Would it be possible for Goa NOT to implement new arti spawn times ?

Helme

Resident Freddy
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Ogrelin Blodig said:
After change non will have to camp an artifact more than once, they will drop every time...hence there will be more artis on the market and the prices will get lower EVEN if the spawn time is longer.
Wrong, it WONT drop every time, thats why they whine because they upped spawntime but they are still not 100% drops. Thats why its sad, it would be a good change if it was 100% but it isnt
 

IainC

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Helme said:
Wrong, it WONT drop every time, thats why they whine because they upped spawntime but they are still not 100% drops. Thats why its sad, it would be a good change if it was 100% but it isnt
There isn't a single artifact that is a 100% drop. Some are very high chance to drop but none are guaranteed.
 

Oboy

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Shike said:
people that cant farm artifacts.. there is a reason for quite many why they cant, either is lack of understanding of gamemechanics (read, poor player), or they simply lack friends. Which one are you? Friends can help out with most things, if you help them back, it do require a certain amount of peopleskills though. I believe this is where you are failing. Otherwise you wouldnt solofarm for scrolls for cash to buy what can be easily obtained with a decent group.

My gamestyle atm isnt very guildfriendly and bcs of that i choose to be guildless. I cant spend long times online so i tend to be online a hour here and a hour there, often on none primetime like mornings. I rather spend my time irl with gf and friends. My sub my gamestyle and yes i QQ but scroll changes gonna fuck up my gamestyle. Its gonna fuck up for every solo player that hasnt time for guilds or havin 3 ml9 accounts, necros, fopbots etc..


Shike said:
More drops of artis will lower prices overall no doubt. Simply because the item in question isnt rare anymore, which is a benefit for pretty much everyone. Pretty much every single artifact out there can be done with a decent full group (read, easy to obtain) and more and more artifacts will come out on the market, which naturally will lower prices on them. Items otoh will cost the same I guess, which is fine, since pretty much every item can be farmed with a full group anyway. Or, you can farm some lesser items and build funds or salvage your way to more cash. It isnt hard, and it isnt very timeconsuming either. 150plat may seem to be alot, but it isnt, anyone can farm that with a lvl50 and a bot. All you need is time, but thats what you pay since you lack a group.

Afaik the most expensive arties like GoV isnt gonna change much but as i mention earlier we will have to see about that. And the rest are bs, try to farm 150p "the old fashion" way and come back in a year.

Every change in the game has its side effects and if you are to blind to see that i think you should get ur head out of ur arse.

Nothing wrong with being gay cant see what u got that from.

Go away and troll some other place if u cant see all facts.
 

Ogrelin Blodig

One of Freddy's beloved
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Helme said:
Wrong, it WONT drop every time, thats why they whine because they upped spawntime but they are still not 100% drops. Thats why its sad, it would be a good change if it was 100% but it isnt

Well, as long as you don't have to do an encounter 6-7 times before it drops I think it's ok, if they changed it to 95% chance i thinks fine :) better than 10%-30% or whatever some of the encounters are today :)

People made money before ToA, and there will still be alot of stuff u can sell very expensive even if they make scrolls drop from lower lvl mobs.

I'm sure the developers know what thery are doing, when they change droprates ect, they have all the data and if they can see that it REALLY IS to hard to get an artifact nowdays. They will change droprates becouse they finally realised people thought that ToA was to hard and left the game.
 

Crookshanks

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Oboy said:
i am a casual player in the time i spend on the game, and when i play i like to do it as efficient as possible.

I think there are grounds to argue that you arn't a casual player. While there is no "definition" of such a player - I think it would be fair to say the average casual player:
(a) Tends to not have a buffbot
(b) Does not have tripple figure plats in the bank
(c) Does not require the best possible template to go out into rvr

Oboy said:
Why should a casual/normal player settle with a lesser template? This only wide the gap and makes rvr even worse. And it wont just be me in this position like u say but all ppl who cant farm artifacts and overpriced drops. Its not fair that normal players have to bust there ass of in DF for a semi-good template when the leetbois just farm arties like mad.

Because - by definition a casual player doesn't have the time to get the same template as someone who plays 24/7! Yes it does widen the gap in rvr - and yes this is frustrating for the casual player. Consider the reverse case - where the power gamer can't get any further in the game than the casual player - not much incentive to power game is it?

On an alternative note - why does everyone consider that you HAVE to have all the uber items to compete? My template includes solely quest drops, 1 artifact (Belt of Sun) and crafted items, and I'm quite happy with it (there's always room for improvement of course!). I still manage to have plenty of fun in rvr - I even win the odd battle :p (well maybe one a month).
 

