a few pally questions

[Golly]

ok just been watching a few of the usa high rr warden vids and there dps seems to be fine with lowish wpn spec and bm styles

how does this translate to a pally? could one use say, medium wpn spec (in the 30s) with 2h and prefered wpn spec and use and abuse bm styles?pallies have similar defense to a warden but 2h and celerity would out dps no?

i guess the question is, how do bm styles on a pally with low wep spec stack up against those with 502h and comp wpn?

 

[Sean]

wardens are higher up on the dmg table than pallys, and with their clerity + haste might be able to out dps a pally witht he benefit of having shield out also, but saying that also the dps on 2hH wepons is much higher than a 4.0spd sword the warden will be sing to cap swing speed

plz sum1 correct me if im wrong

warden > pally any day of the week tho tbh

 

[Golly]

with the friar end redux + endo5 could a pally spam the bm styles indefinitely?end pots avail too ofc

slam 2h buffstripping capped swinging high defense hybrid- not viable?is it one of them ideas that looks viable on paper but when you try it you end up crying irl?

 

[Golly]

also- can weapons proc when using bm styles?

 

[Danamyr]

wardens are higher up on the dmg table than pallys...plz sum1 correct me if im wrong

warden > pally any day of the week tho tbh

I will correct you, because you certainly are wrong. Paladins are on a higher damage table than Wardens, browse the Paladin Class Boards on VN Boards, you'll see a recent thread there discussing this. The Paladin Team lead himself states that, so I am sure he must be right. At least I'd hope a TL to know what he's talking about

In a 1v1 a Paladin > Warden any day of the week. My RR4L9 Paladin hasn't lost to a Warden yet. I fought Urughai, a RR7 Warden twice last week and spanked him both times.

However, to the original poster, especially given the changes to melee dynamics forthcoming, may I suggest a solo Paladin spec of:

50 Shield
46 Chants
39 Slash

For RAs, I'd suggest (in order of acquisition):

IP 2

Then equal levels of:

MoB
MoP
Aug Str

Do not spec the BM ML path, a solo Paladin should *always* spec Warlord. There are far too many useful tools. For example Warlord ML10+Battler = tehpwn.

HTH.

 

[Golly]

my minis warlord and whilst i love wg and petscare as well as a couple of the other tools, buff shearing non dependant upon spec styles seem a good investment, as well as being able to bg and grapple for 8v8 and small grp

if BM styles arent overly WS dependant i was thinking of something along the lines of 42 shield 46 chants then some split between 2h parry and then into one of the 3 wpn specs and using TD for 1h and either sok cw or some form of endo tapping/regenning 2her- possibly one of the green glades ones

another quick question is, what would yield better returns, 30ish 1h and 252h or the other way around, again presuming using bm styles (maybe the taunt in 1h and shield when i need to regain endo)

could possibly make use of the 2h snare style as well in grps to peel as well as bg'ing

but the idea is- hit fast and have high defense using 2h whilst also keeping slam and shield for multiples (with the new DW changes should be poss to take on a couple with TD)

i know BM styles use some form of WS to determine a small chunk of the damage, i just need to know how much and whether its better to slightly higher 1h or 2h

that spec is nice, and yea itl be stupidly difficult to kill you with it, but the point was to keep dps whilst also gaining utility, dps with a 2h at capped speed with slam etc

again im a complete noob when it comes to bm styles, always had either wl or bl as a fave, another quick Q, is the damage type when using these styles c/s/t or essense?

dont feel the need to be overly defensive, my mini does fine with ablative chain som wh battler malice etc, so with plate parry shield som wh and heal chant, feeling it should outlast most ppl, just an attempt to get some good utility and dps outta the class at the same time, basically a poor arms with capped 2h swing speed is my aim

also wl makes you slightly more timer dependant and iv had enough of that of my mini, simple som and wh will do me this time

o and a good high rr warden has twf which either kills you or allow him to possibly heal up which in a 1v1 situation is pretty huge, and when the patch goes in they get large shield and hots :<

 

[Golly]

