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Tyka
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- #31
patch 1.53 -1.54 are death for mages, all types, all spell users with cloth, bye bye.
anyone think pure tanks are gonna be TOO invincible?! caster nerfs ahead :(
K
Kagato.
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- #32
awww diddums
So you die with 3 or 4 tanks beating on you ? And just how much longer does a normal tank last with 3 or 4 tanks beating on him ? Maybe an extra 4 seconds if lucky, 6 if he has IP still lol.
Thats just RvR.
So you die with 3 or 4 tanks beating on you ? And just how much longer does a normal tank last with 3 or 4 tanks beating on him ? Maybe an extra 4 seconds if lucky, 6 if he has IP still lol.
Thats just RvR.
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old.Charonel
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- #33
hehe, i dont think dying from having 4 tanks on you is exactly something to scream nerf about 
but seriously, you think we only have to get meelee resists?! BWAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHHHAHHHHHHHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHA!!!!11!!1!11
we need all the magic one's just to survive more than two nukes, we need the CC one's to be able to do anything other than get tanks run up and two hit kill us while mezzed etc... we need allt he resists you tanks need. ALL of them.
but seriously, you think we only have to get meelee resists?! BWAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHHHAHHHHHHHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHA!!!!11!!1!11
we need all the magic one's just to survive more than two nukes, we need the CC one's to be able to do anything other than get tanks run up and two hit kill us while mezzed etc... we need allt he resists you tanks need. ALL of them.
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SilverHood
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- #34
At the end of the day, a caster is there yo nuke a tank from range
If you can't keep that range without complaining about overpowered tanks, then you are playing the wrong game.
I've been a rp cow since I started my thane.
And you guys say we're gonna be overpowered because you cannot nuke us to bits anymore? I say welcome to class balancing.
No longer Dark Age of Casters, this is getting closer to being balanced.
Tanks, by definition, tank. That means taking damage... before IP and FA, i could take maybe 3-5 nukes before going down. Now its more like 6-10... if you see a tank use IP or FA, dont keep on nuking... do your CC thing and run away a bit... then start nuking
Still, might be a reason to actually play a tank these days... seeing as we're not good for much atm
If you can't keep that range without complaining about overpowered tanks, then you are playing the wrong game.
I've been a rp cow since I started my thane.
And you guys say we're gonna be overpowered because you cannot nuke us to bits anymore? I say welcome to class balancing.
No longer Dark Age of Casters, this is getting closer to being balanced.
Tanks, by definition, tank. That means taking damage... before IP and FA, i could take maybe 3-5 nukes before going down. Now its more like 6-10... if you see a tank use IP or FA, dont keep on nuking... do your CC thing and run away a bit... then start nuking
Still, might be a reason to actually play a tank these days... seeing as we're not good for much atm
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Col|
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- #35
Hehe
C'mon peeps, eveyone knows Mythic has made this game into a see-saw, one end is up and generally "wins", the other end is down and gets trampled on and generally "loses". As someone said in an earlier post, RA's were probably put in due to bad game design and a marketing ploy to keep those who had done everything in game and were getting bored. After all, Mythic make their money from the subscriptions, so to keep peoples interest for as long as possible, they chuck in these bones every now and then for the players to chew on, give it a couple more patches and it'll be all change again.
C'mon peeps, eveyone knows Mythic has made this game into a see-saw, one end is up and generally "wins", the other end is down and gets trampled on and generally "loses". As someone said in an earlier post, RA's were probably put in due to bad game design and a marketing ploy to keep those who had done everything in game and were getting bored. After all, Mythic make their money from the subscriptions, so to keep peoples interest for as long as possible, they chuck in these bones every now and then for the players to chew on, give it a couple more patches and it'll be all change again.
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Pixie.Pebr
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- #36
Again can't be arsed to read through all the whine, because again the discussion is made from the point of view that there is a one-on-one encounter (atleast it was until I stopped reading).
DAoC is not a singleplayer shoot-em up
If a class easily outdo your class one on one, then bring a friend or 50 of another class to support you and stop the bloody useless whines.
Or go play CS.
