1.88a patch notes

[Shike]

Now, you see the odd thing is you don't. You get them for killing enemies, even if the opposing realms are destroying your keeps and you're ignoring that. Actually defending/capturing keeps and towers gives very little. I've got very few bounty points, reason being I buy wood with them and give them to whomever is repairing. Seems to me that was helping the realm more than hoarding them to buy stuff for me later.

Darzil

Killing enemies=RvR I thought

oh, you mean its not and defending/repairing is RvR, sorry!

 

[Shike]

Think about it...

the thing is, even I would still go on MLs anyway Despite the choice of RVRing completely. I'd use it as a complement to fill in gaps I need covered. Alil PvE here, alil RvR there, whenever I feel like it and its totally perfect ML5grp steps for example, is a hateobject for me, Ive lead those steps quite a few times and I just hate em now, RvRing alittle for a little bountypoints to fill in that hole would be uber for me. Same for other things I could lack. Thats options.

Chainkilling some mobs for easy RPs is not about options tbh, its about getting RA's in an easy way. Sure, let dragon/Phoenix/Legion/stuff give 200 RPs each. There we go, RP for PvE. Things that arent quickly farmable I can accept giving RPs, we arent allowed to RPfarm in RVR with alts nor enemies, cant see why it should be possible for PVE.

 

[cmr]

Svartmetall you seriously are playing the wrong game.

 

[Darzil]

Actually thinking about it, I reckon what'll happen is this.

Larger Guilds will just do all the easier ML steps, and buy the rest. After all, one group can do an awful lot of the ML steps (all bar 2 in ML9 for example). So number of public raids will drop, or miss out harder bits and just say "go rvr and buy it" (same way many miss out ML1 chiefs BG step). That'll make it much cheaper than has been talked about here (and it isn't exactly expensive). So if you're a casual player, ML's just became harder, ditto Artifacts.

Bounty point wood may as well not exist any more, and I guess people will even more concentrate on counterstrike rvr rather than siege warfare.

With it harder to get into groups at low RR due to having few ML's/Arties either, the zerg will be the only way for many to get outfitted, so look forward to more zerging.

Only way I can see to balance this out would be some non RvR way to get Rps, proper rps for taking/defending/repairing/supplying wood for repair on keeps/towers, and making those few ML steps that need a large zerg not need it any more, as you'll not have one to do it with. The best route to enjoy PvE and RvR being a balance of both just died (Anyone who asks why you need RvR for PvE should look at the RR requirements people stick on PvE raids).

Darzil

 

[Darzil]

Killing enemies=RvR I thought

oh, you mean its not and defending/repairing is RvR, sorry!

Odd, you said it was helping the realm earlier. Must have misread.

Darzil

 

[Brale]

I agree with Shike that you shouldnt get RP benefits for PvE it doesnt seem right. I also see the bonus for people who like RvR and dislike PvE to get all they need for RvR. But I thought the main problem atm is the lack of people in the frontiers and this does not do anything to encourage me <a PvE mainly person> to RvR, it just slightly nerfs the part of the game I enjoy the most.

I think if this goes ahead they would be best changing BPs to be awarded only through keep/tower takes as I think that area of RvR appeals to PvE people. This would encorage alot more activity in the frontiers in my opinion.

 

[Darzil]

Chainkilling some mobs for easy RPs is not about options tbh, its about getting RA's in an easy way. Sure, let dragon/Phoenix/Legion/stuff give 200 RPs each. There we go, RP for PvE. Things that arent quickly farmable I can accept giving RPs, we arent allowed to RPfarm in RVR with alts nor enemies, cant see why it should be possible for PVE.

Nah, easy way is rvr with a bot on stick. I don't normally do it, but when in the (I thought) uncontested (I was wrong) bit of the Labyrinth (Albion side, running between the two entrances), which I was using as a short cut to do the Laby quests by PvE, I had a bot stuck to me (trying to do 2 quests for the price of one). I was attacked by a norseman who I killed by stick/face and mashing keys one handed whilst on the phone. 1300 rps for my RR1 bot and for RR3 Darzil. You saying that's as hard as killing the Dragon 6.5 times ?

Have expressed my apologies to the norseman via pm, don't like bots on stick in rvr.

Darzil

 

[Pirkel]

Svartmetall you seriously are playing the wrong game.

This illustrates the gap between pure RvR players and players that still enjoy both sides or just PvE.

And all this does is enlarge it.

 

[Darzil]

Maybe they should let people get rps via pve and also publish kills/solo kills etc on the GOA website, so people can compare themselves using that instead.

