1850 Ranged Mez >> Insta Mez

[nuky]

so really alb should have a bolt range mez and every other realm have no viable way to get CC off before them.

yeah sure, that wouldnt be overpowered

 

[Aussie-]

Originally posted by noaim
You claim pryd mids are all retards

ever seen that top 100 list in mid/pryd? xD
even with 800k you're still in that list xDDDD

 

[cougar-]

Originally posted by Aussie-
ever seen that top 100 list in mid/pryd? xD
even with 800k you're still in that list xDDDD

yeah, its all about the players. and mid excal have superior players.

 

[stunned]

Well what is the typical setup on Alb groups on Excal ?
Is it 2 clerics, sorc, mincer, pally and 3 tanks ?

Mid rvr groups on Excal are often set up to max rvr effectivness. I´m not saying this is rigth or wrong. But how often do You acctually meet a mid group with thanes, runemasters, bonedancers, several skalds or warriors ... isnt it always lots of healers, savages etc.

I feel at times when I rvr and we kill a group "what were they thinking"... Maybe its the rvr guilds on the server that spoils the fun for the lot and rvring outside a zerg promts an optimized group.

Personally I feel insta mes and stun is far then superior castable mes. Even if its very short duration its enough to get the initiative.

I guess what I am trying to say is Mids have it easy with good classes and instas. But it doesnt help your situation when not making groups that stand a fighting chance according to the way DaOC is working atm.

 

[Aussie-]

FYI cgr shout doesnt interrupt!

 

[cougar-]

FYI ae dot ra is teh best a sorc can do!

 

[Aussie-]

in that case i'll respec moc !

 

[nuky]

Originally posted by Aussie-
ever seen that top 100 list in mid/pryd? xD
even with 800k you're still in that list xDDDD

perhaps the players there enjoy the PvE side of the game? Perhaps they like to play more than one char actively?
perhaps they have lives?

not to mention the population on excal is superior

and tbh (not to sound rude, although i know it will) i would rather sit in jordheim doing nothing all day with the people on prydwen, than RvR with some of the complete twats that seem to be trolling about on these boards.

 

[cougar-]

Originally posted by nuky
perhaps the players there enjoy the PvE side of the game? Perhaps they like to play more than one char actively?
perhaps they have lives?

xDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD

 

[noaim]

Originally posted by Aussie-
ever seen that top 100 list in mid/pryd? xD
even with 800k you're still in that list xDDDD

Yeah but someone posted about a german thane with 11 million rp´s...does that make thanes overpowered?

 

[belth]

Originally posted by nuky
so really alb should have a bolt range mez and every other realm have no viable way to get CC off before them.

yeah sure, that wouldnt be overpowered

Wouldn't need it if you didn't have the insta-shit

 

[nuky]

Originally posted by belth
Wouldn't need it if you didn't have the insta-shit

ah i see another 'make all realms the same' campaigner?

seems people will never be happy until it happens

really bad arguement u put forward btw

EDIT: spelling

 

[-Wedge-]

The easiest way to solve the insta-cc problem... Is to give Healers and Bards a limited 'Quickcast'(every minute instead of 30s and cant quickcast heal-spells, and tbh I couldnt even care if they COULD qc-heal spells)...

I'd also agree to giving them a bit faster AE-mez then sorcs... This is because of the lower dex on healers / bards... (Bard/Healer have, around 250? and a (good) sorc 300-330)... A result would be that Sorc mez be put back to 1500 range (or the healer/bard version increased)...

Now, if Mythic had done that instead of adding Instant-AECC (or increasing our range)... Things would have been 'ok'... We would only complain about Savages(or BD's ), but all of a sudden, due to the CC 'fix', Mid groups become a LOT easier...

But we all know it wont happen... 1850 range does have some advantages, but they only are an advantage if you get the jump on a mid/hib group... And not in a head-on collision... Perhaps its my 'bad driving', but that doesnt happen all that often...

