1.88a patch notes

[Kerig]

im a casual player and i think its a great idea to be able to buy ML's with BP. i have a ton of level 50 ML1 toons that i never play because i dont have the time to spend doing ML/arti raids. i will defos play them more in RvR if i can slowly gain ML's and gear as well as RA's.

dont see why it should kill PvE either, as long as there are enough people who like PvE there will always be PvE raids, now the casual players have more choice and thats a good thing.

totally agree with Darzil that the rps for defensive RvR, repairs, etc should be greatly increased as well mind. if someones decent enough to spend an hour repairing a wall, they should get similar rp to if theyd gone off killing.

 

[OohhoO]

I lived for RvR until about a month after ToA, when I realised what an effect it's toys would have on RvR. NF was just the disaster after the damage had already been done. RvR has never been fun for me since then.

I'm starting to think I'm playing the wrong game now. I hate LotM. 1.87 is a disaster. 1.88 looks like being another one. Maybe it's time for me to move on, as I'm obviously not in tune with Mythics current thinking.

 

[Shike]

I lived for RvR until about a month after ToA, when I realised what an effect it's toys would have on RvR. NF was just the disaster after the damage had already been done. RvR has never been fun for me since then.

I'm starting to think I'm playing the wrong game now. I hate LotM. 1.87 is a disaster. 1.88 looks like being another one. Maybe it's time for me to move on, as I'm obviously not in tune with Mythics current thinking.

If you hate LoTM and think 1.87 is a disaster then yea, maybe you should look for something else.

Mind me asking though, why exactly do you think RVR isnt fun anymore? Is it the boating? The endless sieges? The horrendous bridgecampers? What?

 

[Maeloch]

I see where people are coming from when they say that this will encourage loads of unopted, roglord, low RR randoms to go to RvR, however look at the attitudes of players in this game, people don't go to RvR until they are 'ready'. That used to mean being level 35+ back in the day, then it meant being level 50 then it meant having Epic, then it meant being fully SCed. You get the picture. When ToA came out I am sure Mythic intended us to be running around in RvR with level 1 artifacts earning MLxp and arti xp from RvR. We players though went 'stuff that' and didn't even consider RvRing until we had our arties at 10 and a decent spread of MLs under our belts. The bar was raised and this isn't going to lower it again. New RvR characters are not competitive now when they have all this stuff to start with, they are going to be even less competitive when they have to start without it and earn it the hard way. That will eventually hurt the RvR scene as less people will be able to join it.

I dunno, there's *never* been any grind in the game comparable to the ML grind. I think alot of peeps would rather cut their thumbs off than go thru it and will go out before their toon is 'finished'. I always go out myself anyhow, get some rps to make the pve easier, some ideas on template priorities, hopefully more will.

I also agree with shike that what will prolly happen is peeps mix encounters and rvr to get thru it all quickly and with least effort.

 

[chretien]

I dunno, there's *never* been any grind in the game comparable to the ML grind.

40+ pre SI. I would have cried for joy if I could have swapped ML raids for sitting at the trees in Lyonesse...

 

[OohhoO]

If you hate LoTM and think 1.87 is a disaster then yea, maybe you should look for something else.

Mind me asking though, why exactly do you think RVR isnt fun anymore? Is it the boating? The endless sieges? The horrendous bridgecampers? What?

It's too fast.
There used to be room for strategy & tactics & now it's just a question of numbers/classes/RR & most of all who has which I-Win-buttons up.

 

[Raven]

My RR4l8 cleric who's not spent any BPs that I can think of on other stuff has just slightly shy of 10k BPs.



That is correct. You get 1 RSP per level after 20 on top of any you get from RR.


RvR is Realm versus Realm. i.e. Helping your realm to fight an enemy realm. You're thinking of PvP which is a part of RvR but isn't all of it. BPs are only awarded for PvP not for RvR generally.

I see where people are coming from when they say that this will encourage loads of unopted, roglord, low RR randoms to go to RvR, however look at the attitudes of players in this game, people don't go to RvR until they are 'ready'. That used to mean being level 35+ back in the day, then it meant being level 50 then it meant having Epic, then it meant being fully SCed. You get the picture. When ToA came out I am sure Mythic intended us to be running around in RvR with level 1 artifacts earning MLxp and arti xp from RvR. We players though went 'stuff that' and didn't even consider RvRing until we had our arties at 10 and a decent spread of MLs under our belts. The bar was raised and this isn't going to lower it again. New RvR characters are not competitive now when they have all this stuff to start with, they are going to be even less competitive when they have to start without it and earn it the hard way. That will eventually hurt the RvR scene as less people will be able to join it.

i agree with some of what you say, however i think this patch is an attempt to get old players back rather than tempting new players. there aren't new players coming to the game, its about time people realised that. it makes more sense to attract the old players back. these people may be playing WoW now or whatever, GOA have to tell them that they dont have to go through TOA hell to have fun in daoc endgame. besides, i assure you, people will get RR4L5 (or whatever gives enough for ml10) a hell of a lot faster than getting ml10/artifacts.


