A combat logs guide to an (offensive) Clerics life.

[Mageling]

Uhuh

Originally posted by old.LandShark
Ever played albion? Smite cleric typical spec has a perfectly servicable group and single-target insta, can happily heal for 400+ a pop. Smite clerics do 99% of all the healing in albion. Firstly, because friars are not merely rare but the currently-in-leveling generation of friars all seem to want to be armsmen-cum-ninjas. Secondly, because rejuv clerics are rare as can be and, upon reaching 50 and realising how futile it is being a pure-healer in RvR, roll alts.
Oh, and another point on the 'smite cleric' accusation @ Tigerius, he has wild healing and mastery of healing RAs. Just so you know.

So you're saying a non-mezzing bard would be a gimp or a smite-cleric, not-doing-the-job-it-should class? Even if it could heal you better than most druids you encountered?
So every class only has one job and should do nothing else?
I can't even believe you're serious about this.
Oh, and answer the damn question: mid healers, should all be pure mend spec, or should all be pure pac. spec? Cos you certainly seem to be saying that clerics should all be pure healers and all bards pure CC, so where would you put a healer?

I) Friar hybrid problems, very few people know when to tank, and when to heal. But at least friars are not considered as main healers. Dont care about Tigerius, issue was smithe clerics, he got smithed as well.

II) A none mezzing bard is gimped, and a smith cleric is not doing his (her) job, because smithing does not offer much for group now does it. About middies, I would make a Pve spec and then respec for RvR. Thing is aoe stun helps group, your smithe does not. Still in upcoming patches all cc will be less than one third on good tanks. Best middie aoe stun cut to less than 4 secs. Btw, If you do not enjoy healing, why play a healing class at all?

 

[Tigerius]

Smite spec does have a few group benefits but not many, so? You've gone on the assumption that any smite cleric (or in my case balanced specced cleric) only smites ever, lots of people are stuck on that idea like a broken record. It isn't universally true. Does it even matter? Should it be banned that a support class gets a specline not benefitting group?

There are alot of people here arguing if it's right that Clerics can Smite, which RPG systems say what etc. It couldn't matter less, this game has been made with every class having an individual specline meant to give them some uniqueness, Smiting was it for Clerics. It has been a functional line for close to a year. Period.

 

[bf_kate]

Re: Imagine that

Originally posted by Mageling
2) What is fun is a fellow guild mate comes to the rescue, take your fucking pussywhipped ass back and do the dishes, then shut tha fuck up shemale. And this aint flames, only facts about why albs suck in general, they too fucking stupid to even grasp the meaning of teamwork. Some dumb fuck over at ign even compared thanes whith clerics, your not that stupid, but not far from it.

3) I regularly beat up wannabes, clerics included.

ahahaha

you are so full of it.

You don't even have the balls to say who you are. So you can sit back behind your little anon bw nick and pretend like you're the big man. Why don't you tell us who you are? Scared?

Ialkarn is actually the top of the armsmen list despite avoiding zergs and taking two months off from the game. Who are you?


That's what I thought.



You're now going to come back with a derogatory lame ass excuse for a flame that has nothing to do with the topic and even less to do with me. Come back when you have the guts to put a name to the flame instead of hiding like a scared little girl.

 

[elerand]

Improve smite dd's, balance CC out, not just more instas and tapering effects, I think after sorc/minst cleric should be the last CC option.

A healing cleric is fine, no arguements there but I think smite should be pumped up a little as frankly it's fairly weak ,though taking a few hundred points of dmg in rvr whilst fighting another tank spells almost certain death, just for the record though we don't all have ip/purge and an army of resists at our beck and call, my bm has 27% spirit resist and rarely more.

I think smite clerics should be good at what the line was intended for, then suck at healing just as bards tend to suck with no regrowth or wardens for that matter. Or suck at buffs if they put other points in the rejuve line. That seems the best option, you shouldn't be amazing at everything, either do one thing very well or 2 things fairly well for flexibility and a 3rd line for some backup options.

