1.85B.. Bainshee taunt interruptable!

[-Freezingwiz-]

Yep - most of the good bards mezz them, good druids will root them then you can just run away, and 1pb, perhaps 2 max will flatten them completley. S'really not that hard to deal with - problem is you try and treat them like other group pets and kite them - i see it happen almost every fight in rvr - someone tries to kite a nuking pet - just scream "pb/mezz my target" and problem solved combined with (after 2-3 repeats) one fustrated theurgist who's probably resorted to nuking...

theurgist pets can't be Mezzed or rooted only stunned

 

[Matriarch|Sneakers]

Ack, will soon have to make a new template again.
All those hours spent, trying to make a perfect template for my valk. Now that i finally have a decent one, it will be obsolete in 1.85.
Fortunately i haven't bought what i needed yet. Nice changes though.

Haha, mythic better make sure to make this patch an expansion so they can fill their pockets even more

 

[swords]

Good theurgs time the pets in waves and reposition to get different angles, that way you end up with a constant stream of pets to deal with rather than just ac pbing a load in one go. But you can still deal with them in a number of ways, how do you deal with UI taunt on long range? run out of the range? you're useless

 

[daoc_xianghua]

/Agree with belomar xianghu - youre not presenting anything like a factual argument.

Youre unable to QC/Insta/Melee them to interrupt for 9-11 seconds - i'd say thats OP regardless. Dont even try and compare a stun to a mezz/root/snare.

Heres a situation for you - fairly common in a fg-fg fight:
Some facts this is based on:
A lurikeen caster with hard capped dex pumps out about a nuke a second roughly.

If a healer is interrupted its going to be 2-3 seconds before they can heal again barring MoC or in the case of a Ment, quickcast for example (ment heals LOL i know), longer if someone is spamming interrupts on them.

Most people can survive 4 nukes with spec resists up if not 5-6.

So against spec resists a luri caster can dump out 1500 in just over 3 seconds. Lets say 1 healer is interrupted - 1500 in 3 seconds for the other healer (assuming a group is running 2 healers of some kind) is not unachieveable if its a groups main healer - in fact its definately doable. (for the purpose of this im assuming the healer doesn't have MoC at a usable level or its down)

Now lets say both healers are interrupted just before the nuking starts. As said the target itself is powerless (if purge is down) to prevent itself being nuked, so its reliant on healing/interrupts from the groupmates. The groupmate interrupt is too varied a thing to include within this situation so for now lets talk about healing only. This now means (assuming 2-3 to either clear the interrupt timer or counter-interrupt the interrupter then heal). So in that time your group-mate has sustained 1500 damage. Thats a dead caster right there. Another 2 seconds and it's enough to kill most classes even fully buffed.

Thats not even accounting for debuffs / lack of spec resists / additional damage from assist train /debuffs etc etc.

My point is no class with extremely heavy DPS should have a stun it doesn't have to spec for - for example how pissed would you lot be if they doubled the delve on the minstrel DD's then mate our stun baseline? Point made i think...
Alternatively, Fire wiz (the old kind) with baseline stun anyone? Yeah...Thought not.

ok first of all
both healers should NEVER be interupted at the same time, ofc it can happen but for that reason healers have 2 instant heals and di which you totally seem to forget about.

second every half decent group uses vent nowadays and every caster with 2 braincells will tell when he is stunned and taking lots of dmg so the rest of the group should easy be able to interupt the caster who is going to nuke him.

stun is op in 1on1 there i totally agree but if you cant deal with it in fg vs fg you just suck thats it.

and lol @ the comment about mincer dd´s. a caster can be interupted a mincer cant....

 

[>.< Pooned]

No no no! Cos menta love inc! Mentas will get insta crap, our time has come! Fuck bainshees! Fuck sorcs!! 1.85C will be our day!

tbh ur the only reason that i would roll a mentalist in hib if i had the chance cause of ur playstyle and class abilities

although not celt hahaha xD

 

[daoc_xianghua]

Yep - most of the good bards mezz them, good druids will root them then you can just run away, and 1pb, perhaps 2 max will flatten them completley. S'really not that hard to deal with - problem is you try and treat them like other group pets and kite them - i see it happen almost every fight in rvr - someone tries to kite a nuking pet - just scream "pb/mezz my target" and problem solved combined with (after 2-3 repeats) one fustrated theurgist who's probably resorted to nuking...

this pretty much sums up how much you know.....

you can stun them or you can confuse them (confuse only works on ice pets iirc i might be wrong there) but mezz/root dont work on theurg pets.

