Assasin Survey

Driwen · Oct 21, 2003

Love/nerf given comes from convincing mythic that they need to check a certain class, hell mythic gave the order to savage tl to check their damage output. So you dont need logs to prove to mythic that they need to check some class out, just check rps per week listen to whines and listen to reason.
Also you dont need tests to see wether a class is most likely overpowered, you can do that with models. In other words check how much SB's/infils have in common and then check wether the pro's of one out weigh the pro's of the other, if it doesnt than one is stronger than the other and might have to be changed.
Besides all of this I have the strong feeling that with anything we actually do you will cry about how wrong it is. We log our fights, you will say the enemy's are to weak and that you need their stats. If we would set up a test you will find something to whine about (yes have seen infils do this). Mythic doesnt need logs to start looking at a class, but they do need it to prove a class is overpowered. However on US servers with TL tools they can do those tests better, hell having pendragon helps alot.

Besides all this if hunter TL hasnt stopped testing his hunter vs assassin balance yet, there might be a whole different change coming. But this is besides the discussion wether you actually need real logs for to have a discussion wether a class is overpowered.

And about you being FOTM, you are. Every person who hides his character when the class has it tough and who digs it up when it gets severe loving in some way(getting their direct opponent nerfed is loving), means that they play their class because they like to own people and less about enjoying their class. Unless off course your class is so gimped it can not do anything, but that was not a problem for scouts pre 1.62 so certainly not for infils. Dont mention running unbuffed as you can ask buffs from your fellow infils or you can run unbuffed in odins and avoid MG's or just get a guildgroup and run unstealthed.

BidAccount · Oct 21, 2003

Driwen

Yes you have a point - certain things will trigger a review. But you can be sure as anything that cold hard data is used to as part of the review.

Models may help - but the models have already been tested for ns/sb/infil which is what created this setup when the 2.5 spec etc were introduced. Some things have changed since - but LA is a fix and the models were introduced with the correct damage levels in mind.

Tests are essential - and both you and I know mythic carries them out both directly and indirectly before changes are implemented. The don't need them to start looking certainly, but they will get them before they finish

The hunter tl tests were interesting - but a little incomplete. Should have been testing hunter v all 3 assassin classes, then do the same thing with rangers and scouts.

Call me what you want - its laughable really. I played for a while but got tired of 'leave atk, get ganked by 2-4 sbs', repeat *3/4 before going to do something fun. Thats what it was all about - is what I am doing fun. If no, then do something else. Pre 1.62 Left Axe mechanics made rvr unpleasant for a significant number of people - the mistake had to be fixed.

As for buffs - I did a check the other night around amg. Less than half were buffed. There are not as many buffed infils and bbs as you think there are. As for Odin's - did that for a while too. Unbuffed NS v Infil was a lot closer - win some/lose some. Was Ok because no SBs around. But now you get large ns/ranger stelthzergs camping amg so i don't go there much anymore.

And I think the scouts would disagree with you about pre 1.62 - you had only a few playing, but a lot more have come back (plus rangers and hunters) now.

Like I said - if I were true fotm I'd have bought a SB and bb on ebay, be whining like hell about it now, and have levelled/bought a bd and savage. But seeing as I spend as much time pve and crafting as rvr over 4 characters atm you can make your own decision. Tbh I don't care.

Zoldot · Oct 21, 2003

the situation atm.

http://www.fanta.dk/showmovie.asp?mid=E2C03AF0-3159-497E-8951-B61AD840B417

For you poopy! so you wont forget the moment when you were 1337 and owned everyone and everyone else was dumb who thought infils needed a nerf.

Driwen · Oct 21, 2003

Models may help - but the models have already been tested for ns/sb/infil which is what created this setup when the 2.5 spec etc were introduced. Some things have changed since - but LA is a fix and the models were introduced with the correct damage levels in mind.

mythic might have overlooked the effect of an easier to pull off stun and 2 secs longer than the other assassins have. So providing data on the difference in difficulty might be enough to make them smell the coffee, besides all the whines will do that aswell

. So then they will do tests and see what should be changed.

