1.68b !!!

[Talifer]

Duplicate

 

[Talifer]

Duplicate

 

[nol]

You can't say Bards should have MoC just because it's not overpowered with a set Bard spec, it's like saying Dragon Fang isn't overpowered because Infiltrators could spec slash. You've chosen not to spec regrowth, not everyone does and the powergamers who'll be taking advantage of this change will adapt accordingly, plus what's wrong with taking 2 bards?

Your account of a standard fight doesn't suggest you need MoC to me either, some classes are harder to play but generally they have a much bigger impact on the fight. A Minstrel's stun has a range of 700 units and all your casters have a 1500 stun, there's no real reason that you have to deal with the minstrel on your own and even if you did your mezz is still over twice his range. But the fact is you CAN deal with this threat on your OWN without MoC, how does the sorc stop you? I'm not saying the Bard's life is easy, but I am saying it has plenty of tools to do it's job.

Now if you wanted to say that end chant should be instant, I'd say fair enough. But MoC gives much more than just end chant, the Bard just has too many instant abilities to warrant it. Like I said, yes the Healer has all this and more but I'd prefer to see the Healer toned down than the Bard raised to it's level.

Talifer
p.s. I thought amnesia interrupted even if resisted (in fact better if resisted on a non MoCing caster)? Making that single target instant VERY nice.

Bards have access to many abilities, but can only effectively spec in a few, there is a HUGE difference between "having" and "having access to".

Fact is the majority of bards spec this way, not because we want to, but because we have to, the alternative spec is 43 music, which still leaves nothing for healing. To spec into healing, we have to drop either our songs or our CC both of which are far more important to a group then our healing abilities.

I don't think there are any bards left with a battle spec, the last one I can think of was Begach, so that's history, and the only bard I know with a high regrowth was Twisting, Who never RvR's. What is the point of having a bard who can MoC huge heals, if they have no endurance and no CC? We have a better class of char who can moc bigger, better heals called a druid. Bards are CC/endurance providers, not wannabee Druids with a sweet banjo.

MoC gives me the opportunity to lay a decent mezz, something which both other realms can do far easier then Hib right now.

 

[Talifer]

Like I say there's nothing wrong with running with two Bards, one Regrowth and one Nurture, you don't need 2 end songs and you've got 2 mezzers. It's like saying a body Sorc isn't a viable spec because every Sorc has to be full mind. And to be honest I think Hibernia has a much better chance of laying a mez than Albion, for the simple fact a Bard can stop a Sorc, a Sorc cannot stop a Bard.

Some classes need MoC, like the Sorc, because they have no defense against interrupts, Bard's have plenty of defense against interrupts, I'd be inclined to say Healers don't need MoC, but I think the main healer in each realm should have it so we're a bit stuck unless we change the Healer drastically.

Talifer

 

[nol]

Like I say there's nothing wrong with running with two Bards, one Regrowth and one Nurture, you don't need 2 end songs and you've got 2 mezzers. It's like saying a body Sorc isn't a viable spec because every Sorc has to be full mind. And to be honest I think Hibernia has a much better chance of laying a mez than Albion, for the simple fact a Bard can stop a Sorc, a Sorc cannot stop a Bard.

Some classes need MoC, like the Sorc, because they have no defense against interrupts, Bard's have plenty of defense against interrupts, I'd be inclined to say Healers don't need MoC, but I think the main healer in each realm should have it so we're a bit stuck unless we change the Healer drastically.

Talifer

Why run a regrow Bard when you can have a Druid, who has root? 2 Bards = same timer.

 

[Talifer]

Why run a regrow Bard when you can have a Druid, who has root? 2 Bards = same timer.

Same reason you might run a body Sorc and a mind Sorc, you get much more chance at landing a mez with two Sorcs. One has purge up when the other's purge is down, two demezzers, two AoE interrupters, two main targets for the opposing group to decide on.

