4 reasons why Chanters are over powered

[K0nah]

fix pet los (i dont give a fuck about what mobs do, that pet shouldnt do what it does)
change light spec dmg to energy or something other than heat to remove a chanters ability to debuff his own dmg type by 50%
make the snare on pet more random
remove MoC ability from pbaoe capable classes (no Mythic this is not working as intended) or possibly just remove it fullstop.

 

[freemem]

Originally posted by K0nah

remove MoC ability from pbaoe capable classes (no Mythic this is not working as intended) or possibly just remove it fullstop.

Oh, i didn't know u made the game and can say whats working how it should

 

[kalid]

1.58b fixes em:
http://vnboards.ign.com/message.asp?topic=41948834&replies=67

 

[Pin]

Just in case that wasn't made clear enough....



http://www.camelotherald.com/more/672.php



Enchanter pets now obey line of sight

 

[The Dragon]

well thats the LOS issue solved in the next patch?

we will have to wait and see if this leaves them too overpowered when it comes out.

I was hoping to send this thread to mythic with my argument as to why Enchanters need some balance, but I think the name calling and the personal wars have prevented that.

Thanks anways guys, for the debate and the information.

 

[old.Odysseus]

Today we're putting up LOS fixes for other types of pet classes - now, pets of classes such as the Enchanter, Animist, and Bonedancer (and any other class that can cast offensive spells) will not be able to cast spells on a target unless that target is visible to the pet.

Only took them a year and then some

unless that target is visible to the pet.

THIS, however, is interesting. Visible.... does this mean that pets will no longer attack stealthed ppl or do they still act as before (however illogical that is)?
My bet goes for the latter.

 

[Sharp Thing]

Originally posted by K0nah

remove MoC ability from pbaoe capable classes (no Mythic this is not working as intended) or possibly just remove it fullstop.

sure, then remove ip from everything that can spec a weap

 

[kirennia]

Originally posted by Tyka
in that short amount of time you lame albs have time to stun/hit/nuke/mez him or whatever, but of course you can't figure this out.

stun him, along comes the pet....bang goes oppurtunity of anythinelse
Hit him, well withstanding that amount of dmg is pretty damn impressive...especially if he has MoC ;-)
Nuke him, along comes the pet and u r dead/snared
Mez him, along comes the pet (unless u r lucky enough to mezz em both)

Simple answer for flat out combat is to mezz the little buggers If you r complaining bout not being able to solo one...well sorry but being honest not every class is meant to be able to solo every other class otherwise they would have to make us all the same (think about it)

In keep defense/wall defense however, there is simply nothing u can do once a pet is set on you apart from to run, leaving your grp mates stranded which lets face it, aint really right :/

the whole dmg thing personally I think is a bit wacko, not a lot tho...the bonus for point-blanc casting is phenominal on enchanters whereas on earth wizzies it isnt really comparable (without the pet, in theory the wizzies should have higher dmg or summit to compensate).

Simple answer, LoS gets fixed, alls fair and stuff in that respect.

5/10% damage nerf is all thats needed or summit to stop em hitting for quite so much. When i say before that not every class should b able to solo every other, well when u see spams on enchanter killings u kinda start to wonder why its like that and no it aint just the greats that do it either. If only I had some webspace to post up a piccy or 10 of screenies showing mass enchanter deathspams. (a lot more than once)

please take this info not as a whine but a simple explaination on how its viewed by me. Arguing will just lead you around in circles guys so lets try cut it down a bit.

p.s. no i wasnt owned, i heal (honest) ;-)

 

[belth]

Originally posted by Sharp Thing


sure, then remove ip from everything that can spec a weap

That'd do good. Leaves healing to healing classes.

 

[freemem]

Originally posted by belth


That'd do good. Leaves healing to healing classes.

Yes, could not agree more.

 

[freemem]

Originally posted by kirennia


5/10% damage nerf is all thats needed or summit to stop em hitting for quite so much. When i say before that not every class should b able to solo every other, well when u see spams on enchanter killings u kinda start to wonder why its like that and no it aint just the greats that do it either. If only I had some webspace to post up a piccy or 10 of screenies showing mass enchanter deathspams. (a lot more than once)

Tbh, really hard to argue with ppl's damage in this game... why? cause the things called realm abilities. After the RA's stepped in this game, its silly to say nerf this and nerf that if you dont know what realm abilities someone has...

 

[Flimgoblin]

Originally posted by Jiggs
well duh wedge 1 earth wiz gtaoe 4 enchanters is leik stupido in the extreme

been there, done that, it _hurts_!