And about the hunter TL tests, yes they are incomplete and as I said if he hasnt stopped doing them (in other words did a complete hunter vs assassin test) it might involve some changes in archers/hunter/assassins. I dont think he stopped myself, he just stopped posting them on the public boards as he doesnt like it there. It took the hunters on the boards months of demanding/requesting something off him to get a few threads by him and he got immediatly flamed with the test thread so I think he wont bother posting anything on public boards. However they might be on pendragon private board or on some board between hunter TL his testers and mythic. But he might have stopped bothering at all.

about fotm issue infils are fotm atm in the stealth classes, you started playing one when they became it so you are one. It doesnt mean you are a bad player, it does mean that chances are high when infils have it a little tough you will drop him again. Besides it would be nice to know who your infil actually is

behatch · Oct 21, 2003

Originally posted by Zoldot
the situation atm.

http://www.fanta.dk/showmovie.asp?mid=E2C03AF0-3159-497E-8951-B61AD840B417

For you poopy! so you wont forget the moment when you were 1337 and owned everyone and everyone else was dumb who thought infils needed a nerf.

looool

BidAccount · Oct 21, 2003

Originally posted by driwen

mythic might have overlooked the effect of an easier to pull off stun and 2 secs longer than the other assassins have. So providing data on the difference in difficulty might be enough to make them smell the coffee, besides all the whines will do that aswell . So then they will do tests and see what should be changed.

And about the hunter TL tests, yes they are incomplete and as I said if he hasnt stopped doing them (in other words did a complete hunter vs assassin test) it might involve some changes in archers/hunter/assassins. I dont think he stopped myself, he just stopped posting them on the public boards as he doesnt like it there. It took the hunters on the boards months of demanding/requesting something off him to get a few threads by him and he got immediatly flamed with the test thread so I think he wont bother posting anything on public boards. However they might be on pendragon private board or on some board between hunter TL his testers and mythic. But he might have stopped bothering at all.

about fotm issue infils are fotm atm in the stealth classes, you started playing one when they became it so you are one. It doesnt mean you are a bad player, it does mean that chances are high when infils have it a little tough you will drop him again. Besides it would be nice to know who your infil actually is [/B]

My infil? When I hit rr5 I'll let you know. About 300k off that yet tho.

Mythic may have overlooked that - but its unlikely as I believe dragonfang started life as parry reactionery and was changed to evade. Would be nice to have it as a parry reactionery though - and you'd make a lot of mercs very happy.

Zoldie - does your mother feed you cat food and keep you in a box or something? That or you're on strong prescription drugs are the only explanations I can offer.

behatch · Oct 21, 2003

Originally posted by donttouchpoopy
My infil? When I hit rr5 I'll let you know. About 300k off that yet tho.

Mythic may have overlooked that - but its unlikely as I believe dragonfang started life as parry reactionery and was changed to evade. Would be nice to have it as a parry reactionery though - and you'd make a lot of mercs very happy.

Zoldie - does your mother feed you cat food and keep you in a box or something? That or you're on strong prescription drugs are the only explanations I can offer.

Oo that narrows your infil down to 100 rr4's ^^

jua- · Oct 21, 2003

Originally posted by Haldar
well it also depends a lot on the styles each is using (to hit bonuses nd i am not talking about the high to hit bonus df has thats after you evade) and thats way more important that the facts you mentioned here...

plz explain. i did not understand ur words.

.

I am saying that the higher to hit bonus a style has, the less chances the oponent has to evade em. For example the infs with high cs use garrote achil anytime styles. Those styles have low to hit bonus and achil has medium therefor they are more likely to get evaded. On the other hand sbs play with other styles many of em have medium to hit bonus so they are harder for us to evade. Thats why many of us go 50 dw (medium to hit bonus)

if you shift + i you just see either low /medium /high
same goes for dmg low medium high. For dmg we know that even tho 2 styles have high dmg, it doesnt nessacery means that they do same dmg..(hammstring does more than dragonfang) thats why i strongly believe that this applies to the to hit bonus also. For example it could be that achil (medium to hit bonus) is worst than dual shadows (medium tohit bonus)

behatch · Oct 21, 2003

NERF INFILRATORS

BidAccount · Oct 21, 2003

Originally posted by behatch
NERF INFILRATORS

Are you the love child of jaond and nalistah?

