Politics 2024/25 General Election Voting Intention (2022)

[Scouse]

Spot the people who are done with home renovations for a good while....

I've shitloads still to do.

Spot the people who thinks everything should be free and provided for by government.

 

[Gwadien]

I've shitloads still to do.

Spot the people who thinks everything should be free and provided for by government.

Isn't that exactly what you're saying? lmao.

 

[Scouse]

Isn't that exactly what you're saying? lmao.

I've clearly said multiple times that we should pay - either through direct taxation or a tax on products.

Unobstructed at the point of use <> free.

I don't get why you can no longer follow simple conversation. It makes me sad

 

[Tom]

It's wasted energy, they should be going after the Russian connection, not whether Farage is a racist, we know he is a racist, he knows we know he is a racist, he is a racist. His cult know he is racist, and banging on about it just improves his polling.

Drip, drip, drip is the best way. Give him the headlines, but headlines he doesn't want.

Access Restricted

(Exclusive: Farage reported to police over ‘election fraud’)

The Telegraph did the original Expenses Scandal so this is on form for them.

And:

Three more Farage bloc MEPs alleged to have followed Russian asset’s script

At least eight MEPs elected for Ukip or Brexit party now known to have been focus of efforts by jailed Nathan Gill

www.theguardian.com

 

[Scouse]

Drip, drip, drip is the best way. Give him the headlines, but headlines he doesn't want.

Because that worked / is working with Trump, right?

How about talk about the issues? Make the case for mass immigration that, demographically, if followed at, say, mid 2023 rates - is going to mean the white population in the UK is going to be a minority some time in the next hundred years. (From 45 - 150).

That's a massive cultural change. And for what? To put wage-pressure on the lowest earning sectors of society and make things easier for businesses?

Instead of shouting "racist" - why not make the case for this deliberate and conscious choice?

 

[DaGaffer]

Because that worked / is working with Trump, right?

How about talk about the issues? Make the case for mass immigration that, demographically, if followed at, say, mid 2023 rates - is going to mean the white population in the UK is going to be a minority some time in the next hundred years. (From 45 - 150).

That's a massive cultural change. And for what? To put wage-pressure on the lowest earning sectors of society and make things easier for businesses?

Instead of shouting "racist" - why not make the case for this deliberate and conscious choice?

Why do you care? You'll be dead and you have no kids

 

[Scouse]

Why do you care? You'll be dead and you have no kids

I've said it multiple times - I don't particularly care. But clearly the electorate does. And we're supposed to live in a democracy, so why not listen to them?

Your argument kind of admits that what I'm saying is right btw. That white culture (whatever that is) is going to become the minority culture in the UK this century because of deliberate political choices. And we seem to not want to give the electorate that choice.

The French kick off when their language is threatened. The Welsh are getting pissy about naming mountains and national parks and go so far as to say it's a betrayal of Welsh culture for military people posted to Anglesey get funding for their kids to go to an English speaking school.

We've been getting battered left right and centre for "cultural appropriation". Some European cultural pre-slavery iconography has been reinterpreted as racist when viewed strictly from modern perspectives and taken down because of it's potential to offend. Rightly or wrongly, this is imposed because of political cultural sensitivies - not achieved democratically. (Although note, this is a small thrust of the argument, not the main one - simply illustrative).

I freely admit - I couldn't define white culture. But I bet you would find it equally hard to define black culture or asian culture without massively oversimplifying. So there absolutely is cultural loss occuring. And massive, deliberately chosen mass immigration - which absolutely isn't 100% positive - is the culprit.


The reason I said I don't particularly care is that I'm absolutely comfortable with huge cultural gulfs and I've lived more than half of my life as a minority in the places I've lived. But that has made me completely aware that with mass immigration comes mass cultural change. So for me, if it's being deliberately chosen by a country that's fine. But if it's being imposed - which it is - then I'm not OK with it. And calling people racist who object is the 'left's' playbook. And given their track record both in power when they kicked this demographic change off, and their current utterly unforgivable authoritarian rampage they can get in a hole.

So for me - make the fucking case.

Or, do what the Dem's did. Point and whine and call people racist - and watch Farage and Reform stroll in.

 

[Gwadien]

Elon Musk has a net worth of $496,600,000,000 and him (along with some other billionaires) are seriously worried about 'white culture' - which let's be honest, they and certain segments of society means seeing white people in streets. I do ponder why billionaires seem to be interested in defending 'white cultures'.