I'm not suggesting you drop all druids for a regrowth Bard, you'll still have root.

Talifer

 

[Belomar]

Go play Bard for more than 5minutes then come back and talk to me kthx.

Now who's QQing, noob?

 

[Belomar]

While Albion has 2 healing classes, both of which can have MoC, Hibernia has 4 healing classes, 3 of which can gain spec heals and 2 of which can have MoC.

My Cabalist with 28 body can lifetransfer for more than an RvR-specced friar heals (250-300), and I can get MoC. In fact, if I interleave lifetapping and lifetransfering, I can do it until I run out of mana.

Arguing that bards should not have MoC is just silly.

 

[Akyma]

99% of bards will probably use MoC for mez situations. Its deserved anyway since healers/sorc's have access to it also

And dont forgot combos:
MoC+demezz all group
MoC 4 interupt pba box
MoC+ rezz, rezz, (pot) rezz... =)
and yes, i use it to mezz, if u got 2 FG of gimp albs (det 1 4 the win =)), MoC+ AE mezz is uber^^

 

[Talifer]

My Cabalist with 28 body can lifetransfer for more than an RvR-specced friar heals (250-300), and I can get MoC. In fact, if I interleave lifetapping and lifetransfering, I can do it until I run out of mana.

Arguing that bards should not have MoC is just silly.

Yes the Cabalist can life transfer, however this is a transfer not a heal. But more importantly, and a point I'll keep coming back to, the Cabalist has no instant way to defend itself against interrupt. The Bard can stop someone interrupting it and thus does not require MoC to cast, the Cabalist once interrupted cannot do anything unless he/she fires MoC. I'd be happy for Bard's to have MoC if they didn't have so many instant interrupts, but I'm sure they'd rather have those than MoC.

I see no real argument as to why Bard's should have MoC in this thread other than, well they have it so why shouldn't we? So why doesn't the Mercenary/Blademaster get AoP when the Berserker does? Because there's more to the argument than x class type gets x RAs.

Talifer

 

[Belomar]

The Bard can stop someone interrupting it and thus does not require MoC to cast, the Cabalist once interrupted cannot do anything unless he/she fires MoC. I'd be happy for Bard's to have MoC if they didn't have so many instant interrupts, but I'm sure they'd rather have those than MoC.

Bard shouts are low range. Bard amnesia is on a timer(s), and, as you know, amnesia does not interrupt but it cancels the spell being cast -- the caster can still spam it and get it off directly afterwards. And finally, Bard insta CC are on timers as well. Besides, the situations you do need MoC, for both casters and mezzers, is when you are being massively interrupted by more than one enemy, and then the tools of a bard are not much useful.

As Gargo and others said, you really need to play a Bard to know what it's like.

 

[Aussie]

sprint away for 30sec and come back, then you have your equal to qc aswel.

 

[Tay]

Really. Im lmao irl.

Actually Im not, I lie. All these cocks talking about bard doesnt need MoC.. Have you ever played a bard? I doubt you even have the skills to play a bard tbh.

Anyway.. Bard Heals in rvr? Lol. Ok, maybe I get to heal vs a SUCKY group. But im usually busy.
Bard is expected to do so much in rvr like

• Lead a group
• Pan and look for enemies
• Land mez first
• Get end song up before you're interrupted
• keep healers/mages busy with luls/dds/mez's
• stay alive

Now lets see, tell me ONE class that has to do all that in mid or alb?

......

.......... silence.. Because there isnt.
Pac healer leads a mid group, all he has to worry about is getting his insta off on the bard then mez the rest of the group. He has 2 other healers to support him and shaman with his end BUFF.
Mincer leads in 'clever' alb setups, he has to stun bard I guess, or interrupt him. Sorc is at the back of the group well hidden with his bolt range mez and high dex. Sorc needs to worry about Mezzing and lulling. Loads to do there. Now theres the paladin. Insta chant, pretty simple class.