Is it me or would that make more sense? CC has done too much to unhinge peoples view on daoc, wish they would get a grip and balance ALL realms and leave it to the skill of the individiual players, in hib that's how you can tell a good bard from a poor one, anyone who can get a mez off that fast with a 3s casting time deserves my respect and eternal love


1 sec too late and a bard gets boned, period.
They don't have insta, QC or sos to get out and as for stealth being a solo only skill? plz! You can sneak up behind a grp, unstealth, mez, sos, run away and return to your grp, the number of times I've seen a minst run thru 30 hibs in emain made me lol

Made a friar on alb/pryd, looking forward to a few more lvls, as far as i can see they are wardens without pbt, except they hit harder than wardens. I plan to tank when I have to, heal when I have to and I'm hoping there are enough enhance/rejuv spec clerics about to team up with

 

[belth]

Someone PLEASE elaborate just for my sake, what is a smithing cleric Mageling keeps on writing about? Do they spec in Forge Carrying? If so, do I need a special version of the DAoC box to play one?

 

[old.Arnor]

She used all her power (smite specced) dd'ing a hero and hardly dmged him relative to the situation

The thing you all have failed to realize is as follows:

The SOLE reason why people have high spirit resists is that the clerics smite/stun/dd/mezz is SPIRIT.
And since clerics nuked me for 350-400 when I had 10% spirit resist, I had to get more. Its that simple.

Im not touching the rest of the discussion with a 9foot pole ^^


Oh, one thing: I dont agree to mythic extending the recast timer on your get-away-from-jail-free-card. That was overkill I think

 

[old.Arnor]

Oh, and Touchè Kate and Belth ^^

Good ones

 

[amphetamine]

Originally posted by old.Arnor



The thing you all have failed to realize is as follows:

The SOLE reason why people have high spirit resists is that the clerics smite/stun/dd/mezz is SPIRIT.
And since clerics nuked me for 350-400 when I had 10% spirit resist, I had to get more. Its that simple.

Im not touching the rest of the discussion with a 9foot pole ^^


Oh, one thing: I dont agree to mythic extending the recast timer on your get-away-from-jail-free-card. That was overkill I think

he must have had 43 smite cause my old 48 smite cleric rarely hit for less then 400.

Example of smite power is i got perfed by 2 yellow con shadowblades just outside atk in emain, hit instamezz and insta heal then all i did was stun smitex3 dead stun smitex3 dead, my healer killed 2 of what is considered the best 1v1 class in the game, smite does need toning down without a doubt, but not the mezz as that is the clerics protection, smite does still do semi decent damage after 1.51 just not 400+ a smite.

 

[hotrat]

They don't have insta, QC or sos to get out and as for stealth being a solo only skill? plz! You can sneak up behind a grp, unstealth, mez, sos, run away and return to your grp, the number of times I've seen a minst run thru 30 hibs in emain made me lol

Not if that group has an assasin or sniper with TS. A nightshade can even reveal a minstrel from 1500 range with the gimped dd they get.
Also by the time you have sneaked into position the bard has already cast his mezz on your group and its game over, a lot of the time i have to unstealth as soon as the bard comes into range which is often pretty much right in front of the hib group, meaning everyone goes for me and unless alb group has sorc they lose their mezz as well.
Also don't bring the power of SoS into this cus i got 2 words for that; group purge.

Stealth has very very limited use for a minstrel in groups, especially as they have no crit from stealth attack like assasins and snipers do and they move slow as feck (while stealthed) cus they can't spec too high in stealth otherwise they will gimp their other lines.
The other way to stop a bard, the tactic i expect skalds use is to just speed towards them and use insta mezz//stun. No stealth involved at all and if the speed pulse is nice you can get the flute out start mezzing and running backwards and be at 1000+ range from hib group before your in combat and lose speed.

Back to cleric: Look at it this way imagine a healer lost their ae stun but got a ranged nuke. Maybe more fun but definately not as good in rvr as they were before right?
Ok lets take it further, get rid of the ae mezz and give them a ae nuke, now we talking loads of damage but is the char better ? no way..... wait now the char needs a new name; a nuking healer (smite cleric).