 

[sorusi]

if i had a chance of landing mezz 50% of the time with old sorc configuration (w/o mota, 1500 range), and instas being FAR more powerfull back then.. simply atm

if healer uses insta mezz his group is dead vs an alb good grp, cos their tanks should have determination 4, and will be roaming around freely killing support members when there is not much that can stop them

and with the 1875 mezz, i lost about 2 mezz fights or so over 230k rps against high RR hibbs (RR8 - 10) and some high rr midds... while xanatea was leading. GET JUMP = WIN in the mezzing... and on the "getting jump" part both healers,bard,sorcs are just as good

actacully id say sorc is a bit supperior due to longer range (ie flanking someone at 1875 range, they wont even hear the cast sound, while at 1500 they will and can fast do a turn and instamezz if they are VERY quick

also qc:ing mezz with tanks on your arse is not an impossible task even with 2 savages or so on you its still possible to pull it off just before you die. (a QC mezz if it goes off is still 3x as usefull as a insta aoe mezz/stun -> since the aoe stun will only hold a few secs on those tanks you wont have time to mezz after anyway, since they will beak loose from it after 2sec )

head on collision.. this is what you want to AVOID, IF the midd grp runs at speed 6, you will have lots of problems getting off mezz, unless you stay inback of the tanks, let them charge and take the insta-mezz, while you cast aoe mezz on them

or if they are a bit slow like most ppl are its just to spam mezz from LOS, useing face and it will land 85% of the time against them

 

[sorusi]

Originally posted by Puppetmistress
http://www.camelotherald.com/chardisplay.php?s=Morgan&c=590241

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Not saying Soruzi doesn't know shit about Sorcerers. But I am saying that someone with 230k RP, not playing his sorc that often at all shouldn't really keep pretending to be all-knowing towards RR5+ sorcs who play their class alot more lately.

Soruzi might know a great deal about DAOC, but Wedge (=Magmatic) plays his sorc still and probably knows just as much if not more about sorcs then Sorusi.

Xeanor, very evil RR6 sorc on Prydwen tells you the same.

But no.... let's all think Soruzi is right and those sorcerers are wrong because Soruzi has played his sorc up to 230k a good time back. Just look at the facts for a minute :/

that was a few days of rvr, since we lost our minstrel/friar in our grp

 

[Puppetmistress]

Originally posted by sorusi
if i had a chance of landing mezz 50% of the time with old sorc configuration (w/o mota, 1500 range), and instas being FAR more powerfull back then.. simply atm

You cannot compare current RvR with RvR back then. We used theurgist-mezz (inferior range) alot and won battles alot. Simply by good driving, good spreadout and being fast. I can forget about mezzing anything with that now.

if healer uses insta mezz his group is dead vs an alb good grp, cos their tanks should have determination 4, and will be roaming around freely killing support members when there is not much that can stop them

No. They use insta. Result: Alb support is mezzed (for a 'small ammount of time') but there is NO mezz at that time on the Hib-group. So your Mid-tanks are now on the sorcerer who will die before landing his quickcast in the majority of cases.

actacully id say sorc is a bit supperior due to longer range (ie flanking someone at 1875 range, they wont even hear the cast sound, while at 1500 they will and can fast do a turn and instamezz if they are VERY quick

'Flanking' a Mid-group is highly unlikely because:

* Their movement-speed is very high while your movement speed is 0 (you need to stand still to cast the mezz). You need to time WHERE you will mezz and time where they will be. This takes abit of time, enough to get:

* Like Albs, Mids got pan-camera too. Simply pan-camera, immediatly speed 6 towards the Albs and insta... BAM! dead sorc.

also qc:ing mezz with tanks on your arse is not an impossible
task even with 2 savages or so on you its still possible to pull it off just before you die. (a QC mezz if it goes off is still 3x as usefull as a insta aoe mezz/stun -> since the aoe stun will only hold a few secs on those tanks you wont have time to mezz after anyway, since they will beak loose from it after 2sec )

If a RR5 2h-savage kills my friar in 8 seconds WHILE using IP on my friar I seriously doubt that sorcerer will land his mezz before dying.

head on collision.. this is what you want to AVOID, IF the midd grp runs at speed 6, you will have lots of problems getting off mezz, unless you stay inback of the tanks, let them charge and take the insta-mezz, while you cast aoe mezz on them

So what you want to avoid:

* Head on collision.
* Getting jumped.
* Close packed fights.

Basically you're saying Albs loose the CC-battle UNLESS they can surprise the enemy and/or ambush/flank them. WOW, superior CC from Albs. I hope you see the irony of your own story in this :/

or if they are a bit slow like most ppl are its just to spam mezz from LOS, useing face and it will land 85% of the time against them

Yeah we're so slow. Strange that when I play Hibernia our team always wins the mezz-battle against Albs unless we screw up.