Darzil

 

[Svartmetall]

Svartmetall you seriously are playing the wrong game.

Why? Let's see you explain/defend that statement.

 

[Svartmetall]

so people can compare themselves using that instead.

Darzil

Given the mindset of the people doing that kind of comparing, I think a tape measure would be more useful

 

[Gahn]

The sky is falling!

 

[Awarkle]

The thing is that there are very few people who run mls on each realm, and when we do run them generally we end up very stressed and anoyed with all the afkers and people who consistantly whine or LD during the raid.

At the end of such raids im generally left very very drained, now i have the choice do i run a few mls and then rvr or rvr then finish off with some mls

There is now a choiec if you have a nightshade or a ranger or another NON wanted class you can go and buy your group steps with bps where as before you couldnt.

I can see the bp system being used to plug holes in mls not a complete replacment for the raid itself.

Remember its about rr4+ probbly for the entire ml in bps and knowing mythic they will increase the cost.

Also you can go to thid and get bps.

Its not all doom and gloom you will still need to pve for items

 

[Shike]

Nah, easy way is rvr with a bot on stick. I don't normally do it, but when in the (I thought) uncontested (I was wrong) bit of the Labyrinth (Albion side, running between the two entrances), which I was using as a short cut to do the Laby quests by PvE, I had a bot stuck to me (trying to do 2 quests for the price of one). I was attacked by a norseman who I killed by stick/face and mashing keys one handed whilst on the phone. 1300 rps for my RR1 bot and for RR3 Darzil. You saying that's as hard as killing the Dragon 6.5 times ?

Have expressed my apologies to the norseman via pm, don't like bots on stick in rvr.

Darzil

Let me put it this way, if conditions are equal then its a fair fight. I think you can agree with me there If you have a bot and win thanks to that, you are in a better position to begin with and win because of it. What that Norse can do is to make sure he have better odds by using a groupmate for example. They would have killed you and you would have gotten nothing. There can be million scenarios listed for different situations where one or another win or loose and thats one of the beautys with RvR, in PvE its just.. bash, bash, bash, pop overpowered ability (like ML9), bash, bash, bash.. win. Cash in the XP and the loot. Finito. There is no random here, there is no smart mob that suddenly decide to do something radical, there is only the end for it, its inevitable. RvR and PvE IS fundamentally different in the core.

For the record, on Merlin we killed the dragon 4 times in a row on different servers with a FG within 2h. Thats not what I call hard PvE... What took time was all the bloody running.

 

[Andrilyn]

Finally a use for BPs, thank god you don't have to go through the 3-5hour /afk /stick session every time you want to make a new char.

 

[Dard]

Shit loads of people left the game because of ToA, if this brings a few of them back then its all good.

 

[Neffneff]

I think its all a FANTASTIC idea to help casual gamers, its amazing and should have been done bfore somehow.

There is nothing wrong with realm missions imo, although the assasin missions could do with a wee boost in light of the higher RPs per kill in actual RvR these days. with speed you can rake in 4/5K and hour, which isnt all that bad tbh, and comparable to what i had alot of the time in real RvR with a rr6/7 shade bfore they boosted Rps/kill.


although, be WARNED people, this is the VERY FIRST part of this patch, do NOT expect those prices to be the final ones, they may well sky rocket before release.

 

[Darzil]

Am I right in thinking that on Gaheris you get something like 1rsp per level after 20, so at 50 you'd have 30 or so rsp's to spend ? That's loads for a pve'er, maybe it should be extended to rvr so that people can start rvr with some tools, lessening the gap with high RR opponents ? (And then NOT give a pve way to get more rps)

Darzil

 

[Pirkel]

I think its all a FANTASTIC idea to help casual gamers, its amazing and should have been done bfore somehow.

Please explain to me how this is good for casual gamers. I have thought about it long and hard and like I explained in an earlier post in this thread I do not see an advantage:

- High rr chars --> Will not need this because they are already TOA'd
- Low rr chars --> Will not be able to use this because they do not have bounty points nor do they have any way to get them in the amounts required.

Please explain me how this is a good idea for the casual gamer that I am.

 

[Svartmetall]

Shit loads of people left the game because of ToA, if this brings a few of them back then its all good.

The population didn't start to decline until NF. TOA is just a convenient scapegoat for people.

 

[chretien]

Remember its about rr4+ probbly for the entire ml in bps and knowing mythic they will increase the cost.

My RR4l8 cleric who's not spent any BPs that I can think of on other stuff has just slightly shy of 10k BPs.

