A contructive apprasel of Alb RVR performance post 1.60

[Wou]

The problem in Alb group vs group is that hib and mid can get a full mezz in unless they are realy suprised.


Hib: insta amnesia ( clearing the mezz I m casting), full mezz ( , insta mezz as back up).

Mid: insta stun, full mezz ( , insta mezz as back up).

Alb: QC ( have to, else I can't get mezz off because of insta things) full mezz at 1850 range.


So alb has no way to stop the enemy from casing a mezz in time (alb hasn't even any speceble insta ranged AE) AND has no back up when the full mezz failes to go off. That only to get 250 more range, but then again, most times that 250 extra range doesn't matter in group vs group.

To counter this, alb got anti-mezz. But 15% mezz reduction at 49 mind is a joke, won't save any one. The self anti-mezz for sorcerers is very nice, but mostly it is good for insta mezzes or if purge is not up.
Anti-mezz doesn't come near insta's.

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Secund is that alb needs more specific clases to have a good group, what is stupid if you know that alb has the most clases of all realms

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I m not saying alb suck in group vs group. I have done a lot rvr in a fg group. But Alb has a lot lower chance to survive when they are jumped becouse we have no insta's.


PS: when an alb is mezzed, all those anti-melee chants are turned off, so after 6 - 10 sec, you kill them as fast as any one else.

 

[parlain]

Originally posted by censi
Whats changes would make albion competetive with the other 2 realms and mean you could start FG rvr finally after 2 years of DAOC?

More Mids and Hib fg's to have even fights with...

 

[hercules-df]

lol

 

[Tigerius]

Re: Re: A contructive apprasel of Alb RVR performance post 1.60

Originally posted by parlain
More Mids and Hib fg's to have even fights with...

Signed.

It may sound stupid or rich "coming from an Alb" but it's the same story everywhere. Get killed by superior numbers, it doesn't have to be many times, and you do something about it. As proven, all it takes is 1 guild that refuses to cooperate with a FG "policy" and eventually all of it goes out the window. The problem isn't the random brehon/warder/vakten zergs that only know how to camp a MG, you can dispose of those and then spread out to routes they won't patrol. The problem is guilds who always take numbers to the next level, maybe simply because they have XX numbers of guildies on and want to group them.

 

[Qte Eth]

well i can hardly compare amnesia-mes with insta ae stun -mes combos,i personally like never did second one,because giving fg stun immunity at the begin of fight ist very nice,and also amnesia is 10sec timer ,while ae stun 10min Oo
compare it to qc
aswell in most cases healers end up with 150 range insta stun,that can hardly catch fg

and about ichor 1875,yeah sounds nice,but i dunno if u nova got ruler in daoc ,i dont ,and if u try to use it from 1876 range it will go dark for 2 sec saying to far away,what ends same as spamming IP while stunned (you must wait 2 sec~~)

 

[Strondor_New]

I Think Novamir's analysis was pretty flawless. He deserves a Masters in DAOCOLOGY.

 

[Pempulla]

Only thing I have against zergs is the server's and game engine's incapability of handling the fights well.

Also, forcing 1fg vs 1fg fights is just a bit silly, especially when e.g. the albs actually DO have to have 5-6 people to have the 'thought-to-be-standard abilities' for RvR.

In Hibernia some classes get left out of RvR grps totally if we are strict about 1fg vs 1fg. After all the 'naturalist spots' are taken care of in a 1fg (bard, dr00d, warden) there are exactly 5 spots left: most commonly these are left for 3 tanks and 2 casters. If we are very strict about it, it is hard to see why the 3 tanks should not be heroes and the 2 casters enchanters.
Do the other tank classes really have something more to offer than a hero does (moose, slam, IP, purge)? BMs deal out ok dmg, but they don't take hits as well as heroes and usually can't slam (and certainly can't moose). A champion has some nice insta spells, but is generally weaker than the other tanks (since has more expensive RAs: IP, purge and has no moose).
Also, is there a reason why the casters in a grp should NOT be enchanters? The best soloing caster has the best grp RA of any of the casters, which is a bit weird...
Do eldritches, animists, valewalkers, NSs, rangers, mentalists even really have chance to get a spot in the '1fgvs1fg RvR' (which seems to be what everybody wants...)? Come keep defense they may certainly seem needed, but other times ...

