abuse of iraqi prisoners

[BlitheringIdiot]

Agree. STFU Karam you're wasting air meant for people who actually contribute to the world.

...and that contributed how exactly?

Hypocrite.

 

[tris-]

i know, karam is talkin shit only because you dont agree with him. he could say your talkin shit for the same reason.

it is only ridiculous what he says because no one else says it and when someone finally does its like 'OMG'

 

[Conchabar]

i know, karam is talkin shit only because you dont agree with him. he could say your talkin shit for the same reason.

it is only ridiculous what he says because no one else says it and when someone finally does its like 'OMG'

its obvious karam is a loner ghay bh0y irl ;x

who gives a crap anyway, at the end of the day, its war, violance is funny, and i enjoy seeing people being tortured

oh btw i just rememberd what is that saying do unto those as u wish dun to u ? karam obviously wants to get but raped by sum big black guy named bubba

 

[mts]

It's not new but that doesnt make it any more acceptable. You cant start a war against a country claiming that its just and the lesser of two evils, and that you're liberating the innocent people of iraq, then be seen doing this.

Yes, this is true. I didn't mean it to sound like I was saying it's okay, I'm just irritated that the only reason we're seeing all this global uproar is because some marines messed up and sent home these pictures using their internet access down there. And when you see stuff like this you start to wonder what it is you aren't seeing and what's happening in addition.

When you went to basic training in the infantry, you knew you were perfectly safe, I cant (and frankly wont) comment on how easy/hard it would be to endure the torture that they have endured, I've avoided reading about it actually. Comparing a training exercise to being a prisoner of war with people who actually hate you (to the point at which they are risking their own lives to kill people like you) is hardly fair.

Also true. When I said "ain't that bad" I meant "ain't that bad compared to the other really nasty abuse and torture they could do", that's probably going on this very instant down there.

It annoys me how karams retarded threads always end in an actual discussion!

hehe, yeah.. I know what you mean.

 

[Ormorof]

who gives a crap anyway, at the end of the day, its war, violance is funny, and i enjoy seeing people being tortured

maybe you should see a pshyciatrist or something

oh btw i just rememberd what is that saying do unto those as u wish dun to u ? karam obviously wants to get but raped by sum big black guy named bubba

 

[Job]

Saddam wasn't such a bad lad.

He was our mate not so long ago.

We turned a blind eye to torture and genocide, cos he kept the lid on total nutcases.

But now it's in our interests to demonize him...he's still the same guy, just not of any use anymore.

What it really shows is that mans inhumanity to man is everywhere, in every country, in every class at every level.
Easily recording and distributing these events is a whole new level of consciousness for the human race.
Soon we will be swamped with pictures from mobile phones, tiny cameras, minature video recording devices.
People being caught saying what they really think and really do.

It's all rather obvious really, but the mob that is the human race need the images stuck under their noses for them to realise just how rotten ,hypocritical, corrupt, uncaring, racist we really are.

 

[Graknak]

Generalisation is the root of all evil.

Person w from minority x does a "bad thing" y therefore Person z declares all those who belong to minority x as rotten apples and need to be killed/tortured/mutilated/humiliated/massacered etc.

The fact that Person z lowers himself to the level of Person w makes this a vicious circle since then Person Z would be the one doing a "bad thing" which another person will be trying to stop, usually with any means possible.

So in the end lowering yerself to their level is a sign of weakness/stupidity.

Really, once it's started it'll take a loooooooong time before it'll end.

(Disclaimer: the part "bad thing" is ment to represent one of the many horrors that can and have happened to mankind and isn't ment to be interpreted as some sort of joke)

 

[Tom]

Karam's post is one of the most offensive I've seen on these boards, ever (and that includes BW). I don't need to point out the stupidity of it, since everyone else already has, but if he truly believes what he writes, I suggest that as a society we're not quite as civilised as we would like to believe.

This isn't a personal attack in essence, but I do wonder how anybody can be so stupid as to believe everything they're told. 'Terrorists' held in Cuba with no legal access, private trials, no charges, etc etc. I've met one of them, and if he was a Terrorist, then my Auntie is probably driving down the M1 with a truck full of explosives heading for Buckingham Palace right now.

 

[Morchaoron]

who gives a crap anyway, at the end of the day, its war, violance is funny, and i enjoy seeing people being tortured

and yet you said that B-movie 'the passion of jezus' mentally scarred you?

so i guess you enjoy yourself getting mentally scarred?