'white culture' is American consumerism with a bit of local shit sprinkled in. There's also 'British culture' too which involves tea, talking about the weather, doing a bit for charity, pubs, posh people, loving a chinese and/or curry, fish and chips, sarcasm, humour etc.

Those traits of 'British culture' are very much picked up on by the descendants of migrants, nobody wants to talk about that though.

 

[DaGaffer]

I've said it multiple times - I don't particularly care. But clearly the electorate does. And we're supposed to live in a democracy, so why not listen to them?

Your argument kind of admits that what I'm saying is right btw. That white culture (whatever that is) is going to become the minority culture in the UK this century because of deliberate political choices. And we seem to not want to give the electorate that choice.

The French kick off when their language is threatened. The Welsh are getting pissy about naming mountains and national parks and go so far as to say it's a betrayal of Welsh culture for military people posted to Anglesey get funding for their kids to go to an English speaking school.

We've been getting battered left right and centre for "cultural appropriation". Some European cultural pre-slavery iconography has been reinterpreted as racist when viewed strictly from modern perspectives and taken down because of it's potential to offend. Rightly or wrongly, this is imposed because of political cultural sensitivies - not achieved democratically. (Although note, this is a small thrust of the argument, not the main one - simply illustrative).

I freely admit - I couldn't define white culture. But I bet you would find it equally hard to define black culture or asian culture without massively oversimplifying. So there absolutely is cultural loss occuring. And massive, deliberately chosen mass immigration - which absolutely isn't 100% positive - is the culprit.


The reason I said I don't particularly care is that I'm absolutely comfortable with huge cultural gulfs and I've lived more than half of my life as a minority in the places I've lived. But that has made me completely aware that with mass immigration comes mass cultural change. So for me, if it's being deliberately chosen by a country that's fine. But if it's being imposed - which it is - then I'm not OK with it. And calling people racist who object is the 'left's' playbook. And given their track record both in power when they kicked this demographic change off, and their current utterly unforgivable authoritarian rampage they can get in a hole.

So for me - make the fucking case.

Or, do what the Dem's did. Point and whine and call people racist - and watch Farage and Reform stroll in.

The case is you can't build walls around culture without turning it into a theme park. British culture 100 years ago was class-ridden in ways we can barely comprehend, and that was an improvement on just a decade before that, and a century before that we were still sending kids up chimneys and transporting people for stealing a loaf of bread! That incredibly oppressive culture has been dismantled (not completely, but a long way), and the pace of change continues to accelerate. It's a fool's errand to even guess what the world will look like in 50 years, never mind a century, but what Britain won't be is "white Anglo-Saxon". That ship has already sailed because we are under-breeding. What we're seeing now is an inevitable backlash that's framed by the Reform cunts in one way; "white people", and it's framed that way because a. they're unimaginative knuckle-draggers in the main, and b. because they have zero confidence in British culture, which doesn't have to have anything to do with being white.

This is the great migration challenge, not that people are arriving (and by the way the numbers are falling off a cliff right now) but how do you make them (or more properly, their children) British? Living in a society where a Muslim woman in Britain can spend her whole life speaking Urdu is the problem. And I've said this before, before 911 we were winning the battle; Pakistani kids were secularising and Anglicizing and we put them back in the Muslim box. It's our fault, and we need to figure out how to do that, but memorising the length of Hadrian's Wall isn't the answer, showing immigrants it's better to be tolerant, stoic and have a dry sense of humour is the answer.

 

[Scouse]

I'll take a few items you've mentioned here as your thinking appears to conflate different issues as if they're either the same thing, or necessarily inevitable:

The case is you can't build walls around culture without turning it into a theme park. British culture 100 years ago was class-ridden in ways we can barely comprehend, and that was an improvement on just a decade before that, and a century before that we were still sending kids up chimneys and transporting people for stealing a loaf of bread! That incredibly oppressive culture has been dismantled (not completely, but a long way), and the pace of change continues to accelerate.

Agree with this. But this isn't about migration. This is about progress in economic conditions. This is also not a white Anglo-Saxon issue or a migration issue - this is a technological progress and economics issue and not about "culture" - but about work and conditions in an industrialising society.

Entirely correct, but unfortunately entirely irrelevant.

It's a fool's errand to even guess what the world will look like in 50 years, never mind a century, but what Britain won't be is "white Anglo-Saxon".