Because bard is required to do so much on his/her own I think MoC is completely justified. Try and get end song up with 1 shaman spamming you with spells, or a sorc, or any class meleeing you or using spells. Its close to impossible most of the time. MoC eliminates that - and yes its true, dont argue with me, MoC will work with end song.

Tank group without end song, or a bard = dead. Bard has so many issues which you simpletons just cant comprehend. Go play Bard for more than 5minutes then come back and talk to me kthx.

Given how successful a lot of the hib groups are already (I rarely see hib lose fights against equal numbers, as a stealther I get to watch a lot) seems to me that Bards do pretty well with these massive tasks they have to perform.

All I can see happening is that Hibs will simply get more RP's than they currently get.

With your statement at the top about the roles the Bard has to perform, it seems to be that you are well equipped for RvR, MoC just adds to the already big list of things the bard has.

 

[nol]

Same reason you might run a body Sorc and a mind Sorc, you get much more chance at landing a mez with two Sorcs. One has purge up when the other's purge is down, two demezzers, two AoE interrupters, two main targets for the opposing group to decide on.

I'm not suggesting you drop all druids for a regrowth Bard, you'll still have root.

Talifer

I run 2 Druids, I have 2x GP, 2x pet, 2x rooter, 2x Spread heal & dots for interrupt. Running and extra bard does not make sense when the druid does a much better job at practically everything.

The only plusses I get out of an extra bard are extra mezz, and extra demezzer. Druid is a far better option.

 

[nol]

I see no real argument as to why Bard's should have MoC in this thread other than, well they have it so why shouldn't we?

I think you have seen arguments as to why bards should have MoC, you just don't believe they are good enough. For over a year Mythic saw the same arguments from the various flavours of TL, and they ignored them too, problem was suddenly the bard population dwindeled to nothing and the whole of Hib got pissed.

MoC is one tiny little bone for bards, they still have tons of shit they have to sort out. Like a secondry stat that grows and works, like getting it in their thick heads that bards do not want char on instruments. Like having to go to your pack to change instruments, or even playing an instrument for songs, like interuptable end song like like like, the list is very long. But I do agree that there are tons of other chars that need fixing, thing is, bards are so vital to Hibernia, that they cannot afford to ignore us for too long.

 

[Divinia]

And, if this is the promised overlook on endregen.. its really really baaad..

but it aint.. i know.

 

[Talifer]

Bard shouts are low range. Bard amnesia is on a timer(s), and, as you know, amnesia does not interrupt but it cancels the spell being cast -- the caster can still spam it and get it off directly afterwards. And finally, Bard insta CC are on timers as well. Besides, the situations you do need MoC, for both casters and mezzers, is when you are being massively interrupted by more than one enemy, and then the tools of a bard are not much useful.

As Gargo and others said, you really need to play a Bard to know what it's like.

Bard amnesia is on a timer, 5 second for the single and 10 second for the AoE, start with single (which, like Nol said, is resisted most of the time due to it's low level, so it will more than likely interrupt rather than amnesia), 2.5 seconds later hit the AoE and 2.5 seconds later hit the single again. The Bard also has 2 options if multiple people are interrupting it with an instant AoE amnesia and an instant AoE mez (yes that's on a longer timer).

I'll say again, I'm not saying playing a Bard is easy, but you can't deny the Bard does have the tools to protect itself from interrupts. I don't play a Sorc either, but if Mythic said they were going to give it instant mezzes along with it's current castable set up and change it's amnesias to instants I'd say it wasn't a very well thought out approach.