DAoC is not a singleplayer shoot-em up
If a class easily outdo your class one on one, then bring a friend or 50 of another class to support you and stop the bloody useless whines.
Or go play CS.
M
Meatballs
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- #37
err casters get nuked by other casters too dont they or am I missing something?
PvE -> levelled most of 40->50 with cabalist at tanglers, some soloing, and maybe 1 level total with a fg, and never needed IP to level before patch, dont need it after :d
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old.Charonel
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- #38
that's the problem, you can't CC these classes once the patches come in, CC is not a mezz which lasts less than 10 seconds and easily purgeable, it's not a stun which lasts less time than it takes to cast it etc...
there's NOTHING you can do, they see you at clipping range and the only way to not die is to run the other way immediately even though your class is designed with killing their in mind, THAT'S broken.
nobodies saying that owning tanks all the time is how it's supposed to work, but since they have total dominion over us in close range, it's not too much to ask that we get the same courtesy at long range (as were supposed too), a tanks gotta be stupid to just runall the way up to a caster, and would therefore deserve to die, but they'll be able to run all the way up to a caster, be practically immune to anything they can do, then kill them in two hits. go figure.
all a tank has to do to totally nullify a caster in the coming patchess is get close and /stick, that's it, practical immunity to even a quickcast pbae nuke, the stuns, the mezzes which wont last long enough etc... the interupting the caster while mezzed/stunned "feature" crap on top too makes it just futile to even try killing them...
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old.logun
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- #39
rolling a tank on prydwen albion wouldn't be a good idea. when you get to about 30-34 area you usually solo goblins inlyonesse but now hats all changed all they need is a theurgist for pbt, 2 wizzards for nukes , sorc for mez, minstrel for power regen and cleric for heals , if you start character makes sure it's one of these other wise you'll never get very far
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Archeon
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- #40
Call me slow but i just realised you were talking about the coming patches. Why exactly are you whining already? is this the new fad umung the BW community.
Screw whining when we actually get the patch, lets have a good whine now, get it out of our system then whine again in 5-6 months time when we actually get the patch :roll:
Either way, the main feature of the upcoming patch (the one i think your talking about) is the pure tank base dmg increase, which personally makes sense to me. Afterall as the name suggests they are pure tanks, with no hybrid ability what-so-ever.
As far as i can tell making them hit 25% harder than hybrid tanks is hardly going to effect you killing them at clipping distance.
Besides to the best of my knowlage all casters get a root/stun/mez/snare as a baseline spell in some line or another. If you don't use those in RvR when dueling then what do you bloody well expect? Sure they get resisted but look at me, i'm a healer i have to contend with resists and that bitch of an RA determination that cuts my already pathetic AE timer in half!
Oh and lets not forgot a large majority of a healers contribution to RvR is his uber CC abilities, atleast you can do dmg.
Think i'l stop here cause going any further will just be a waste of time, so
Stop complaining about whats going to happen and enjoy yourselfs now.
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Molten Lava
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- #41
Learn to live with it
Situation is:
Some class is overpowerd: Mythic nerfs it to death....
Some class is underpowered: Mythic will give it uber spells...
Tactic works: masses of people switch from the overpowered class to the underpowered class. Some patches ago a good nuking mage could easily take out the tanks in the game. Tanks started whining, they get 50-75% resist. Casters need 3 or 4 times the Dd's to kill tanks nowadays (which they never get off because they die in 2 hits, tanks are smart enough to get to thet casters before they get 10 dd's off) Now casters start whining so in a patch or three all casters parked their char and started a tank, Mythic thinks "hey something wrong with the caster class, tanks are overpowered, lets turn the resists on tanks down AND give casters some new uber 500+ damage DD's" and the story starts all over again.
I only play casters and I learned to live with it. Now we have a "bad" time to be caster, In a few months we get a bit more fun (assasins nerfed etc)
Just park your caster, start a tank, make the population shift to tanks and Mythic starts their stupid game again.
(some examples: hey nobody plays cabby and friar lets give them some nice new spells, uberdots and buffs: people massively start cabbies/friars atm. Hey all people tend to play Assasins because they are so uber: in a few patches (part of) that uberness is taken away from them.....it's Mythic's way of balancing the game)
Situation is:
Some class is overpowerd: Mythic nerfs it to death....
