Impressed £67.5 billion... nope... 263 billion, and rising.

[Embattle]

Perversely, maybe it's the best place for COP28 then? At least they'll have to hear all the science.

The problem is, without the oil, that whole area of the world is just a sandy little butthole with no way of making money. It literally would put them back into caves.

If they haven't heard it already I doubt they will in the future.

 

[Scouse]

If they haven't heard it already I doubt they will in the future.

I imagine they'll have to sit in room after endless room and hear speech after speech about how fossil fuels are fucking everything.

It might be cognative dissonance or it might be genuine psycopathy. But if it's pure belief, then maybe he'll have his tree shaken a bit.

 

[Ormorof]

I imagine they'll have to sit in room after endless room and hear speech after speech about how fossil fuels are fucking everything.

It might be cognative dissonance or it might be genuine psycopathy. But if it's pure belief, then maybe he'll have his tree shaken a bit.

Allegedly he has been using his time as prez of the conference to try and make oil and gas deals

 

[Scouse]

Allegedly he has been using his time as prez of the conference to try and make oil and gas deals

Naturally.

That saying: "It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends on his not understanding it"....

 

[Tom]

Cop28 president says there is ‘no science’ behind demands for phase-out of fossil fuels

Exclusive: UAE’s Sultan Al Jaber says phase-out of coal, oil and gas would take world ‘back into caves’

www.theguardian.com

> “I accepted to come to this meeting to have a sober and mature conversation. I’m not in any way signing up to any discussion that is alarmist. There is no science out there, or no scenario out there, that says that the phase-out of fossil fuel is what’s going to achieve 1.5C.”

It's perfectly reasonable to phase out most fossil fuels. We know how to do it. So do our politicians. It isn't expensive. They just don't want to.

 

[Scouse]

It isn't expensive

It is expensive for gulf states though. What else have they got?

They're mega-rich from fossil fuels. They won't give that up.

 

[Scouse]

Another great reason for more nuclear:

Sellafield nuclear site hacked by groups linked to Russia and China

Exclusive: Malware may still be present and potential effects have been covered up by staff, investigation reveals

www.theguardian.com

It may mean some of Sellafield’s most sensitive activities, such as moving radioactive waste, monitoring for leaks of dangerous material and checking for fires, have been compromised

and, trusted to act in the best interests of UK safety:

The full extent of any data loss and any ongoing risks to systems was made harder to quantify by Sellafield’s failure to alert nuclear regulators for several years

 

[Scouse]

@Jupitus - can we add "...nope, £263 billion" to the title of the thread please m8

 

[Embattle]

Still need more nuclear.

 

[Scouse]

Still need more nuclear.

Is there a cost envelope that would make it prohibitive to you?

I mean, that £263 billion is three full years of the current UK deficit (and the figure has grown 350% in a decade).

Also - if no cost is too much, what about safety, given the revelations above?

 

[Embattle]

Is there a cost envelope that would make it prohibitive to you?

I mean, that £263 billion is three full years of the current UK deficit (and the figure has grown 350% in a decade).

Also - if no cost is too much, what about safety, given the revelations above?

See all previous comments regarding you using Sellafield as an example.

 

[Scouse]

So, it can never be too expensive, and it can never be unsafe enough. You just want it.

Check

 

[Scouse]

Turns out Sellafield is no longer a risk - it's an actual issue.

There's a leak of radioactive waste (and not low-level shit either) hat they won't be able to fix for at least 20 years. It could contaminate the groundwater in the area.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2023/dec/05/sellafield-nuclear-site-leak-could-pose-risk-to-public

At least we've only got another minimum 24,000-odd years of stewardship to fund.

 

[Scouse]

2.3-2.5 cubic metres of radioactive “liquor” has been leaking from the facility every day. This liquid is a soup of radioactive magnesium alloy filings dissolved into water, from waste cladding that encased spent Magnox nuclear fuel

@Wij old bean. Thoughts?

Your opinion on this was based on us all thinking that these were risks - but the reality is very different.

I think we're proper fucked here. We can't even re-bund (which would be a major engineering challenge) - because underneat the containment unit are thousands of tonnes of leaked radioactive material.

 

[Embattle]

View: https://youtu.be/9d-6j8_AMJ0?si=THpQCUMuLHptIbSo

 

[Scouse]

Propaganda, given the cost.

but hey - ho. at least someone's having fun.

 

[Scouse]

Ah, SMR reactors. The great white hope of the nuclear future:

https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/nuscale-ceo-defends-modular-nuclear-plants-after-project-cancellation-2023-11-14/

The forerunner turns out to be way too fucking expensive. Funnily enough - it costs pretty much what nuclear power costs. Whodathunkit eh?

Of course, that goes alongside the public picking up the never-ending unsolvable subsidy problem too. So the cost is basically "infinite".

 

[Embattle]

More multi gigawatt reactors ASAP

 

[Scouse]

More multi gigawatt reactors ASAP

I'm afraid your ASAP is a fantasy. We won't be able to bring enough online before 2050 to have an appreciable effect on the 2 degree target, never mind 1.5.

It's an absolute fantasy that nuclear can help us now. Maybe if we'd started building in the 1990's. But we didn't.

 

[Embattle]

I'm afraid your ASAP is a fantasy. We won't be able to bring enough online before 2050 to have an appreciable effect on the 2 degree target, never mind 1.5.

It's an absolute fantasy that nuclear can help us now. Maybe if we'd started building in the 1990's. But we didn't.

Got to start them ASAP, they should put one next to your hot tub

 

[Scouse]

Got to start them ASAP, they should put one next to your hot tub

If they can invent a shield that makes the o/h feel safe from 100 year old pine trees falling on her during storms that'd be handy. To be fair though - it's fucking terrifying out there right now

 

[Scouse]

Well that's interesting:

UK government plans further nuclear power expansion

It is hoped a new plant could quadruple supplies by 2050 but industry warned progress can be slow.

www.bbc.co.uk

If we build even more nuclear we become more reliant on Russia - it's the only country on the world that makes nuclear fuel commerically at the moment.

We say we'll make it here instead, but if that delivers like we've delivered on new nuclear in the last 14 years - i.e. zero plants online - then that's laughable.

And, of course, all way too late to help with our climate targets, as none of it will be online for another 25 years, when we need it all online before 2030.

 

[Embattle]

Things looking up again for offshore wind in the UK | WindEurope

The UK went through a bad period on offshore wind. But several good things have happened in the last two months which restore confidence. The UK now looks like it will remain Europe’s largest offshore wind market. The UK has huge ambitions for offshore wind. They have 14.7 GW today which are...

windeurope.org

 

[Scouse]

Things looking up again for offshore wind in the UK | WindEurope

The UK went through a bad period on offshore wind. But several good things have happened in the last two months which restore confidence. The UK now looks like it will remain Europe’s largest offshore wind market. The UK has huge ambitions for offshore wind. They have 14.7 GW today which are...

windeurope.org

Now if we can just kick King Charles out of the profits from the auction sales we could take that 25% and spend it on, maybe, upgrading the grid so it can accept the energy?

 

[Tom]

Dunno if anyone else is on Octopus but I changed my tariff to the tracker tariff and my gas bills have halved. Electricity bills down to about 2/3rds what they were.

 

[Scouse]

Hinkley C: UK nuclear plant price tag could rocket by a third

EDF says final costs could soar by about a third as it faces a delayed completion date.

www.bbc.co.uk

So. The cost increase alone is costing us more than it would cost to insulate every home in Britain.

The cost to insulate every home in Britain would guarantee tens of thousands of jobs and save us way more in energy than the cost of this not-going-to-be-in-time (and getting later) white elephant.


Remind me why we lock up peaceful protestors again?

 

[Embattle]

It isn't costing us, it is costing EDF and the strike price was already set.

 

[Scouse]

It isn't costing us, it is costing EDF and the strike price was already set.

It's eating into EDF's profit a bit. The strike price was a massive expensive giveaway at the time. If it became unprofitable they'd pull out or we'd stump up more.

Still. A) Not going to be on time and B) Insulate Britain were right - we could insulate all our housing stock cheaper for much more gain.

 

[Embattle]

It's eating into EDF's profit a bit. The strike price was a massive expensive giveaway at the time. If it became unprofitable they'd pull out or we'd stump up more.

Still. A) Not going to be on time and B) Insulate Britain were right - we could insulate all our housing stock cheaper for much more gain.

Still you were wrong to imply we are paying more for it.

 

[Scouse]

Still you were wrong to imply we are paying more for it.

Meh. This is the story of this particular white elephant. We're subsidising France really:

Hinkley Point: the ‘dreadful deal’ behind the world’s most expensive power plant

The long read: Building Britain’s first new nuclear reactor since 1995 will cost twice as much as the 2012 Olympics – and by the time it is finished, nuclear power could be a thing of the past. How could the government strike such a bad deal?

www.theguardian.com