Statistics
STR:98/98 CON:81/83 DEX:15/80
QUI:30/75 INT:0/75 PIE:0/75
CHA:0/75 EMP:0/75
Hits:384/384
Power:0/25
AF:40/50

Resistances
Body: 26
Cold: 24+5
Heat: 29
Energy: 17
Matter: 20
Spirit: 24
Crush: 27+3
Slash: 25+2
Thrust: 28

Skills
Crush: 8
Slash: 11
Thrust: 8
Two Handed: 11
Shield: 8
Parry: 11
Staff: 8

Bonuses
Spell Range: 4
Spell Damage: 4
Melee Combat Speed: 12
Fatigue: 5

Two-Handed Configuration:
Build Utility: 812.3
Useable Utility: 777.0
TOA Utility: 238.0

Statistics
STR:98/93 CON:81/83 DEX:15/75
QUI:30/75 INT:0/75 PIE:0/75
CHA:0/75 EMP:0/75
Hits:384/384
Power:0/25
AF:30/50

Resistances
Body: 30
Cold: 15+5
Heat: 29
Energy: 17
Matter: 24
Spirit: 28
Crush: 20+3
Slash: 25+2
Thrust: 28

Skills
Crush: 8
Slash: 11
Thrust: 8
Two Handed: 11
Shield: 4
Parry: 7
Staff: 8

Bonuses
Spell Range: 4
Spell Damage: 4
Melee Combat Speed: 12
Fatigue: 10

Chest (Eirene's Hauberg):
Imbue: 20.0
15 Strength
5 Strength Cap Increase
4 Spell Range
4 Spell Damage
6% Slash
6% Thrust
Utility: 34.0
TOA Utility: 50.0

Arms (Crafted w/ Omniproc):
Imbue: 37.5/28 (Quality: 99)
22 Constitution
76 Hits
7% Slash
3 Slash
Utility: 62.7
TOA Utility: 0.0

Head (Winged Helm):
Imbue: 28.0
40 Hits
10 AF
15 Strength
15 Dexterity
5% Spirit
5% Matter
5 Fatigue
40 Hits Cap Increase (using loki so put the sleeves hp cap on here)
Utility: 50.0
TOA Utility: 30.0

Legs (Inferno Crusader Greaves w/ LT Proc):
Imbue: 36.5
13 Strength
13 Constitution
4 Parry
4 Shield
3 ALL melee weapon skills
Utility: 72.3
TOA Utility: 0.0

Hands (Crafted w/ Omniproc):
Imbue: 37.5/28 (Quality: 99)
22 Constitution
7% Body
76 Hits
3 Two Handed
Utility: 62.7
TOA Utility: 0.0

Feet (Pala Epic Feet w/ LT Proc):
Imbue: 32.0
18 Strength
15 Quickness
3 ALL melee weapon skills
5 Strength Cap Increase
6% Heat
6% Cold
Utility: 61.0
TOA Utility: 10.0

Right Hand (Traitor's Dagger):
Imbue: 0.0
5 Strength Cap Increase
5 Dexterity Cap Increase
10 AF
5 Melee Combat Speed
40 Hits Cap Increase
Utility: 0.0
TOA Utility: 65.0

Left Hand (Crafted w/ Omniproc):
Imbue: 37.0/28 (Quality: 99)
4 Shield
4 Parry
9% Cold
7% Crush
Utility: 72.0
TOA Utility: 0.0

Two-Handed (Spear Of Kings 2h):
Imbue: 12.0
40 Hits Cap Increase
4% Matter
4% Body
5 Fatigue
5 Melee Combat Speed
4% Spirit
Utility: 24.0
TOA Utility: 45.0

Neck (Ancient Copper Necklace):
Imbue: 45.0
10% Body
10% Crush
10% Thrust
10% Spirit
Utility: 80.0
TOA Utility: 0.0

Cloak (Shades of Mist):
Imbue: 20.0
3 Parry
15 Strength
15 Quickness
5 Melee Combat Speed
10 AF
Utility: 35.0
TOA Utility: 35.0