 

[Tuthmes]

Good theurgs time the pets in waves and reposition to get different angles, that way you end up with a constant stream of pets to deal with rather than just ac pbing a load in one go. But you can still deal with them in a number of ways, how do you deal with UI taunt on long range? run out of the range? you're useless

I hate good Theur's!

 

[TheBinarySurfer]

ok first of all
both healers should NEVER be interupted at the same time, ofc it can happen but for that reason healers have 2 instant heals and di which you totally seem to forget about.

second every half decent group uses vent nowadays and every caster with 2 braincells will tell when he is stunned and taking lots of dmg so the rest of the group should easy be able to interupt the caster who is going to nuke him.

stun is op in 1on1 there i totally agree but if you cant deal with it in fg vs fg you just suck thats it.

and lol @ the comment about mincer dd´s. a caster can be interupted a mincer cant....

Actually you can lock a minstrel dock easily. Root him in place and then pull out away from him to 1500+ range - he's as good as worthless then.

I discounted active abilities as you can't rely on them to be up otherwise you would just purge the stun eh?

And DI will have been used up within 20 secs of most good fights starting. Even in an interrupt-fest a double DI3 won't last 60 seconds into a fight.

Instant heals that are up every 30 mins and can't be relied on to save someone due to that...

And yes you can shout on vent, however as i said im discounting interrupts from other people as it opens the proposed situation to a too complex level, and your original post made no mention of interrupts from the group, your statement was that if you die to a stun nuker its the healers fault. I've just disproved that with simple, undisputable facts about the way healing, interrupts, and good players will prevent a healer saving you a significant proportion of the time...

So your reasoning is if someone dies to stun/nuke they suck? Why have i killed you by insta-stunning you from the minstrel and dumping my caster assist train on you umpteen times in the past then?

 

[daoc_xianghua]

Actually you can lock a minstrel dock easily. Root him in place and then pull out away from him to 1500+ range - he's as good as worthless then.

I discounted active abilities as you can't rely on them to be up otherwise you would just purge the stun eh?

And DI will have been used up within 20 secs of most good fights starting. Even in an interrupt-fest a double DI3 won't last 60 seconds into a fight.

Instant heals that are up every 30 mins and can't be relied on to save someone due to that...

And yes you can shout on vent, however as i said im discounting interrupts from other people as it opens the proposed situation to a too complex level, and your original post made no mention of interrupts from the group, your statement was that if you die to a stun nuker its the healers fault. I've just disproved that with simple, undisputable facts about the way healing, interrupts, and good players will prevent a healer saving you a significant proportion of the time...

So your reasoning is if someone dies to stun/nuke they suck? Why have i killed you by insta-stunning you from the minstrel and dumping my caster assist train on you umpteen times in the past then?

instant heals are on 10 and 15 min timer x 2 + di2 x 2 is rly enuff for decent healers trust me. if you split proper at inc and are good at positioning you wont have both healers interupted at same time too often thats why i said if you die in stun duration your healers suck. i´m not saying it never ever happens but for exact those cases you have your instants and di.
first di should be up when you get in battle so you can survive the initial dmg so your healers get the chance to find a proper position 2nd di is used like an instant heal when its needed (i.e. both healers interupted or 1 mezzed and other interupted)

oh and btw i seriously doubt you ever killed me in stun duration with your caster train since last time we met was like 6 months ago and back then i had det5 and your stun lasted like 0.5 secs on me so rly dunno wtf you talking about

 

[Javai]

I would have rather they kept the taunt uninterruptable and dropped the range down to perhaps 1850. Now you just have a lower utility class (barrier nerf too) who has fuck all CC :x

You mean like a Wizard

 

[swords]

pulsing DD is win vs pets mate

 