MoC is one tiny little bone for bards, they still have tons of shit they have to sort out. Like a secondry stat that grows and works, like getting it in their thick heads that bards do not want char on instruments. Like having to go to your pack to change instruments, or even playing an instrument for songs, like interuptable end song like like like, the list is very long. But I do agree that there are tons of other chars that need fixing, thing is, bards are so vital to Hibernia, that they cannot afford to ignore us for too long

I would agree with you and I would rather see things fixed properly, to me this is just another knee jerk reaction by Mythic to give something to a class without really thinking it through. Mythic seem to forget there original balance designs (The Berserker being a classic example of this, they worked LA beautifully against DW/CD to make the damage equal, then they forgot all about these calculations and clumsily altered LA). It seems to me that they've tried to balance the mezzing out somewhat (all be it maybe by accident ). Bards have instants to interrupt and then cast while the Sorc is left with QC and MoC, give the Bard MoC and I've no doubt soon enough they'll end up having to give the Sorc some kind of instant. I for one wouldn't want to see any more instants in this game.

Having said all that maybe it's just a false promise and they'll remove MoC completely with the frontiers expansion

Talifer

 

[Divinia]

in the old days bard didnt have instas.. Bards wanted viable CCing.. they didnt ask for instas.. and mythic gave em instas..

mythic creates their own problems.. (with the healer initially tho) thats why we still see so many fixes after three years..

 

[nol]

I would swap my instant for long range cast and a growing dex stat right now, no questions, in the bag. Until determination is removed, instants are worthless.

 

[lofff]

as i said like 1 million times, all instaAECC should b PBAOE not ranged AE aka defensive purposes.

more in topic, moc wont make a big difference and wont b worth taking itll rr9l3 or so, u need a lot more important RAs before, altho with those 60second earth pets mb priorities change if u plan to play a lot in tank grps.

 

[lofff]

but you can't deny the Bard does have the tools to protect itself from interrupts.

thats a kinda funny statement.. along with ur explanation in which u seem to forget currently cast times in rvr are more on the 1.5sec line rather than on the 2.5sec ur perfectly timed lulling would interrupt, and guess aswell u wont ever mind freeing mezzed enemies near ur interruption target while kicking aelull in..

oh well.. melee interrupts (the most comon..) must also b denied by lullaby with patch and i didnt know, or mb the low duration instamezzes do stop those dettanks longer than 1-2secs now.. lets not talk about enemy instas who must b denied by lullaby too..

in sort, seems from ur pov bards have alrdy sum skillful way to perma moc themselves by nullifying any sort of interrupts that only u know, care to share?


Then again there are ofc ways to free urself with or wo help, but thats not special Bard ability as far as i know. Thus, even if moc isnt that important or useful, its another card to hold in ur hand and use in determined situations, a card that almost every class in daoc holds while bards dont.

 

[Belomar]

2.5 seconds later hit the AoE and 2.5 seconds later hit the single again.

In those 2.5 seconds, my Cabalist lands two 400-500 dmg nukes, and, if properly assisted, kills the poor bard in question. With MoC, the bard might be able to land an AoE mezz with 5-50% health remaining.

Having said all that maybe it's just a false promise and they'll remove MoC completely with the frontiers expansion

I don't see what this fuss with MoC is all about anyway? You want to remove it? It merely guarantees the caster uninterruptible casting for 0.83% of his playtime (15 secs out of 30 minutes), that is hardly overpowering. Seems to me you are a disgruntled tank/stealther/hybrid who just can't accept that casters get to kill stuff too.

 

[Talifer]

thats a kinda funny statement.. along with ur explanation in which u seem to forget currently cast times in rvr are more on the 1.5sec line rather than on the 2.5sec ur perfectly timed lulling would interrupt, and guess aswell u wont ever mind freeing mezzed enemies near ur interruption target while kicking aelull in..