Shike

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Oboy said:
My gamestyle atm isnt very guildfriendly and bcs of that i choose to be guildless. I cant spend long times online so i tend to be online a hour here and a hour there, often on none primetime like mornings. I rather spend my time irl with gf and friends. My sub my gamestyle and yes i QQ but scroll changes gonna fuck up my gamestyle. Its gonna fuck up for every solo player that hasnt time for guilds or havin 3 ml9 accounts, necros, fopbots etc..

set up preset times with friends and do it then. And yes, your subs etc... ofc. All there is left is to QQ for you then, considering its your gamestyle. You are in a wast minority anyway so overall game isnt hurt which is what matters more. QQ all you want. Aint gonna change anything :)

Oboy said:
Afaik the most expensive arties like GoV isnt gonna change much but as i mention earlier we will have to see about that. And the rest are bs, try to farm 150p "the old fashion" way and come back in a year.

been there done that... i've played daoc quite alot and know quite well what is doable and what is not. Farming 150p is doable with some patience (sure it aint fun but it is deffo doable, it aint even hard). And there is no "old-fashion" way in DAoC anymore, not since TOA came out. TOA made cashfarming shitloads easier overall. If you had been along since the beginning you would realize how easy it actually is now. (besides, GOV is actually very very easy to do if you know how to do it. There are plenty of threads which describes exactly how to do it on forums.)

Oboy said:
Every change in the game has its side effects and if you are to blind to see that i think you should get ur head out of ur arse.

Ofc every change have sideeffects, and what you miss is that the changes benefits the majority. Whats the real problem? Ah ye, [bYOU[/b] are affected in a certain way because of YOUR oh so special gamestyle. WOW is far more suited for the gamestyle you describe tbh. Tried it? If you dont like it, well.. QQ?

Oboy said:
Nothing wrong with being gay cant see what u got that from.

Go away and troll some other place if u cant see all facts.

Glad you dont hate gays dude.. always something, although, I'd guess a rather high percentage would read what you actually wrote in a way so it might seem different than what you say now.

And tbh, it aint me who is blind for the fact that all this evolves around you, you, you and nothing but you. I dont give a shit about you, majority means far more and in comparison you are insignificant. In other words, sulk, QQ, whine, whatever.. it wont matter what the heck you do, it will not change, and seeing as it is (im repeating) a change that is good for a majority, it will probably stay, like it or not. You can change, guild up, get friends.. play like most people do and voila, you can also get the goodies if you want to.. Too hard? QQ and spend hours on farming cash then.
 

Oboy

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Shike said:
and seeing as it is (im repeating) a change that is good for a majority, it will probably stay, like it or not.

the majority of player dosnt run in opted groups doing artifacts all day, the majority of players isnt ml9 so they can farm rare items. The changes is suppose to do it easier for the majority of players but the long turn effects will just be that the majority of players cant get good templates and the rich players will get even richer.

Glad u like the changes but dont be so hypocrite about it and realise its gonna do as much damage as good for a many players, specially those new to the game and those who cant sit infront of there pc all day long, as you obviosly do.
 

chretien

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Oboy said:
the majority of player dosnt run in opted groups doing artifacts all day, the majority of players isnt ml9 so they can farm rare items. The changes is suppose to do it easier for the majority of players but the long turn effects will just be that the majority of players cant get good templates and the rich players will get even richer.

Glad u like the changes but dont be so hypocrite about it and realise its gonna do as much damage as good for a many players, specially those new to the game and those who cant sit infront of there pc all day long, as you obviosly do.
You don't need to run an opted group to get an artifact. A reasonably balanced group can get most of the artifacts out there. There are other places to get decent items than Aerus City as well. There's decent stuff to be found from ML7 and several artifact mobs. Not to mention some nice stuff from ToA quests as well as some good gear from Catacombs.

Players new to the game don't need uber kit, casual players don't need perfect templates - my cleric has a few nice items but is otherwise running around in af94 crafted armour with DF jewellery. I do ok - I'll change it eventually but frankly I dont have time right now to finish his template, in the meantime I can play him just fine.
 

Shike

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Oboy said:
the majority of player dosnt run in opted groups doing artifacts all day, the majority of players isnt ml9 so they can farm rare items. The changes is suppose to do it easier for the majority of players but the long turn effects will just be that the majority of players cant get good templates and the rich players will get even richer.