.................

its np m8 every person has his oddities xDD

 

[Graknak]

Karam's post is one of the most offensive I've seen on these boards, ever (and that includes BW).

Sadly it's called freedom of speech, still a shame tho that spammers get banned and that ppl like Karam can get away with such things because of it.

Then again Karam's post can be considered racist if not to be Neo-Nazi like expressions about certain ethnic minorities who shouldn't be considered humans.
Tbh if i'm correct the CoC from Fh's says something about that, doesn't it?

 

[CjkaceBM]

It must be pretty sad to have an ego so small that you have to post inflammatory, racist bullshit to make yourself the centre of attention.

oh and that legal 'mental torture' like being forced to stand upstraight with a bag over your head and not being allowed to speak for hours ain't that bad. we went through that in basic infantry training when i was in the army (norwegian infantry).

I really hope for Norway's sake that you are no longer in the army. There's a huge difference between your so-called mental torture and what was going on in Iraq. For a start, deep down you knew damn well they could only go so far, unlike the Iraqi prisoners, who have no way of knowing.

Ignorance is no excuse for gross stupidity.

 

[cHodAX]

It is worth of a ban, I am a British Christian and I find it offensive nevermind the fact that I am from the same country as Karam which makes my skin crawl after reading his facist tirade.

 

[CjkaceBM]

Sadly it's called freedom of speech, still a shame tho that spammers get banned and that ppl like Karam can get away with such things because of it.

Then again Karam's post can be considered racist if not to be Neo-Nazi like expressions about certain ethnic minorities who shouldn't be considered humans.
Tbh if i'm correct the CoC from Fh's says something about that, doesn't it?

Race Relations Act
The Race Relations Act 1976, as amended by the Race Relations (Amendment) Act 2000, makes it unlawful to discriminate against anyone on grounds of race, colour, nationality (including citizenship), or ethnic or national origin. The amended Act also imposes general duties on many public authorities to promote racial equality.

It applies to:

jobs
training
housing
education
the provision of goods, facilities and services
It is also unlawful for public bodies to discriminate while carrying out any of their functions.

The amended Act imposes a general duty on all major public bodies to promote equality of opportunity and good race relations.

This section provides a summary of some of the main provisions of the amended Act. It is not a definitive guide to the law.

Racist incidents ranging from criminal harassment and abuse to physical violence are offences under the criminal law. Inciting racial hatred is also a criminal offence. Publishing and disseminating materials such as leaflets and newspapers that are likely to incite racial hatred is also a criminal offence. If anyone has a complaint with respect to any of these criminal matters they should be reported to the police.

Racially offensive material in the media contravenes media codes of practice. Complaints can be made to the Press Complaints Commission or the Broadcasting Standards Authority. Complaints about racially offensive advertisements should be made to the Advertising Standards Authority.

Falls into the category in bold unless I'm very much mistaken, and this board is hosted in the UK too, so must follow UK law.

 

[Tom]

http://travel.state.gov/DS-0156.pdf

section 38, 3rd bullet point down. Looks like Karum won't be getting in the US anytime soon.

 

[Archeon]

http://travel.state.gov/DS-0156.pdf

section 38, 3rd bullet point down. Looks like Karum won't be getting in the US anytime soon.

I don't know whats worse, that thats serious. Or that they actually pay people money to write it

 

[mts]

I really hope for Norway's sake that you are no longer in the army. There's a huge difference between your so-called mental torture and what was going on in Iraq. For a start, deep down you knew damn well they could only go so far, unlike the Iraqi prisoners, who have no way of knowing.

Ignorance is no excuse for gross stupidity.

Heh, you pulled my post out of context. It was made in reply when tris started mentioning 'legal' torture methods. What I meant with that was it ain't so bad compared to the other ALOT worse stuff they (the enemy) can do to you and trust me, there are waaaay worse stuff.

Try reading the entire thread next time, please.

And what exactly did you mean with "I really hope for Norway's sake that you are no longer in the army."?

 

[Coim]

Idiots. Karam's just trying to cause an argument...

 

[CjkaceBM]

Because anyone stupid enough to believe that what the Iraqi's suffered when they had to stand up with sacks over their heads, not talking etc, was akin to the same 'torture' training (ie not that bad) that the army dished out, would probably be more of a danger to their own side than the enemy.

 

[CjkaceBM]

Idiots. Karam's just trying to cause an argument...

Incitement to Racism actually.

 

[cHodAX]

Idiots. Karam's just trying to cause an argument...