In those 2.5 seconds, my Cabalist lands two 400-500 dmg nukes, and, if properly assisted, kills the poor bard in question. With MoC, the bard might be able to land an AoE mezz with 5-50% health remaining

You're forgetting the interrupt if resisted code again, you're also forgetting that mez interrupts, you can start casting a mez as you instant amnesia (or even before), the amnesia gives you the time to cast mez without being interrupted yourself, so in fact it's much shorted than 2.5 seconds. Also the 2.5 seconds is not set in stone, it's just a demonstration that just because AoE instant amnesia is 10 seconds does not mean the Bard cannot do anything inbetween. The Bard could just as easily hit the instant followed by the AoE 1 second later to get itself out of trouble. But at the end of the day these precise calculations are beside the point, the point is the defense is there.

oh well.. melee interrupts (the most comon..) must also b denied by lullaby with patch and i didnt know, or mb the low duration instamezzes do stop those dettanks longer than 1-2secs now.. lets not talk about enemy instas who must b denied by lullaby too..

Everyone has a defense for melee interrupts, it's called sprint, the observant casters run BEFORE the tanks reach melee range. I've already talked about enemy instants from an Alb point of view. Tell me again how the Sorc stops the Bard? You can joke all you want about how long instant mez lasts, even on a determination tank it's enough time to get out of melee range, what does the Sorc do?

in sort, seems from ur pov bards have alrdy sum skillful way to perma moc themselves by nullifying any sort of interrupts that only u know, care to share?

In short you have no real argument but instead choose to exagerate my argument for dramatic effect.

Then again there are ofc ways to free urself with or wo help, but thats not special Bard ability as far as i know. Thus, even if moc isnt that important or useful, its another card to hold in ur hand and use in determined situations, a card that almost every class in daoc holds while bards dont.

Like the Minstrel? The Minstrel is a class in Albion that get's close to the Bard's instant capabilities (without the healing). The Minstrel has ways to interrupt opponents with dds and a stun but should it have MoC? I don't think so.

I don't see what this fuss with MoC is all about anyway? You want to remove it? It merely guarantees the caster uninterruptible casting for 0.83% of his playtime (15 secs out of 30 minutes), that is hardly overpowering. Seems to me you are a disgruntled tank/stealther/hybrid who just can't accept that casters get to kill stuff too.

A) I have never mentioned that I think MoC should be removed.
B) I have a variety of characters, one of which is a Cabalist.

There is no 'fuss' with MoC, you're making out I'm on some kind of anti MoC crusade, I'm not. I am merely stating an opinion and in my opinion Bards do not need MoC. Now you don't have to agree with that opinion but don't tell me Bards don't have a defense without MoC because it's just not true.

Talifer

 

[nol]

You're forgetting the interrupt if resisted code again, you're also forgetting that mez interrupts, you can start casting a mez as you instant amnesia (or even before), the amnesia gives you the time to cast mez without being interrupted yourself, so in fact it's much shorted than 2.5 seconds. Also the 2.5 seconds is not set in stone, it's just a demonstration that just because AoE instant amnesia is 10 seconds does not mean the Bard cannot do anything inbetween. The Bard could just as easily hit the instant followed by the AoE 1 second later to get itself out of trouble. But at the end of the day these precise calculations are beside the point, the point is the defense is there.

The range difference is considerable, I have to use my lulls to get into the range of the already casting Sorceror, then what do I have to beat him in a flat out cast race, nothing.

Everyone has a defense for melee interrupts, it's called sprint, the observant casters run BEFORE the tanks reach melee range. I've already talked about enemy instants from an Alb point of view. Tell me again how the Sorc stops the Bard? You can joke all you want about how long instant mez lasts, even on a determination tank it's enough time to get out of melee range, what does the Sorc do?

Having a defense that is on the same timer as your attack is a bit of a problem, sorceror's can at least root on an alternate timer. They also have far more deadly attacks and a yellow con pet to aid them.

I use instants on stealther adds, using it on det tanks is stupid, it's not a joke and I am not joking. Mythic gave us these crap instant pieces of shit, and now they use them as an excuse not to solve other glaring mistakes with the class.

In short you have no real argument but instead choose to exagerate my argument for dramatic effect.

I disagree completely, I think you overestimate the effectiveness of instants and other bard abilities and lastly I think you overestimate alternative spec lines. In short I think you've had no experience with the class, and are grasping at straws trying to lay the foundation for an argument about a class you don't know.