Am I right in thinking that on Gaheris you get something like 1rsp per level after 20, so at 50 you'd have 30 or so rsp's to spend?

That is correct. You get 1 RSP per level after 20 on top of any you get from RR.

Killing enemies=RvR I thought

oh, you mean its not and defending/repairing is RvR, sorry!

RvR is Realm versus Realm. i.e. Helping your realm to fight an enemy realm. You're thinking of PvP which is a part of RvR but isn't all of it. BPs are only awarded for PvP not for RvR generally.

I see where people are coming from when they say that this will encourage loads of unopted, roglord, low RR randoms to go to RvR, however look at the attitudes of players in this game, people don't go to RvR until they are 'ready'. That used to mean being level 35+ back in the day, then it meant being level 50 then it meant having Epic, then it meant being fully SCed. You get the picture. When ToA came out I am sure Mythic intended us to be running around in RvR with level 1 artifacts earning MLxp and arti xp from RvR. We players though went 'stuff that' and didn't even consider RvRing until we had our arties at 10 and a decent spread of MLs under our belts. The bar was raised and this isn't going to lower it again. New RvR characters are not competitive now when they have all this stuff to start with, they are going to be even less competitive when they have to start without it and earn it the hard way. That will eventually hurt the RvR scene as less people will be able to join it.

 

[Neffneff]

Please explain to me how this is good for casual gamers. I have thought about it long and hard and like I explained in an earlier post in this thread I do not see an advantage:

- High rr chars --> Will not need this because they are already TOA'd
- Low rr chars --> Will not be able to use this because they do not have bounty points nor do they have any way to get them in the amounts required.

Please explain me how this is a good idea for the casual gamer that I am.

I am a casual gamer, most of my guild are, i have young children, and as such cannot pay the attention required to go through with MLs the PvE way.

It does not take much effort/plats anymore to throw together a half decent template, you now have one time drops from the lab, that are very easy to get, and various other quested items to fill the gaps, you can craft full imbue onto 99% armour which costs next to nothing. as an example, on US classic (yes i know its not ToA but i have experience there too) i threw together a GOOD template (one that equalled if not bettered any i had seen) for 6.5 plat and about 2 days work.

once you are in a half decent template, you can follow the zerge, solo, or group, whatever takes you fancy, an hour here, an hour there. when you get the chance you can do the solo/group steps or even the BG steps if you happen to spot a raid going that's convenient, if not nm. after a few Realm levels, and a few little bits of PvE MLs here n there, you can _CHOOSE_ to purchase any missing steps you may have.

No longer do you need to make sure of paying full attention to your screen for 3-6 hours at a time, neither do you have to panick when you cant gather enough people to do an artifact, no more running tokens for malamis for 30 mins+ if you dont feel like it, just buy the credit, and even the scrolls if you wish. BPs are not hard to get, and as such this is great for casual players, if you cant see that, then im afraid i dunno what to say.

 

[Darzil]

There is no random here, there is no smart mob that suddenly decide to do something radical, there is only the end for it, its inevitable.

There aren't many, and there should be more. There certainly seem to be some mobs who pretty much ignore aggro rules and go for healers/casters first. How would you feel about new, more interesting AI (even a mob with 4-5 simple strategies that it uses randomly, so that people can't easily adapt) mobs, which do grant rps ?

Darzil

 

[Shike]

The population didn't start to decline until NF. TOA is just a convenient scapegoat for people.

wtf, Ive lost countless of friends when TOA came because they absolutely hated it. Half my fkin guild quitted, what are you talking about? :/

 

[Gamah]

No music class love metion...as said at the round table 1.88 preview.
...sighs.

 

[Shike]

There aren't many, and there should be more. There certainly seem to be some mobs who pretty much ignore aggro rules and go for healers/casters first. How would you feel about new, more interesting AI (even a mob with 4-5 simple strategies that it uses randomly, so that people can't easily adapt) mobs, which do grant rps ?

Darzil

An AI that uses instants to interrupt healers/casters, that doesnt hit the highab/AFs-paladin just because hes twisting some fancy chants, squads with leaders that are way more "intelligent" than his lil soldiers and command them to hit the most stratetic enemy and not the one we decide he should hit and 1000 things more.. almost ^^ . Atm its far too easy to control PvE, the aggrorules are ancient and well, isolated bossmobs are also far too easy to just find a way to kill with say, chanter+bot+menta. There isnt much I cant kill with that combo I have, same goes for Necro with a good clericbot, etc. Mobs should have special abilitys like frenzy that kick in when the conditions are right, etc etc... Jesus I can go on for a day thinking out scripts for mobs... just that, in DAoC there is hardly ANYTHING exciting going on at all. If you PvE alot then after a while you know more or less exactly how to do any encounter with as few as possible, then the goal is to shrink the amount of people needed to do it and after you a while you have some guy that comes saying, yo, I tripleboxed and killed leviathan.. hrhrrhrhrhr.