It is not idiocy to react to facist/racist comments, however it is complete idiocy to ignore it or even downplay it. If former prime minister Neville Chamberlain were still alive I am sure he would warn of what happens when you ignore facists. Everytime we ignore or downplay comments like those from Karam the world takes a step closer to the precipice. People thought Hilter was just a loudmouth until he actually gained power and showed his true nature. The lesson, appeasement and tolerence of extreme right wing views eventually leads to mass acceptance and that is how world wars begin.

 

[mts]

Because anyone stupid enough to believe that what the Iraqi's suffered when they had to stand up with sacks over their heads, not talking etc, was akin to the same 'torture' training (ie not that bad) that the army dished out, would probably be more of a danger to their own side than the enemy.

Well, that wasn't what I meant at all. Anyone who goes through training preparing for enemy torture knows fully well that they can expect something completely different when shit really hits the fan.

However, if I had to be tortured I'd rather be standing with a sack over my head instead of having my balls fried or getting a dog sicked on me while I was naked and tied to a cell door (which are some of the things the latest photos from Iraq has revealed).

 

[Roo Stercogburn]

Can't help thinking this is an ill-advised windup thread, just more extreme and tastless than most others I've seen.

If these are genuine beliefs from Karam then he is in serious need of medical help - someone who has no real understanding of the world and is spoon fed opinions and ideas from others, capable of only the most basic thought processes.

Don't think I've ever referred to someone on these forums before as a sad fuck before. Naturally I would not call Karam this because its against the CoC to flame someone and equally I would not condone anyone else referring to him as a waste of a good night in bed for his parents. It would be fair to say though that Durex could have been a bit more active in their advertising campaigns in the past but I will be most cross with anyone that suggests Karam as proof of this.

Though we are all entitled to our opinions, I'll just keep mine to myself then

 

[CjkaceBM]

Read the post above by Chodax, and then re-read your own statements. By down-playing the torture, unintentionally by your own admission, you actually give the trolls ammunition and an excuse to say - See it's not that bad. That guy went through something similar and can laugh about it.

It is never wrong to react to racist comments/acts, it is in fact worse to not react.

The worst kind of evil, is when good men do nothing.

I'm glad that the British pics turned out to be fakes (the Mirror editor should be prosecuted and jailed for endangering British nationals in Iraq) and I hope the scum that did this get locked up for a long time. When you proclaim youself the saviour of civilised society, then you have to be whiter than white. All America has done in Iraq (and the other nations including my own) is create a breeding ground for hate, which will spill out in later years to cause death and destruction in Western countries, similar to the Trade Centre and Madrid attacks.

 

[mts]

Read the post above by Chodax, and then re-read your own statements. By down-playing the torture, unintentionally by your own admission, you actually give the trolls ammunition and an excuse to say - See it's not that bad. That guy went through something similar and can laugh about it.

Can you please point to where I am 'down-playing the torture' and saying it's ok to laugh about, please.

 

[CjkaceBM]

oh and that legal 'mental torture' like being forced to stand upstraight with a bag over your head and not being allowed to speak for hours ain't that bad. we went through that in basic infantry training when i was in the army (norwegian infantry).

That is downplaying it. There is no other way to describe your statement. You are saying - Hey it's not that bad, cos we went through similar in the Army. The torture they were subjected to do was based around the very real fear of not knowing what would happen next, the 'training' you received was like tap-dancing in the rain by comparison.

I didn't say that you were laughing about it - I said that you were giving trolls ammunition to use.

 

[Culanan]

My views on the treatment of prisoners of war goes both ways, a POW may hold important imformation, the methods to extract this are unsavoury and usually brutal, everyone does it, for the west they have to hope they can get away with it because western thinking doesn't like it, the general public is often sickened by the images.

For those in the middle east, it's a less contentious issue, you grab some guy, do all kinds of nasty things and get what you want, even if it's for the sheer hell of it. Not saying that people there wouldn't be horrified at the treatment of some coalition troops but there is less chance of finding anyone willing to voice a strong objection.

Soldiers are a part of society that has to do extreme things, in the west many are professional but there are always sickos in armies, during WW2 british soldiers were found guilty of rape and murder.

On a practical point of view (stressing here that I despise war and the bollocks motives given by just about anyone who tries to start one) I can intellectually understand the need to resort to such inhuman acts although on a humanitarian level I cannot agree with it.

Also, who made karam supreme arbiter to decide who or what is human?

If a guy takes a dump by the side of the road did you ever think that maybe by his own cultural standards he's a few sandwiches short of a picnic basket?