It's not a fools errand. It's very easy based on current rates of demographic change and where that change is coming from - and you contradict yourself in your own sentence - you've made the only prediction we're talking about - that Britain won't be "white Anglo-Saxon".

And this is a choice. Not an inevitability.

I'm not wedded to white or brown either way. But I'm not going to lie to myself and say that this is some sort of inexorable inevitable natural happenstance. This is the result of direct political choices made by the last Labour government. I don't care if you call it the "Great Replacement Theory" or just "immigration". But it is neither inevitable nor irreversible. It'll be horrible if we try to reverse it, yes. But it's not some law of nature.

Now this isn't strictly a fair representation of the facts either:

British culture, which doesn't have to have anything to do with being white.

Skin colour is not causal, but it's absolutely associative.

We've got black culture. We've got asian culture. We've got white culture too. And it's not black/white/asian because of the colour of the skin - it's because of where that culture originated. Asian culture arose from Asian countries - and because of mass immigration (and ghettoisation) we've got areas of the UK that are absolutely Asian in culture - to the point that Sharia courts hold sway ahead of standard British courts. I know. I've lived there.

You do a disservice to the truth to say that all these cultures are valid - and are deserving of protection - apart from the inconvenient "white" British culture. That for some reason many people seem to think is inferior to the cultures that are displacing it.

Yes. Melting pot. Yadda yadda yadda. But absolutely white culture - and it is a distinct thing - is being changed very very rapidly. And this is in a country that has, since we left Africa and our bodies ditched the genes that gave us black skin in favour of white skin, so we could soak up more sun because that's what evolution said we need to be healthy enough to have children at this latitude.

You or I might not really give a shit about that. But some people do. And I'd argue it's racist not to acknowledge it.


As for this - I agree with much of it - but disagree with a bit more, so splitting it up a bit:

This is the great migration challenge, not that people are arriving (and by the way the numbers are falling off a cliff right now) but how do you make them (or more properly, their children) British? Living in a society where a Muslim woman in Britain can spend her whole life speaking Urdu is the problem. And I've said this before, before 911 we were winning the battle; Pakistani kids were secularising and Anglicizing and we put them back in the Muslim box.

This is the voluntary migration challenge. But it IS a challenge - and we agree and have spoken at length on ghettoization and the fact that a muslim woman in Britain can spend her whole life speaking Urdu. Sensible migration policy would have prevented ghettos, would have thought sensibly and structurally when migration was allowed to prevent ghettoisation and to ensure integration.

But we didn't - and that boat has long sailed.

Which brings us to:

It's our fault, and we need to figure out how to do that

It's the fault of policy 70 years ago - before New Labour got in and made the incredible levels of mass migration de-facto UK.gov policy. This could have been figured out after WW2. But we didn't - so "our fault"? Yes, historically. But Labour knew this in 1997 and didn't give a shit, integrated identity politics into law and ever since we've been shouting at anyone who goes "hey - WTF are you doing" - and calling them racist. Sometimes locking them up - certainly making them social pariahs so it's almost impossible to talk about the actual problem in adult terms.

And this policy - this choice - it's hit the poor working class white people the hardest. Immigrants are better off because they're coming from shithole > UK, so they get a bump. But they get a bump at the expense of the poor working class who now find it harder to get a job, and when they do get a job the wages are shit. And for the rest of us, we don't have to care because we've got enough poor immigrants doing poor white people's jobs that our health system is still running(ish) and our shitty povery state pension is still funded(lol).

So these poor white people push back. They become susceptible to the unscrupulous - so we Brexited. We are going to Reform the shit out of the country unless something drastic happens.

And you hate these poor white people. You've expressed it plainly and unambigously before. You're not an honest broker in this argument - I don't have a stick in the game, but you've got hatred of these people tilting your argument one way or another. Because you don't really give a fuck about their concerns.

So, yes. It's our fault. But there's no going back now. We are NOT going to reverse ghettoisation. We're not going to do integration without turning into an authoritarian hellholle - likely with sort of Chinese-style social capital system. Might make you laugh - but the Labour policy of legislation, hard identity, automated CCTV around the country and willingness to brand anyone a racist who isn't - the amount of absolute politically correct doublespeak coming out of Government is terrifying.

memorising the length of Hadrian's Wall isn't the answer, showing immigrants it's better to be tolerant, stoic and have a dry sense of humour is the answer.