IMO 2 fgs is and should be the standard in RvR. In 2 fgs you always even have some chance against a 5fg+ zerg or are at least less likely to get 'wiped' without basically making a dent on the invaders.
In a 'grp of 2fgs' one of the 2 grps does not have to be 'perfect' e.g. in Hibernia it can do fine with just a bard (speed5, heal mezz(should someone be so lucky)) and a warden/dr00d/or even mentalist (bt and healing/best healing and occasional GP). The rest of the grp can then consist of pretty much any dmg dealing classes (giving the animists, VWs, rangers, NSs, ments, etc. a chance).

 

[Karlo]

Originally posted by Arnor2
who are hibs UBAR1337POWERDMGDEALAAARSS?

you can match em pretty fine afaik

look as I've said we have a backbone of 5 in the group. Hibs have a backbone of 3.

For a decent hib group you woud have 3 casters, warden, bard, druid, 2 tanks

For a decent alb group, before you even think about whos dealing the damage you need;

minstrel, sorceror, paladin, theurgist, cleric, (maybe friar for secondary healing etc)

So you need at least 5 in an alb group to do what 3 in hib can do. Yes we can get close to matching hibs, ice pbaoe isn't bad and we've been experimenting with em, but come on, there not quite enchnaters are they. So you add 2 casters and you have room for one tank.. great.

Its not the amount of damage alb do that im talking about, its having the people in 1fg to be able to deal it.

 

[tildson]

Maybe if you would TRY running in 1 FG instead of running as a random zerg all bloody time, you might would learn something.

Albs on Excalibur are really crappy players, most due to that they dont change their way of playing

 

[living]

I was talking to a m8 on the US servers and there guild is the highest RP earners on the server. Over there albion seem to do well in FG v FG. Same for most servers. However on Excalibur albion seem to still shy away from FG roaming, and I am not seeing much pwning.

cuz some NP moved to US/alb :]

 

[old.Filip]

cuz some NP moved to US/alb :]

they are nr 23 on rps earned each week .. (no flame intended .. rps allso got a lot to do with how much time you use)

http://www.camelotherald.com/realms/Morgan/

the top five guild on that server in rps earned last week is this

1) Wrath of Fury
Midgard
Membership: 40 Chars: 46
RP: 3,069,136


2) Alpha
Guild roster
Hibernia
Membership: 15 Chars: 16
Realm points: 2,178,424


3) Wings of Griffins
Guild roster
Albion
Membership: 49 Chars: 112
Realm points: 1,942,798


4) Empire
Guild roster
Hibernia
Membership: 64 Chars: 115
Realm points: 1,589,534


5) Dark Omen
Guild roster
Albion
Membership: 81 Chars: 125
Realm points: 1,573,892

