1.88a patch notes

[Darzil]

Assasin missions...happy hunting

I get more rp's from people who jump me whilst I'm doing assassin missions than doing assassin missions. Personally, I don't mind it, but I know people that hate rvr and don't go into the frontier, no way for them to get Rps.

It appears that Mythic realise this, as they'll be letting people gain all the rewards via rvr or pve in Warhammer.

It certainly looks from the bp prices quoted as if it'll be quicker to get ML's in an rvr group than on an ML raid. And a lot faster to buy scrolls than farm them. And that's an rvr gimp talking!

Darzil

 

[Pirkel]

This will kill DAoC PvE completely making it a nearly 100% RvR game. Seriously the next step is that they start removing xp caps making it easier to pl chars... and after that they will just add npc's to have instant level 50's.

Great for the RvR players. Less great for the people who like the mix and a disaster to the people who play it just for the PvE.

Edit. Oh and givf realmpoint granting drops from ML bosses now ... it is only fair!

 

[Tijl]

I guess these changes are good if you like RvR.
Personally I think it's a game-killer for me cos I don't like RvR in it's current incarnation.
It would've been better to fix the bad things in RvR than make PvE pointless IMO.

I'm a pve player myself, but I love the changes in the hope that it may bring more ppl to the server. Perhaps it wouldn't be a bad idea to see the opposite happening too, like 10p for 5k rp or something alike.

About the 'fix bad things in RvR' , Mythic told they'll be working on that too this year. Info to be found : http://www.classesofcamelot.com/news.asp?id=578 , so RvR revamp is in 1.89 .

 

[Sorin]

http://img118.imageshack.us/img118/3271/dogqe2.jpg

Complete Master Level 1 Credit [1410 BP]
Complete Master Level 2 Credit [1230 BP]
Complete Master Level 3 Credit [3360 BP]
Complete Master Level 4 Credit [2640 BP]
Complete Master Level 5 Credit [1605 BP]
Complete Master Level 6 Credit [2730 BP]
Complete Master Level 7 Credit [2145 BP]
Complete Master Level 8 Credit [3145 BP]
Complete Master Level 9 Credit [3420 BP]
Complete Master Level 10 Credit [4800 BP]

PS. You can buy individual steps as well for prices ranging from 15 BP to 800+BP.

ROFL ml10 inc@rr4 or so? :0 lol lol all those bps on my ns hmm lovely

Oh my fucking gawwd!!


Thats insta ml 10 on my arms, merc, wiz and necro


You sure someone didn't mess with it? its in paint shop afterall

 

[Svartmetall]

The only logical thing to do now is make RPs gainable from pure PvE-zone PvE. Fair's fair. If people who think PvE is beneath them - or just can't be bothered to put in the effort - can now get PvE rewards without making a single bit of PvE effort to get them, then we'll damn well have RPs attainable without having to go and endure RvR. That's the only fair and balanced thing to do now.

Why not just play a PvEgame?

Why don't RvR people just play Counter-Strike?

where's Svart to cry doooom and how unfair this is

DOOOOM!

Actually...it is unfair, very unfair, if they don't do the honourable thing and make pure PvE give RPs now.

If someone wanna go RvR and only RvR and get some util in a char as a PvElover, then why not?

If someone wants to get RAs for their character as a PvE lover, why not?

And don't give me that 'assassin mission' crap, I'm talking actual PvE, not "you'll have to go out and get ganked but you're killing an NPC so we'll pretend it's PvE". If you can now go gank for a while and come back and go "I'd like ML10 please", then I should be able to go shred a ton of mobs somewhere and come back and go "I'd like RR10 please".
That's the only fair way to balance things now, and anyone trying to deny this is fairly obviously being very hypocritical.
At the moment the RvR-only people are going "it's great, I get stuff for free" - well, they can't in all conscience then turn round to people who don't like RvR and say "ahh but you shouldn't get what I like for free, it's only good when I get what you like for free."

If RvR gives all the PvE rewards for free, then PvE should give all the RvR rewards for free, too. You can't have it both ways.

 

[Shike]

This will kill DAoC PvE completely making it a nearly 100% RvR game. Seriously the next step is that they start removing xp caps making it easier to pl chars... and after that they will just add npc's to have instant level 50's.

Great for the RvR players. Less great for the people who like the mix and a disaster to the people who play it just for the PvE.

