anyone think pure tanks are gonna be TOO invincible?! caster nerfs ahead :(

[Danya]

Snares are already on timer, just they don't seem to be working properly atm. The fix will help against chanter pets though. Woot.
Anyway, as said, don't assume you're gimped till you try it.

 

[SilverHood]

tried it, can't wait for caster nerfs

 

[klavrynd]

if you think casters are so gimped explain why they tend to die first? novelty value? sheer sadism? easy rp? or maybe because if they stay alive you die faster then getting hit by 4 tanks ...

rather then "tanks are oober, we're worth shit now" try educating your tanks to be the meatshield they are and protect your ass so the rp will flow in

 

[Esoteric]

Tanks will be able to do their job now.

Its fairly good for the game imo.

Don't go rolling a tonne of tanks play the char you feel most at home with. You can never really rely on and play the dice that you're char is gonna be uborz.

Imo Goa and mythic have played things right. At least we have stuff to do in our end game most other mmorpg's have sod all.

With SI etc and future patches this game is gonna be well worth playing.

 

[old.windforce]

ever tried to find level 30-35 party with tank now a days?
they are gimped.
only reason i play my tank a lot is that i don't wanna go the complete exp tredmill again to make a cabalist or an infiltrator

i am making the best of my tank by leveling a speed bot so i can at least catch someone who is running away from me

tanks are for the time i play daoc
it's about time something changes

if you wanna whine go vnboards

 

[PJS]

why mages die first

Its simple really, target the easiest to kill first NOT the most deadly, (they just happen to be one and the same at the moment). If youre a tank stuck to a mage chances are he dies before you do. If youre a tank stuck to a tank its mostly out of your hands who dies first.
If tanks only took a couple of hits but mages were like hitting a brick wall everyone would go after tanks first (for quick easy rps) even though mages are the real threat.

 

[Flimgoblin]

Re: Learn to live with it

Originally posted by Molten Lava

(some examples: hey nobody plays cabby and friar lets give them some nice new spells, uberdots and buffs: people massively start cabbies/friars atm. Hey all people tend to play Assasins because they are so uber: in a few patches (part of) that uberness is taken away from them.....it's Mythic's way of balancing the game)

They changed friars a bit I'll grant you, but cabalists were hardly touched

just someone noticed that they were really quite good... and started killing tanglers..

Everyone around noticed and went crazy on a cabalist-making-spree.

 

[Flimgoblin]

Originally posted by Kagato.


That snare is a 10 level cost RA which few tanks will bother with except those with a really big grudge against skalds, and even fewer tanks can afford with are generally poor RP income when we are having to spend 23 levels or even 17 soon level to by IP, Purge, Detirmination or any other RA which we NEED to survive as these are our supposed classes fixes, where as all the power you casters have you get through innate class strengths in RvR without having to earn them with RPS and then buy them like we have too.

Oh how the mighty have fallen.

14 cost actually it's even worse than you make it sound...

still getting it though it's annoying to sprint your entire endurance bar to make it to a caster on 1/4 hp for them to turn round and sprint off into the distance.
It's also nice for stopping enemy tanks doing the same to my casters

 

[Flimgoblin]

Originally posted by old.Charonel

<Red Dragons of Wrath>
[Exal] (Hib) Charonel TheTraitor, 40th lvl Elf Mana Eldritch
[Exal] (Hib) Arrowshot DeathRain, 24th lvl Lurikeen Ranger
[Exal] (Hib) Portable Apoclypse, 15th lvl Midget light chanter

<Creatures of The Night>
[Pryd] (Alb) Charonel Cliodna lvl 25 Charming Minstrel.

There's a simple way to quell your fears about tanks - roll one

 

[Flimgoblin]

Originally posted by Archeon

Either way, the main feature of the upcoming patch (the one i think your talking about) is the pure tank base dmg increase, which personally makes sense to me. Afterall as the name suggests they are pure tanks, with no hybrid ability what-so-ever.

As far as i can tell making them hit 25% harder than hybrid tanks is hardly going to effect you killing them at clipping distance.