Like the Minstrel? The Minstrel is a class in Albion that get's close to the Bard's instant capabilities (without the healing). The Minstrel has ways to interrupt opponents with dds and a stun but should it have MoC? I don't think so.

Minstrels have other abilities which bards don't have, they fall into the rogue classification, They are nothing like Bards except for the fact that both play instruments. I wish people would get out ofthe habit of comparing 2 classes which are so completly different.

A) I have never mentioned that I think MoC should be removed.
B) I have a variety of characters, one of which is a Cabalist.

There is no 'fuss' with MoC, you're making out I'm on some kind of anti MoC crusade, I'm not. I am merely stating an opinion and in my opinion Bards do not need MoC. Now you don't have to agree with that opinion but don't tell me Bards don't have a defense without MoC because it's just not true.

Talifer

I am afraid it is true, Bards have no defense. What defense is a shield when you carry a drum, what defense is an instant on the same timer as all the rest of your cc? What defense is sprinting when you run out of endurance because your song is interruptable?

At least with moc, I can start my song.

 

[Garbannoch]

nerf sorcs! (mindrats in particular)

 

[lofff]

You're forgetting the interrupt if resisted code again, you're also forgetting that mez interrupts, you can start casting a mez as you instant amnesia (or even before), the amnesia gives you the time to cast mez without being interrupted yourself, so in fact it's much shorted than 2.5 seconds. Also the 2.5 seconds is not set in stone, it's just a demonstration that just because AoE instant amnesia is 10 seconds does not mean the Bard cannot do anything inbetween. The Bard could just as easily hit the instant followed by the AoE 1 second later to get itself out of trouble. But at the end of the day these precise calculations are beside the point, the point is the defense is there.

I am not forgetting anything, actually i do start to wonder if u really think u gonna tell me sth new about one of the classes i do master. You forgot we talking boutt he situation u pictured in which u start been alrdy interrupted, aka u cannot cast mezz, now u rely on ur lull getting resisted and kicking in ur AElull 1sec after (u havent said anything bout possible mezzed targets in the AE range) which u say would get u out of problem, tho u forget to say it gets u out of problem for those 2seconds, after that ur target keeps casting u have both lulls down and u still cant cast urself from starting interruption.
There are sorcs who dont recast right away after been succesfully lulled (cos they think they have casted normally/landed their spell) but there are also sum sorcs with brains.

So yes, the defence u talk about is there but u are totally overrating it, its cool and handy stuff but not nearly as powerful as u pretend.

Everyone has a defense for melee interrupts, it's called sprint, the observant casters run BEFORE the tanks reach melee range. I've already talked about enemy instants from an Alb point of view. Tell me again how the Sorc stops the Bard? You can joke all you want about how long instant mez lasts, even on a determination tank it's enough time to get out of melee range, what does the Sorc do?

Guess gotta quote myself here.-

Then again there are ofc ways to free urself with or wo help, but thats not special Bard ability as far as i know.

Every1 can do it, others also have the extra card called MoC, bards dont.

About the sorc thingie, sorc has qc and moc, and at least a sorc dont need to fight those now_boosted_to_60_sec_duration earth pets which run faster than u sprint..

In short you have no real argument but instead choose to exagerate my argument for dramatic effect.

Did u ever heard about irony?

Like the Minstrel? The Minstrel is a class in Albion that get's close to the Bard's instant capabilities (without the healing). The Minstrel has ways to interrupt opponents with dds and a stun but should it have MoC? I don't think so.