and here is the rest

6) R3Z [Hibernia] Mem: 18 Chars: 21 RP: 1,522,317
7) Zoo [Albion] Mem: 39 Chars: 79 RP: 1,447,586
8) Free Lance [Albion] Mem: 30 Chars: 57 RP: 1,297,956
9) Spirits of MTR [Hibernia] Mem: 26 Chars: 97 RP: 1,288,828
10) Hallowed Crusaders [Albion] Mem: 89 Chars: 226 RP: 1,193,386
11) N e w b i e s @ W a R [Midgard] Mem: 19 Chars: 19 RP: 868,340
12) De Oppresso Liber [Albion] Mem: 168 Chars: 365 RP: 716,346
13) Knights of Zedan [Hibernia] Mem: 27 Chars: 49 RP: 698,173
14) Order of Zanshin [Hibernia] Mem: 20 Chars: 25 RP: 663,682
15) DubbingerZ [Hibernia] Mem: 41 Chars: 121 RP: 660,874
16) The Siege [Midgard] Mem: 104 Chars: 173 RP: 649,944
17) Unknown [Albion] Mem: 31 Chars: 73 RP: 624,390
18) Onikabuto [Albion] Mem: 35 Chars: 82 RP: 605,452
19) Illusion of Shadows [Albion] Mem: 94 Chars: 165 RP: 585,401
20) Lords of Council [Albion] Mem: 97 Chars: 205 RP: 585,304
21) Final Judgement [Albion] Mem: 11 Chars: 12 RP: 580,992
22) AzuL [Hibernia] Mem: 25 Chars: 57 RP: 569,861
23) NoIby Pride [Albion] Mem: 15 Chars: 16 RP: 543,029
24) Crimson [Hibernia] Mem: 36 Chars: 81 RP: 535,343
25) RoyautE [Hibernia] Mem: 54 Chars: 125 RP: 508,319

 

[tildson]

We have done RvR 5days i think, check the MLF-boards instead and see their thoughts about us. Kicked R3Z's ass plenty of times now. Fury, Alpha etc play US-primetime, so we havent had the chance meeting them yet though.

But yeah, our group of r2-r3 beat hib's r7-r10 groups several times. Think they beat us once in the beginning only.


I must admit that a totally random Albgroup is the worst there is. Most due to that Albs need a perfect setup, whereas Mids and especially Hibs have it lot easier. But, with a perfect setupt & all RA's up - Mid will lose big time, Alb will be very hard but Hib will probably be the toughest.

 

[old.Filip]

I must admit that a totally random Albgroup is the worst there is. Most due to that Albs need a perfect setup

i think thats what most ppl can agree upon ..

Albs not suitet for casual players ... you need a hardcore group.. and then they will do fine ..

 

[Karlo]

Originally posted by tildson
Maybe if you would TRY running in 1 FG instead of running as a random zerg all bloody time, you might would learn something.

Albs on Excalibur are really crappy players, most due to that they dont change their way of playing

OMFG you do talk some fucking crap dont you.

My guild always runs as 1fg, 2fg max.

I played in hib for 10 months.

I know how the groups pla. yes some players aren't great, but not all. And as I've said a million times there are problems with the backbone of alb groups.

Rather then posting mindless drival try for something constructive, or go back to playing with your lego cars.

ou admit in your last post that albs have it hard to make the perfect set up, so your just contesting to the fact that your talking faeces.

yes albs do zerge but everyon forgets one thing..

Its the alb mile gate, we all port at the same time, then we all move. Zerge's aren't planned, if a few fg of albs camped mmg and all mid groups came at the same time, it would appear that mids are zerging.

Use your brain constructively, stop thinking with that highly evolved tactical mind that all non-albs seem to be born with

 

[tildson]

I stated Albs have a hard time making a perfect setup, but as MANY can agree with me on is that Alb on this server DO suck!

I have played with Albs on Excalibur, i've met them too. I also have met Sotl and random albs on Prydwen, and i also have played with albs on MLF. And my opinion stand the same !

Please, your theory about Albion Mile Gate... Ha! Nice try

 

[MesS°]

Originally posted by Novamir
ESSENTIALS for best groups:
spec buffs+heals
base buffs
end song
pbt
resists
1min aoe mez
speed5


hib:
warden
druid
bard (although its by far the hardest to get end regen with bards than with pala/shammy)

mid:
healer
shaman
runemaster
skald

alb:
cleric
friar
paladin
theurgist
sorc
minstrel


in other words, hibs have a backbone of 3, mids have a backbone of 4, and albs have a backbone of 6.


tide turning abilities (instant activated abilities which make difference):

hib:
GP (30min)
BAoD (30min)
instant aoe mez (quite shit due to a. bards not having aoe stun, b. druids never having aoe root) (10min)

mid:
instant aoe stun (highly effective as casted 1min aoe mez can follow this) (10min)
instant aoe mez (10min)
ichor (15!! min)
perfect recovery (30min)

alb:
1875 mez (castable)
speed of sound (30min)
bunker of faith (30min)
faith healing (30min)



so basically, alb has the necessary abilities to beat other groups easily, IF they are all up. mid has the most tide turning RA/abilities readily available in groups, closely followed by hibs.

