DaGaffer
Down With That Sorta Thing
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But it's not just Epstein is it? Mandleson has a litany of dodginess going back to the 90s. Even without all this shit there were red flags everywhere.
Politics 2024/25 General Election Voting Intention (2022)
- Thread starter Embattle
- Start date
But it's not just Epstein is it? Mandleson has a litany of dodginess going back to the 90s. Even without all this shit there were red flags everywhere.
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Hinduja? Undeclared loans? Russian Oligarchs, billionaires yachts, sleaze...
...nothing to see here eh?
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Keir Starmer apologises to Epstein victims for believing Mandelson's 'lies'
The PM says the depth of the pair's relationship was not known when he was appointed US ambassador.
www.bbc.co.uk
So wewy wewy sowwy.
Gwadien
Uneducated Northern Cretin
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Yeah he said the same on the News Agents yesterday. He also pointed out that most of the reaction to Mandelson's appointment from the press at the time was that he was a good pick but it could be problematic re: China. Barely a mention of Epstein. It's only this recent release of files that's revealed how fucking awful his behaviour was when he was in Brown's government and quite how close him and Epstein were after Epstein's release.
So, leaving aside the motives for appointing him in the first place (him being a foil for Trump seems like the most likely), if he lied through his teeth in the vetting process and there was nothing to prove otherwise, what were they supposed to do? Maybe he thought "Epstein's dead so it all died with him" or that he knew Trump was so embedded in the files himself that he'd never allow them to be released at all.
I think it's fair to say that everyone has been caught off guard by the sheer scale of Mandelson's treachery. I guess we'll see when the communications surrounding his return are released but it's looking more like a serious error of judgement than anything else. If the comms show that all of this came out and Starmer still appointed him then that's a different thing altogether.
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Really? I don't think that's fair to say.
And why would you think our government won't be redacting stuff just like the US?
The sheer scale of it, yes. Forwarding the decisions of Brown's government to Epstein, as they were made, practically in real time? Sending an instruction to Epstein to tell the JP Morgan guy to "mildly threaten" Darling (which Darling said actually happened in his biography)? Actively working against his government and the UK as a whole in the most challenging financial crisis of our time?
You don't think it's fair to say because you hate Labour and you hate Starmer and your obvious bias doesn't allow you to step back and look at it objectively. Normal people recognise that some of his main areas of focus in his pre-politics career were sexual violence and victims' rights, on top of the emphasis Labour put on tackling violence against women and girls. It's obviously something he's cared about throughout his career and I don't believe he'd throw that legacy away by appointing Mandelson if he knew the extent of his friendship with Epstein after Epstein's release. I don't think he'd be stupid enough, for a start. As Goodall said, there's not a cat in hell's chance Mandelson would've been brought back in if Harris had won - he was put in specifically to interface with Trump.
And you said before that Brown was only "covering his ass" by calling for an investigation as if you believe that he knew about Mandelson's betrayal at the time and wouldn't have instantly sacked him. It's laughable.
I guess we'll see, won't we? What I do know is that Starmer stood there, apologised profusely (and believably) to Epstein's victims, and took uncomfortable question after uncomfortable question and answered them all whereas Trump called the reporter a liar and said she should be ashamed of herself for even mentioning the victims. I guess that's just Trump though right? He's such a card.
Embattle
FH is my second home
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Fucking payoffs when being sacked:
www.bbc.co.uk
Foreign Office to review Mandelson's US ambassador pay-off
A pay-off given to Lord Mandelson after he was sacked as ambassador to the US is being reviewed, Foreign Office sources tell the BBC.
www.bbc.co.uk
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Talk about being 30 years behind the curve:
www.theguardian.com
But maybe better late than never?
Why this thread eh? I wonder
Global economy must move past GDP to avoid planetary disaster, warns UN chief
Exclusive: António Guterres says world’s accounting systems should place true value on the environment
But maybe better late than never?
Why this thread eh? I wonder
Gwadien
Uneducated Northern Cretin
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Talk about being 30 years behind the curve:
Global economy must move past GDP to avoid planetary disaster, warns UN chief
Exclusive: António Guterres says world’s accounting systems should place true value on the environment
But maybe better late than never?
Why this thread eh? I wonder
Meh, these big global organisations tend to come with... Out there ideas (aka what we should be fucking doing) when theyre reaching their end - see League of Nations..
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GDP is measurably awful. It's a measure of consumption. We've been debating it here for ages.
Do you feel any different in your life when GDP is up? Or down?
From an economic standpoint alone it's disastrously market-distorting. It pressures governments into doing stuff that makes all our lives more precarious and significantly poorer.
It's been proven not to work. How much more evidence is needed before we realise we need to change our metrics to bring about outcomes we desire, rather than wholesale destruction and social unrest?
Gwadien
Uneducated Northern Cretin
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I was agreeing with you lol.