People do a lot of things that from our own cultural view point is wrong, hell I've experienced it in personal relationships but I've never dehumanised anyone for it :/

If it makes you feel better to view some people as less than or worse than you then good luck, it's a pretty narrow minded world view.

As someone else said, most people on planet earth are just trying to get on in life, support, feed and bring up their families.

 

[mts]

That is downplaying it. There is no other way to describe your statement. You are saying - Hey it's not that bad, cos we went through similar in the Army. The torture they were subjected to do was based around the very real fear of not knowing what would happen next, the 'training' you received was like tap-dancing in the rain by comparison.

I didn't say that you were laughing about it - I said that you were giving trolls ammunition to use.

Thing is, I wasn't talking about what they are doing over in Iraq, I was commenting the 'legal' torture tris mentioned. What they are doing in Iraq is far worse and ever further from being legal. I realize my opening statement was poorly written and if you percieved me as down-playing torture in general then I am sorry you took it like that. Because that's not what I was trying to do at all. I was just trying to portrait how much worse the torture they have done and what they are doing is.

 

[Asha]

most of this is total non-sense but two things:

1) Worse shit is going to be coming out about this. It's been going on since January or earlier and there is rumors that much worse things happened.

2) It's not trained people doing debreifings trying to get info out of POWs - not even close.

 

[Qaewin]

I find this kind of post desturbing, its laughable how little karam knows about what he is ranting about.

just wondering what peoples views on this crap are? im getting fed up with all these idiots complaining about us violating they're human rights, bollocks, they dont have human rights, they're basically terrorists. most of them arent even iraqi army, they're literally just people out there to kill us for a laugh. they aint human.

They do have human rights as they are human. The prisoners in iraq are iraqi's you appear to be confusing this conflict with that in afganistan where some ppl moved there in order to fight the coalition. Most of them are iraqi army although your probably right..the women and children most likely are'nt.
When the coalition moved in to dispose of Saddam Hussain there was very little resistence as most of the Iraqi army did not fight.

also, wtf is so bad about making them strip naked and laughing at them? sure it might be kinda embarrasing at the time, but its prolly a lil better than being raped up the arse by some hairy iraqi then having your hand chopped off. all these lefties and women going on about how disgusting it all is dont seem to understand the way they treat they're prisoners, even just journalists etc, which are people that havnt done anything wrong. would you catch us capturing an iraqi journalist and torturing him?!

Making them strip naked, laugh at them, then maul them with dogs and beat them violently. Hmm yeah what's wrong with that????
It would appear that our army was doing the rapeing
Having your left hand chopped off is the punishment laid down in islamic law for theft, it is rarely carried out in most islamic countries but is, i would agree barbaric, but no more so than the death penalty which you clearly support.
The way they treated there own prisoners (which were in 90% iraqi desenters and until the war no europeans or americans) was one of the main reasons the war was justified.
Name one western journalist that was captured and tortured.

 

[Qaewin]

a friend of mine is out in iraq at the moment, and was telling me the other day how much it disgusts him when he hears news like this. he personally hates the country, and hates every single person in it, he reckons they're among the most disgusting brutal barbaric people he's ever seen. APPPARENTLY he pulled up behind some pickup truck thing with an iraqi in it the other day, and this little guy got outta his car, ran to the side of the road, took a massive dump on the side, didnt wipe his arse, pulled up his trousers and carried on :| i mean seriously, what kind of person does that?

I'm surprised your freind had time to meet every single person in Iraq, but as its clearly gospel i'll take it as read.
I wuold agree shjting on the side of the road is pretty nasty and more than enough to condemn an entire race of people, hell its not like every friday and saturday nights 1000's of us would be caught pissing in streets on our way home when we need to is it?

oh.. and anyway, i've got a proper, proper funny video of my friend and his squaddy mates ripping the piss outta a bunch of iraqi kids, absolutely classic,

Its probably won't rival The Office for best comedy though will it?
And fancy you being freinds with one of the people bright enough to commit a crime and then take a picture of themselves doing it

and when people say, "these people shouldnt even be prisoners in the first place".... i actually agree, just shoot them when we see um

yes, nice one.

The most ironic thing about this thread is the people you hate so much ( I refer to the terrorist organisations such as elquaider rather than every person in the middle east) are the people who share your own views, (except they h8 us instead of them) equally passionately and with a similar amount of ignorance. Except they have the tenuous excuse of not having access to all the facts and being brainwashed from a young age by a highly religious society whereas you?