-RG-Jaond · Oct 21, 2003

:wub:

Whisperess · Oct 21, 2003

Originally posted by jua-
I am saying that the higher to hit bonus a style has, the less chances the oponent has to evade em. For example the infs with high cs use garrote achil anytime styles. Those styles have low to hit bonus and achil has medium therefor they are more likely to get evaded.

I'm saying you're wrong. To-hit only affect direct misses not parry, block or evade; same as +defence doesn't make you evade more, just increase the chance of an enemy direct miss.

Ironfoot · Oct 21, 2003

Originally posted by donttouchpoopy
You don't get it do you zoldie - ask the other SB players.

Mythic stated it was a mistake - hell read the 1.62 patch notes. They're a scaled down version of the statement. They even went into a little more detail with the Midgard Team Leader on the vn boards giving the history of the changes and how the error came about.

So Left Axe pre 1.62 was a programming error that effectively doubled the style bonus. Yes it should have been fixed immediately, but it wasn't - hence the resentment from SB/zerkers for the change, and resentment from Albs/Hibs for having to put up with it for so long.

Infiltrators were designed this way. Mythic views them as working as intended. If you disagree thats fine - but if you want it changed then you'll have to prove they're not.

So SBs - not nerfed, but left Axe fixed. This is how it was meant to look 12 months ago.

You need to read the notes where they actually changed LA making it better. They actually stated that due to the penalty associated with having a weapon in you left hand they increased LA style damage to compensate. It is actually stated in the patch notes for that cycle.

Why do you think the zerker TA blew a gasket over this affair ? If you believe everything mythic says then you must have touched that poopy and gotten shit in your eyes.

LA damage at the time was there by design and not a coding error. If you actually think the devs / coders are stupid enough to leave a coding error of that magnitude in the game for over a year you are a special kind of retard. Please do explain why for the months after LA damage was increased there were no complaints ?

The patch notes for 1.62 are bullshit, they had to completly rework the description of a subset of characters (light tanks) in order to compensate for the nerf.

jua- · Oct 22, 2003

Originally posted by Whisperess
I'm saying you're wrong. To-hit only affect direct misses not parry, block or evade; same as +defence doesn't make you evade more, just increase the chance of an enemy direct miss.

there was a question about evades towards goa , they asnwered and said that styles DO affect evades.........................................................

Driwen · Oct 22, 2003

Originally posted by jua-
there was a question about evades towards goa , they asnwered and said that styles DO affect evades.........................................................

and just like the grabbag saying that there is a speedcap for casters?

Goa probably got that info from mythic who tends to be only right half of the time on questions about how their game works. Its best to just do tests and see wether it affects the game or not instead of asking goa or mythic

.

Haldar · Oct 22, 2003

Originally posted by jua-
I am saying that the higher to hit bonus a style has, the less chances the oponent has to evade em. For example the infs with high cs use garrote achil anytime styles. Those styles have low to hit bonus and achil has medium therefor they are more likely to get evaded. On the other hand sbs play with other styles many of em have medium to hit bonus so they are harder for us to evade. Thats why many of us go 50 dw (medium to hit bonus)

if you shift + i you just see either low /medium /high
same goes for dmg low medium high. For dmg we know that even tho 2 styles have high dmg, it doesnt nessacery means that they do same dmg..(hammstring does more than dragonfang) thats why i strongly believe that this applies to the to hit bonus also. For example it could be that achil (medium to hit bonus) is worst than dual shadows (medium tohit bonus)

Silenzio · Oct 22, 2003

mmm even if dual shadow is DW style so even good for merc...
but u listed la style as sb... (wile aviable to berz too ) so i live it

but *damn sleepy*

u see how sb r lucky? so many styles to choose!!!

infil got nearly none out ov cs...

btw havok+thyr's fury

*yawn*

*goin bk to sleep on my office desk*

AbPoon · Oct 22, 2003

Originally posted by Silenzio

u see how sb r lucky? so many styles to choose!!!

infil got nearly none out ov cs...

btw havok+thyr's fury

Its not quantity its quality, lots of styles are not better then one style that will batter everyone else into the dust, Dragonfang ^^

Haldar · Oct 22, 2003

and lots of styles eat qbar space too

BidAccount · Oct 22, 2003

Originally posted by Ironfoot
You need to read the notes where they actually changed LA making it better. They actually stated that due to the penalty associated with having a weapon in you left hand they increased LA style damage to compensate. It is actually stated in the patch notes for that cycle.