 

[Flimgoblin]

I think the best anti-enchanter is the air theurgist... if you can get your pets on him before he stuns you.

mezz em both,

pet the nuke-pet, pet the enchanter lots

 

[old.Odysseus]

root the pet - puts it in melee mode, proceed to pet the chanter.
only way that works 100%.

try and get both pet and chanter in aoe root.

 

[-Wedge-]

Remove MoC from the game...

LOL, did you know you can still Stun/Mezz the caster that turned on MoC? Rendering his 14 RA-points ability useless....

And yes, please remove IP from the game... Overpowering sh*t....

 

[Aussie-]

Originally posted by freemem


Who cares what classes are played on camlann?

yeah you're right, nobody wants an easy kill char on pvp
that's why so much ppl took a blademaster or a paladin

edit: btw, dont start about that 1 kill, hidding in rooms and spamming the pb button must require shitloads skill !

 

[freemem]

Originally posted by Aussie-


yeah you're right, nobody wants an easy kill char on pvp
that's why so much ppl took a blademaster or a paladin

edit: btw, dont start about that 1 kill, hidding in rooms and spamming the pb button must require shitloads skill !

Well i wouldnt take a look at pvp server chars'n specs for planning character to normal server... And imho dont like pvp servers as much as rvr servers, the advantage of able to log in early and play 24/h day and get lvl 50 in like 5 days is too big, anyway this is getting pretty much off topic

Hiding in rooms is suprisingly hard without stealth skills, u need to stay alive, in range and sight of healers etc mwahaha i wonder if i only need pbaoe button on rvr, why i have 3 full quickbars for rvr.

I can continue this with u if u have lvl 50 chanter on some server, if you dont, leave it oki? Would be silly to me allso discuss on your char because i dont have experience on that.

This is getting pointless anyway if we keep it up like this, lets agree that i am wrong when i think:

Pressing hide and shoot arrow is easy and only thing u need to do.

And you are wrong when u say:
Enchanters press and hold pbaoe and its all they need to do.

 

[Flimgoblin]

Originally posted by -Wedge-
Remove MoC from the game...

LOL, did you know you can still Stun/Mezz the caster that turned on MoC? Rendering his 14 RA-points ability useless....

And yes, please remove IP from the game... Overpowering sh*t....

or just send in pets

or stand back for 15 seconds if it's a PBAoEr...

everything has a counter.

 

[hotrat]

If a theurg gets the jump on a chanter just mezz the pet and cast your own pets on the chanter (two or three will be enough to kill it). No way a chanter will target you and qc stun before you cast the pet.
If the chanter gets the jump the theurg has no chance, stun, debuff nuke nuke 5xx dmg per nuke. Even with purge and FA i would put my money on the chanter.
If they see each other, theurg has the slight range advantage and if he can get a pet off on the chanter then qc mezz the pet he should win.

all you need to do is hit the nuker pets when they're in mid cast, from that point on their worthless and have to be released asap, nuker pet's have crap meelee

Sadly the melee isn't that bad, if they start meleeing a caster and are have been rooted recently (so now immune to root for 1 min)that caster is gonna need help (no way he can kill the pet with staff before the pet kills him). If you have end you could run away but for a caster pet the melee is still reasonable (as are the number of hits).

 

[old.Odysseus]

never run from a chanterpet, they will start nuking you when you get a certain distance from you.

 

[Treniel-]

1500 radius stun, all dd's 1500 radius

eh?

3. depends on criticals and resists and your level (figured u dont know that by your style) now listen, there is a realm ability called Mastery Of Consentration = MOC 15 sec castime every 30 mins (14 realm points) wtf u think i was doing? requires aug auc level 3

no shit, what i'm saying is that u get 800+ pbaoes and u can still cast them when under attack it sucks mm? and u don't even have 3 power relics any more...should not be able to do that kind of dmg every few sec.

oh and Pin? what Stron said u can't compare them at all. Moron

 

[freemem]

Ok, there was 1 person who didn't figure out the error, i noticed it but kinda hoped it was too obvius and ppl would understand.

Now, to treniel: i wrote radius when i ment range, sorry.

kthxbye

To the ppl whining here, plz post screenys ( im sure u took them if u feel that bad ) and logs with your class & level's. Lets c how much i did hit and to who Oki?

I dont keep log on so i cant check those.

Im looking forward to c who's getting aoe dmg over 800 alltho we must remember i do lot's of criticals with wild power 3.

Prolly wont comment anymore till screenys & logs.