.

there is no such upgrade

All the 'pure tank loving' is:

fixed parry/block/evade (it currently divides your chance to parry/block by the number of people in the enemy group ... whetehr they're attacking you or on the other side of the zone)

reduced cost on purge (from 10 to 4, since a tank without purge is free RP)
reduced cost on IP (from 14 to 8 , still need to spend 9 on FA2 - so it's from 23 to 17)
reduced cost on determination from 1 3 6 10 14 to 1 2 3 6 10

Prevent Flight realm ability (14 points), 1/3 of your rear-hits on someone will proc a half-speed snare.

So, high RR tanks get to buy something other than purge/IP and they get to buy a realm ability that noone seems to want on the US servers

Oh there's also spellcrafting which means that instead of having 26% resistance to heat,cold,energy,body
you can have 26% resistance to
heat,cold,energy,body,spirit,matter,crush,slash,thrust

(the hitting 25% harder than hybrids is true already: check an armsman's weaponskill (or a hero) compared to a paladin with the same spec/stats (or a champ) - it'll be around 30% higher, same with hp)

 

[Flimgoblin]

Originally posted by daphatfriar
Stopped playing my armsman at 36 full time and played him part time until 43 when i got pretty bored. Is getting to the stage in RvR where if u cant slam no-one really needs you as your damage output is so poor you need shed loads of hit points to kill anyone at all. Have to say (and I'm not blowing my own trumpet here by any means) that as my Friar I'd fancy my chances 1v1 with any pure tank my level which is patently stupid as why be a pure melee character if he's not even the best at what he does? Does a cleric out-nuke a mage? No! So why should hybrid tank beat a true tank? He should only be able do this either by kiting or by using his class abilities better...

a friar might beat an unbuffed armsman

a buffed armsman will slaughter a friar

 

[Flimgoblin]

Originally posted by Danyan
Snares are already on timer, just they don't seem to be working properly atm. The fix will help against chanter pets though. Woot.
Anyway, as said, don't assume you're gimped till you try it.

snares aren't on a timer and aren't flagged to be put on a timer anywhere in the near future (at least not in any patch notes I've seen on the herald...)

What they _do_ fix is that your 40% snare at the moment starts off at 40%... after however many seconds it starts increasing till it roots you then 'pop' disappears.

This is the wrong way around it's supposed to go 40% slowly reducing down to 0%.

(thats the advantage of snare - it breaks from damage but is repeatable)

 

[Kagato.]

Ah 14 points even ? Indeed worse but its also good for stopping annoying skalds you only ever see the back off as there running away.

However im pretty sure I read that its going to be put onto a 1 minute timer somewhere.

What gets me is these are just mythic budget fixes all costing realm levels so only old tanks already heavy into rvr can get them, it fixes non of the base flaws with the classes to start with, but thats just my pet hate with the fixes.

a friar might beat an unbuffed armsman

Armsman wear plate, friars are crush damage, its quite likely if they land the right styles and use the haste, and have there buffs up.
It would be an interesting fight non the less, can't wait for /duel

 

[Flimgoblin]

Originally posted by Kagato.


However im pretty sure I read that its going to be put onto a 1 minute timer somewhere.

probably one of the VN dev boards threads this fellow has been reading too much of... (it'll be someone calling 'nerf' and not a real fix - I've read nothing of the sort in the patch notes)

Budget fix is about right it's really annoying to have a stupid once every 2m nuke instead of decent styles...


A friar is commonly seen to 'beat pure tanks!' because they're self-buffed...

a buffed tank will do far better than a buffed friar (because the tank gains so much more from it)

However it's that much harder to get buffs as a tank (and the friar can heal too... and sprint for a long time... etc. )

 

[Bleri McThrust]

Originally posted by klavrynd
rather then "tanks are oober, we're worth shit now" try educating your tanks to be the meatshield they are and protect your ass so the rp will flow in

No ffs 50 levels of playing a char and then all they are good for is standing back with shield out next to a caster or clearing the way for casters to get thru

No way....

Roll on patch. Small fixes to improve the tanks life.

 

[Bleri McThrust]

Originally posted by Fingoniel


However it's that much harder to get buffs as a tank

Being a tank in a group gets depressing when you all you tend to hear is buff this caster this way that caster that way et etc. Got any buffs left ? Nope. Oh well dont worry about the tanks just keep us alive.