 

[amphetamine]

Originally posted by -yoda-
top 3 clerics
1Pitonisa 943,098 Santa Inquisicion
2 Noret Suri 914,423 First Cohort
3 3 Kate Baiserdelavie 865,245 Black Falcons


top 3 bards

1 Miss 1,765,724 Llaw Arian Celt
2 Daigh 916,714 Lliad Ddraig Celt
3 Nicky Nook 899,248 Dark Order Celt

top 3 healers
1 Eiaals TheMedic 1,873,949 50 Nolby Pride Dwarf
2 Xanatea Slan 1,755,655 50 Nolby Pride Norseman
3 Emergency Roma 880,749 Cutting Edge Norseman

Chesnor can u please point out where it shows clerics are overpowered please ?
yes i used excal as an example but i can guarentee you the sme will be on EVERY server top clerric will be the lowest rp earner of all3 . with maybe exception of one or 2 . this is BEFORE the cleric nerf so how u can say they are overpowered imo is just being blind eye'd and hoping all enemy classes get nerfed to extinction so u can farm more easier do you play a healer? if you do im sure you maybe just jelous because clerics have a better offensive in a 1v1 situation than yourself , if you think cleris are overpowered i truely would like your thoughts on Healers insta ae's and bards instas ... but seeing as you a mid i d0nt expect you to ADMIT healers and bards are over powered and have the capability to SINGLE handedly decide the outcome of a 8v8 or a 8v8+ battle . as kate pointed out nerfing smite = not worth speccing in . hence the ONLY thing clerics can do is buff/heal and stun . where asd realm equivilents have a lot more ,

i look at them figures i see healers have 2 high people both are NP main healers who play in the same groups all the time and are pretty dam effective at there jobs and what they do. I then see in the bard list Miss who hibs say is there best bard and one of the best players. Take out them 3 players and what do u have.,... similar numbers to the cleric numbers.

Just because 3 people play there class well it means the class is overpowered??

 

[old.Icebreaker]

@Tigerius


Do you remember the name of the Hero?

That battle sounds familar to me




-----------------------------------------
Icebreaker <Celtic Fist>

 

[feldeshadowbane]

Originally posted by belth
Someone PLEASE elaborate just for my sake, what is a smithing cleric Mageling keeps on writing about? Do they spec in Forge Carrying? If so, do I need a special version of the DAoC box to play one?

Its the hammer mate... the hammer and our buff arms that makes us look like smiths.

 

[old.Nol]

How come so many bards in the states are playing alts? The same reason as clerics have become buffbots, people are tired of just supporting all the time. I am pretty much sick of constant bullshit that spews forth about bards on this forum. If you think your class sucks, then say "My class sucks" don't say "My class sucks, because bards can run fast and mezz". 90% of the people on this NB are completely clueless about bards, but you think you're an authority, you just invent skills.
bards specs & spells
bards of camelot

Yoda - FYI Druid is primary healer of Hibernia, not bard. If you feel the need to compare clerics RP's against a hibernian class, then compare it against druids. If you want to compare against a Bard, then compare it against skalds and minstrels(primary is songs), but you won't, because you know the answer...but just in case.

Albion
1 Alpha Male 50 3200845
2 Mazsola Slowhand 50 1278339
3 Edelia 49 1135433

Midgard
1 Horsma Hordesdottir 50 2302914
2 Madeleine Kalya 50 1836815
3 Eos Somberlain 50 1574983

Hibernia
1 Miss 1,765,724 Llaw Arian Celt
2 Daigh 916,714 Lliad Ddraig Celt
3 Nicky Nook 899,248 Dark Order Celt

now piss off

 

[old.LandShark]

I for one will be interested to see how many bards come back to their mains, from alts, when mezzing and healing give RPs.
Also I must point out that, the number of bards who have switched to alts is NOTHING, repeat absolutely ZIP compared to the number of post-1.51 clerics, or the number of sorcs in general, who feel their char is no longer capable of doing what it was dragged through 50 levels of tedium to do.

Edit: Oh, one last thing: Mageling, you swear like a 9-year-old who has just discovered South Park and is impressing his 9-year-old mates in the playground.
Generally, people who a) have a point, and b) are capable of putting forth a well-reasoned argument, do NOT need to call people pussywhiped shemales. k? k.

 

[bf_kate]

I dont' think we were saying bards/healers/druids are over powered I think we are saying smite clerics in this patch are NOT overpowered.