[TheBinarySurfer]

instant heals are on 10 and 15 min timer x 2 + di2 x 2 is rly enuff for decent healers trust me. if you split proper at inc and are good at positioning you wont have both healers interupted at same time too often thats why i said if you die in stun duration your healers suck. i´m not saying it never ever happens but for exact those cases you have your instants and di.
first di should be up when you get in battle so you can survive the initial dmg so your healers get the chance to find a proper position 2nd di is used like an instant heal when its needed (i.e. both healers interupted or 1 mezzed and other interupted)

oh and btw i seriously doubt you ever killed me in stun duration with your caster train since last time we met was like 6 months ago and back then i had det5 and your stun lasted like 0.5 secs on me so rly dunno wtf you talking about

I disease you to screw up heals, then slap a stun into you as the first nuke lands - holds you in place long enough to get the train on you and gives people a chance to get oor of your interrupts.

Disagree on your assessments of tactics above - also - a good group will lock down your healers with mezz/stun/root/ns blah - BOTH of them. I can lock a bard and a druid down tight for 10 seconds easily. A good caster can kill you twice over in that time.

Read what i said - you are reliant on timered abilities to survive the stun-nuke as i said. Don't believe me start a poll - "do you have a good chance of surviving a stun /nuke assist train without purge/di/instants up" and see what the results are? CBA here, supposed to be working sadly...

 

[TheBinarySurfer]

oh and btw i seriously doubt you ever killed me in stun duration with your caster train since last time we met was like 6 months ago and back then i had det5 and your stun lasted like 0.5 secs on me so rly dunno wtf you talking about

Yes, 6 months ago before my break from daoc. Precisely

 

[noaim]

Yep - most of the good bards mezz them, good druids will root them then you can just run away, and 1pb, perhaps 2 max will flatten them completley. S'really not that hard to deal with - problem is you try and treat them like other group pets and kite them - i see it happen almost every fight in rvr - someone tries to kite a nuking pet - just scream "pb/mezz my target" and problem solved combined with (after 2-3 repeats) one fustrated theurgist who's probably resorted to nuking...

Remind me always take you serious when you say stuff about how the game works

 

[Tinneth]

Yep - most of the good bards mezz them

keke lets mess thuerg pets ...................................... oh wait you can't

 

[Tinneth]

dam forgot to read the last page

 

[-Freezingwiz-]

dam forgot to read the last page

are u a bard ?

 

[TheBinarySurfer]

Remind me always take you serious when you say stuff about how the game works

Its a Friday afternoon and i had 3 pints to drink on lunch...with no lunch and no breakfast, after drinking 6-7 Guinesses while watching the Balloon/Fireworks display in bristol last night...

Then consider im going for another pint before i go home to play DAOC, and wonder what kind of state my brain is in today and then wonder if im really going to get embaressed / care about forgetting the unmezzable thing...<shrug>

The point stands - theyre easy to take care of..

 

[Tinneth]

are u a bard ?

no what would give you that idea

 

[noaim]

Its a Friday afternoon and i had 3 pints to drink on lunch...with no lunch and no breakfast, after drinking 6-7 Guinesses while watching the Balloon/Fireworks display in bristol last night...

Then consider im going for another pint before i go home to play DAOC, and wonder what kind of state my brain is in today and then wonder if im really going to get embaressed / care about forgetting the unmezzable thing...<shrug>

The point stands - theyre easy to take care.

The point that you obviously dont know shit but talks alot also stands.

 

[Andrilyn]

pulsing DD is win vs pets mate

Pulse doesn't work when your chain stunned by pets that get cast from 2200 range and the only thing your group has that equals that range and can counter the Theurg spamming pets is NS and bainshee taunt(leaving insta Amnesia out) which no Theurgist should be bothered about anyway with a quick NS cure or QC a pet on a Bainshee with the new changes.
Which comes down to if you don't push hard enough you will have a constant flow of Theurg pets on you, and no Air pets don't die in 1 PBAE those pets have quite some HP and stun you even before they reach you and clutter up to be PBAE'ed.