Some class is underpowered: Mythic will give it uber spells...
Tactic works: masses of people switch from the overpowered class to the underpowered class. Some patches ago a good nuking mage could easily take out the tanks in the game. Tanks started whining, they get 50-75% resist. Casters need 3 or 4 times the Dd's to kill tanks nowadays (which they never get off because they die in 2 hits, tanks are smart enough to get to thet casters before they get 10 dd's off) Now casters start whining so in a patch or three all casters parked their char and started a tank, Mythic thinks "hey something wrong with the caster class, tanks are overpowered, lets turn the resists on tanks down AND give casters some new uber 500+ damage DD's" and the story starts all over again.
I only play casters and I learned to live with it. Now we have a "bad" time to be caster, In a few months we get a bit more fun (assasins nerfed etc)
Just park your caster, start a tank, make the population shift to tanks and Mythic starts their stupid game again.
(some examples: hey nobody plays cabby and friar lets give them some nice new spells, uberdots and buffs: people massively start cabbies/friars atm. Hey all people tend to play Assasins because they are so uber: in a few patches (part of) that uberness is taken away from them.....it's Mythic's way of balancing the game)
K
klavrynd
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- #42
when the thread is about tanks vs casters it doesn't matter if casters get nuked by other casters. Tanks get hit by other tanks as well .
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Flimgoblin
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- #43
Not quite the case..
if the tank can't close to melee range the caster will win...
if there's nothing between you but a field of grass then that tank is gonna get to you... (unless you start running... now, or have a tank friend to slam/prevent flight/trip/grapple/whatever, heck have another rooter)
Course, sit on a milegate wall and that tank is screwed.
It should say something to you when standard RvR tactics are:
'mezz, ignore the tanks, kill the casters'
i.e. "tanks aren't worth bothering about"
"casters are dangerous"
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Flimgoblin
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- #44
Originally posted by old.Charonel
fa2 is ENTIRELY usable, there's this little thing called slam, use it when you reach the caster, if you are on very low health (would only happen in this patch really
sure wait ten seconds for your first aid 2 to be usable...
oh wait slam only lasts 10 seconds.
Here's something for you:
My level 40 earth wizard makes ten times the RP my level 46 mercenary does.
Enough said.
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old.willowywicca
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- #45
Just out of curiosity why does everyone assume that casters *should* be able to kill tanks solo?
And why is all of this thread treating it as tho in rvr, in every single caster vs tank fight there is no one but the 2 of you, no healers casting heals on either person, no *other* people CCing either of you.. the point of the game is not 1 vs 1 fighting, it's Realm vs Realm fights, and in a group casters can achieve a helluva lot more than any tank can, so what if they will lose a 1 vs 1 fight every 30 mins (and even that isn't as guaranteed as people are making out)?
And why is all of this thread treating it as tho in rvr, in every single caster vs tank fight there is no one but the 2 of you, no healers casting heals on either person, no *other* people CCing either of you.. the point of the game is not 1 vs 1 fighting, it's Realm vs Realm fights, and in a group casters can achieve a helluva lot more than any tank can, so what if they will lose a 1 vs 1 fight every 30 mins (and even that isn't as guaranteed as people are making out)?
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old.job
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- #46
It's not just killin that counts, casters should be stunning, to help your own tanks get to the enemy, also knocking a tank to 1/2 hp will make him run rather than attack, and don't forget a casters job is also to take out other casters, we can kill each other with ease.
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Pixie.Pebr
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- #47
Too true and that's why all these whine-threads are utterly pointless.
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old.Normengast
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- #48
Maybe Mythic should make everyone immortal so people stop complaining when they die.
Dying is what RvR is all about. Die here kill there, get the occasional RP... you know
Dying is what RvR is all about. Die here kill there, get the occasional RP... you know
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old.Noita
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- #49
I dont really think theres too much to fret about in these changes. Pure tanks needed loving from way way back and now they have got it.
Tactics and they way a caster plays need to change in order to keep up with the changes in pure melee classes.
