1.89e hot and monster rezz adjustments :)

[Golena]

What minstrel love :|?

Technically other classes got nerfed and the minstrel didn't.
That means the minstrel is now better in relation to other classes than it used to be..

Sounds like love to me!!! All hail the minstrel love patch!

 

[leviathane]

thank fuck for the monster rezz nerf

 

[CorNokZ]

- Miss rates of bolt spells on the Eldritch, Wizard, Runemaster and Shaman Classes have been greatly reduced.

YES! I am FINALLY going to kill stuff !

 

[Manisch Depressiv]

thank fuck for the monster rezz nerf

Must be plenty of Heretics/Reavers/Wizards on Limors and plenty of people who break CC on Heretics or you wouldn't be QQ'ing here this way.

Let's face it, Heretic MR was the answer to all the lord room/roof clash bullshit Hibernia and Midgard has. The whiners didn't want to adapt and whined and got their way.

Monster is easily CC'able and if one didn't/couldn't want to CC it one should be killing the Clerics healing the monsters maybe instead of sitting in a lord room / on a tower roof farming a bazillion RPs by pressing PBAoE for x hours.

 

[Tuthmes]

Must be plenty of Heretics/Reavers/Wizards on Limors and plenty of people who break CC on Heretics or you wouldn't be QQ'ing here this way.

Let's face it, Heretic MR was the answer to all the lord room/roof clash bullshit Hibernia and Midgard has. The whiners didn't want to adapt and whined and got their way.

Monster is easily CC'able and if one didn't/couldn't want to CC it one should be killing the Clerics healing the monsters maybe instead of sitting in a lord room / on a tower roof farming a bazillion RPs by pressing PBAoE for x hours.

Yeh CC in a tower/keep situation with 2 zergs really works & the clerics are usually in some save place behind the zerg MR is stupid in a siege situation, it deserved a nerf.

 

[Cadelin]

Let's face it, Heretic MR was the answer to all the lord room/roof clash bullshit Hibernia and Midgard has. The whiners didn't want to adapt and whined and got their way.

I never understand why some albs claim that they (as a realm) needed Monster Rez to deal with hibs/mids? What is it that hibs and mids can do on a roof or in a lord room that an alb group can't?

 

[Manisch Depressiv]

Yeh CC in a tower/keep situation with 2 zergs really works & the clerics are usually in some save place behind the zerg MR is stupid in a siege situation, it deserved a nerf.

I'll repeat: You can try to CC it or try to kill the Clerics by rushing out and taking initiative or you can whine like a sheep and cry for a nerf while having (damage perspective) castable stun on two PBAoE'ers with one having access to red AoE con/str debuff, Bainshee CAoE backed up by shrooms. Add plenty of bodyguarding Wardens with TWF and some Champs ready with ST and tell me why Albion has to rely on way greater numbers or RR5/MoC3 Wizards and RR5 ML8/Reavers that rely on timers.

How many active Rejv Heretics on Albion btw taking all the keeps?

 

[Manisch Depressiv]

I never understand why some albs claim that they (as a realm) needed Monster Rez to deal with hibs/mids? What is it that hibs and mids can do on a roof or in a lord room that an alb group can't?

Beside of MoC AoE damage/interrupts, from Dyvet perspective when Albs want to get a lord room/tower roof and it's a stand off fight, I'd say:

Hibs: Easier to assemble more PBAoE'ers.

Mids: Healer AoE stun.

 

[Tuthmes]

I'll repeat: You can try to CC it or try to kill the Clerics by rushing out and taking initiative or you can whine like a sheep and cry for a nerf while having (damage perspective) castable stun on two PBAoE'ers with one having access to red AoE con/str debuff, Bainshee CAoE backed up by shrooms. Add plenty of bodyguarding Wardens with TWF and some Champs ready with ST and tell me why Albion has to rely on way greater numbers or RR5/MoC3 Wizards and RR5 ML8/Reavers that rely on timers.

How many active Rejv Heretics on Albion btw taking all the keeps?

Like i said CC doesnt work (well) in siege situations & rushing out is usually pure suicide. Grapple & you dont rush with a caster when 100+ are f8, nuke spamming.
Two pboa'rs/casters is nice and all, but they really doesnt work when the dot interrupts everytime.