Not saying nerf others. Saying we didn't need to be nerfed for RvR - PvE, maybe so.

Look at Nol's stats - that is comparing a solo class to a group class. Alpha Maz and Edelia solo a great deal. Or Maz played with Pin. Alpha is almost always solo and Edelia is solo a great deal. Yes great soloing owning everything classes should have loads of rp. So comparing the uber solo smite cleric should show larger rp than druids and healers, but it doesn't cause there isn't any uber solo smite clerics.

No one has yet to name that smite cleric that they fear in RvR.

I am going to try my new spec on gorre now... hope it isn't too disappointing

 

[old.Nol]

You cannot mezz and heal when you dead. In 1.5mezz nerf, bards are basically tankfood. We can't even sprint away anymore, as all realms now have end regen so they can endlessly chase us. Basically a bard without a shield spec hero attached to it's hip, is a grass inspector. End regen(which was supposed to be hibernia bardic definer) is joke now, end regen is in a plate wearing class in Albion, hmmm, gimped.

What's the point, for every 1 of your bitches, I can find one of my own. The only thing that sucks is insta' CC, if mythic removed that and gave me a snare instead I would rejoice.

 

[old.Nol]

Look at Nol's stats - that is comparing a solo class to a group class. Alpha Maz and Edelia solo a great deal. Or Maz played with Pin. Alpha is almost always solo and Edelia is solo a great deal.

Personally I hate comparisons between classes, because all classes are unique. I compared characters on their primary identifiers, i.e. songs. Bards are not identified as healers in Hibernia, it is something we can do, but not what defines us. The primary healers of the realms can be compared according to their primary function, which is healing. A Druid is Hibernia's primary healer.

 

[bf_kate]

What's a cleric's class defining characteristic then? lol........

 

[Danya]

Dunno why people say smiters can't heal. Assuming they are specced 48/23/9 they can heal fine (2 instas, servicable base heal). They can't buff for shit though.

 

[old.Nol]

That point is hotly contested, most people outside(and a hefty portion inside) Albion would say "healing".

But "warcry" has the following description
------

Cleric _
Normally considered the healers of the realm, Clerics leave their churches and cathedrals to lend their strength to the warriors that protect the people. And should no warrior be around, there's nothing that says a Cleric can't have a strong arm as well. Not only posessed of healing, they also have many enchantments to enhance the power and ability of themselves and others, as well as a lesser used ability to strike out with magic - especially at undead.

Walking the roads of Albion alone, the Cleric doesn't possess the strength of arms that other warriors might have, but can still pose quite a threat if he picks his targets well. Their greatest advantage is their many spells, which can be used to enhance their offensive power, deal damage at a range, and restore themselves after a tough battle.

Clerics shine when traveling with a party - their unsurpassed healing abilities allows their groupmates to absorb immense amounts of damage, and their enhancing spells both empower and protect. Offensive spells are generally left to the mages and elementalists though - healing is much more valuable to a group.
----

Personally I think clerics should be compared with the 2 other primary healers, druids and healers.

 

[Pin]

Originally posted by old.LandShark
I for one will be interested to see how many bards come back to their mains, from alts, when mezzing and healing give RPs.

So, healing doesn't give RPs? Mezzing doesn't give RPs? Debuffing, rooting, stunning, snaring, nearsighting and diseasing don't give RPs? The only thing that gives RPs is doing damage to an enemy?

Sorry, but the thing that will give you RPs is you and your group living longer than the enemies that you are engaged in combat with.

Every class in the game has options as to what to do when they meet some enemies. Nukers will nuke, CC'ers will CC, healers will heal damage taken, assassins will attempt to pick off strategic targets, tanks will run around randomly whacking stuff

It is up to the player to decide what is best for them to do at any given time. Some people are really bad at making these decisions.

The problem I see that a large number of Clerics face is that being a hybrid class they possibly get too many options.

Comparing a Cleric to a Healer: Both are hybrids, with a healing line and another line.
Fortunately for the Healer, 90% of CC is done right at the start of battle, so they AE stun/mezz, and then can switch to concentrating on healing throughout the fight.
Unfortunately for the Cleric, there is no clear defining line of when you should smite and when you should heal, as doing damage and repairing damage both need to be done throughout the fight, making their job much harder.