Edit. Oh and givf realmpoint granting drops from ML bosses now ... it is only fair!

this I just dont understand, what exactly is it that stops you and everyone else from PvE-ing with these changes? All it does is adding in the option to do things via RvR instead of farming for hours. I read that as, either go out in the frontiers and have some fun meanwhile or farm mindless NPC's. Now, unless you belong to Custodia Malacata you will perhaps think RvR vs real enemies is more fun rather than farming mindless mobs, if this now is the case, then what exactly is it that is so bad with it?

I mean, IF people think the RvRoption is more fun then thats what they will do ye? IF people think the PvEoption is more fun they will do that. The followupquestion here is ofc, if its fun then please explain to me why its a bad thing? It is ultimately supposed to be fun to play DAoC I think, at least thats why I play, for me this change simply means its more of the fun part and less of the drag with PvE which is more than welcome ofc.

Is it the opposite for you, that you rather do PvE than RvR? Then by all means mate, go PvE! Noone's gonna stop you I think the hidden reason for the whines here actually is selfishness. Its the same old discussion thats been going on for years... the pvefreaks goes: If you want a piece of my cake, then you better fucking sit at the table for a while, even if you think its boring *smirks*. Oh no you, DONT you DARE go out there having fun with MY tools that YOU think is a drag to get, you MUST, MUST! be bored to get a piece of my holy cake. OR else!!!! I want a piece of YOUR!! cake.. GIF RPS FOR MOBS! WAaaaaaAAAA!!! I CANT RVR!! WAAAA!!! REALMpoints?! wtf, SO WHAT IF ITS FOR DEFENDING THE REALM!! MOBS ARE DANGEROUS CREATURES!!!!

Using bountypoints the realm pays for services like MLs from the masters or for scrolls is a excellent idea, imo

 

[Shike]

haha, I just read Svarts post and well, thats exactly what I mean

 

[Shike]

Why don't RvR people just play Counter-Strike?

some do I dont like CS much though since I got bored with FPSgames after Q3. Why should I play a game I dont like? You can still play the game you like and nobody is stopping you at all.

If RvR gives all the PvE rewards for free, then PvE should give all the RvR rewards for free, too. You can't have it both ways.

Oh really? Mythic doesnt seem to agree with you, use the feedback form on Herald and whine to them. The day killing silly mobs = RPs, I will just laugh But, mind you, I wont whine about it and think its unfair, I'll just laugh.

 

[Darzil]

Oh really? Mythic doesnt seem to agree with you, use the feedback form on Herald and whine to them. The day killing silly mobs = RPs, I will just laugh But, mind you, I wont whine about it and think its unfair, I'll just laugh.

Well, they may agree, being able to get everything from PvE or RvR is a stated design goal for Warhammer. They have after all noticed that RvR is Mythic's speciality, but PvE is what brings in huge numbers of players, thus the bucks. Whether they bring what they've learned to Camelot is another question entirely.

Darzil

 

[Pirkel]

The day killing silly mobs = RPs, I will just laugh But, mind you, I wont whine about it and think its unfair, I'll just laugh.

Well that is exactly what the people who stuck with it and got their chars ml10 the hard way are saying now.

Why would RvR players get the monopoly on letting their RvR grind pay off in the form of PvE love... why is simply turning that around something that makes you laugh?

I have RvR chars with decent rr's... I have PvE chars with full templates and ml's... and I have a couple of mains with both... if they would allow PvE-->RvR AND RvR-->PvE that means all my chars get "normalized" and meet each other in the middle ... what is so weird about that?

 

[Svartmetall]

There's an enormous double-standard going on here.

RvR person: "You have to RvR to get RPs, it's the only way."
PvE person: "But I'm RR1, you guys are RR10, it's hopeless!"
RvR: "Ahh, but all we had to start at RR1, so you'll just have to get ganked for ages too."
PvE: "But you just got ML10 for free by talking to a merchant, you've never even gone into a TOA zone!"
RvR: "That's completely different, I just couldn't be bothered to do the MLs. Now get out here in the frontiers so I can gank you."

Why should I play a game I dont like? You can still play the game you like and nobody is stopping you at all.

This exactly what I mean. Right here. You don't like PvE, so you don't do it, but you think being given the rewards from the things you haven't done is just great. Yet at the same time you're saying you don't think it should work in reverse - that people who don't like what you like shouldn't get the rewards from things they haven't done.

In fact, let's use your own words to prove the point.

