wasnt a fix it was a nerf. and none prooved they needed nerf.

either give sb dmg back or nerf infils is the fairest. atleast to your logical poopy. but imo sb should absolutely beennerfed but not that much... then it would probably be n problem but now they need to either nerf infils or boost sb a little

 

[BidAccount]

You don't get it do you zoldie - ask the other SB players.

Mythic stated it was a mistake - hell read the 1.62 patch notes. They're a scaled down version of the statement. They even went into a little more detail with the Midgard Team Leader on the vn boards giving the history of the changes and how the error came about.

So Left Axe pre 1.62 was a programming error that effectively doubled the style bonus. Yes it should have been fixed immediately, but it wasn't - hence the resentment from SB/zerkers for the change, and resentment from Albs/Hibs for having to put up with it for so long.

Infiltrators were designed this way. Mythic views them as working as intended. If you disagree thats fine - but if you want it changed then you'll have to prove they're not.

So SBs - not nerfed, but left Axe fixed. This is how it was meant to look 12 months ago.