I've no idea how long Hardian's wall is myself - but getting a British sense of humour might have been a tiny tiny part of the answer 50 years ago if we'd have been serious. But it's not the answer to whole swathes of the country and a massive percentage of the population who simply don't share the culture that we'd evolved down the centuries.

Again. I don't have an oar in this boat apart from this - I detest lies and unfairness.

The way successive governments have deliberately changed the demographics of the UK without informed consent is disgusting. It's all lies and unfairness, and antidemocratic. And instead of being honest with people we have changed our laws, our social discourse, and the very meaning of words to beat up the people who do have a stake in this, and who are getting fucked over the most.


That's why I took objection to @Tom's approach - lets call everyone racist. It's what the Democrats did in America and it didn't fucking work. It's not fucking working now - it's making reform voters MORE reform. Fucking hell, it almost makes ME want to vote reform just out of spite - and I fucking HATE the cunts.

If we want to stop Reform getting in there's only one way now. And that's to tell the truth.

 

[DaGaffer]

I'll take a few items you've mentioned here as your thinking appears to conflate different issues as if they're either the same thing, or necessarily inevitable:


Agree with this. But this isn't about migration. This is about progress in economic conditions. This is also not a white Anglo-Saxon issue or a migration issue - this is a technological progress and economics issue and not about "culture" - but about work and conditions in an industrialising society.

Entirely correct, but unfortunately entirely irrelevant.

The narrative is racial. Please don't pretend it isn't.

It's not a fools errand. It's very easy based on current rates of demographic change and where that change is coming from - and you contradict yourself in your own sentence - you've made the only prediction we're talking about - that Britain won't be "white Anglo-Saxon".

And this is a choice. Not an inevitability.

How am I contradicting myself? You're not forecasting anything by pointing out the decline of "white British" through birthrate decline; it's already happening; the rest is just maths. And how is that decline a choice? Show me one country in the world that's managed to sustainably turn around birth rate decline in the last 50 years? Don't bother looking it up, there aren't any.

I'm not wedded to white or brown either way. But I'm not going to lie to myself and say that this is some sort of inexorable inevitable natural happenstance. This is the result of direct political choices made by the last Labour government. I don't care if you call it the "Great Replacement Theory" or just "immigration". But it is neither inevitable nor irreversible. It'll be horrible if we try to reverse it, yes. But it's not some law of nature.

Now this isn't strictly a fair representation of the facts either:

Skin colour is not causal, but it's absolutely associative.

Except British culture has absorbed black culture and Asian culture massively. We were absorbing Asian culture even before they arrived! British culture is already a synthesis.

We've got black culture. We've got asian culture. We've got white culture too. And it's not black/white/asian because of the colour of the skin - it's because of where that culture originated. Asian culture arose from Asian countries - and because of mass immigration (and ghettoisation) we've got areas of the UK that are absolutely Asian in culture - to the point that Sharia courts hold sway ahead of standard British courts. I know. I've lived there.

And I wouldn't allow Sharia or any of that shit. I never once made that argument.

You do a disservice to the truth to say that all these cultures are valid - and are deserving of protection - apart from the inconvenient "white" British culture. That for some reason many people seem to think is inferior to the cultures that are displacing it.

Where did I say that? I said cultures change, and they do, and personally I'm pretty proud of British culture (although not so much recently), but it's not British culture because it's white, and hasn't been for a very long time.

Yes. Melting pot. Yadda yadda yadda. But absolutely white culture - and it is a distinct thing - is being changed very very rapidly. And this is in a country that has, since we left Africa and our bodies ditched the genes that gave us black skin in favour of white skin, so we could soak up more sun because that's what evolution said we need to be healthy enough to have children at this latitude.

You or I might not really give a shit about that. But some people do. And I'd argue it's racist not to acknowledge it.

It's also racist to think it matters in of itself.

As for this - I agree with much of it - but disagree with a bit more, so splitting it up a bit:

This is the voluntary migration challenge. But it IS a challenge - and we agree and have spoken at length on ghettoization and the fact that a muslim woman in Britain can spend her whole life speaking Urdu. Sensible migration policy would have prevented ghettos, would have thought sensibly and structurally when migration was allowed to prevent ghettoisation and to ensure integration.

But we didn't - and that boat has long sailed.