I don't see what would be such a big deal in making Theurg pets 1500 or even 1000(like Animists) range, it's not like they have to have the protection of range as their rr5 gives quite some defensive capabilities.
A cap on pets also might be a good idea so they have to actually think out the order of spamming them instead of making some 75%pp temp and keep pumping pets.

 

[-Freezingwiz-]

no what would give you that idea

Your avatar !

 

[Straef]

this will seriously fuck up rvr imo, first of all i wont have any chance killing babybanana now And for fg rvr it will destroy hibs alot. Mids have bd's who can insta interupt especially theurgs, hibs had bainshee. If theurgs gts soome pets up now theurgs can just keep spamming then and it will be alot harder to clean them up before new ones are there cause you cant interupt them. bainshee is one of the few things that made hib good in fg rvr, will be alot harder now, but we'll make it!

You've still got bards tho? ;<

 

[Tinneth]

Your avatar !

Thats ment to be me irl not my bard

 

[Septina]

A theu going mocmode spamming pets on every person in the enemy group from boltrange = teh fun
They're not that easy to deal with then, believe me, theres this group on avalon, all high rr and vs us 99% of the time the theu mocs on inc and gets pets up on most of us while the bl tanks are pushing our casters.
Theu is op'd and does need some kind of fix but probably wont happen since they've been left alone so long.

 

[TheBinarySurfer]

The point that you obviously dont know shit but talks alot also stands.

One last thing - as a great man once said:

Braddock: "Winston, you are drunk!"
Churchill: "And Madam, you are ugly. And tomorrow, I'll be sober, and you will still be ugly."

I love that phrase Maybe not relevant but hey

 

[daoc_xianghua]

I disease you to screw up heals, then slap a stun into you as the first nuke lands - holds you in place long enough to get the train on you and gives people a chance to get oor of your interrupts.

Disagree on your assessments of tactics above - also - a good group will lock down your healers with mezz/stun/root/ns blah - BOTH of them. I can lock a bard and a druid down tight for 10 seconds easily. A good caster can kill you twice over in that time.

Read what i said - you are reliant on timered abilities to survive the stun-nuke as i said. Don't believe me start a poll - "do you have a good chance of surviving a stun /nuke assist train without purge/di/instants up" and see what the results are? CBA here, supposed to be working sadly...

you dont get it dont you?
ofc you dont have a good chance of surviving stun - nuke when both healers interupted and di/instants/purge down..... but thats not the fuckin point, get that in your head.

and making a poll is just lol, where would be the point in that? 95% of FH community (ingame too) have no clue of the game so how would they be smart enuff to know how to counter it, maybe ask the good players who actually knew how to play this game (most left quiet some time ago already, sad but true) and see what answers you get then. most of the ppl that still play are noobs who die if you sneeze at them

about the a good group will lock down both of your healers part, NS,mezz will be cured very fast if your group is good, root wont keep you from healing unless its spammed and then you have 1 class locked down in other group aswell as he is busy with keeping the druid interupted. stun can fuck things up a bit but then again you can still purge when you have to. and yes i rely on active RA´s... ofc i do, how do you wanna win vs a good high rr fg if you dont?...

 

[-Freezingwiz-]

I don't see what would be such a big deal in making Theurg pets 1500 or even 1000(like Animists) range, it's not like they have to have the protection of range as their rr5 gives quite some defensive capabilities.
A cap on pets also might be a good idea so they have to actually think out the order of spamming them instead of making some 75%pp temp and keep pumping pets.

1000 range would be too short tbh, but 1500 would prolly work to even it out a bit.

 

[-Freezingwiz-]

Thats ment to be me irl not my bard

oh, just tought irish bards looked like that :/ sry

 

[TheBinarySurfer]

you dont get it dont you?
ofc you dont have a good chance of surviving stun - nuke when both healers interupted and di/instants/purge down..... but thats not the fuckin point, get that in your head.

and making a poll is just lol, where would be the point in that? 95% of FH community (ingame too) have no clue of the game so how would they be smart enuff to know how to counter it

Youre not listening to the arguments presented or deliberately misinterpreting them, going to abandon this discussion and actually do some work this afternoon I think

Also ouch on calling 19/20 people on FH a newbie - don't think you just made many friends...