 

[old.Charonel]

btw, to those who dont know, wild power 3 = roughly a crit every 3rd hit.

couple that with mastery of magery 3 and you have an extra 9% damage on each hit as well as the wild power crits, along with relic(s) there can be an extra 10% as currently, or an extra 20% with both relics. so what do we have?

since crits can be from 0% to 50% extra damage in rvr, we've got to consider each crit being 25% extra damage, spread over three hits that's an extra 8.5% damage overall for wild power 3.

a straight up extra 10% damage with one relic, 20% extra with two.

and an extra 9% damage with mastery of magery 3.

this means, that with one extra power relic (ten % bonus, as we have now) those overpowered chanters are actually only overpowered because the ra's they have and the relics total up roughly an extra 27.5% damage, WHEN we get OUR other power relics back , that'll increase to an extra 37.5% damage. perhaps this gives you the reason why our casters hit hard?

here's something to mull over, the hardest hitting casters in this game aren't hib mages, they're albion casters, hib mages are, infact, the weakest hitting mages of all realms, our power doesnt come from damage, since you and midgard outdamage us, it comes from the number of casters we actually have, coupled with the relic(s) that we allways have at dagda.

in albion people roll the "strong" classes, these classes aren't generally considered to be the mages (why however, i dont know), they're thought of as friars and infils, minstrels and up until recently, clerics etc.... in middy people roll meelee classes because it's a meelee realm, which attracted them to it anyway, in hib it's a magic realm, it's hardly surprising that people who want to play a mage give hibernia a large consideration first as regards rolling a caster character...

so please ffs stop whining about our casters, we hit for less than yours for godssake, it has nothing to do with chanters or hib mages, it's down to albion not having players who roll the classes that the realm actually needs.

and you CANNOT complain about a chanter pet being overpowered in meelee because a caster can't out meelee one ffs, what the hell CAN a caster out meelee?????? ANY pet will kill a caster in meelee, ANY PET AT ALL FROM ANY REALM AND FROM ANY CLASS. i never thought i'd see the day that i'd see someone whine and try to get someone's class nerfed because a caster can't outmeelee their BLUE (note !BLUE! not grey) con pet , seen any blue con mobs ANY caster can out meelee recently? because i was under the impression that they didnt exist.

 

[Treniel-]

in a flame meemerf u pick up on everything i new it was range thats the point of a flame..duh

 

[freemem]

Originally posted by Treniel-
in a flame meemerf u pick up on everything i new it was range thats the point of a flame..duh

mmmmhkk, why the quote and eh then about it if u knew what i ment?

 

[old.Odysseus]

in albion people roll the "strong" classes, these classes aren't generally considered to be the mages (why however, i dont know),

For starters, compare the 2 main nukers; eldritch and wizzie - just think a bit about it.

 

[old.Charonel]

Originally posted by old.Odysseus

For starters, compare the 2 main nukers; eldritch and wizzie - just think a bit about it.

well let's see, if you compare the two main nukers (eldritch and wizzy) you'll see that the wizzy vastly outdamages the eldritch everywhere, soon enough spell crafting will hit, when that happens almost all spell damage types will be identical since everyone will have capped resists across the board, with that in mind you'll be happy to notice that a wizzy outdamages an eldritch in basically every single department.

people roll eldritches, eldritches are supposed to be >THE< damage caster, you still get people rolling them for this, in my oppinion they're not ther to hit anything hard, their just versatile, if you want to hit something hard (as a MAIN NUKER should) then roll a chanter or wizzard, because both are better at it, especially the wizzard who outdamages, or does eaqual damage as an eldritch by a large margin.

am i whinign about elds? no, i like the style you have from them, but i have no delusions about them being the hardest hitters, becuase it's not what they do, even though they're supposed too.

point of fact, wizzards are FAR from gimped, people just saw the stun as the be all and end all of a hib caster and that they were overpowered because of it, but get this, THE STUN DOES NOTHING anymore, barely get's you even one more cast, with the root you can actually have an effect, sure they can still shoot you and it still breaks on damage, but if you do it right you can root someone for a long time, upwards of half a minuit usually, giving you the ability to get some more range on them, giving you 3, perhaps even 4 extra DD's.

compare that to a stun which takes a good chunck of cast time yet only (in reality, and it's gonna get even worse too) around 5 seconds, meaning after cast time you only have time for one DD, now stop me if i'm wrong, but why not just cast a normal DD? 3s cast time is or next to it for most eld damage spells (that's the FAST casting one's mind you) means your only gonna get one DD during the stun anyway.

as i said, i like elds, and i'm happy with mine so i'm not saying "waaaaaa giv r00t ", but dont make the mistake of thinking all your casters are gimps just because hibs get a stun which is barely worth casting against the majority of enemies

 

[Flimgoblin]

Originally posted by old.Charonel


well let's see, if you compare the two main nukers (eldritch and wizzy) you'll see that the wizzy vastly outdamages the eldritch everywhere, soon enough spell crafting will hit, when that happens almost all spell damage types will be identical since everyone will have capped resists across the board, with that in mind you'll be happy to notice that a wizzy outdamages an eldritch in basically every single department.

if a fire wizard specs to 50 in their fire line they get a spec DD and a slightly better bolt...
oh and a whole 10 extra base damage from that spec DD over the light one. At the cost of speccing higher in the line.

easiest to compare to is a void eldritch - but they don't get the spec DD. they get resist debuffs and GTAoE instead... along with a secondary spec nearsight - oh, there goes the fire wizard's advantage.