Which brings us to:

It's the fault of policy 70 years ago - before New Labour got in and made the incredible levels of mass migration de-facto UK.gov policy. This could have been figured out after WW2. But we didn't - so "our fault"? Yes, historically. But Labour knew this in 1997 and didn't give a shit, integrated identity politics into law and ever since we've been shouting at anyone who goes "hey - WTF are you doing" - and calling them racist. Sometimes locking them up - certainly making them social pariahs so it's almost impossible to talk about the actual problem in adult terms.

And this policy - this choice - it's hit the poor working class white people the hardest. Immigrants are better off because they're coming from shithole > UK, so they get a bump. But they get a bump at the expense of the poor working class who now find it harder to get a job, and when they do get a job the wages are shit. And for the rest of us, we don't have to care because we've got enough poor immigrants doing poor white people's jobs that our health system is still running(ish) and our shitty povery state pension is still funded(lol)

So these poor white people push back. They become susceptible to the unscrupulous - so we Brexited. We are going to Reform the shit out of the country unless something drastic happens.

And you hate these poor white people. You've expressed it plainly and unambigously before. You're not an honest broker in this argument - I don't have a stick in the game, but you've got hatred of these people tilting your argument one way or another. Because you don't really give a fuck about their concerns.

Why am I not an honest broker? My position is clear. Don't moan if you haven't tried. And so fucking many haven't. Starting in school and continuing on. And this trend has been going on since before New Labour. "Oh no my mining/fishing/car factory job disappeared 40 years ago, there's no hope, fancy a spliff?" Meanwhile some poor bastard drags his arse half way around the world to slog his guts out in drizzle central and he's the bad guy? And don't tell me they shouldn't have to do it or any of that shit, we live in global economy; Greeks and Irish fucked off abroad to find work after the financial crash in droves; Brits sat at home pissing and moaning and blaming the EU.

So, yes. It's our fault. But there's no going back now. We are NOT going to reverse ghettoisation. We're not going to do integration without turning into an authoritarian hellholle - likely with sort of Chinese-style social capital system. Might make you laugh - but the Labour policy of legislation, hard identity, automated CCTV around the country and willingness to brand anyone a racist who isn't - the amount of absolute politically correct doublespeak coming out of Government is terrifying.

Who's forecasting now? You actually have nothing to back that assertion up apart from your visceral hatred of Labour.

I've no idea how long Hardian's wall is myself - but getting a British sense of humour might have been a tiny tiny part of the answer 50 years ago if we'd have been serious. But it's not the answer to whole swathes of the country and a massive percentage of the population who simply don't share the culture that we'd evolved down the centuries.

Again. I don't have an oar in this boat apart from this - I detest lies and unfairness.

The way successive governments have deliberately changed the demographics of the UK without informed consent is disgusting. It's all lies and unfairness, and antidemocratic. And instead of being honest with people we have changed our laws, our social discourse, and the very meaning of words to beat up the people who do have a stake in this, and who are getting fucked over the most.

You vote for them. You voted for the Tories over and over again while Boris literally lied to your face about migration, and then you reelected him! And they were still lying right up to the moment they were kicked out (small boats are 5% of immigration). Labour are just incompetent rather than actual evil, but you all seem to prefer evil and end up making Nigel Farage PM; another proven liar.

That's why I took objection to @Tom's approach - lets call everyone racist. It's what the Democrats did in America and it didn't fucking work. It's not fucking working now - it's making reform voters MORE reform. Fucking hell, it almost makes ME want to vote reform just out of spite - and I fucking HATE the cunts.

If we want to stop Reform getting in there's only one way now. And that's to tell the truth.

OK, so a politician stands up and says "Every white British woman needs to have three kids minimum, starting now, and by the way there will be no extra help so you'll need to figure out how you're going to work and have three kids, crack on. What, you don't fancy that? OK, everyone over 65 needs to be euthanized because there are no tax payers to pay for the long lived bastards. What? You don't like that either? Well it's back to the immigrants then". How many seconds do you think their career will last?

Telling the truth won't work because no one wants to hear it; much easier to blame the darkies.

 

[Embattle]

🍿

 

[Deebs]

🍿

Can I have some of that, I made the mistake of reading both posts and my brain is dying. Interesting to read just not first thing after waking up and having a coffee.

 

[Scouse]

So then

The narrative is racial. Please don't pretend it isn't.