overall, mids and hibs are relatively equal - although zerks are overpowered to fuck at the moment which throws this out. mids are slightly ahead due to having the most surviveable CCers - however they lose out on high healing for pacification unlike druids/clerics.

albs are a tiny bit behind because of needing more characters for successful FG rvr essentials, and that they are less likely to have tide turning RAs ready in tight situations. this makes albs slightly more likely to lose if they are jumped.

Good post Nova... Cant think of anything to add...

 

[Karlo]

But that theory totally stands

I cant stand people camping it either, but the initial zerge, and build up of numbers is due to everyone leaving the pk at the same time.

You dont get it from hibs because they come from DL, but i've seen large numbesr of mids inc from mpk to mmg and then seperate when through.

 

[old.Filip]

a comment to those saying alb playing skillz sux ..

in my experince 90% of albs who complain serious lack skillz them self ...

in the /y CHARGE catagory ...(against stupid odds)

ofcuase there is a lot of suxing in alb (often logged in anger of this).. but i have allso seen that in mid/hib...

allso from good guilds like NP/RG/VGN etc i have seen some major scew ups... it happens ...

Filip
Minser of HB

Edit:

I have played with Albs on Excalibur, i've met them too

tildson i deltet from mid when excalibur was new becuase i could not stand the NP influence on the realm compined with the fact that those NP's i meet there was total noob's ... i had to explain them about guard and protect... and some of the board warriors was also so big anoyance that i deltet and move to alb..

 

[Puppetmistress]

Originally posted by tildson
Maybe if you would TRY running in 1 FG instead of running as a random zerg all bloody time, you might would learn something.

Albs on Excalibur are really crappy players, most due to that they dont change their way of playing

cough bullshit cough

And for you Quaddro: This is a caster hitting YOU with his staff:

http://members.home.nl/dh6a/daoc-trg/sshot109.jpg

If I can kill you with my staff and I am a really crappy player, what does that make you?

 

[tildson]

Ok Filip, but i think all realms had that kind of issues in the beginning.

Wow, you staff-killed me and took a pic of it. How sad are you

 

[dakeyras]

Main problem is lack of sheer damage if you strive for the 'best' setup. Many times we juggle group members around to get the best groups we can (and more support classes are now coming through) but once we have the right RvR componants we look at the group makeup and the question that beckons is 'how are we gonna kill the enemy?'

Hib groups have space for 5 damage dealers
Mid groups hace space for 4
Alb groups have space for 2

Right from the start Alb groups that have the same RvR 'tools' as Hib/Mid are deficient in the damage-dealing areas.

Alb groups can succeed and are capable of dominating but it takes much more skill to be successful in Alb than it does in Hib/Mid. Playing Hib/Mid as an inexperienced, low RR player is far more forgiving than playing Alb. Playing Alb leaves no room for error, you have to do everything right in order to win.

Dedicated, determined players will do well in Alb if they can find like-minded people with similar playing patterns and they are prepared to persevere. Albion is not a realm that is easy for casual or low RR players. Hence the herding for survival in emain.

 

[<Harle>]

The downside of having all backbone abilities on only 3 classes is that the enemy has to kill less people to cripple the group. Compare taking out hibs end-regen to taking out albs one ( not even going to mention mids here), and you see what i mean

Oh, and btw: aoe-lull isn't that match-winner-tool some people turn it into here. Yes, it can interrupt QC, but that's once in a full moon and even then only if you are very lucky ( or the caster is unlucky for that matter). It's not a guaranteed interrupt ( like insta-stun )

 

[dwy]

I dont understand why albs are whining so much... Ofc u can make v good rvr grps capable of slaying an "entire" hib/mid grp wo needing to zerg etc.... Ive seen albs on pryd etc and they are doing perfectly fine.... so stop teh whining.
U are asking for damage dealers? what about friars mercenary etc? aint that bad either with a mincer running around dd'ing insta stunning or pala slam bot either

 

[Gahldir]

Originally posted by zlair
Stop crap talking like this!