 

[Bleri McThrust]

Originally posted by wiccy
Tanks will be able to do their job now.

Its fairly good for the game imo.

Don't go rolling a tonne of tanks play the char you feel most at home with. You can never really rely on and play the dice that you're char is gonna be uborz.

Imo Goa and mythic have played things right. At least we have stuff to do in our end game most other mmorpg's have sod all.

With SI etc and future patches this game is gonna be well worth playing.

Hooray and hallelujah

 

[Arnor]

Its simple really, target the easiest to kill first NOT the most deadly, (they just happen to be one and the same at the moment). If youre a tank stuck to a mage chances are he dies before you do. If youre a tank stuck to a tank its mostly out of your hands who dies first.
If tanks only took a couple of hits but mages were like hitting a brick wall everyone would go after tanks first (for quick easy rps) even though mages are the real threat.

Ehm, try playing with someone other than total noobs for once.

I just love it when 3-4tanks stick me and start hacking loose, while our rm's pick em off one by one

Cant remember the last time i fought someone who ignored the tanks and went for the mages, like ppl who know what the hell they are doing do.

You kill off the important classes first, tanks you save till the end.

 

[Arnor]

I see noone has mentioned the fact that outright resisted spells are going to increase drastically in the upcoming patches

We'll its about fecking time, the times I've resisted spells from equal cons since march can be counted on 3hands


Cant wait till they fix chance to break through bt too :>


I can already hear the whinings

 

[old.Charonel]

Originally posted by Fingoniel
What they _do_ fix is that your 40% snare at the moment starts off at 40%... after however many seconds it starts increasing till it roots you then 'pop' disappears.

This is the wrong way around it's supposed to go 40% slowly reducing down to 0%.

(thats the advantage of snare - it breaks from damage but is repeatable)

you sure your not mistaking it with snare poison? because i've kited people with snare DD before and never seen the speed reduction alter whatsoever from the 40% its' supposed to be, it just lasts 30 seconds then all of a sudden they're back at full speed, doesnt slow you to a halt at the end etc... like snare poison does...

edit, just thought, that's with the mana eld snare DD, have no idea what it's like being hit by anyone elses snare DD, inc chanter pet's etc...

 

[old.Icebreaker]

This is a Team based Game. And there is 3 different Tanks around.
Pure Offensive Tanks, Hybrid and full Defence Tanks. The first 2 are primary here to kill every mage in sight.

But the defensive one is there to do Guard/intercept the mages.
And ofcourse to slam inc Tanks.After the evade/block/parry fix the guard/intercept thingie will work alot better.
Atm Mages cant cast if they get attacked and the Tank blocks for him but that will be fixed too.

Not only Tanks that get loving

Just get a S/S Tank Pet


------------------------------
Icebreaker <Celtic Fist>

 

[Arnor]

or a slambot as I like to call it ^^

 

[old.TeaSpoon]

Read through the first 2 pages of the thread and it looks interesting...

So casters now dont like it since they cant solo pure tanks? Which classes CAN a caster solo at full range? Quite a few im sure

 

[Nattrún]

Originally posted by Bleri McThrust


Being a tank in a group gets depressing when you all you tend to hear is buff this caster this way that caster that way et etc. Got any buffs left ? Nope. Oh well dont worry about the tanks just keep us alive.

Um.

My alt is a Mend/Aug-spec healer(though admittedly not terribly high-level), and I always buff the tanks first and foremost - casters usually get Po* and possibly a Con buff, and that's it. They wouldn't need strength buffs and the like, now would they?
Where did you say you played again? Albion, is it? Maybe you should come to Midgard, where buffers buff sensibly.


--
Náttrún Bergsveinsdóttir, kobold Skald of 39 seasons -- Excalibur.
"Come back here and let me DD you ag-- ow!"