Don't forget the theurg rr5 btw. Unpurgable stun that chains ^^

 

[Golena]

What is it that hibs and mids can do on a roof or in a lord room that an alb group can't?

From the patch where this will become live:

Enchanters PBAOE line contains heat debuff for baseline nuke, also pbaoe on elds.
Mids get self debuffing SM's in the PBAOE line and warlocks.
Albs get ice wizards.. useless in fg rvr!


Now for classes with aoe nukes (the ability to hit(and interupt) more than one target) if specced right.

Hib: enchanter, ment, eld, banshee, animist
Mid: SM, RM, warlock, thane, BD
Alb: Wizard, tic


Both mid and hib have access to insta pbaoe disease. Mid much more so.

Both mid and hib have access to insta aoe CC.
Mid has access to AOE stun.


If we are talking about the ability to camp a room/bridge, both mid and hib win hands down without monsters. This has been evident from the hundreds of times it happened before tic's were invented.

 

[Golena]

Two pboa'rs/casters is nice and all, but they really doesnt work when the dot interrupts everytime.

If you've only got 2 PB'ers then your probably camping with a FG. If you've only got a FG then learn not to break CC on the monster. If breaking CC is a problem, there's probably many more than 2 there!

 

[Reno]

From the patch where this will become live:

Enchanters PBAOE line contains heat debuff for baseline nuke, also pbaoe on elds.
Mids get self debuffing SM's in the PBAOE line and warlocks.
Albs get ice wizards.. useless in fg rvr!


Now for classes with aoe nukes (the ability to hit(and interupt) more than one target) if specced right.

Hib: enchanter, ment, eld, banshee, animist
Mid: SM, RM, warlock, thane, BD
Alb: Wizard, tic


Both mid and hib have access to insta pbaoe disease. Mid much more so.

Both mid and hib have access to insta aoe CC.
Mid has access to AOE stun.


If we are talking about the ability to camp a room/bridge, both mid and hib win hands down without monsters. This has been evident from the hundreds of times it happened before tic's were invented.

If you're talking about range ae nukes on those hib chars, you're stretching things a bit. Chanter has a pb only, and animist ae is on a bomber. A bomber is useless 50% of the time in a siege.
As for hibs insta disease. If you think an insta on a 5 min timer, on a char that's rarely at a siege , and has to spec for grp play to get it, is enough to warrant the note that hib has insta disease. You might as well add Albion to the insta CC column with an insta stun.

Danita

 

[Golena]

If you're talking about range ae nukes on those hib chars, you're stretching things a bit. Chanter has a pb only, and animist ae is on a bomber. A bomber is useless 50% of the time in a siege.

In room camps range is pretty much unimportant. After all the monster dot which is what we are discussing is pbaoe range only.

While the bomber is useless 50% of the time it can actually be used to great effect during a room charge, add it to the shroomz that are already down and it's alot of multiple target damage being put out.

Albions only AOE damage in those kind of situations comes from wizards, which arn't that plentiful.


I know I was stretching things with the hib pbaoe disease It's more an advantage of mid where the timer is very short and on a class there's plenty of.

 

[Tuthmes]

If you've only got 2 PB'ers then your probably camping with a FG. If you've only got a FG then learn not to break CC on the monster. If breaking CC is a problem, there's probably many more than 2 there!

ZzzzZz whas taking Manisch's example. could have a 1000 pboa'rs there, if there all interrupted they can't pboa.

 

[Cadelin]

From the patch where this will become live:

Enchanters PBAOE line contains heat debuff for baseline nuke, also pbaoe on elds.
Mids get self debuffing SM's in the PBAOE line and warlocks.
Albs get ice wizards.. useless in fg rvr!


Now for classes with aoe nukes (the ability to hit(and interupt) more than one target) if specced right.

Hib: enchanter, ment, eld, banshee, animist
Mid: SM, RM, warlock, thane, BD
Alb: Wizard, tic


Both mid and hib have access to insta pbaoe disease. Mid much more so.

Both mid and hib have access to insta aoe CC.
Mid has access to AOE stun.


If we are talking about the ability to camp a room/bridge, both mid and hib win hands down without monsters. This has been evident from the hundreds of times it happened before tic's were invented.

Albs also get necro's with pbaoe. And with the recent improvements to necro's they are a very viable class in rvr.

You also need to adjust your list of alb classes with aoe damage/interupts.
The cabalist has aoe disease and/or an ae dot.
The Cleric has aoe damage.
The Sorc has aoe mess or root for interupting too.