Right, sorry to tell u the mere fact that both use instruments does not mean they are equivalents. U can compare minstrels not having moc to nightshades not having moc (hey nightshades have sum 3sec cast DD after all..) Would b cool if u could stop driving off walls Oo


Imho, uve reached a given point in which u dont believe ur own rant anymore but keep defending it cos u feel engaged or summit..


edit: And as i said earlier, moc as a bard those days would b more of a piss_off_damn_theurg_pet toy once per 30min (destressing tool)

 

[Gahlzor]

The only thing i wanna know if Talifer has played a bard. My guess is that he hasn't. If he had, he'd either played so little you can pretty much say that he hasn't . Or if he actually have played alot, then he'd either be a really superb bard. But the last thing i kinda doubt.

 

[Kami]

Why do people constantly bitch and whine over CC classes, moaning that "oh healers have something bards dont have and we want healers to have sorc abilities"

The classes are meant to be different FFS.

 

[Talifer]

The range difference is considerable, I have to use my lulls to get into the range of the already casting Sorceror, then what do I have to beat him in a flat out cast race, nothing.

Sorry but considerable is not a word I would use for the difference between a Bard and a Sorc mez, 375 units is certainly not a considerable range, at speed 5, which you should be going at as a Bard, you'll cover 375 units before the Sorc's spell finishes. At the start of a fight you have multiple options, you can charge in single and/or aoe amnesia the Sorc and start mezzing, you could charge in, single amnesia (if required) the Sorc and single instant mez him then AoE mez everyone else.

I use instants on stealther adds, using it on det tanks is stupid, it's not a joke and I am not joking. Mythic gave us these crap instant pieces of shit, and now they use them as an excuse not to solve other glaring mistakes with the class.

I have a determination tank and had many Bards instant mez me, it doesn't last long but they are out of my range when I break free. Instant mez is far from shit.

I disagree completely, I think you overestimate the effectiveness of instants and other bard abilities and lastly I think you overestimate alternative spec lines. In short I think you've had no experience with the class, and are grasping at straws trying to lay the foundation for an argument about a class you don't know.

My argument is simple, Bard's have a defense against being interrupted in that they have a host of instants available to them, as such MoC is not required.

Minstrels have other abilities which bards don't have, they fall into the rogue classification, They are nothing like Bards except for the fact that both play instruments. I wish people would get out ofthe habit of comparing 2 classes which are so completly different.

That doesn't really answer the question. Bards have abilities Sorcs don't have but that doesn't stop argument that Bards should have MoC because Sorcs do. You should take each class individually, I'm suggesting the Bard doesn't need MoC for similar reasons that the Minstrel doesn't need MoC they both have some defense against being interrupted. So do you believe Minstrel's should have MoC?

I am afraid it is true, Bards have no defense. What defense is a shield when you carry a drum, what defense is an instant on the same timer as all the rest of your cc? What defense is sprinting when you run out of endurance because your song is interruptable?

Shields have no relevance to this argument.
An instant on the same timer as the rest of your CC still interrupts.
Everyone has access to endurance potions by the way, and I've come across plenty of Bards who know how to run.
But if you insist instant amnesia, instant AoE amnesia, instant mezz, instant AoE mezz and instant dds are no defense against interrupts there's not really alot more to discuss, but it's very funny how ASD changed fights.

I am not forgetting anything, actually i do start to wonder if u really think u gonna tell me sth new about one of the classes i do master...

Well we've already had complaints that the single target amnesia gets resisted all the time.

...now u rely on ur lull getting resisted and kicking in ur AElull 1sec after (u havent said anything bout possible mezzed targets in the AE range) which u say would get u out of problem, tho u forget to say it gets u out of problem for those 2seconds, after that ur target keeps casting u have both lulls down and u still cant cast urself from starting interruption.
There are sorcs who dont recast right away after been succesfully lulled (cos they think they have casted normally/landed their spell) but there are also sum sorcs with brains.

If you're single target amnesia get's resisted it interrupts after the effect, why would you hit AoE amnesia 1 second after that? If you're having so many problems with interrupts that it's imperative you get to cast then your group is in trouble this would suggest the enemy isn't mezzed so there's not much to break. But you don't have to use AoE amnesia you still have a single target mez to use, since all this stuff is instant you can be moving away from the source of interrupt all the time.