"the pvefreaks goes: If you want a piece of my cake, then you better fucking sit at the table for a while, even if you think its boring *smirks*.

Well, after the first batch of 1.88 patch notes the RvR freaks are going "if you want a piece of my cake, then you have to sit at my table. But I don't have to sit at your table any more to get all your cake. LAWLZ!"

WAaaaaaAAAA!!! I CANT RVR!! WAAAA!!!

..."can't" RvR? Maybe, as you seem to be with PvE ("Why should I play a game I dont like", remember, your words), they just don't like it?

 

[Shike]

Well, they may agree, being able to get everything from PvE or RvR is a stated design goal for Warhammer. They have after all noticed that RvR is Mythic's speciality, but PvE is what brings in huge numbers of players, thus the bucks. Whether they bring what they've learned to Camelot is another question entirely.

Darzil

aye, hence the "seems" Who knows, in 1.89 they may let mobs give RPs too so everyone can ding rr12 with ease. Dont get me wrong btw, I dont hate PvE as such, Im just tired of DAoCs crappy form of PvE. (if it was good PvE where you actually needed to use the brain for abit then ye, its a different thing)

Well that is exactly what the people who stuck with it and got their chars ml10 the hard way are saying now.

Why would RvR players get the monopoly on letting their RvR grind pay off in the form of PvE love... why is simply turning that around something that makes you laugh?

I have RvR chars with decent rr's... I have PvE chars with full templates and ml's... and I have a couple of mains with both... if they would allow PvE-->RvR AND RvR-->PvE that means all my chars get "normalized" and meet each other in the middle ... what is so weird about that?

Because in RvR, killing an enemy is something you usually have to work for, nobody wanna die with ease, killing mobs in PvE is braindead activity and far far too easy. MLs and everything completely stupified PvE. Its apples and oranges in my book, you perhaps see it different but, thats how I see it anyway and thats why I would laugh. Ive PvE'd more than most and I still dont want any RPs for it, I really dont want it and I dont expect it, the point with realmpoints which comes from one the cores in DAoC, realmwar, would go completely lost then, PvE has no real point as such, there is no real goal that is hard to achive. One can argue that ML10 is such a goal but cmon.. you can do MLrushes in a weekend and grpsteps during the same week, do alil PvE and ding ml9, finish with ml10 in an evening and its done. CL5.. well, thats not even hard with questing+some pve while xping artis/farming + rvr = CL5 very fast. If we look at it all from another perspective, why PvE? I PvE purely for RvR as is. I used to find it fun to own a couple hundred plats for some reason (dont ask em why, I think i have a hidden hoarder in me^^) and I farmed for that a while too but it got boring, Ive PvE'd while helping friends, Ive PvEd when RvR was dull too. But, sum of it is that I dont think DAoC is a good enough PvEgame at all to give rewards that is given from pure PvP. If it was, then sure, its another discussion then

 

[Pirkel]

Svartmetal should be crowned King for the World for that post.

:worthy:

And Shike:

Apples and Oranges in deed... I don't have the courage to get into this discussion with you. Your views are SO extremely far removed from mine that I don't think we will reach an agreement. So I'll leave this one to his royal pwness King Svart

 

[Svartmetall]

*stands at the prow of the Titanic with his arms spread*

*realises that this makes him look like Leonardo DiCaprio and fucking kills himself*

 

[Levin]

Svartmetal should be crowned King for the World for that post.

:worthy:

And Shike:

Apples and Oranges in deed... I don't have the courage to get into this discussion with you. Your views are SO extremely far removed from mine that I don't think we will reach an agreement. So I'll leave this one to his royal pwness King Svart

From someone who hasn't played the game in about a year, so feels somewhat unbiased; I can only agree with Svart and Pirkel on this one. It's fairly obvious, in my eyes.

 

[OohhoO]

this I just dont understand, what exactly is it that stops you and everyone else from PvE-ing with these changes?

How do you think someone who doesn't like RvR is gonna get any MLs if this goes live?
There'll never be enough people for an ML-raid ever again.
There'll never be enough people for the tougher artefacts either.
Or any of the other harder PvE mobs.
People who don't like RvR will never again be able to achieve lots of PvE goals, whereas those who enjoy RvR will be able to get it all.
It's an absolute game-stopper for people who only enjoy PvE.

 

[Shike]

There's an enormous double-standard going on here.