Im VERY lucky to have an extremely faithful and very competent bodyguard when I go RvR in Mr Bodond Spinesplitter - Level 50 Shield/Hammer specc Troll warrior. Usually he is no more than a foot away from me, and it works very well, usually anything that comes anywhere near me gets slammed to fuck and back. Then between us we kill.
Obviously it doesnt work all the time, but generally its a good arrangement.
With these changes my already VERY impressive Guardian will become even more so, and should I fall beneath the blades of my enemies he will stand a greater chance of exacting revenge in my name.
Toodle pip
Tactics and they way a caster plays need to change in order to keep up with the changes in pure melee classes.
Im VERY lucky to have an extremely faithful and very competent bodyguard when I go RvR in Mr Bodond Spinesplitter - Level 50 Shield/Hammer specc Troll warrior. Usually he is no more than a foot away from me, and it works very well, usually anything that comes anywhere near me gets slammed to fuck and back. Then between us we kill.
Obviously it doesnt work all the time, but generally its a good arrangement.
With these changes my already VERY impressive Guardian will become even more so, and should I fall beneath the blades of my enemies he will stand a greater chance of exacting revenge in my name.
Toodle pip
C
censi
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- #50
yer charonal disagree with you big time there..
The pure nuke specced mages in DAOC are the deadlist killers in the game.
The damage is insane... (to insane)
sure mages are vulnerable and die fast.... but they need to lower those 500+ nukes big time
The pure nuke specced mages in DAOC are the deadlist killers in the game.
The damage is insane... (to insane)
sure mages are vulnerable and die fast.... but they need to lower those 500+ nukes big time
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Chenuba
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- #51
Exactly and to the casters whining about tanks running straight to them and try to kill them, why do you think it's so ?
Could it be because off most casterclasses being über in RvR till recently so they're the natural primary target for tanks as the most dangerous of tthe enemies?.
To be honest, casters should be happy on behalf of the tanks, now they can maybe even get to tank now and then instead of just being nuked to oblivion with 2-3 nukes.
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old.Iunliten
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- #52
First of all, give me a +26% resitance buff to melee too then.
Second swap armour for lower af?
Yellow armour I was hit for 400 damage.
Blue con armour I was hit for 600 damage.
This was against a 50 so it is not the damage range but I take 50% more damage from low AF, ask the critblades how PA damage went down with epic armour.
I have personally oneshotted orange mages who was with your theory of not needing to have good armour.
Go to BG, is it the ones with dropped armour or the ones with crafted 100% qua that is oneshotted?
Swapping to low AF is only viable because you are dead anyways
S
SilverHood
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- #53
Sammi hit me for 800 dmg the other day
even with a crit, thats still too much fo my poor thane with 1300 hps
even with a crit, thats still too much fo my poor thane with 1300 hps
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old.Charonel
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- #54
censi it's not JUST the damage reduction, if they reduced the damage yet mages still did enough to be ok then fine, would be irritating but mages would still be ok, however when they also make these classes basically immune to all our CC, debuffs, basically everything, AND reduce the damage by such a degree that we can't even kill them from clipping range, basically ever... well THAT'S what i have a problem with.
and if we get the increase in totaly resisted spell (i dont mean increased resists, i mean actuall totally resisted spells, which seems is going to happen) then i want their miss rate up too, because no way should meelee classes outdamage nukers, yet it's gonna get just like that if all the changes mythic has in mind goes ahead.
the point of this isnt wether it's bad for x class now, it's that it going to be almost useless for casters when these changes happen, even CC one's because the main classes gunning for them will be the one's that are basicaly immune to ever spell they have, and they dont have the meelee to exactly make up for that
K
Kagato.
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- #55
Wow you guys still whining about this ?
said it all earlier so not going to repeat, we'll see when the patch comes.
said it all earlier so not going to repeat, we'll see when the patch comes.