Why do you think the zerker TA blew a gasket over this affair ? If you believe everything mythic says then you must have touched that poopy and gotten shit in your eyes.

LA damage at the time was there by design and not a coding error. If you actually think the devs / coders are stupid enough to leave a coding error of that magnitude in the game for over a year you are a special kind of retard. Please do explain why for the months after LA damage was increased there were no complaints ?

The patch notes for 1.62 are bullshit, they had to completly rework the description of a subset of characters (light tanks) in order to compensate for the nerf.

Yes - but there were further sets of notes explaining that whilst making it better they had made a mistake. Damage was increased by approximately double what was intended. It was a coding error believe it or not - Mythic have stated it, the Midgard TL has been given a history of how it happened. So sorry ironfoot, it is widely known and accepted - programming cockup. No complaints - HAHAHAHAHAHA - you must be blind if you think there were no complaints. There were constant complaints about it.

The zerker TL is a perfect example of how not to handle a situation. He ranted and raved and demanded a damage increase. He produced no valid argument other than 'we want more damage' and no data that supported it. he didn't get what he wanted so stamped his feet and threw a tnatrum = ex zerker tl.

Lol - So now I see your argument - the patch notes are wrong, the company writing and controlling the game is wrong, the hard data collected to support the change is wrong and you, with nothing, are right. Ooooookaaaayyy.......

Taken from:

http://vnboards.ign.com/message.asp?topic=58249949&page=2

(note - for those who don't know, these are Mythic staff - producers and developers)

"Mackey was not here when the LA correction came through. He said he believes that the Left Axe correction was a lot of the reason he was hired. Rob, Matt, and Mark were shocked that the bugged LA had been in for so long. No one at Mythic was high enough up the food chain who was watching this stuff to bring it to the producer's attention to get it fixed. They needed someone there who was suffiicently senior that could not be ignored when they bring the issue up."

AbPoon · Oct 22, 2003

If you belive it was a programming mistake that made it through all testing and lasted for nearly a year then your a tool, Mythic just dont want to admit they fucked it up and never got round to fixing it.

BidAccount · Oct 22, 2003

Originally posted by AbPoon
If you belive it was a programming mistake that made it through all testing and lasted for nearly a year then your a tool, Mythic just dont want to admit they fucked it up and never got round to fixing it.

If you choose to bury your head in the samd thats fine with me - its gone and its never coming back. End of story.

Silenzio · Oct 22, 2003

Originally posted by AbPoon
Its not quantity its quality, lots of styles are not better then one style that will batter everyone else into the dust, Dragonfang ^^

think u looking too much straight df =)

first is only 1 style...
second is not reusable(better us harmsting on an allready stunenc char)
third not that hard to evade (not talking ov Evade lvl but movin arroun)

btw with my sb i roam n kill sometimes get dfed... aye...
but some ov that time i still kill the target...

btw diamondback is nearly effective as df and need only lvl25 pierce... wonder why so rarely a ns try to stun me ;P

AbPoon · Oct 22, 2003

Originally posted by donttouchpoopy
If you choose to bury your head in the samd thats fine with me - its gone and its never coming back. End of story.

Whats not coming back? has something gone?

jua- · Oct 22, 2003

the in game information for garrote says low to hit i think, to be honest i know goa is wrong sometimes but i d rather see the test results first

Ironfoot · Oct 22, 2003

Originally posted by AbPoon
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by donttouchpoopy
If you choose to bury your head in the samd thats fine with me - its gone and its never coming back. End of story.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Whats not coming back? has something gone?

Think his mother has gone to the local whore house to get another hit of crack.

Assasin Survey

Driwen

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