Glad u like the changes but dont be so hypocrite about it and realise its gonna do as much damage as good for a many players, specially those new to the game and those who cant sit infront of there pc all day long, as you obviosly do.

errr, who said majority runs in opted groups? :) Its a very small minority that RVR on a regular basis in a set group.

The majority of players arent ml9 either, estimating an average is hard but I'd say that if one have played actively since TOA came, one should be ml10 by now, there have been MLruns, and reruns on reruns on pretty much every server in every realm now. If one have missed all the raids.. well.. then one doesnt play the game enough tbh. Or, you simply lack friends totally to help with minor steps to fill in if raids arent doing all steps. Problem is if one make an alt now, it is abit hard to get all MLs done and this is something Mythic should adress ofc, they arent working fast though but I think a change will come sooner or later. Anyhow, you seem to believe ml9 is the only place to make cash? Heh.

What do you base your silly statement about the longterm effects on? Thats a pile of crock and nothing else. Longtermeffect will be that more people will get easier access to important scrolls to finish their artifacts so they can finish their templates they made. People always find ways to make cash, but gettin missing scrolls.. well, there is no real way around it, either you farm or you buy (or have friends that give it...) I've been in a quite large guild where people *gasp* helped each other shitloads, giving and taking.. and guess what, I think those players represent a large majority of DAoC pretty well, its a MMORPG, where people play together, they play for the company of others. What other reason is there to play a MMO for? Might aswell play some solosinglegame instead tbh. Cheaper and also made for a singleplayer experience, which DAoC isnt.

Tbh, it sounds to me as if you wanna play a couple of hours per week, and still enjoy the same luxury as a group that play together on a regular basis and do alot of stuff together. If you want something, you have to work for it, having friends along the way to help and be helped by is a large step on the way. Obviosly you lack friends and this is your problem. Nothing else. To claim a majority will suffer from same problem as you do is silly you know..

(oh and Ive played daoc around 10 hours per week for a couple months btw.., now I dont play much at all)
 

Killswitch

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This conversation makes less and less sense the more I read it. Let's try to break this down a bit;

Lots of people have been playing this game for a long time. Many of them have crafters, which used to be a decent way to make money. This means that they have a lot of money. I've never had more than maybe 80p across all my chars, but I reckon lots of people have a lot more than that.

Back in the day (pre-TOA) there were few items that were worth LOTS of money. Most people wanted SC stuff and occasional drops from DF/SI/Dragons which were usually farmed or just lucky drops. This meant the economy had a steady influx of "new" money. You farm seals, trinket them, sell the trinkets...it's money from nowhere.

Now, people farm scrolls/items instead. So the money is just traded around and around. Now, because some people might already have access to lots of cash pre-TOA, this causes a problem. The old players who have hundreds of plat (who are probably in the 'better' guilds) can afford to pay silly money for drops/artis. They are also probably in a better position to farm drops/artis (more friends, better PvE players) AND are more likely to have friends who don't need cash, so it's easier for them to say "here, you take this 30p drop mate".

I see this as a good thing. It's also probably why Eggy has loads of characters with GoV on. Since one scroll drop can bring in the same money as 2 weeks of solo DF-farming, there's no incentive to do it. So many newer players don't have a salvage-bot or a necro to farm cash and PL. Less and less money comes into the economy, so the rich players can happily farm scrolls, drops and artis and TOA their 3rd/4th/5th toons while newer players hunt for expensive scrolls, ignore DF and wouldn't know an Arcanium Shelf Bracket if it hit them in the <censored>.

The changes to scroll and arti drop-rates will have these effects, I'd imagine;

Rich players with good farming groups (or servant necros) will be forced to drop prices for expensive scrolls, since 'normal' players can farm them. Artifact prices will rise due to increased demand (if everyone can get scrolls for GoV, everyone will want one since it's the best top for most classes). The farmers will continue to farm the arti (less often, so less supply) and more people will want it. Since the people with their new, shiny Love Story books will have no clue how to make money and their MT3/3 scrolls will be worth 2p instead of 20p, nothing will change. Maybe when everyone with more than 50p in the bank has GoV/Battler/Malice/SoM on EVERY toon they have, the prices will drop. That said, if the prices go down to 5p a time, it might not be worth their while selling them, in which case the encounters will be up more often and more regular players might get the artis they need, but it will take time.

What will fix this problem? A significant boost to Crafting skills and a large increase in the value of cash drops. If there was some reason to have an LGM Thingcrafter, then more would have them. They would learn the joys of /salvage and make money. That, coupled with increased cash from killing stuff would mean that even your average player could make 4-6p in a night.