RvR person: "You have to RvR to get RPs, it's the only way."
PvE person: "But I'm RR1, you guys are RR10, it's hopeless!"
RvR: "Ahh, but all we had to start at RR1, so you'll just have to get ganked for ages too."
PvE: "But you just got ML10 for free by talking to a merchant, you've never even gone into a TOA zone!"
RvR: "That's completely different, I just couldn't be bothered to do the MLs. Now get out here in the frontiers so I can gank you."

In DAoC, the only way to get RPs is from beeing out in the frontiers and do something there, be it missions or killing enemys, real enemys of the realm.
What you also forget I think is that most of us, most.. Have ML10 since before, some of us nutcases have a ton of ML10s. I dunno but, dont you think its getting a tad.. boring to do the same thing over and over again? One of the good things in DAoC is the choice of classes to play, many types of different casters, tanks, etc.. Doing the same MLsteps over and over and over and over again is getting really really boring. Thats one of the reasons I never really rolled my highlandermeleescout.. I just cant be arsed because after doing MLs a shitload of times, I just cant be arsed. If you cant be arsed to go out in RvR or find it boring because you already got 7 rr10's, then ok, its the same type of reasoning. Otherwise its not. I honestly dont know what chars or RRs or anything u actually have and I really dont care about such things anymore either so dont think im prejudiced because I assume you havent grinded RvR enough for say, 7 rr10's or even more. rr10 is a real goal, ml10 is also a real goal, compare the two and see how different they actually are, first and foremost in the time it takes to actually reach it, as a anybody, not superleet joe with ubergrp of doom making 1mill a week.

And your assumtion about ganking is just biased and silleh :> I usually seek challenges and fair fights, ganking is something others can do but its not my cup of tea. Winning with 100:1 in my favour is dull, actually as dull as pve

This exactly what I mean. Right here. You don't like PvE, so you don't do it, but you think being given the rewards from the things you haven't done is just great. Yet at the same time you're saying you don't think it should work in reverse - that people who don't like what you like shouldn't get the rewards from things they haven't done.

I do do it. And I dont ask for any reward for it either since I think it would be silly :> As I said before somewhere, 31lvl50's, dozens of ML10s and well, well over a mithril farmed in total cash.. I think ive PVEd enough to qualify for a PvEfreak. I have also RvRd quite alot too, in short, Ive played DAoC Never would I ask for Rps for PvE.

Well, after the first batch of 1.88 patch notes the RvR freaks are going "if you want a piece of my cake, then you have to sit at my table. But I don't have to sit at your table any more to get all your cake. LAWLZ!"

You have whined about RPs for Pve for ages now, actually, years. Havent it ever struck you that perhaps, just perhaps, Mythic just dont want it that way? Maybe they want realmpoints to mean realmpoints, points that you get for killing something more than stupid mobs. Bountypoints is also something you get from RvR and in my eyes, its something you get from doing something for your realm in the ongoing war out there. There is no war vs the mobs.. However, I can actually see a reason to give bountypoints for bossmobs :>

What exactly with PvE is it that you think is so hard and challenging, so that it actually is worth more than money, drops, experiencepoints and something to do while chatting on /gu? This is what I actually find funny

 

[rampant]

1.88 will be called the pve killer. Whilst i agree with the fact that they need to make pve better / easier / more accessible to a full group or need less than a zerg to complete, Mythic have just completely killed pve.

 

[Shike]

And Shike:

Apples and Oranges in deed... I don't have the courage to get into this discussion with you. Your views are SO extremely far removed from mine that I don't think we will reach an agreement. So I'll leave this one to his royal pwness King Svart

muu :< Well, ok fair enuff.

 

[knighthood]

Hahahahha we wont evn get this patch for like a year and a half, whatre u worried about , server closed or well all be in warhammer or speakin german if avalon isnt shut down by then too

And i think the changes r a little bollox, while i do agree people shuldnt have to pve stupid amounts to be rvr rdy , this pretty much makes toa pointless.

But hey im a noob what do i know

 

[Pirkel]

Thinking about this some more.

I have loads of chars that have enough bp's for ML10/full Template... however they all have ML10/full template already. So 0 benefit from the new rules.

I have loads of chars who need ml's and artifacts... but they all have hardly any bounty points. Because it will be hard to get these bounty points without a full template and master levels (this is what the RvR community has said since the release of TOA anyway) I am not likely to benefit much from this at all on these characters either.