On truth-telling, absolutely there's a racial element to this. But the thrust of the narrative and cause of the issue isn't racial - as much as the press would like us believe it is. We've been cuckolded into seeing the world in terms of identity politics, and 'political correctness' - a communist invention, comrade - prevents us getting openly talking in truthful terms, putting some topics 'off limits' because whilst potentially technically correct it's not politically correct.

This inability to discuss in an open and adult manner is the result of decades-old political choices and momentum that has built upon that.

The truth of the matter is the root cause of the issue right now is economic. As has always happened the unscrupulous are turning to othering to achieve their political aims and some parts of the population will go down the racial lines. But please don't pretend that the root cause is racial - as much as the entire media narrative is bent that way. It's disingenuous. Maybe even some of the useful idiots writing the articles crying "racism" actually believe what they're writing, rather than deep down knowing that they're ignoring real root cause.

And the absolute root-cause facts on the ground are that immigration at the levels we've been experiencing for the past 28 years has economically hurt the people who are turning to Reform. And instead of treating them with dignity and respect and listening to their issues, we've washed away any sort of economic viability on the altar of another set of political choices - our economic model. One that has taken from them, and given to the 'better offs' by keeping their wages low, their prospects low, their children having to accept lower wages in menial jobs. Lower living standards. More expensive housing. Worsening services.

So, whilst I 100% accept there is a racial element to the narrative - please don't pretend that racism is the root cause. It just isn't.

Show me one country in the world that's managed to sustainably turn around birth rate decline in the last 50 years? Don't bother looking it up, there aren't any.

The fact that you see this as a problem is because our economic model requires otherwise. But instead of reforming the palpable insanity of a late-stage permanent-growth economy, and everything that goes with that - we're trying to implement (failed) policies to bring birth rate up and taking people who are culturally very different and bringing them here to plug a gap because of our failed economics - with all the fallout that goes with it.

Managed population decline would be a very good thing for the survival of the human race. Terrible for our current economic model. Which one is more important and which one should we be thinking about?


On culture, unfortunately we're going round in circles:

Except British culture has absorbed black culture and Asian culture massively. We were absorbing Asian culture even before they arrived! British culture is already a synthesis.

Where did I say that? I said cultures change, and they do, and personally I'm pretty proud of British culture (although not so much recently), but it's not British culture because it's white, and hasn't been for a very long time.

Any culture absorbs minority cultures, taking aspects on - and arguably it's almost totally positive - but not completely so.

The argument isn't about integration - which is a good thing - the argument is that mass migration at the levels we've got prohibits integration. We're not integrating, we're trashing. The stuff that's good about Asian/Black/yadda culture - the stuff we want - is still good in the countries the immigrants come from, but the pace of immigration is arguably changing British culture at a pace that is unsustainable.

And, I've explicitly said that it's not British culture because it's white - whiteness is not causal - but it absolutely IS associative. So if you change that demographic rapidly - and it's unheard of rapidity that's never before been seen in human history in a European country - then the cultural change becomes unmanageable, and arguably undesirable.

It's not the colour, it's the culture.

If we look at the other places where we've had absolute immigration then we're looking at the (actually quite horrid, socially) Gulf States. We've had Turkey with the Syrian crisis and that's been pretty fucking horrid. The only other thing being the mass immigration during the formative years of the United States - and that really didn't work out well for the indigenous population did it.

We've not really got a like-for-like example for what is being done - undemocratically - to the UK. But it's quite clear it isn't working out for about half the population from an economic standpoint and it's coming with a load of cultural downsides...

And I wouldn't allow Sharia or any of that shit. I never once made that argument.

Doesn't matter if you would - I'm not arguing about how you or I particularly feel about it. But Sharia is here. And large sections of the population are turning to it. And sections of the population are being bullied into accepting the outcomes of Sharia courts. And immigration at the scale we're experiencing makes this possible. Because mass immigration and integration are fundamentally inimicable.

And we're choosing that. Like I said, immigration is a choice. And it comes with other downsides.

I'd started to write a load of guff about changing types of crime here, but it's not really worth it. Suffice it to say it's not alway in the ghettos (I'm looking at Llanrwst here, but maybe that's another thread).



But really, the important thing is this:

I'd said (paraphrasing): White culture is a distinct thing that is being changed very very rapidly - and you or I might not really give a shit about that. But some people do. And I argue that we acknowledge and value black/asian culture - but not 'white' culture. That we don't care about it, and you say:

It's also racist to think it matters in of itself.