NOT TRUE!

Dont get the attention of the Nerf ppl!

Albion is STILL gimped!

Imo it's the lack of beliefe the albs have in thier chars that makes them gimped. Some albs do put up a very nice nice fight in equal numbers. Some don't. Even if thier groups looks the same. Yes, some ppl are more skilled then others, but it isn't really that hard. What they know is that if they play right, they have atleast 50% to win. The others "know" whatever they do, they are gonna lose. And then they lose.

imo.

 

[Khalen]

It's the people not the classes

 

[old.Filip]

just for the record i think albs can do fine if they got that balanced groups ..

but ..

The downside of having all backbone abilities on only 3 classes is that the enemy has to kill less people to cripple the group.

in my experince when facing a hib group there is so many ppl who needs to be interuptet ..

vs the alb group .. stop the cleric and the is no healing ..(most friars have 8-11 in heal

vs the hib group stop the Warden//bard//druid(the odd mana mentalist) to stop the healing ...

and for the last post's ... reread the entier tread....

Filip
minser of HB

 

[Jiggs]

pfff albion/excalibur has a large population, you dont have to be a genius (and tilde sure aint ) to work out that means you have alot more inexperienced players.

 

[Karlo]

Originally posted by dwy
I dont understand why albs are whining so much... Ofc u can make v good rvr grps capable of slaying an "entire" hib/mid grp wo needing to zerg etc.... Ive seen albs on pryd etc and they are doing perfectly fine.... so stop teh whining.
U are asking for damage dealers? what about friars mercenary etc? aint that bad either with a mincer running around dd'ing insta stunning or pala slam bot either

HAHA

Since when were mercs and friars proper damage dealers lol.

Oh thats right, mercs really outdamage chanters dont they

 

[dwy]

Originally posted by Karlo
HAHA

Since when were mercs and friars proper damage dealers lol.

Oh thats right, mercs really outdamage chanters dont they

shrug...

Mercs can do perfectly nice damage and friars too... gif merc high damage add and let him run around using his lvl 50 from infront style thingie .....
Yes pbae'r ofc do more damage but they die faster too...
Sometimes it work sometimes it fail badly....
If u whine about pbae's why not make a ice wiz urself
and a grp with merc's etc can easily take out a hib grp.

 

[Vasconcelos]

Totally agree with Skillganon.
A fg of albs need to be formed with experienced n hardcore gamers who play Albion together almost every day n know the way of playing of eachothers in the group. Also, they need to have all the esential tools for a fg.
Some of you mentioned NP in alb/MFL, its ok, dont know nothing about how are they doing but i guess theyve gone there with the perfect setup for a rvr fg (lemme guess: 8/6 sec pbt theur, friar, cleric, sorc and minstrel are granted). From my own experience its hard to gather together with all those char online at the same time (at least its pretty strange in my guild), n almost imposible to see that setup in the random alb fg (try to find a decent experienced sorc w/o guild group ).
However, the random fg hib its much more capable of roaming sucessfully as a single fg with a pretty common setup like: bard, druid, tanks n nukers (even with the lack of pbt). Or even the random mid fg of healer n loads of zerkers. Compare that with randoms fgs of albs w/o sorcs n clerics (hell!! u can even see albion random fgs w/o speed, CC n heals).


Meanwhile, when my guild has achieved to gather almost all the tools for proper rvr (lack of pbt is pretty common in albion), we all had succesfull fights n gave hard challenges to the hardcore rvr mid/hib guilds, proving Albion isnt gimped as much as some1 thinks.
Personally, im looking forward to see the new sorc generation in active rvr, as i think 1 of the main problem of albion is the lesser population of aeCC compared with the population of healers/bards.