So what is the point anyway?

Unless we say that doing tough PvE abilities gives me bounty points and realm points. Because then my half templated characters have a choice to run some ML raids... getting ml credit and bounty points to buy more ml credit as well as helping others getting this as well. And by the time I enter RvR fully ml'd and templated I might have some realm abilities to use as well!

Heck it would almost make it look like daoc would still be an MMORPG... having to group up with your fellow realm mates to accomplish things and stuff... shock horror!

Seriously I see where Mythic are coming from. They want to focus the game on RvR as they see that the future of the game lays there. Fine with me... however in its current incarnation these suggestions will utterly kill PvE dead. It will become harder to get TOA'd via PvE and in the end it will only be possible to get it via RvR at which point the fully templated rr10+ people now have untoa'd and untemplated rr2's to farm. Joy!

muu :< Well, ok fair enuff.

Yeah ok so I lied

 

[Gahn]

Ain't those only for MLxp?
Pretty much doubt that u'll buy 10 gems and without doing any ml step u'll become ML10.

 

[Kraben]

intresting yet stupid change imo. Altho I dislike PvE I did at times like the sense of achievement of getting some nice item/or ML the hard way. Now anyone can get said items and MLs without breaking much sweat. PvE is going to be as good as dead which werent the right move imo. Why not just remove the PvE zones alltogether?

 

[Pirkel]

Ain't those only for MLxp?
Pretty much doubt that u'll buy 10 gems and without doing any ml step u'll become ML10.

- Realizing their Atlantean masters are not returning, four sphinxes have traveled to the Hall of Heroes to offer ML credit, artifact credit, and scrolls in exchange for stories from the frontiers (represented by bounty points). Credit is obtained by purchasing the tokens they sell, then handing the tokens to them. If a token is purchased for an encounter the player already has credit for, handing the token back to the sphinx will return the Bounty Points spent.

No. Credit, not just mlxp. In fact with the xp scrolls you can also buy, I guess MLxp is buyable as well.

 

[Shike]

How do you think someone who doesn't like RvR is gonna get any MLs if this goes live?
There'll never be enough people for an ML-raid ever again.
There'll never be enough people for the tougher artefacts either.
Or any of the other harder PvE mobs.
People who don't like RvR will never again be able to achieve lots of PvE goals, whereas those who enjoy RvR will be able to get it all.
It's an absolute game-stopper for people who only enjoy PvE.

and voila..

Think alittle while about what you actually are saying here my friend

You make it sound as if:

1) People are going on MLraids.. Because they have to. That alone gives alittle to think about doesnt it?
2) Same again, you make it sound as if people rather RvR than kill artifactmobs, well.. doesnt that mean RvR > PvE for many players then?
3) Yes ofc the PvElovers will get things done heh, there will always be people who are genuine PvElovers and whats wrong with alittle cooperation among these people?

If people now rather go RvR than PvE, isnt that a clear signal that PvE perhaps isnt so fun anymore? If PvE is so great so it even should reward RP's! Then why are some of you calling the DoooOOOOooM! here? You have nothing to be worried about if it is so that PvE and RvR is equally appealing and challenging and fun overall for a majority of the playerbase. Or is it so that you guys are scared, scared that you are in a minority and the threat of alot of people abandoning MLs and such because *gasp* RvR actually IS more fun?

Jesus, it aint the end of the world fgs I think Mythic even will change some things before release tbh, I'd be surprised if that goes live.

LOL svart btw (about the titanicthingy) ^^

 

[chretien]

How do you think someone who doesn't like RvR is gonna get any MLs if this goes live?
There'll never be enough people for an ML-raid ever again.
There'll never be enough people for the tougher artefacts either.
Or any of the other harder PvE mobs.
People who don't like RvR will never again be able to achieve lots of PvE goals, whereas those who enjoy RvR will be able to get it all.
It's an absolute game-stopper for people who only enjoy PvE.

It's also a gamestopper for casual RvRers. I've got an Armsthing I've been levelling up as a side project, she has 0 bounty points. I was looking forwards to putting some MLs on her but looks like that's dead in the water now. I didn't ever intend to take her to RvR particularly. My RvR characters are already ML10, fully templated and replete with bounty points. There's nothing but suck here for me. I can't take advantage of the benefits but I get hit with the downside.
My scout who was rr3ish when he hit 50 has about 300bps. He's fully templated but ML5 and so I was hoping to get him some more MLs before I took him out to RvR again. I run solo and unbuffed so I lose about 19 out of 20 fights, gonna take a while to get the 6k or so BPs for ML10 on him...