Then it's like oh don't worry look at per capita as if that's any less depressing because once you think of the billionaires you think of the other end of the scale...
Think it's like 45k atm
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My bad hun
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There is a lot of convenient amnesia about Peter Mandelson’s New Labour days. Let’s jog some memories | George Monbiot
Yes, he betrayed the national interest in his dealings with Jeffrey Epstein – but also in his sanctioned role as enabler of corporate power, says Guardian columnist George Monbiot
@Gwadien
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We can move beyond the capitalist model and save the climate – here are the first three steps | Jason Hickel and Yanis Varoufakis
Capitalism cares about our species’ prospects as much as a wolf cares about a lamb’s. But democratise our economy and a better world is within our grasp, say Jason Hickel and Yanis Varoufakis
BloodOmen
I am a FH squatter
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Indeed. I've been reading X since he announced it, surprisingly (and this is going to be hard to believe) the people commenting/supporting him are less unhinged than Reform voters lol.
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I take your point.
However, as I'm playing devils advocate in what appears to have become a green echo-chamber - what should we do with illegal immigrants that are working off-book, in horrible conditions, being exploited, stopping the creation of good tax-paying above-board jobs, in the UK?
Gwadien
Uneducated Northern Cretin
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You don't have to devil's advocate everything when you've got elected PMs advocating straight out of the Nazi handbook.
I know you hate the Jews, but I still think the biggest failure we've got in the 21st century is our collective amnesia about the Holocaust.
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So, you've got no answers and still cast incorrect aspersions around when asked questions. Fair enough.
And yes, I'm leaning into devils advocate on this forum precicely because it's turning into a come in, say some leftist party line stuff, most people agree unthinkingly...
It's still a problem Gwadien. What do you suggest we do about it? Or do you disagree there's a problem at all? Why would you think that?
Come on. Discuss!
And yes, I'm leaning into devils advocate on this forum precicely because it's turning into a come in, say some leftist party line stuff, most people agree unthinkingly...
It's still a problem Gwadien. What do you suggest we do about it? Or do you disagree there's a problem at all? Why would you think that?
Come on. Discuss!
Gwadien
Uneducated Northern Cretin
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So, you've got no answers and still cast incorrect aspersions around when asked questions. Fair enough.
And yes, I'm leaning into devils advocate on this forum precicely because it's turning into a come in, say some leftist party line stuff, most people agree unthinkingly...
It's still a problem Gwadien. What do you suggest we do about it? Or do you disagree there's a problem at all? Why would you think that?
Come on. Discuss!
It's actually incredible you think this forum is becoming leftist, lol.
Literal MAGA soundboard - the world is clearly going more right wing - the only party we've got which is remotely leftist is the Greens, and they're constantly being battered by the press.
But no, the reason why everything has gone to shit is because of 'Leftists' which haven't had political power for actual generations.
I refuse to engage in this debate because it's fucking stupid that you've literally got the poshest toff in the House of Commons promising everyone again that he's there for the people and we must enact fascist policies to do what he likes.
It's fucking stupid.
Gwadien
Uneducated Northern Cretin
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First they came for the Communists
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Communist
Then they came for the Socialists
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Socialist
Then they came for the trade unionists
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a trade unionist
Then they came for the Jews
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Jew
Then they came for me
And there was no one left
To speak out for me
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Communist
Then they came for the Socialists
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Socialist
Then they came for the trade unionists
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a trade unionist
Then they came for the Jews
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Jew
Then they came for me
And there was no one left
To speak out for me
Gwadien
Uneducated Northern Cretin
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I'm fine thanks.
Just disappointing when there's collective amnesia among the stupid people that think it's OK to regurgitate fascist lines directly from Mein Kampf.
When supposedly clever people do it it's just sad.
Does make sense if since the Labour election you're suddenly doubling down on your hatred of minorities though.
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I wasn't talking about this arsehole though.
Like it or not - there's a problem that needs sorting. These people are making ground precicely because they're pointing at the problems and using them to gain ground. And that's because we're not, collectively, looking at the problems and resolving them.
The people on this forum aren't the arsehole politicians, remember. We're not a bunch of cunts. But arsehole politicians are 'us'. So what we think is just as valid as what they think. Hence my challenge to you - what would you do?
If we can't at least try to figure out something better ourselves, it's a bit rich to complain about said arseholes IMO.
Like it or not - there's a problem that needs sorting. These people are making ground precicely because they're pointing at the problems and using them to gain ground. And that's because we're not, collectively, looking at the problems and resolving them.
The people on this forum aren't the arsehole politicians, remember. We're not a bunch of cunts. But arsehole politicians are 'us'. So what we think is just as valid as what they think. Hence my challenge to you - what would you do?
If we can't at least try to figure out something better ourselves, it's a bit rich to complain about said arseholes IMO.