D
daphatfriar
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- #56
Stopped playing my armsman at 36 full time and played him part time until 43 when i got pretty bored. Is getting to the stage in RvR where if u cant slam no-one really needs you as your damage output is so poor you need shed loads of hit points to kill anyone at all. Have to say (and I'm not blowing my own trumpet here by any means) that as my Friar I'd fancy my chances 1v1 with any pure tank my level which is patently stupid as why be a pure melee character if he's not even the best at what he does? Does a cleric out-nuke a mage? No! So why should hybrid tank beat a true tank? He should only be able do this either by kiting or by using his class abilities better...
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Graav
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- #57
ok lets say this "amageddon of casters" as u guys foresee happens (wich I really really doubt) .... so what ?
Casters have been owning the tanks since day 1, now the balance has shifted in the tanks favour and I think its about damn time.
Tanks will no longer be free rps, a meat wall nuked into oblivion, finally tanks can actually kill in rvr, imo its great.
And if ppl start rolling tanks insted of uber nuking casters and stealthers this game will be far more interesting imo.
This resist everything u throw at them wont happen unless ure facing a rr6+ tank with uber equipment that really knows what hes doing and ure all alone.
How often do you get in that situation ?
Casters have been owning the tanks since day 1, now the balance has shifted in the tanks favour and I think its about damn time.
Tanks will no longer be free rps, a meat wall nuked into oblivion, finally tanks can actually kill in rvr, imo its great.
And if ppl start rolling tanks insted of uber nuking casters and stealthers this game will be far more interesting imo.
This resist everything u throw at them wont happen unless ure facing a rr6+ tank with uber equipment that really knows what hes doing and ure all alone.
How often do you get in that situation ?
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old.Charonel
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- #58
you do realise you basically just said that it's ok to completely unbalance the game against casters because it was completely unbalanced in their favour before?
meaning that you think the crap that archers have to put up with is just fine and dandy because they had a good run in the early days :sleeping:
sorry but if their gonna fix classes, they should do it without breaking others, not exactly too much to ask...
end line is that casters, even grouped will stand no chance of surviving since these tanks will just run up and kill them, group or not, simply because there's no way to kill them before they can do it. that's broken, just because casters could kill with impunity a few patches ago doesnt mean that they should allways die in every fight from an unkillable opponent. only way to kill one of these tanks would be to have a ton of casters all on him nuking, anything else would enable him to just run up and two hit kill the lot of them.
meaning that you think the crap that archers have to put up with is just fine and dandy because they had a good run in the early days :sleeping:
sorry but if their gonna fix classes, they should do it without breaking others, not exactly too much to ask...
end line is that casters, even grouped will stand no chance of surviving since these tanks will just run up and kill them, group or not, simply because there's no way to kill them before they can do it. that's broken, just because casters could kill with impunity a few patches ago doesnt mean that they should allways die in every fight from an unkillable opponent. only way to kill one of these tanks would be to have a ton of casters all on him nuking, anything else would enable him to just run up and two hit kill the lot of them.
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Danya
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- #59
Given you play a caster with a snare nuke that can kite red tanks to death Charonel, I'm surprised you're moaning so vociferously.
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old.Charonel
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- #60
suuuure i can do that now (on the entirely rare occasion when the said tank hasnt already been scooped up by a group ), but when half my spells get resisted completely, and the other half only do about 40% damage max, and none of my CC spells last longer than about 3 seconds you figure how long i'll survive, even in a group when these tanks just decide to run into us and two hit kill all the casters with no fear of any retribution
oh and you can't forget the fact that mythic are gonna put snare effects on the 1min timer crap... meaning that i hit them once with snare DD, they get a 40% snare, i hit them again (as you'd expect from my primary DD really) and all of a sudden they're not snared anymore and can't be for another minuit
(on the entirely rare occasion when the said tank hasnt already been scooped up by a group ), but when half my spells get resisted completely, and the other half only do about 40% damage max, and none of my CC spells last longer than about 3 seconds you figure how long i'll survive, even in a group when these tanks just decide to run into us and two hit kill all the casters with no fear of any retribution oh and you can't forget the fact that mythic are gonna put snare effects on the 1min timer crap... meaning that i hit them once with snare DD, they get a 40% snare, i hit them again (as you'd expect from my primary DD really) and all of a sudden they're not snared anymore and can't be for another minuit