It has nothing to do with skills, being slow or WHATEVER. It has to do with game-mechanics (speed6) and the tools available (insta-CC vs. cast CC on slightly longer range).

 

[benedictines]

Originally posted by nuky
ah i see another 'make all realms the same' campaigner?

seems people will never be happy until it happens

really bad arguement u put forward btw

EDIT: spelling

not the same - just a level playing field is all we ask for - thats not too much to ask for is it?

 

[sorusi]

albs can run at speed 6 too get a "real" paladin who got some RAs..

its hibbs that have problems running speed 6

oh and CC has ALOT with reaction speed to do and driveing ..

if you played prydwen when walker was around with his sorc you would know what a good sorc can do

and no, i dont say a sorc looses their mezzes, they can loose mezzing at milegate when passing thru, or when not playing attention

maybe your mezzer in hibb is better at playing CC than your mezzer on alb is ?


ALL leaders/CC:ers aim to outflank enemy grps if they want to win... there is no "attacking head on" it's totally stupid, and that is where most sorcs fail on excal

 

[sorusi]

It has nothing to do with skills <- this affects everything, in whaterver you do in life, and it is the same in online games

 

[Puppetmistress]

Originally posted by sorusi
albs can run at speed 6 too get a "real" paladin who got some RAs..

Yep, but they cannot CC during the Speed 6. Because it is a cast. See the difference?

its hibbs that have problems running speed 6

Not really. Just get a bard who knows no fear for RSI . All realms need atleast 2 characters to get Speed 6. Hibs can in theory do it with 1. They can also choose to run with 2 bards providing backup CC or backup healing. Whatever you please. They choose not to sacrifice a spot for end-regen, where Albs and Mids do.

oh and CC has ALOT with reaction speed to do and driveing ..

YES! That's why I said you shouldn't only look at the pure mesmerize-spells but also to the driving. While Albs, Mids and Hibs can get the same driving (Speed 6, equally skilled driver) I am saying Albs cannot mezz while running with Speed 6. They need to stop to cast.

if you played prydwen when walker was around with his sorc you would know what a good sorc can do

I've played with very good sorcs on Alb/Excal. I used to play a sorc on Lancelot but I cannot compare that, that was pre-SC and alot of stuff was very different. Alb and Mid didn't even have end-regen when I RvR'ed my sorc.

I am not comparing the past with current RvR. All I am saying is your view about the sorcerer-class is limited (due to your low experience in Albion RvR, 'a few days as you claim yourselves') and not based on current Excalibur RvR.

You say yourselves Albs loose CC in frontal collision. I say Albs loose CC when you both are surprised to meet the enemy (say over a hill) because an insta is then way faster.

So the only time Albs win the CC in our views are when they're flanking (which I agree with you) but that is very hard to do when your enemy is at Speed 6 and you need to STOP to CAST.

Then how exactly is the Sorcerer-mezz so superiour ? I just don't see why it is better?

 

[sorusi]

lol you think ALL healers use instas ALL the time, and never castable?..

my experience is based on old sorc, new sorc from mlf, playing hibb pryd/midd excal, i see what the sorcs do and how they royally fuck up

 

[Puppetmistress]

Originally posted by sorusi
It has nothing to do with skills <- this affects everything, in whaterver you do in life, and it is the same in online games

Yeah keep twisting my words. I said:

It has nothing to do with skills, being slow or WHATEVER. It has to do with game-mechanics (speed6) and the tools available (insta-CC vs. cast CC on slightly longer range).

 

[sorusi]

healer has to stop at speed 6 to cast aoe mezz too only "noob" healers use insta mezz 24/7.. insta mezz is LAST resort if you really fuck up at getting the jump etc.. - wich good healers usually dont


and how would bard be so alot easier to mezz with than sorc? due to it got singel insta mezz, aoe mezz? lull? (ok this one is great, but most cant use it)

 

[Puppetmistress]

Originally posted by sorusi
lol you think ALL healers use instas ALL the time, and never castable?..