So yes, the defence u talk about is there but u are totally overrating it, its cool and handy stuff but not nearly as powerful as u pretend.

I am not pretending it's a permanent MoC like you suggest, but it is a good defense and Bard's have it all the time. It will not work under every situation, but it is very effective in a lot of situations I see no reason to give the Bard the ability to fill in the gap and be uniterruptable 24/7.

Every1 can do it, others also have the extra card called MoC, bards dont.

Bards have all the nice instants this is the point I'm trying to make here. Other people's ONLY defense is MoC and maybe QC.

Did u ever heard about irony?

Saying something but meaning something else? Yes I've heard of it, not sure what the relevance is though.

Right, sorry to tell u the mere fact that both use instruments does not mean they are equivalents. U can compare minstrels not having moc to nightshades not having moc (hey nightshades have sum 3sec cast DD after all..) Would b cool if u could stop driving off walls Oo

And I said Bards and Minstrels were equivalent where exactly? I can argue that Minstrels should not have MoC and I can argue that Nightshades should not have MoC yes. As for driving off walls... well... maybe that saying got lost in the translation.

Imho, uve reached a given point in which u dont believe ur own rant anymore but keep defending it cos u feel engaged or summit..

Everyone's entitled to their opinion, but I haven't changed my mind.

Talifer

 

[nol]

Sorry but considerable is not a word I would use for the difference between a Bard and a Sorc mez, 375 units is certainly not a considerable range, at speed 5, which you should be going at as a Bard, you'll cover 375 units before the Sorc's spell finishes. At the start of a fight you have multiple options, you can charge in single and/or aoe amnesia the Sorc and start mezzing, you could charge in, single amnesia (if required) the Sorc and single instant mez him then AoE mez everyone else.

While I am charging the sorceror, where are all his mates? Standing around him? I think not. In a good group I have a mincer and 2-3 tanks bearing down on me which I have to mezz as well. 375 units is a veritable Gorge when it's occupied by tanks that know that the guy with twinkly feet and a a disco banjo is CC and end.

I have a determination tank and had many Bards instant mez me, it doesn't last long but they are out of my range when I break free. Instant mez is far from shit.

Using an instant on determination tanks will lose you the fight. I would rather die and get rezzed. Yes I might slow you for 15 seconds, but what about the minute thereafter you are now completely mezz immune for?

My argument is simple, Bard's have a defense against being interrupted in that they have a host of instants available to them, as such MoC is not required.

I agree, your argument is simple. Bards have a host of interrupts whose range varies quite drastically, all of which are on timers and you think they're sufficient defense against what exactly. Interrupting is offense imo not defense, of those the only 2 that could be considered defense are the insta mezzes.

That doesn't really answer the question. Bards have abilities Sorcs don't have but that doesn't stop argument that Bards should have MoC because Sorcs do. You should take each class individually, I'm suggesting the Bard doesn't need MoC for similar reasons that the Minstrel doesn't need MoC they both have some defense against being interrupted. So do you believe Minstrel's should have MoC?

Sorcerors have defense against being interupted, as well as amnesia which has a 1 second cast and recast time, they also have a yelow con pet. The fact is moc is not used as defense, it's used to attack for most good sorceror's.

Shields have no relevance to this argument.
An instant on the same timer as the rest of your CC still interrupts.
Everyone has access to endurance potions by the way, and I've come across plenty of Bards who know how to run.
But if you insist instant amnesia, instant AoE amnesia, instant mezz, instant AoE mezz and instant dds are no defense against interrupts there's not really alot more to discuss, but it's very funny how ASD changed fights.

Shields are very relevant because you mentioned defense and that was Mythic's standpoint. A Bards defense is fine because they have shields. Don't you think it's funny that the primary end giver in Hibernia has to buy end pots? How many palys you know with end pots?

With regards to my standpoint on defense, read above.