 

[Novamir]

Originally posted by old.Charonel


you sure your not mistaking it with snare poison? because i've kited people with snare DD before and never seen the speed reduction alter whatsoever from the 40% its' supposed to be, it just lasts 30 seconds then all of a sudden they're back at full speed, doesnt slow you to a halt at the end etc... like snare poison does...

edit, just thought, that's with the mana eld snare DD, have no idea what it's like being hit by anyone elses snare DD, inc chanter pet's etc...

all movement reduction effects slow down the player to a halt to the end of the effect (which is currently back to front and Mythic fix it in a subsequent patch).

regarding tanks being too powerful. we WILL be better now at killing a mage in a FG vs FG situation since all will have purge and less time in status effects. no sensible tank will get the 35% chance of snare RA, it's way overpriced. instead of that mythic should have made all melee-only chars have a 10% base passive chance of "hitting legs" and creating a snare effect.

tanks will still get owned by mages in a 1v1 situation from afar if the mage has speed (or without if mage is full DD spec and non-resist buffed tank). we will still be owned by mages and feel relatively impotent at keep takes, defences and milegate standoffs. and at the end of the day, we will still only be able to hit stuff.

i'm not moaning, i like my char and have fun with it, but a mage can do bigger and faster damage from range, instant debuff, cast effects like mez/snare, do aoe damage etcetcetc... a lot more variation. at least now tanks are improved at doing the one thing we do

 

[vintervargen]

u guys are saying that tanks "now can do their job" "now got a chance to get in range" etc etc
thats weird, cause then there is no fricking class we casters can solo.

-Ministrel/bard/skald

interrupt shouts, mezz, speed = impossible

-Scout/archer/ranger

from stealthed posision, first arrow maybe bt, 2 more then we are dead = impossible

-SB/infil/ns

haha yeah right, dead before u even can react = impossible

-other casters

sometimes, depending on if your have nearsight/pet etc

-Healer/druid/cleric

instas that interrupt, mezz, purge, instaheals = impossible

-Tanks

i have soloed paladins/armsmen/heros etc with ease... buffed/unbuffed they go down on 3-4 nukes if u catch them at 1500 range, CC em, and start nuking.

* unless they run away from u so they get too far away.
* or they use IP
* or they use FA2

or u can nuke first, then do CC/QC CC. that way u can back a bit off, BT yourself again if necessary, and now start to nuke again.

* unless they purge
* determination
* or they use IP
* or they use FA2

= impossible

so now (without some luck) there is nothing we can solo

 

[Flimgoblin]

Originally posted by old.Charonel


you sure your not mistaking it with snare poison? because i've kited people with snare DD before and never seen the speed reduction alter whatsoever from the 40% its' supposed to be, it just lasts 30 seconds then all of a sudden they're back at full speed, doesnt slow you to a halt at the end etc... like snare poison does...

edit, just thought, that's with the mana eld snare DD, have no idea what it's like being hit by anyone elses snare DD, inc chanter pet's etc...

normally you do damage and break the DD - if the snare wears off normally it can ramp up to 100% - no idea if it applies to caster snares or just poisons... (never let someone be snared long enough to see )

but it's not a nerf anyway since it changes it very little

 

[Flimgoblin]

Originally posted by vintervargen

so now (without some luck) there is nothing we can solo

lucky for you this game ain't about solo

If my tank meets a group of 8 people (with his 7 friends) he can charge forward and attack one of them, or wait back a bit and attack one.

If my wizard meets a group of 8 people he can aoe nuke them, aoe root them... or just single out one and zap them.

The effect my tank makes on the battle is fairly low - he's good at killing _one_ target quite fast.... (well he would be if I wasn't so sucky )
but my wizard has far more impact - if the enemy group is tank-heavy that root makes a difference - it'll make them use purge if they have it or it'll stick them to the spot.

A rooted tank won't hurt me and it won't be able to protect their casters. A rooted caster can't flee from our tanks immediately.

Casters in general will have far more effect on _lots_ of people than a tank, the idea of a tank is they can take some punishment and do some damage to one enemy. More than one and they're struggling to do much.

 

[vintervargen]

yes sure, i can understand that. but i mean as soon as someone targets me im dead, either the tank running at me, or an archer behind a tree or whatever.

 

[Danya]

Originally posted by Fingoniel
normally you do damage and break the DD - if the snare wears off normally it can ramp up to 100% - no idea if it applies to caster snares or just poisons... (never let someone be snared long enough to see )

but it's not a nerf anyway since it changes it very little

It's all snares.