Jewel (Eerie Darkness Stone):
Imbue: 37.0
5% Body
5% Cold
5% Heat
5% Energy
5% Matter
5% Spirit
4% Crush
4% Slash
4% Thrust
Utility: 84.0
TOA Utility: 0.0

Belt (Leviathan Tail Belt):
Imbue: 40.5
8% Slash
8% Thrust
8% Heat
8% Energy
44 Hits
Utility: 75.0
TOA Utility: 0.0

Left Ring (Crocodile Tear Ring):
Imbue: 25.0
15 Acuity
4% Body
4% Cold
4% Heat
4% Energy
4% Matter
Utility: 50.0
TOA Utility: 0.0

Right Ring (Ring Of Moirai):
Imbue: 24.0
24 Constitution
40 Hits
4% Spirit
64 Hits Cap Increase
8 Constitution Cap Increase
Utility: 34.0
TOA Utility: 32.0

Left Wrist (Zahur's Bracer):
Imbue: 30.0
40 Hits Cap Increase
10 AF
6% Crush
6% Heat
6% Matter
60 Hits
Utility: 51.0
TOA Utility: 20.0

Right Wrist (naxos bracer):
Imbue: 23.5
22 Strength
48 Hits
2 ALL melee weapon skills
2 Melee Combat Speed
8 Strength Cap Increase
Utility: 36.7
TOA Utility: 26.0


and theres the attempt at a pally temp, keeping high hp and mainly using td/sok but almost weaponless as they offer much utility- statistically better in s/s but still fine in 2h and incorporated wh som and good +skills

p.s does the aura feedback on ctr work on a pally?not bothered about the ae chants thing, and im 90% sure that doesnt work on a pala anyways but the feedback would be nice to add to resists- also its a slash temp, not the best damage type but again not sure if damage will be essence type if using the bm styles

also 4x hp regen off of procs on armor

thoughts?

 

[Manisch Depressiv]

Golly, your assumptions and ideas are questionable and highly theoretical.

You'll not be able to spam Battlemaster styles with a Paladin. Even with top Paladin endu regeneration you'll run out of endurance very fast, especially with 2H. As far as I remember Battlemaster styles' WS is derrived from the weapon type (and your WS in it) you are using when hitting those.

So unless you intend to group and bodyguard, Warlord is the better line.

Your idea of a template is not so good, you need close to 101 con/101 str and 400 hits while maintaining high AF bonus, high dex for a better chance to land slam (will be a pain to do that before you hit RR5) and for a little more blocking and also high quickness. Even though you have your own celerity I doubt 30 quickness will cap your swing speed with 2H if you go 2H (230 quickness, 20% haste and 40% celerity barely capped my Armsman) and once you are for example debuffed by Champs Valor spells and a Malice proc and attack speed debuffed you'll prolly swing once in the whole fight.

Using TDs in 1 vs 1 on players with proper templates will heal you up but also them as the mists trigger the omni procs, I'd only use it for interrupts nowdays.

 

[Tuthmes]

Golly, your assumptions and ideas are questionable and highly theoretical.

You'll not be able to spam Battlemaster styles with a Paladin. Even with top Paladin endu regeneration you'll run out of endurance very fast, especially with 2H. As far as I remember Battlemaster styles' WS is derrived from the weapon type (and your WS in it) you are using when hitting those.

Friar end reduction buff mebbe?

So unless you intend to group and bodyguard, Warlord is the better line.

Your idea of a template is not so good, you need close to 101 con/101 str and 400 hits while maintaining high AF bonus, high dex for a better chance to land slam (will be a pain to do that before you hit RR5) and for a little more blocking and also high quickness. Even though you have your own celerity I doubt 30 quickness will cap your swing speed with 2H if you go 2H (230 quickness, 20% haste and 40% celerity barely capped my Armsman) and once you are for example debuffed by Champs Valor spells and a Malice proc and attack speed debuffed you'll prolly swing once in the whole fight.

Using TDs in 1 vs 1 on players with proper templates will heal you up but also them as the mists trigger the omni procs, I'd only use it for interrupts nowdays.