Other classes are the Mauler and Reaver with insta pbaoe interupts. You have access to banelord charge tanks just like everyone else and you also have ST and TWF just like everyone else.


You are however confusing two issues. Monster Res is primarily used to break up a tower camp. Having pbaoe classes generally doen't help that much compared to a decent bunch of tanks and a TWF. They can run in, interupt everyone , take a bit of damage but also deal out plenty too.

All realm tower camp. On Dyvet Albs clearly do the most tower humping. You know that if either mid or hib had had monster res it would have been nerfed.

 

[Gibbo]

In such a confined space it comes down to which side has the most pbaoe damage and the winners there are Hibs followed by Mids followed by Albs a long way back. Its why Hibs and Mids do keeps, towers and bridges so much better than Albs.

Being able to interupt in a keep seige isn't such an advantage, a Sorc cannot interupt a tank hitting him with a sword and any caster with MoC will use it.

Monster Rez was/is a nice leveller for Albs, but to honest the number of times at a keep take you see people as monsters stood at the bottom out of the way waiting for the effect to end because they don't want to die again is amazing. The other thing about it as well is that it is easy to combat, you can stop a monster quite easily by using any crowd control spell.

I would say the single most overpowered spell in a keep siege is Hib casters with Stun.

 

[noaim]

If you've only got 2 PB'ers then your probably camping with a FG. If you've only got a FG then learn not to break CC on the monster. If breaking CC is a problem, there's probably many more than 2 there!

1 monster goes up, gets cc´d, then 3 other tanks charge, u gotta start doing damage which will hit the mezzed monster too.

 

[Cadelin]

In such a confined space it comes down to which side has the most pbaoe damage and the winners there are Hibs followed by Mids followed by Albs a long way back. Its why Hibs and Mids do keeps, towers and bridges so much better than Albs.

Being able to interupt in a keep seige isn't such an advantage, a Sorc cannot interupt a tank hitting him with a sword and any caster with MoC will use it.

Monster Rez was/is a nice leveller for Albs, but to honest the number of times at a keep take you see people as monsters stood at the bottom out of the way waiting for the effect to end because they don't want to die again is amazing. The other thing about it as well is that it is easy to combat, you can stop a monster quite easily by using any crowd control spell.

I would say the single most overpowered spell in a keep siege is Hib casters with Stun.

Utter rubbish. You have contradicted yourself in your own post. If keep lord room fights are all about pbaoe damage like you said then keeping them interupted is the best way to win. You can't then claim that interupts are not very useful because you can't interupt a tank!

 

[Gibbo]

Utter rubbish. You have contradicted yourself in your own post. If keep lord room fights are all about pbaoe damage like you said then keeping them interupted is the best way to win. You can't then claim that interupts are not very useful because you can't interupt a tank!

Errr....you are totally misunderstanding what I typed.

 

[Cadelin]

Errr....you are totally misunderstanding what I typed.

Then explain again and don't contradict yourself.

 

[Danord_durin]

1 monster goes up, gets cc´d, then 3 other tanks charge, u gotta start doing damage which will hit the mezzed monster too.

No no no thats a lie. There is noone in a keep siege with 2-3 fgs in a lord room that will try and ae dmg on the ones inc and by mistake hit the monster. NEVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!111111111222222222233333333333

 

[Golena]

Albs also get necro's with pbaoe. And with the recent improvements to necro's they are a very viable class in rvr.

Your right in that I missed necro's.

If you look through the list of classes then look at regular group setups however you'll notice that the alb classes with aoe damage tend to be very PvE oriented, while the mid and hib ones contain many more classes that are actually likely to get a spot in RvR groups.
Compare the number of rvr ice wizards to mana chanters and you'll notice a big increase to hib at least on most servers.

I've ignored interupts primarily on the case that most seige situations, while they do on for a while tend to boil down to a single charge that either results in the attackers overcommitting and getting flushed out or the defenders getting overrun. A couple of AOE casters moccing or being free during this time is what actually wins or loses the fight.
Albs can charge in and blow banelords, but in a fight with 50 on each side they don't have the AOE damage to actually kill the defenders before they run out of banelords and are sitting ducks to the casters there. Hibs can run in with banelords but also take enough AOE damage with them to cause carnage during that charge.