Lots just go for the easiest one - to go to your smite bar and F8, smite - but most of the time this is the worst option available to you (given that the damage on smites is low, the cast time is high, the power cost is high, enemies' spirit resists are high, etc. casting a 250 damage nuke or 3 just isn't going to turn the tide of most battles out there). Sure, if there's a dangerous target that your group MUST do all possible damage to as quickly as possible then smite it (e.g. a healer who's coming out of stun and will insta-stun the whole of Albion as soon as he moves), or your group is just stomping all over the enemy and there are no risks around, smite stuff, but otherwise there's usually better options (read stun/mezz any enemies that are moving, heal/rezz any friends that are hurt).

Lots of Smiting Clerics say they have specced 48 (or whatever) smite and they should be able to do good damage with the nukes, and I agree, but there are many times that this is not the best option. I would ask them to consider options a bit more, and to think about what is the best course of action for the situation you are in at that time. I am sure you all got quite proficient in making those decisions while levelling up your characters, and know that almost all Smiters spent most of their PvE group time healing their group, mezzing and stunning mobs and smiting on occasion. Why do attitudes change so drastically when they go to Emain?


So, should smite damage have been toned down? I don't think so. It's crap now, it'll be crap next patch.
Should the mezz timer have been increased to 5 minutes? I don't think so. It's PBAE with a crap radius, which limits it's usefulness considerably.

Smiting Clerics currently can beat most classes in a duel situation and can take out multiple opponents simultaneously in good circumstances, but that does not mean they are overpowered, or that they can run around RvR being successful. They don't have speed and they don't have stealth, so there'll never be a solo Cleric god out there for you to fear.

On the other hand they certainly are not underpowered either, just learn to make the best choice from your range of abilities like many of the other Clerics on the server have.


(Anyways, enough of my ramblings, I'm just an overpowered Infiltrator with no experience of the game other than hitting my "I WIN" buttons over and over)

 

[Novamir]

Originally posted by Tigerius

Novamir: I was almost going to post the reason why I didn't heal as I KNEW someone would bring it up against me. Sadly it holds no relevance whasoever in this case so I thought it would be spammy to do so. I wasn't healing because I'm an evil bitch that dislikes not getting RP for healing. Or maybe I was just thrown into a situation where I knew nothing of the ongoing fight, all I could see what 2 albs (potentially v.low cons, it was at bk) surrounded by hibs that made no attempt to head back to bk. My chances of healing them until they had succesfully fought and killed the surrounding 5 or so hibs? Non-existent. Had they been heading back to safety of bk I would have assisted them in surviving that. I chose to make trouble or the hibs, being actually convinced I would succed :/
Maybe you missed the part where the "get-out" insta PBAoE mezz was resisted by not 1 but both it's targets? Maybe you missed the part where I was forced to use it on a green con pet? Maybe you missed the part about it being the NERF to 5 mins being the actual problem not present status.
Show me a damage log of Nature spec Druid using his offensive powers until OOP under more or less optimal circumstances.

resisting mez, what has that to do with clerics being nerfed? you were unlucky thats all, otherwise you probably would have got away (as clerics quite often can)

show you a log of a nature druid USING OFFENSIVE POWERS? ahahaha. more powerful single target dot is the only reason to spec past the first insta aoe root (which is coming). at the moment no decent druids have more than 20 nature spec, if that. the best druids i rvr with have less than that.

so you see, you're your realms primary healer (better resses, insta heals, spec buffs)- and you do similar damage to a mage without spec DD! (tho with slower casts)

i think the cleric as a char is hardly weakened. you still have a "get out of jail free card" every 5mins, as opposed to 10mins on druids coming insta root.

from that log, the first thing that came to mind was: damn, can't believe how long you stayed alive, and still did that much damage. 40+ smite clerics when played well will still be the best group class for rvr along with minstrels imo. and i think the smite nerf was justified.

 

[old.Arnor]

No one has yet to name that smite cleric that they fear in RvR.