Leave the qui and dex out of it. It's a bonus, not something you wanne make a priority in your template. 101str/con, hits, resists, ToA melee bonus. After that we can talk.

 

[Manisch Depressiv]

Friar end reduction buff mebbe?

Quick tests with endu regen 3 running on my Armsman, 1H:

Sapping Strike x 2 = out of endu
Power Leak x 2 = out of endu
Essence Flames x 3 = out of endu
Essence Flames, Essence Sear, Essence Flames = out of endu
Essence Dampen x 3 = out of endu
Essence Dampen, Essence Shatter , Essence Dampen = out of endu


Quick tests with endu regen 3 running on my Armsman, 2H:

Sapping Strike x 2 = out of endu
Power Leak x 2 = out of endu
Essence Flames x 2 = out of endu
Essence Flames, Essence Sear = out of endu
Essence Dampen x 2 = out of endu
Essence Dampen, Essence Shatter = out of endu

Now a Paladin has access to end regen 5 but it won't change the result of the test as the regeneration is still too slow.

Friar has a 25% style reduction cost, there was no Friar around I could invite to test the outcome but I assume it's one more style maximum before you run out of endurance.

Then you have to sprint, to slam and if you are a Paladin to twist chants. So I guess Friar is no big help for _spamming_ BM styles.

On the templates, don't know what you are using, but 80ish quickness I consider minimum on 2H user.

 

[Tuthmes]

Swing slower, hit harder + you got cele to go with it . Anyways like i said its a bonus to get it in, impossible to cap all 4 stats + resists + toa bonusses. As for friar reduction buff, it does reduce the bm style end usage quite a bit tbh, test it out!

 

[Golly]

friar end redux is 25%, wardens is 40% at top tier, so 15% diff

a pally has endo5 vs a wardens endo2

add in endo pots and endo proc weapon and surely it cant be too bad, never really tested proc rates on endo weps thou so unsure on that

not everyone has omnis or a new kit since the patch, in fact i reckon its probably not many at all, and most solo'ers will have 2-3 arties anyway, inc chest which is 40% hit chance so yes omni's are the bane of TD but its still a good weapon if you can get it going- 3/4 mists with heal proc will outheal alot in solo warfare

an extra 20 con is what to a pally?about 80hits tops, theres no need to break 3k hp on a toon with plate 1000af and shield/parry

and a 5.5 caps out with 208 quickness with 10% toa 20% belial gem 37% celerity

208-93-50 which means you need 65 in temp to completely cap out

HOWEVER that will totally overcap any 1h meaing base dps will be lost which will be alot to a 1h pally, i think swinging around 1.65 secs is fine with 2h and capping with 1h also

roughly how many bm styles can one get out of a full bar of endo using friar redux?

o and about the temp, its fine what purpose it serves, its VERY hard to get +skills into a temp and im willing to sacrifice 20 con for wh som +11parry and good shield

 

[Demon2k3]

i can ensure you, spamming bm styles isn't cost effective at all.

i tried to use them when i still played, but their endo cost outdoesthe damage and their effectiveness. ofc i was two-handed but still.

for solo i suggest you go warlord, simply because bm styles aren't

effective
cost vs effectiveness.

with friar endo recuction i reckon you can get two, tops three bm styles off.

 

[Tuthmes]

i can ensure you, spamming bm styles isn't cost effective at all.

i tried to use them when i still played, but their endo cost outdoesthe damage and their effectiveness. ofc i was two-handed but still.

for solo i suggest you go warlord, simply because bm styles aren't

effective
cost vs effectiveness.

with friar endo recuction i reckon you can get two, tops three bm styles off.

Ohh hi dorim <3! Yeah spamming 2 or 3 powertaps on a vamp isnt effective at all :O. Not to mention spamming end taps at tanks who dont have end regen.

 

[Cloudz]

Still playing then Joe!

Artifact mania man

 

[Golly]

spose to be writing a dissertation and the urge to resub won

12k words is not cool

 

[Cloudz]

daoc or 12k essay.

Sounds like a hard choice?!