No, all I said is that Healers have the tools to bypass that 'superior sorc-mezz' once every 10 minutes. Surely when the enemy sorc is fucking up you can use the castable. But how odd is it that every time I meet NP on Excalibur (dont play much there anymore btw) I see an insta-CC on my screen? Perhaps not the initial mezz, but in the fight I ALWAYS see an insta-CC on my screen IF I don't get killed immediatly.

Besides, having 4 CC's insta on a 10 minute timer is a guarantee that IF you screw your initial-CC you got enough get-out-of-jail wildcards.

my experience is based on old sorc, new sorc from mlf, playing hibb pryd/midd excal, i see what the sorcs do and how they royally fuck up

I've already shown your old sorc should not be compared since RvR changed alot. Your new sorc is hardly been active (a few days as you said).

That leaves you with great experience in Mid/Excal and Hib/Pryd. Yes, I agree alot of sorcerers royally fuck up. But can you atleast agree with me that in normal-RvR encounters the healer-CC is superior to the sorc-CC when you take into account: Healer his CC-line, healer his HP, healer his armour, healer his insta-heals ?

 

[Puppetmistress]

Originally posted by sorusi

and how would bard be so alot easier to mezz with than sorc? due to it got singel insta mezz, aoe mezz? lull? (ok this one is great, but most cant use it)

Bard his CC is different then Healer CC.

But in my opinion if we compare bard and sorcerer I would say AoE lull is a GREAT tool.

You disrupt the sorcerer his initial mezz (your mind goes blank and you forget what you're doing) . If used properly it is UBER.

One can even do..

Approach Albs, wait till you see sorc casting,press AoE-lull and insta mezz the sorc. Do a castable AoE-mezz on the rest and get rid of the sorc during the first few seconds. With an /assist team it is incredibly easy to kill a clothcaster while a more armoured person takes ABIT more time (except for pre 1.62 zerks )

 

[sorusi]

they are far supperior on surviveing yes but they are both as good in mezzing getting a jump on someone with 1875, range they wont have time to react,run towards + instamezz before being mezzed.. this is what sorcs have to do

also you say 4 insta CC:

singel mezz (the 3nd best insta, use on sorc/bard while castable mezzing rest of grp, bit worse than stun tho, since sorc/bard doesnt get castable mezz on them)
singel stun (the 2nd best insta, use on sorc/bard while castable mezzing rest of grp)
aoe stun (this is the "best" insta you have, usually for adds when you fight )
aoe mezz (this is VERY stupid to cast on a good grp, tank grps that is )

so basicly, they have "3" that they can use.. excludeing insta aoe mezz...

that with 2 of the 3 singel insta, they rely on landing it on the right person etc, and then doing castable too

and to do castable at 1500 range against tanks who sprint at you @ speed 6 is on the edge that you wont make the mezz so you need to get the drop on the grp to get a "smooth" mezz, ie same as the sorc has to do

 

[sorusi]

Originally posted by Puppetmistress
Bard his CC is different then Healer CC.

But in my opinion if we compare bard and sorcerer I would say AoE lull is a GREAT tool.

You disrupt the sorcerer his initial mezz (your mind goes blank and you forget what you're doing) . If used properly it is UBER.

One can even do..

Approach Albs, wait till you see sorc casting,press AoE-lull and insta mezz the sorc. Do a castable AoE-mezz on the rest and get rid of the sorc during the first few seconds. With an /assist team it is incredibly easy to kill a clothcaster while a more armoured person takes ABIT more time (except for pre 1.62 zerks )

instamezzing the sorc is the most stupidest thing you can do since you need it against healers as a bard


assist teams kill sorcs in 1sec, kills healer in 2sec, kills bard in 1.5sec

their 500hps more doesnt give them much more time to live for

 

[nuky]

Originally posted by benedictines
not the same - just a level playing field is all we ask for - thats not too much to ask for is it?

no of course its not - but from most of the replies here, they want one of 2 things.

mid instas taken away - leaving alb over powered with their would-be uber mez

or

take instas away and alb 1850 range mez - leaving everything the same

(or of course give alb instas aswell as their long range mez, yes that would be fair)

 

[sorusi]

imo, i wouldn't mind giveing insta mezz to sorcs wouldnt change much (aslong as they are 1500 range )

 

[old.Wildfire]

"healer has to stop at speed 6 to cast aoe mezz too only "noob" healers use insta mezz 24/7.."
explains why NP always (and I do mean always) run in, drop insta stun, then mezz...
ty for that.