I utterly reject this. That's the party line frankly. It's born of a coercive politically correct thought-crime culture that's been foisted upon us. And it's the reason we can't discuss immigration like adults and get at the truth of the situation and have an equitable outcome.

This is calling people racist who have intellectually held positions that don't discriminate on the basis of people's skin colour, but that value both difference and what they already have.



On the economics of it:

Meanwhile some poor bastard drags his arse half way around the world to slog his guts out in drizzle central and he's the bad guy?

I had this conversation with my very rich brother in law the other day. He fucking hates the lazy wasterels and admires the immigrants who've dragged their way across the world to work in blighty.

But at no point has he seen the fact that the lazy wastrels reason to go to work is their economic gain for working - and that's undermined by immigration. Why would you go to work for wages that have been utterly depressed by cheap immigration labour. And lets have a look at this immigrant labour - they're not coming here because they want to work shit jobs. They want to come here because working shit jobs gives them a much better life than what they came from.

So it's not an equal argument. Mass immigration has harmed the poorest the most. And these are the fucks that are going to vote Reform. And for this, we're utterly stupidly calling them racist - because we didn't bother to solve their economic problems when we had the chance - because we didn't give a shit about the poor wasterels. We plugged gaps in an economic model we couldn't be arsed changing through mass immigration and told the wasterels to go fuck themselves.

So this immigration hoo-ha - it's not the fault of the fucking wasterels - it's the end-result of half of the country (especially business) not giving a shit about the economic prospects of the poorest half of the country. And we still don't give a shit about them.

Unfortunately for them, they can't just up and fucking leave for another country to make their lives immeasurably better eh? If you come from a slum in calcutta and end up in social housing in Bradford it's like getting the keys to a fucking Mayfair appartment. Who wouldn't do that? Oh. I know, the poor white kids in the Bradford slums who are told their entire lives that they have to work shit jobs, that there's no prospects for them, there's no such thing as social mobility and that they're just a bunch of racist bigotted asshats, born to a bunch of racist biggoted asshats and anyway nobody cares about them and most of the country hates them anyway.


That's the actual reality. And that's the type of people who are going to vote reform wholesale. Because what else are they going to do?


You don't fix this problem by calling people racist. That's just Labour and Democrat policy. And it didn't work in the United States, and it's not going to work here to keep Nige out. Because it's a fucking lie.


And on that:

Labour are just incompetent rather than actual evil, but you all seem to prefer evil and end up making Nigel Farage PM; another proven liar.

I was @Gwadien in the mid-90's. I wanted the Tories out and I thought Labour might have some ideas. That things could really only get better. But then Blair got in and over their terms I realised that, although they weren't evil (never said they were) they were utterly misguided. And ultimately, by the end of it, we were a much poorer country in so many ways, culturally, in freedom of thought and expression, in the levels of intellectual discourse we were now permitted to have. Freedom on a downslide. Still going to illegal wars - taken there by their lies and against mass peaceful demonstration.

When this Labour government got in I harboured a hope that they wouldn't go down the same route, but they've accellerated in all of the ways they really shouldn't. They lied again and they're bringing around a Britain that will be insufferable to anyone independent of thought. Well meaning? Maybe Starmer is a well-meaning genocidal maniac. But the road Labour is taking us down is dark and not that long.

So yes. Reform is fronted by a proven liar. A horrible man. The Tories are horrible proven liars. Starmer is a genocidal maniac that's made the UK taxpayer complicit, locking up people of conscience and eroding our freedoms at a rate I'd never thought possible. I kind of expected him to bring back ID cards and roll out AI-based digital surveillance across the whole country, fundamentally transforming what this country is. But, I mean, it never occured to me that we'd see the end of trial by jury to top it all. I mean, we've only largely had that right since the 13th Century.

Just FYI - Farage has said they'd reinstate trial by jury if Labour ends it. It might well be a lie. But then, given Starmer didn't say he was going to introduce ID cards, that he didn't say he was going to roll out nationwide surveillance, that he didn't say he was going to end trial by jury and he promised he wasn't going to raise taxes on working people (and as a human rights lawyer, you'd expect him to know that war crimes include turning water and power off to a population wouldn't you?).

If they're all liars, then why do you expect people to not vote for Farage?

Maybe telling the truth in adversity is the only thing to do.

 

[Jupitus]

Fucking hell... wall of text! Can I temp ban you for that???