New players or players who haven't done a lot of RvR are even more screwed after this patch.

 

[Darzil]

Bountypoints is also something you get from RvR and in my eyes, its something you get from doing something for your realm in the ongoing war out there.

Now, you see the odd thing is you don't. You get them for killing enemies, even if the opposing realms are destroying your keeps and you're ignoring that. Actually defending/capturing keeps and towers gives very little. I've got very few bounty points, reason being I buy wood with them and give them to whomever is repairing. Seems to me that was helping the realm more than hoarding them to buy stuff for me later.

Darzil

 

[Shike]

I have loads of chars that have enough bp's for ML10/full Template... however they all have ML10/full template already. So 0 benefit from the new rules.

yep, same is the case for quite a few I can imagine, however nice if one have an older template and want to switch to a LoTMtemplate and include some new arti etc, its nice for fill-ins so to say.

I have loads of chars who need ml's and artifacts... but they all have hardly any bounty points. Because it will be hard to get these bounty points without a full template and master levels (this is what the RvR community has said since the release of TOA anyway) I am not likely to benefit much from this at all on these characters either.

Well I think Mythic wants people to think less about RvR with perfected templates and go out there and have some fun instead and try to enjoy RvR as it is. RvR in cathal valley up to lvl49 can also be an interesting choice to scrape together some BPs to fill in for that scroll you cant afford or that scalarscredit since you never ever simply find it up! Some artifacts just require time to find up and I think Mythic is on the right track here, go spend some qualitytime in RvR which can be fun and buy credit or wait endless hours until it might pop so you can get credit. Hmm, tough choice huh?

So what is the point anyway?

Read above and, it inspires at least me to try a new toon out. Without that I wont even think about it. Im not scared of RvR in a rogsuit, I spent last night with my rogcaba in RvR and I had a laugh Ml3 and 2% castspeed and 4% magic damage of doom I tell u!

Unless we say that doing tough PvE abilities gives me bounty points and realm points. Because then my half templated characters have a choice to run some ML raids... getting ml credit and bounty points to buy more ml credit as well as helping others getting this as well. And by the time I enter RvR fully ml'd and templated I might have some realm abilities to use as well!

yea but here comes the tricky thing.. What in PvE do you actually consider to be hard these days? :I

Heck it would almost make it look like daoc would still be an MMORPG... having to group up with your fellow realm mates to accomplish things and stuff... shock horror!

Alot of people group up, for both PvE and RvR. Look on Avalon, an active healthy server. Primeexample on what DAoC can be when its good.

Seriously I see where Mythic are coming from. They want to focus the game on RvR as they see that the future of the game lays there. Fine with me... however in its current incarnation these suggestions will utterly kill PvE dead. It will become harder to get TOA'd via PvE and in the end it will only be possible to get it via RvR at which point the fully templated rr10+ people now have untoa'd and untemplated rr2's to farm. Joy!

If PvE is boring and people rather RvR, that will mean an influx in the players playing RvR. Not all will be rr10 with supertemplates etc. On the contrary, it will be mixed, 12FG albs on stick mash down any rr10grp, trust me

Yeah ok so I lied

MUUUU!

(sorry... im fixated with Minos atm)

 

[Raven]

stuff

i understand exactly where you are coming from but for a lot of people long boring raids are just not possible, dipping in for a couple of hours pvping on the other hand, pretty much anyone can do. i will be reactivating when this patch comes to EU to play one of my army of RR5ish toons that have been shelved due to the fact there is no way i can toa them all.
Doing this opens up the game for the huge amount of people who have quit due to toa, if goa/mythic had the balls they would also offer a free month subs with this patch to every daoc account and get people back in game.

besides which ML raids aren't my idea of fun pve, trudging round a dungeon or a zone listening to noobs whine they missed a step because they were in TNN or had run off after the funny looking mob and died is not fun.

 

[OohhoO]

You have nothing to be worried about if it is so that PvE and RvR is equally appealing and challenging and fun overall for a majority of the playerbase. Or is it so that you guys are scared, scared that you are in a minority and the threat of alot of people abandoning MLs and such because *gasp* RvR actually IS more fun?

Its all about choices...
Choices=win for everyone

Think about it...