Take a simple mob like Katorii.. we needed a pin on MLF and we went on thinking about it and then we tried to do it, the right way.. ok that was no problem at all with a FG, almost easy.. Then we decided to give it a go with a FG (rr2 or so mind u... with rogs), the unordinary way! And fuck me! That was actually fun Katorii oneshotted our zerker and well, thats a fun level to play at. IMO. If nothing else it was fkin hilarious to hear Jouzu's whine on vent over getting oneshotted Katorii is one of those mobs you cant control so easy, she will random aggro at times and hates particular things like bleed etc and hit like a freighttrain in frenzymode (if u just attack Katorii at maxstrenght without killing blood etc) and its generally a very powerful mob. Now, thats actually a funny interesting PVEencounter, one of the imo, few ones there is.

So, Im not saying PvE is all shit, it has its bright lil encounters here and there but most are really really shit, and by shit I mean, doable by myself double or tripleboxing and then its simply too easy. Those are farmable and those should not imo be worth anything else but the loot they already are beeing killed for. Then if we put things in yet another light, should mobs loottable just be scrapped and be moved over to RPs? Would be well over the top if mobs gave MLxp, CLxp, XP, loot, cash and ontop of it all, RPs too? I mean, isnt it enough already as it is?

 

[Svartmetall]

wtf, Ive lost countless of friends when TOA came because they absolutely hated it. Half my fkin guild quitted, what are you talking about? :/

Maybe you're playing a different TOA. I remember the night TOA went live, wandering around Anatole.../as wasn't full of RvR whiners going "WAAA WAAA I HAVE TO PVE WAAAA" it was full of everyone going "wow cool, look at all the shiny new stuff".

TOA has been the subject of more selective memory and revisionism than anything else in this game; people started leaving after NF, not TOA.

 

[Shike]

Maybe you're playing a different TOA. I remember the night TOA went live, wandering around Anatole.../as wasn't full of RvR whiners going "WAAA WAAA I HAVE TO PVE WAAAA" it was full of everyone going "wow cool, look at all the shiny new stuff".

TOA has been the subject of more selective memory and revisionism than anything else in this game; people started leaving after NF, not TOA.

eh, or how about, first three weeks alot was very active, then one after another they started to drop about when they realised how much time they needed to spend to find some scrolls and how bugged some artifactencounters and MLsteps were...

Most expansions are shiny when they are new and people explore and are curios but when people learnt what TOA actually was, alot quit. At least on Prydwen. Dunno why you have a hard time to accept this..

 

[Darzil]

Sounds like we're on the same hymnsheet there, Shike. My favourite pve is taking a friend or two and just finding out what we could do. Doing the frontlines with a Paladin/Friar duo, for example, or the otherworld with a guild group. Or the frontlines instance with a guild group. On none of those occasions had we read up on the encounters, so there were surprising tactics to deal with - which is the way I like it.

I've done rvr that has needed far less skill than that. I'd only suggest there be encounters worth rps if they were challenging, changing, and evolved to player tactics.

The assassin missions are just rubbish, the aim of them is to try to avoid other players, then fight a fast, ridiculously easy fight, then get back again. Can be quite tricky, when your realm has a tower somewhere silly and you get sent to it (near the Hib relic gate when it was the only thing alb owned a few months back was my most challenging one, though getting to the one two zergs were fighting over was hard). But mostly it's port/run to the tower, kill the mob, run back. Occasionally you get steamrollered instead, if you meet other players.

Personally, I like rvr and pve. I do know lots of people who don't rvr, though. Mainly because they are recent arrivals and it's harder to get into. I've not done much rvr, because I don't like zerging, and it's not easy to get into 8 man groups, though getting easier now I'm at the dizzy heights of RR4.

Darzil

 

[Darzil]

Most expansions are shiny when they are new and people explore and are curios but when people learnt what TOA actually was, alot quit. At least on Prydwen. Dunno why you have a hard time to accept this..

I think I agree with both of you. I think the affect on RvR of TOA abilties combined with NF terrain/keeps/towers was key.

I also think without the extra content added by TOA the game would be even deader now, as there would pretty much be only rvr, and only one thing gets boring fast.

Darzil