 

[Embattle]

darkies.

I think one of my nans used that term.

 

[Gwadien]

Fucking hell... wall of text! Can I temp ban you for that???

All I saw was Sharia law is here. Which tells me all I need to know

 

[Scouse]

All I saw was Sharia law is here. Which tells me all I need to know

Maybe you lived in a middle-class suburb of Leicester eh? My lived experience tells me different, and so, funnily enough, does the Home Office.

Sharia councils arbitrate mainly on marriage, divorce and inheritance and the Home Office found women were being treated unequally, pressured into accepting Sharia council judgement rather than being protected by the laws of the land.

This is a real cultural issue born out of the pace of immigration, ghettoisation and a lack of integration.


But if that one sentence tells you "all you need to know" out of that whole argument, all the economic and cultural points raised - if you want 'perfection' (in your eyes) before you even engage with an argument - then you're absolutely living your best intellectual life.

 

[Scouse]

Fucking hell... wall of text! Can I temp ban you for that???

Same size as Gaffs

 

[Embattle]

Same size as Gaffs

Even by eyeball, that is clearly not true on the last two walls of text, but to be somewhat scientific:

Gaffs - 492 Words, 2282 Characters
Scouse - 1819 Words, 8622 Characters

He built a brick shithouse, and you built a whole house

 

[Deebs]

Fucking hell... wall of text! Can I temp ban you for that???

Get a stool/ladder you short fucker.

 

[Jupitus]

Get a stool/ladder you short fucker.

Big nose cunt

 

[Tom]

What's on telly tonight?

 

[Scouse]

Lollerpool winning at Inter. But I should point you at the Jackie Chan film, if you care to set sail @Tom

 

[Scouse]

Joy.

Starmer urges Europe’s leaders to curb ECHR to halt rise of far right

Exclusive: PM calls for members of European convention on human rights to allow tougher action to protect borders

www.theguardian.com

It's not illegal migration that's causing the problem. But because: political correctness, we're not allowed to talk about it. So throw human rights in the bin.

 

[Scouse]

So, it is absolutely disgusting and somewhat terrifying that 27 European countries intend to weaken all our rights:

Starmer and hardline governments risk creating ‘hierarchy of people’ by constraining human rights

Human rights official says politicians are playing into the hands of the populist right as they seek to tackle migration

www.theguardian.com

Fundamentally this is in response to the combination of woeful economic conditions and undemocratic mass migration policies being exploited by the unscrupulous. But if those conditions hadn't been allowed to develop...

Yes, the tories and reform are even more ridiculous (and disingenuous). But you'd hope Labour would give a full-thtoated defence of the principle of equal rights for all.

If we weakrn for a group, we weaken for all. Thin end of the wedge arguments have been proven time and again.

Such sad times we live in.

 

[Embattle]

I would say it is Human Rights organisations playing into the hands of the right as much as anyone else.

 

[Scouse]

Human rights organisations who do nothing but hold governments to standards of law drawn up - in a large part by Britain - after the horrors of World War 2?

It's not them - it's the fact that the likes of Farage and the Murdochs of the world have been able to exploit economic weakness, huge levels of immigration and "brown people with hooks for hands" crime to convince enough of the sheeples that it's human rights that are the problem - not our day-to-day living conditions. And that removing our rights is going to make life better for us somehow...

...a well-trodden playbook that captures the minds of the unimaginative

 

[Scouse]

So the local councillor says the local community have had to put up with noise, disturbance and dust for 18 months.

Anger as illegal waste dumps appear near Worcestershire homes

One dump is affecting house prices, with owners saying estate agents' current advice is "don't sell".

www.bbc.co.uk

Why have they not made the po-po rock up and arrest anyone who's dumping at that site? The've had fucking 18 months.

 

[Gwadien]

So the local councillor says the local community have had to put up with noise, disturbance and dust for 18 months.

Anger as illegal waste dumps appear near Worcestershire homes

One dump is affecting house prices, with owners saying estate agents' current advice is "don't sell".

www.bbc.co.uk

Why have they not made the po-po rock up and arrest anyone who's dumping at that site? The've had fucking 18 months.

It actually seems to be a thing

Illegal waste tip investigation near Sittingbourne in Kent

The site at Basser Hill near Sittingbourne is being investigated by the Environment Agency.

www.bbc.co.uk

I guess they own the land so it's not as easy as the po po rocking up?

Some operations though...