Anyway, GOA/Mythic, get off your lazy arses and tell everyone you can about this patch and fgs give them a free month as a carrot.

 

[Raven]

It's too fast.
There used to be room for strategy & tactics & now it's just a question of numbers/classes/RR & most of all who has which I-Win-buttons up.

there is still all that, if not more...i guess it depends what sort of pvp you are into.

 

[Shike]

It's too fast.
There used to be room for strategy & tactics & now it's just a question of numbers/classes/RR & most of all who has which I-Win-buttons up.

ah, well that is quite true in most cases :/

 

[Panzer]

If you stop and think about it for a moment, ever since toa mythic have given the ability to get (say champ levels) through RVR or PVE, thereby giving the choice as to how the progress.

Everyone likes this decision, cos we werent forced into doing more PVE to compete in RVR.

Mythic has just expanded this concept to now included TOA. I for one think this is hugely positive step forward.

 

[chretien]

i agree with some of what you say, however i think this patch is an attempt to get old players back rather than tempting new players. there aren't new players coming to the game, its about time people realised that. it makes more sense to attract the old players back. these people may be playing WoW now or whatever, GOA have to tell them that they dont have to go through TOA hell to have fun in daoc endgame.

Whan I say 'new players' I mean new characters in RvR. Whether they are actual honest to goodness new peeps, people who have played a while and don't RvR much or RvR peeps who have rerolled a new character. They are going to be easy RPs for existing RvR characters who will not only have the normal RR advantage but will also have better kit and ML abilities to give them an almost guaranteed win. As things stand you can go to RvR with a new character and the 'only' disadvantage you can't match beforehand is the RR imbalance. With this patch it puts the new RvR characters three steps back which is going to make it much harder for people to start RvRing.

Who does this patch benefit? High RR characters who don't have all the MLs and arties they want. How many people is that?

besides, i assure you, people will get RR4L5 (or whatever gives enough for ml10) a hell of a lot faster than getting ml10/artifacts.

I put about 10 artifacts on my Scout in a day (about 6hrs play all told) without bots, without farm characters, just me and 2-3 guild friends did them all over a couple of afternoons. People who lead a lot of raids have already said how long they expect a raid to take, if you can play all weekend you can join a rush and get that done in a weekend too. Let's call it 30 hours total to ToA up which I think is quite fair. I doubt you'd earn the 27k BPs for ML10 that fast let alone whatever you need for artis and scrolls.

 

[Flimgoblin]

hmm, I'm not sure I see it quite so negatively as a lot of the posters here do, in fact I'd say it's less of a blow to the pve game than the previous set of ToA changes.

The costs themselves might need to be tweaked, but because of how much it is it means that getting MLs from RvR bounty points should be at least as much effort as getting MLs from PvE (unless you've got a handy gank group to RP-PL you of course).

It will still be easier to get MLs from PvE, assuming people still run the raids, but what it should allow is if you purely do RvR you can still get them.

It _would_ be a huge boon to the current high RR characters if it wasn't for the fact that almost all of them already have all the PvE stuff.

Now all we need is RPs from PvE or at the very least something to make the RvR game more like an RvR game than team deathmatch.

 

[OohhoO]

It's not like RvR is really a challenge for a RR10+ toon to pharm lowbies etc.

It would be much more of a challenge if every L50 automatically got RR13 & gradually LOST RRs & therefore also LOST RAs as they steadily gained RPs. You'd have to really respect any RR1 toon under those conditions.

 

[Gamah]

hmm, I'm not sure I see it quite so negatively as a lot of the posters here do, in fact I'd say it's less of a blow to the pve game than the previous set of ToA changes.

The costs themselves might need to be tweaked, but because of how much it is it means that getting MLs from RvR bounty points should be at least as much effort as getting MLs from PvE (unless you've got a handy gank group to RP-PL you of course).

It will still be easier to get MLs from PvE, assuming people still run the raids, but what it should allow is if you purely do RvR you can still get them.

It _would_ be a huge boon to the current high RR characters if it wasn't for the fact that almost all of them already have all the PvE stuff.

Now all we need is RPs from PvE or at the very least something to make the RvR game more like an RvR game than team deathmatch.

Flim you naughty mod, have you been removing my posts again?

 

[Aiteal]

TOA has been the subject of more selective memory and revisionism than anything else in this game; people started leaving after NF, not TOA.

why are classic servers so popular then?
granted they have ranged buffs/no buffbots
but that has very little effect on people who play in groups
and the game is awash with self buffing classes for those who like to play solo visable classes

their popularity is primarily due to a lack of the OP'ed crap ToA gave us
and that folks don't have to do mind numbing PvE after dinging lvl50 to get ML's, get artifact credit, farm scrolls and then xp artifacts by killing mobs whose names start with E, but don't end in T and are deamonic but not humanoid

mythic have admitted in countless interviews that ToA in it's initial PvE heavy inception was not good for business
this patch goes some way to redress that

I fail to see the problem that the PvE crowd have with this patch
PvE already has lots of things that unvailable for people who want to play an RvR game
%Block
%Evade
reactionary style damage bonus
bladeturn reinforcement
tinderboxes
etc etc etc


those are all PvE only enhancements, all added to make PvE more enjoyable for those who prefer that sort of thing

I'm just glad I will from now on have to do a minimum of PvE to play a game that attracted me with something I had not experienced before
namely RvR

 

[Flimgoblin]

Flim you naughty mod, have you been removing my posts again?

not me guv

 

[Dard]

The population didn't start to decline until NF. TOA is just a convenient scapegoat for people.