Ehm, all of them earlier, now I dont fear em (24%spirit resist :> )

But I cant understand how you can say that its right that you should smite for 350+, and have stun/pbaoemezz/instaheals/healing/buffs and so on.
(assuming the 48smite template, fair nuff you aint got uber buffs, but they are still buffs, and the baseline buffs are not bad)



Most wizzies dont nuke for half that (32%fire :> ) and with the bugged bolts, who would want to play a firewizzy over a smitecleric?

Fire resist is the easiest to get resist in the game

 

[Mageling]

Belittling, then blow me

Originally posted by bf_kate
You don't even have the balls to say who you are. So you can sit back behind your little anon bw nick and pretend like you're the big man. Why don't you tell us who you are? Scared?

Ialkarn is actually the top of the armsmen list despite avoiding zergs and taking two months off from the game. Who are you?

That's what I thought.

You're now going to come back with a derogatory lame ass excuse for a flame that has nothing to do with the topic and even less to do with me. Come back when you have the guts to put a name to the flame instead of hiding like a scared little girl.

Blah blah... homies! Blah Blah Drinking a 40.... Blah Blah Blah.

*You might want to consider, before you embark on your "yo, ma bitch, whining whore, little lady" routine, that a certain female moderator here might well look down on such behaviour. A certain female moderator might tell you to sling your hook and come back when you've either learnt to not flame, or at least flame without coming across as a rip off child wannabe gangsta.*

 

[feldeshadowbane]

Re: Belittling, then blow me

Originally posted by Mageling
Bitch don’t talk about balls you suck them all the time. I never get personal whit bitches, call it a role trait, and handling mine. Confiding in you, it's like talking whith a whore about life issues, pointless.

Where in my post did I say I cared about b's on power trips? This is not a contact add, stop embarrassing yourself. I neither give a fuck about you, your guild, or people you have a crush or chose to associate with.

Between you and me, the mental resonance you cause trying to think is that of nails across the black board. I don’t know you, I don’t want to know you, and I generally don’t give a fuck about you. Now come back from you post-seventies I swing my bra in the air mentality.

Smithe got nerfed caused they rivaled pure nukers at times, and being the primarily healing class, that's just silly.

Oh yeah, come back when you at least got the guts to parachute once in your life. And fuckin funny that bitches like you admits that you’re less, as you put being “a little girl in” negative context. Deal whit admitting that. I got a name get some fuckin glasses and if you don’t see the point get a fucking brain. When selfish clueless cunts like you get nerfed, it does feel so good to pay for another month, makes it all worth it.

Heh, only a child can write such shit

 

[Killgorde]

Re: Belittling, then blow me

Originally posted by Mageling
Bitch don’t talk about balls you suck them all the time. I never get personal whit bitches, call it a role trait, and handling mine. Confiding in you, it's like talking whith a whore about life issues, pointless...etc etc

Err wasn't this thread a debate about the offensive/support priorities of Clerics? Not some soap box for guys who want to demonstrate how offensive their personalities are? Strange times we live in...

 

[old.Sepiritz]

lol, mageling is such a child. How did you ever get an account in this game? Parents spoil you or did u haxx0r a CC?

 

[Noche]

Killed 3 days ago by a smite cleric 414 x 3 just when stun wore off. Ok I have less than 10% spirit, so I ate a lot. But tbh, u really tnk that 414 dmg a smite SUX?

 

[Mageling]

Unloyal subjects

Feldeshadowbane, only a child would become a doctor and then think he can join the air force to blow shit up. Or albs in this case.

old.Sepiritz, you’re from sweden, remember to be neutral.

Killgorde, who are you?

 

[feldeshadowbane]

Re: Unloyal subjects

Originally posted by Mageling
Feldeshadowbane, only a child would become a doctor and then think he can join the air force to blow shit up. Or albs in this case.

old.Sepiritz, you’re from sweden, remember to be neutral.

Killgorde, who are you?

erm? what are you on about? What has a doctor and the airforce have to do with you beeing childish and talking about bitches and balls?

And hey haven't you heard of combat medics? They too carry a rifle... (by my own experiance)

You should also know that Sweden has not always been neutral. Once, a big part of Europe was conquered by just that country.