The advantage of being a fire wiz (two bolts + spec DD) is completely killed off by the fact that bolts are fundamentally broken.

people roll eldritches, eldritches are supposed to be >THE< damage caster, you still get people rolling them for this, in my oppinion they're not ther to hit anything hard, their just versatile, if you want to hit something hard (as a MAIN NUKER should) then roll a chanter or wizzard, because both are better at it, especially the wizzard who outdamages, or does eaqual damage as an eldritch by a large margin.

Hit the nail on the head here - an enchanter will do more damage than an eldritch - not including the pet. Throw in an extra level 44 nuker and that's a lot more damage than anything an eldritch will pump out.

Saying a fire wizard will do more is laughable play one...

point of fact, wizzards are FAR from gimped, people just saw the stun as the be all and end all of a hib caster and that they were overpowered because of it, but get this, THE STUN DOES NOTHING anymore, barely get's you even one more cast, with the root you can actually have an effect, sure they can still shoot you and it still breaks on damage, but if you do it right you can root someone for a long time, upwards of half a minuit usually, giving you the ability to get some more range on them, giving you 3, perhaps even 4 extra DD's.

The stun lets you get off 2 DDs+2 pet DDs all in a far shorter time than it takes to root and run to range. Incidentally whilst I'm running to range your pet is still shooting me, and you can still cast on me.

Root is pretty crap on casters.

compare that to a stun which takes a good chunck of cast time yet only (in reality, and it's gonna get even worse too) around 5 seconds, meaning after cast time you only have time for one DD, now stop me if i'm wrong, but why not just cast a normal DD? 3s cast time is or next to it for most eld damage spells (that's the FAST casting one's mind you) means your only gonna get one DD during the stun anyway.

5 seconds on a Determination tank - a lot more on a caster.
quickcast Stun (interrupts whatever they were doing), nuke nuke, they're unstunned but interrupted again - nuke - dead.
Not to count the 2 nukes from the pet in the same time.

as i said, i like elds, and i'm happy with mine so i'm not saying "waaaaaa giv r00t ", but dont make the mistake of thinking all your casters are gimps just because hibs get a stun which is barely worth casting against the majority of enemies

I'll agree - root has its place and its uses, if you want to freeze a tank out of combat for longer then root is better.
If you want to kill people, stun is far superior. (not to mention that a quickcast stun will let you run away - a root will get broken instantly by someone trying to help)

 

[old.Outlaw]

sigh whine whine whine

The amount of BS I have seen in the post warrants a lengthy counter-argument but I really can't be bothered.

Fire Wizards are the only caster in the game that get the BEST DD[219DD btw not 209], AEDD AND BOLT in the same line...trust me they rox!

Theurgists, Ice or Air, firstly the range for casting pets is longer than 1500, hence u see a elf/luri approaching u, pet em, I'd like to see a interepted elf kill u with their stun then...

Enchanter pets u in keep.....I love it .....root em at the door, "Zoy I got a pet at the door rdy for u to AEDD" w00t

If we r attacking a keep....I can clear the walls in seconds by simply casting a Ice pet on any enemy that come near the wall, also I have killed many an enemy in keeps with 3-4 Ice pets nuking them , just as enchanters can do.

Trying to roll a character on Camlann, hmm shall be a eldritch, well those debufss can come on handy, but with only 30 sec ae mezz as CC (at LVL 50), nah. Shall I be enchanter with their "situation" PBAE and their pet's having all of my fun, nah. Shall I be a Air theurg with pets that can kill yellow cons if u cast 2-3 and run and have AE mezz and single root, YEY

If you all wanna moan about something start with Group Purge and end with Healer/Bard insta-mezz <---kinda nerfs ALbs fg v fg fights! (note I say kinda and not Does ;p )

PS: We all have Ubar classes, with different strengths for different situations, and come to think of it, with DAOC having been out now for 11 months now, isn't it about time the whiners masterred their characters...

PPS Fire Wizards have heat debuffs in their secondary cold line...

 

[old.Odysseus]

wizzy outdamages an eldritch in basically every single department

that is correct. the pure damage output of a fire wizzie is higher. (although I will argue that it is not by a significant amount).

however, ponder the defensive features:
wizzie has root
eldritch has stun and nearsight

I have no doubts as to which of these classes I would rather play.