The population actually started to decline after ToA, NF is just a convenient scapegoat for some people.

 

[Pirkel]

why are classic servers so popular then?
[..]

They're not

 

[Gamah]

The population actually started to decline after ToA, NF is just a convenient scapegoat for some people.

Dard...!<O!>!>!>!>!>

 

[wittor]

Maybe you're playing a different TOA. I remember the night TOA went live, wandering around Anatole.../as wasn't full of RvR whiners going "WAAA WAAA I HAVE TO PVE WAAAA" it was full of everyone going "wow cool, look at all the shiny new stuff".

TOA has been the subject of more selective memory and revisionism than anything else in this game; people started leaving after NF, not TOA.

Yes that is true, the first days everyone said that.

But I have to agree with Shike, I personally lost a lot of friends due ToA and after 3 or 4 weeks into ToA my whole guild quitted along with other old guilds and alot of enemies that used to give a hell of a good fight were gone to and that was way before NF, I found it really bad because it were people where I had alot of fun with and I spoke or played every day with them and suddenly they are all gone because of ToA and NOT NF.

They realised how much time it took etc and left for a different game or just didn't played anything. A few came back ( 3 people came back lol ) after toa was more easy but still not everyone because you still had to be on ML raids etc.

I think 1.88 is good, maybe some old players and friends are coming back again, I guess most of them won't have a hard time to buy the ML's since they went through a few ML's and are high rr.

For me it would be great aswell I have like 2 chars that are not fully ML'ed and I cba to go on a raid again for the xx of time and I don't have the time for it because of my work I'm always away during the week to some different countries. The only play times that I have is on the weekend then I can play like 4 hours on the weekend days before I go out and sometimes 1 day in the week which I don't wanne spend in PvE to be honest. So I look really forward to the next patch!

 

[OohhoO]

Mind me asking though, why exactly do you think RVR isnt fun anymore? Is it the boating? The endless sieges? The horrendous bridgecampers? What?

I think the major reason tho is I can't get more than 30 seconds away from any keep without getting ganked by some group of tossers 5-10 RRs higher than me who all claim on FH that they never add, never gank soloers, & are always looking for a fair fight. Every time I go to the frontier I ask myself "Why am I doing this to myself?", & 30 seconds later I'm back at the portal keep knowing it'll be much longer before I'm stupid enough to go there again.

 

[cHodAX]

I think the major reason tho is I can't get more than 30 seconds away from any keep without getting ganked by some group of tossers 5-10 RRs higher than me who all claim on FH that they never add, never gank soloers, & are always looking for a fair fight. Every time I go to the frontier I ask myself "Why am I doing this to myself?", & 30 seconds later I'm back at the portal keep knowing it'll be much longer before I'm stupid enough to go there again.

...and that is why I quit DAoC, RvR is a pale shadow of it's former self and it completly punishes new players because of all the toys given to the high realm rank players. Now they get ML10 free as well, classy thing to do Mythic, what next godmode at RR12?

 

[Leahc]

With it harder to get into groups at low RR due to having few ML's/Arties either, the zerg will be the only way for many to get outfitted, so look forward to more zerging.

True.
Massive adding on 1vs1 and 8vs8 fights.
Enjoy!


Personally I would prefer changes like these:

http://vnboards.ign.com/daoc_general_board/b5176/101510492/p1/?1

Just need adding, earing BP in BG's, and a change to all ML encounters, with focus on making it doable in much less time.
Think that would be better for hardcore RvR people, PvE'ers, new players and the game in the end.

Making it all easy mode gives some unwanted sideeffects. Example: Before Artifacts was changed to "you only need encounter and scrolls", we had a modded Eriny+Jascina raid on Midgard - hosted by a very very kind Dwarf.

And it was really enjoyable, I didnt go there only to get the artifacts, but to have fun. Those raids and the two weekly ML10 raids was something nice to look forward to, and a great opertunity to talk with other players in less formal and stressed way than in RvR.

/Leahc

 

[Ormorof]

I think the major reason tho is I can't get more than 30 seconds away from any keep without getting ganked by some group of tossers 5-10 RRs higher than me who all claim on FH that they never add, never gank soloers, & are always looking for a fair fight. Every time I go to the frontier I ask myself "Why am I doing this to myself?", & 30 seconds later I'm back at the portal keep knowing it'll be much longer before I'm stupid enough to go there again.

hehe its the age old scenario... "im always looking for a fair fight... as long as im going to win"