In FG seige fights interupts will win you enough time to get enough of an advantage to win. In zerg warfare, which is where monsters are particularly a problem, it's all about concentrated damage at a single camp spot. Hibs and Mids win every time in this scenario. A good charge with MOC aoe damage = win.

 

[Septima]

Find it a lot more easy to deal with monsters rezzes on hib than mid, stun on baseline casters help a bit

 

[Muylaetrix]

i agree that monsters needed a nerf, but not without giving albs other stuff to compensate in lord room situation.

1 ice wiz vs 8+ mana chanters/mana eldrichtes/bianshees just ain`t fair.

1 ice wiz vs 4+ warlocks + sm`s just ain`t fair.

only way albs can take a defended lord room now is for that 1 or 2 ice wizards that still exist to group with 2-3 reavers and a friar + 2-3 revuj clerics and hope a zerg commes allong at the right time.

...

it was fair to nerf monster rezz, but albs need more pbaoe, and ae damge in general.

now nerf rezz insta CC, baseline stun and baseline lifetap and i am happy.

 

[Raven]

i agree that monsters needed a nerf, but not without giving albs other stuff to compensate in lord room situation.

1 ice wiz vs 8+ mana chanters/mana eldrichtes/bianshees just ain`t fair.

1 ice wiz vs 4+ warlocks + sm`s just ain`t fair.

only way albs can take a defended lord room now is for that 1 or 2 ice wizards that still exist to group with 2-3 reavers and a friar + 2-3 revuj clerics and hope a zerg commes allong at the right time.

...

it was fair to nerf monster rezz, but albs need more pbaoe, and ae damge in general.

now nerf rezz insta CC, baseline stun and baseline lifetap and i am happy.

1 SM or enchanter vs 8 ice wizards is not "fair" either



Your logic is stunning

 

[aika]

1 SM or enchanter vs 8 ice wizards is not "fair" either



Your logic is stunning

Count the number of SM's/WL's/Banshees/Chanters/Eldritches and compare them to amount of Ice Wizards.. I know hardly 2 ice wizards that are active in rvr..

 

[Bistrup666]

Count the number of SM's/WL's/Banshees/Chanters/Eldritches and compare them to amount of Ice Wizards.. I know hardly 2 ice wizards that are active in rvr..

oh yeah the sm's in rvr have such an uber pba.

Might see some pba sm's when patch hit tho.

 

[Gibbo]

Then explain again and don't contradict yourself.

Well you yourself pointed out that Sorcs have AE Mezz which I would say isn't very useful in a keep situation like a Lord room. In order for the Sorc to cast it, he is doing no damage, probably because of all the mayhem in there will have to use MoC to cast it, so if the Sorc is using MoC lets assume that the other casters in there have also used MoC, that makes a Sorc with AE Mezz useless. Then add in the tanks, and as I said you can't interupt a Tank.

The realm with the most PBAOE will win more keep fights and that is why Hibs find it so much easier to take a keep than any other realm.

And your point that Clerics have aoe damage is laughable, its in the Smite line which as everyone knows is the line that all clerics spec in....

 

[noaim]

Well you yourself pointed out that Sorcs have AE Mezz which I would say isn't very useful in a keep situation like a Lord room. In order for the Sorc to cast it, he is doing no damage, probably because of all the mayhem in there will have to use MoC to cast it, so if the Sorc is using MoC lets assume that the other casters in there have also used MoC, that makes a Sorc with AE Mezz useless. Then add in the tanks, and as I said you can't interupt a Tank.

The realm with the most PBAOE will win more keep fights and that is why Hibs find it so much easier to take a keep than any other realm.

And your point that Clerics have aoe damage is laughable, its in the Smite line which as everyone knows is the line that all clerics spec in....

But the mainargument for monsterrezz being ok is that "you can cc the monster" so AE mezz must be damn awesome for albs, since you can just cc the healers or whatever you need to cc, and noone ever breaks cc in tight packed areas.

 

[Manisch Depressiv]

But the mainargument for monsterrezz being ok is that "you can cc the monster" so AE mezz must be damn awesome for albs, since you can just cc the healers or whatever you need to cc, and noone ever breaks cc in tight packed areas.

CC the Healers sitting above the Lord room who have CC themself? No to mention you have to run through shitloads of damage on a Caster to get to them first.

:touch: