Your daily terrorist bullshit.

[Scouse]

Of course they are, and I'm sure you even know it

I disagree completely - for the very good reasons given above.

All I'm asking is for an explanation of why you think otherwise - other than "of course they are" or "because".

We're not discussing hypothetically - you actually believe what you're saying. I'm very interested in the actual reason for that.

 

[Moriath]

We are all the same species but we are different races and lifestyles etc depending on how close we live to each other the variations magnify.

So something that happens two hundred miles away is closer to home and distupting our way of life than something that was 5000 miles away.

Just because we are all made of the same genome doesnt mean we share empathy with someone half way round the world when pur nearest are threatened as well.

Its darwinian you are looking to save your genes to carry on.

Not like one lion pride wants another to succeedd even though they are the same .

 

[Scouse]

... can't be bothered, other than to say Throd said species, not race, and even then race should have nothing to do with it. Genes certainly don't.

 

[old.Osy]

We are all the same species but we are different races and lifestyles etc depending on how close we live to each other the variations magnify.

So something that happens two hundred miles away is closer to home and distupting our way of life than something that was 5000 miles away.

Just because we are all made of the same genome doesnt mean we share empathy with someone half way round the world when pur nearest are threatened as well.

Its darwinian you are looking to save your genes to carry on.

Not like one lion pride wants another to succeedd even though they are the same .

Did you just compare the humankind to felines? And Darwinism no longer works or applies since you and the likes of Job exist.

 

[Job]

Personal insults again as an argument, I have noticed this more and more, comments sections full of people whos answer to someones theory is ' you really need to get a brain scan you cretin'.
My theory is it's directly related to levels of tattooing...please discuss.

 

[Tom]

Perhaps you should go and find a nice safe Echo chamber to post in. Stormfront for example.

 

[DaGaffer]

For 99% of humanity, empathy follows the inverse square law. I'd like to pretend that I care more about the fate of Iraqis than I do about a French priest, but I don't. Not an emotional level. At an intellectual level, sure, because I can see how the one thing is a trigger for the other, but even then, that's as much about self-interest for me and mine as it is for genuine concern about their fate. But ultimately, yes I'm more bothered about what happens to one guy in Normandy than I am about a 1000 people in Fallujah, because I know people in Normandy, I've been there lots of times, and most importantly, the rise of "lone wolf" terrorists is directly relevant to me. I know the odds of being a victim of such are far lower than being hit by a bus, but it still doesn't stop this new type of danger from having a visceral impact (which I suppose is the point).

That doesn't mean I think the sky is falling in and we should round up muslims immediately, but I just don't think its realistic to expect one to be as concerned over what's happening thousands of miles away as what's happening on one's doorstep.

 

[throdgrain]

For 99% of humanity, empathy follows the inverse square law. I'd like to pretend that I care more about the fate of Iraqis than I do about a French priest, but I don't. Not an emotional level. At an intellectual level, sure, because I can see how the one thing is a trigger for the other, but even then, that's as much about self-interest for me and mine as it is for genuine concern about their fate. But ultimately, yes I'm more bothered about what happens to one guy in Normandy than I am about a 1000 people in Fallujah, because I know people in Normandy, I've been there lots of times, and most importantly, the rise of "lone wolf" terrorists is directly relevant to me. I know the odds of being a victim of such are far lower than being hit by a bus, but it still doesn't stop this new type of danger from having a visceral impact (which I suppose is the point).

That doesn't mean I think the sky is falling in and we should round up muslims immediately, but I just don't think its realistic to expect one to be as concerned over what's happening thousands of miles away as what's happening on one's doorstep.

Which is the obvious answer anyone would say without even thinking about it.

 

[Scouse]

I just don't think its realistic to expect one to be as concerned over what's happening thousands of miles away as what's happening on one's doorstep

Many are, however.

It's whether you can separate the emotion out or not. And that's obviously what I'm arguing for - and what the human race needs more of if it's going to progress and, ultimately, survive.

I'm not saying it isn't currently the case. I've clearly made the argument that it is like it is because we're dumb dumb monkeys.


Imagine if people in the muslim world were as horrified by deaths in France as they are deaths in countries closer by. Or Americans as horrified by deaths caused by the IRA as they were by 9/11.

Support for terrorism would dry up pretty quickly.

But it goes on. Because we're hobbled by evolution and don't manage these things correctly. - However, it doesn't have to be that way.

 

[dysfunction]

You are talking about a utopia that probably won't exist for at least a few Thousands Of Years

 

[Gwadien]

But what gets me with these people who are saying 'oh its about the distance to why we lack empathy.'

What about America? It's probably further away from us than Iraq and they politically probably have as much in common politically with some of the lesser Conservative countries in the middle East, however the common factor is that theyre white and we're white, hence why it annoys me and others are so accepting of it.

And to bring it back to my original point - the lack of empathy is one which is one of the many routes down extremism - especially among the converted in our own country.

I'm not implying that they're all mentally sound in the first place, but why give them that reason when it's one that is relatively simple to address.

 

[DaGaffer]

Which is the obvious answer anyone would say without even thinking about it.

"Without even thinking about it" is the problem. Understanding why you do things is how you do things better.

 

[DaGaffer]

But what gets me with these people who are saying 'oh its about the distance to why we lack empathy.'

What about America? It's probably further away from us than Iraq and they politically probably have as much in common politically with some of the lesser Conservative countries in the middle East, however the common factor is that theyre white and we're white, hence why it annoys me and others are so accepting of it.

And to bring it back to my original point - the lack of empathy is one which is one of the many routes down extremism - especially among the converted in our own country.

I'm not implying that they're all mentally sound in the first place, but why give them that reason when it's one that is relatively simple to address.

Its not as simple as "coz they're white". The US is part of our cultural landscape;the average Brit could tell you far more about the US than they could about say, Belgium. Being white is certainly part of it, but its by no means the whole story. Speaking English and watching their TV shows is probably far more important. To be honest its only when you go to America, or specifically the red states, that you realise how truly different USians are from us.

 

[Gwadien]

Its not as simple as "coz they're white". The US is part of our cultural landscape;the average Brit could tell you far more about the US than they could about say, Belgium. Being white is certainly part of it, but its by no means the whole story. Speaking English and watching their TV shows is probably far more important. To be honest its only when you go to America, or specifically the red states, that you realise how truly different USians are from us.

So you largely agreed with me.

It's not because we're culturally similar its because we're both white and they make television stuff.

Great reasons to divide and conquer!

 

[DaGaffer]

Many are, however.

It's whether you can separate the emotion out or not. And that's obviously what I'm arguing for - and what the human race needs more of if it's going to progress and, ultimately, survive.

I'm not saying it isn't currently the case. I've clearly made the argument that it is like it is because we're dumb dumb monkeys.


Imagine if people in the muslim world were as horrified by deaths in France as they are deaths in countries closer by. Or Americans as horrified by deaths caused by the IRA as they were by 9/11.

Support for terrorism would dry up pretty quickly.

But it goes on. Because we're hobbled by evolution and don't manage these things correctly. - However, it doesn't have to be that way.

You can separate the emotion out, and you should; but we're also not robots; a lot of our biases are evolutionary hangovers that are not easily dismissed. Isn't the maximum number of genuine relationships a human can deal with around the size of a large village? Something like that.

 

[DaGaffer]

So you largely agreed with me.

It's not because we're culturally similar its because we're both white and they make television stuff.

Great reasons to divide and conquer!

You missed out, "speak English", which is at least as important.

 

[Scouse]

You are talking about a utopia that probably won't exist for at least a few Thousands Of Years

Oh come on, proper training on risk management is hardly "utopian" in outlook.

I'd also argue that unless we get it sorted then human society won't be around in thousands, maybe even hundreds, of years. At least in any recognisably advanced form.

"Without even thinking about it" is the problem. Understanding why you do things is how you do things better.

Agree - which is the whole point I'm making. Stupid monkeys.

You can separate the emotion out, and you should

Then we're on the same page.

Risk management / empathy - how we react to these things on an emotional level is not something we've got much of a hold on - but we can be taught/educated to take a moment then react in an intellectual manner. In a manner that is helpful for dealing with these situations, instead of the emotional shitpit that we've currently got.


I actually think our current economic system is unhelpful when it comes to our reaction to terrorist incidents here: The financial pressures on media outlets to keep/increase readers/viewers means that they end up stirring up emotion (which gives higher levels of attachment) rather than enabling calm and collected rational debate.

If they did the opposite - calm and collected rational debate - then people would switch off. Which ironically would be much more helpful when responding to terrorist incident if we want to respond in a manner where we don't want them to "change our way of living".

we're also not robots; a lot of our biases are evolutionary hangovers that are not easily dismissed

I agree with this. But education education education.

(Allied with structural societal reform then the problems start to resolve themselves, but lets not go too far down that path).

Isn't the maximum number of genuine relationships a human can deal with around the size of a large village? Something like that.

Yep. But that's in the immediate vicinity during old village life. In fact I reckon we are much more socially isolated and live in a less socially complex world (structurally vastly more complex but socially less so) than we did long ago.

However - reaction to the death of unknowns at distance (any distance) can be taught.

 

[ECA]

View: https://twitter.com/Conflicts/status/758312783792439297


sigh.

nvm, seems to be a shitty hoax - suitcase full of aerosol cans blown up.

 

[TdC]

Not like one lion pride wants another to succeedd even though they are the same .

lion prides don't want anything. or make plans, or care about what other lions have for breakfast. because they are animals.

 

[TdC]

That doesn't mean I think the sky is falling in and we should round up muslims immediately, but I just don't think its realistic to expect one to be as concerned over what's happening thousands of miles away as what's happening on one's doorstep.

it takes me quite a bit of effort to feel emphatic. I have a lady friend who cries at night for dead kids in Africa. I think that kind of stuff balances itself out. in all honesty I think I'd find a bunch of people the next village over getting killed by fuckwits to be concerning because the geographical proximity places ME at a higher level of risk. that said, if I sit and think about it, moving personal risk out of the equation, I find any and all terrorist actions equally terrible.

 

[TdC]

But I'm NOT an Iraqi am I silly bollock, and nor is anyone else in England ??

there's a thing called empathy and the world would be a nicer place if people had more of it.

 

[Job]

You must be abe to imagine how pathetic our tears are over a couple of hundred people dying from terrorism sound to people living in counties that are the proxy weapons testing arenas for western powers.
Millions dead, innocents slaughtered daily and the whole thing a game of chess for the west.

 

[Moriath]

lion prides don't want anything. or make plans, or care about what other lions have for breakfast. because they are animals.

So are we.

 

[TdC]

gemerally humans have free will, and minds that can contemplate such complex concepts like empathy and hope.

 

[throdgrain]

there's a thing called empathy and the world would be a nicer place if people had more of it.

Fuck empathy, lets have more of looking after us

 

[fettoken]

But what gets me with these people who are saying 'oh its about the distance to why we lack empathy.'

What about America? It's probably further away from us than Iraq and they politically probably have as much in common politically with some of the lesser Conservative countries in the middle East, however the common factor is that theyre white and we're white, hence why it annoys me and others are so accepting of it.

And to bring it back to my original point - the lack of empathy is one which is one of the many routes down extremism - especially among the converted in our own country.

I'm not implying that they're all mentally sound in the first place, but why give them that reason when it's one that is relatively simple to address.

Pretty sure it's not an exponential curve we measure our care by. Distance X Care Y.

But do we care about America as a country or for the individuals? I'd say individuals. At least from an emphatic standpoint - from an economic one i do wish America the best.

Of course they're not mentally sound! It takes a individual, fucked up on so many levels + desperation and hatred, to perform these ill deeds, not just a weak willed one.

A childhood friend of mine whose dad died when he was roughly 10 y/o, had a troublesome upbringing, obviously and since his mother always seemed to hook up with foreigners, mainly muslims, with an ample lack of saneness, off whom one managed to get this kid to travel to Turkey, live there and convert to Islam, wear that white gown, recite that unholy horse manure of a book and become severely depressed. BUT, not radicalized in the sense he would blow something up, as he believes in being good to people and actually follows the 'teachings', albeit a bit too zealously.

Fuck empathy, lets have more of looking after us

Speaking of which, how's mr Shotgun doing by the way?

 

[Jupitus]

it takes me quite a bit of effort to feel emphatic.

empathetic

FYI

 

[Gwadien]

Pretty sure it's not an exponential curve we measure our care by. Distance X Care Y.

But do we care about America as a country or for the individuals? I'd say individuals. At least from an emphatic standpoint - from an economic one i do wish America the best.

Of course they're not mentally sound! It takes a individual, fucked up on so many levels + desperation and hatred, to perform these ill deeds, not just a weak willed one.

A childhood friend of mine whose dad died when he was roughly 10 y/o, had a troublesome upbringing, obviously and since his mother always seemed to hook up with foreigners, mainly muslims, with an ample lack of saneness, off whom one managed to get this kid to travel to Turkey, live there and convert to Islam, wear that white gown, recite that unholy horse manure of a book and become severely depressed. BUT, not radicalized in the sense he would blow something up, as he believes in being good to people and actually follows the 'teachings', albeit a bit too zealously.

I find this absolutely fine to be honest - ive seen this happen too - but there's obviously a slim change the person who's helping people out may have extremist views.

Conversely if you're trying to escape something in your previous life (such as addiction) unfortunately your new addiction may become defending your new found faith.

 

[Gwadien]

ISIS claims responsibility for attacks in Pontypandy

Also read that there was another anti-ISIS march by Muslims in London, like there was last year and again wasn't really covered by the media.

 

[Shagrat]

ISIS claims responsibility for attacks in Pontypandy

Also read that there was another anti-ISIS march by Muslims in London, like there was last year and again wasn't really covered by the media.

where did you read it if it wasn't covered by the media?