Another easy fix for this is to make a farming group. You and your mates get to ML3/8 and head to ML7 or ML9 and farm scrolls and drops. It's really not as hard as people make out. Try to get a GG out once a week. Or try farming Moirai. If your guild doesn't have anyone who can salvage, pick someone and sponsor them to get to LGM AC/WC/Tailor. My reaver and my mate's pally can make 5p each a night in DF with no problems.

I think short-term, these changes WILL be a nerf to people who think scroll-farming is THE only way to make cash. If people think about it, I'm sure they can work it out. Where do they think the 35p they got for some ML9 chain legs came from in the first place?

Long-term, I think this will accelerate the price decreases of scrolls and, eventually, of artifacts. It may INCREASE the cost of rare drops, since encounters will be done less often.
 

Oboy

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chretien said:
Players new to the game don't need uber kit, casual players don't need perfect templates - my cleric has a few nice items but is otherwise running around in af94 crafted armour with DF jewellery. I do ok - I'll change it eventually but frankly I dont have time right now to finish his template, in the meantime I can play him just fine.

Its a perfect "carrot" for new players having scrolls dropping while xping that can sell for some plats. New players will have something to look forward when this scroll drop so they maybe can afford there first sced kit.
 

Shike

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Killswitch said:
I think short-term, these changes WILL be a nerf to people who think scroll-farming is THE only way to make cash. If people think about it, I'm sure they can work it out. Where do they think the 35p they got for some ML9 chain legs came from in the first place?

pretty much it. :D
 

Oboy

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Shike said:
Tbh, it sounds to me as if you wanna play a couple of hours per week, and still enjoy the same luxury as a group that play together on a regular basis and do alot of stuff together. If you want something, you have to work for it, having friends along the way to help and be helped by is a large step on the way. Obviosly you lack friends and this is your problem. Nothing else. To claim a majority will suffer from same problem as you do is silly you know..
yes i wanna play couple hours a week and in RVR. But it takes alot of boring PVE to get a good template so i can do good in rvr. Scroll farming is the best option to solve this (yes i tried other metods to). Yes call me lazy but i play this game for the end game that is RVR. Maybe u think pve and chatting is fun but dont call me a whiner just because i now need to do more boring pve.
 

Oboy

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Killswitch said:
I think short-term, these changes WILL be a nerf to people who think scroll-farming is THE only way to make cash.

Its far the fastest way for ppl who cant farm high ml mobs or artifacts, and i as many others dont like to do more boring PVE.
 

Killswitch

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Oboy said:
Its far the fastest way for ppl who cant farm high ml mobs or artifacts, and i as many others dont like to do more boring PVE.

But surely the PvE elements and the work required to get the equipment needed to compete in RvR is an integral part of any game with a persistent-environment. How would you feel if you went to work for a company and you and your colleagues got paid the same even if they worked 8 hours a week and you worked 80?

The reward system in DAOC is just that. It rewards skill and effort, the same as a job or a hobby. You can't play 2 hours of soccer a week and then turn up at Real Madrid and expect to be as good as Zidane.

There are plenty of games that provide instant PvP gratification with all players on an equal footing. Warcraft 3 and Counterstrike leap to mind. First and foremost, DAOC is still a Roleplaying game and, like with real-life, work, sport, hobbies etc, you still have to put work in to get fun out.

Although I enjoy the thrill of WTFPWNINGOMG!!!!!1111 people in RvR, it's more satisfying to know that the hours I've put in have given me the template, the tricks, the MLs, the RAs and the skills I used in that fight. When you think about it, even though in Counterstrike you get all the toys and abilities on a plate, the players who play 50 hours a week will still beat the crap out of someone who players 5 hours a week (usually).

I just don't think what Oboy wants is possible in this (or any) type of game. People who play more, are more dedicated, have more free time and are willing to do "the grind" will always get more out of the end-game.
 

Quinlan

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Shike said:
I've been in a quite large guild where people *gasp* helped each other shitloads, giving and taking.. and guess what, I think those players represent a large majority of DAoC pretty well, its a MMORPG

The only large majority there was Maleg imo
 

vintervargen

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i thought rare scrolls was pretty much the easiest way for someone who can only farm with 1 or 2 characters at the time, to earn cash?

aka, where is the 'casual player' gonna get the cash to buy an artifact with if scrolls aint worth shit? ;)
 

Danya

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Oboy said:
Its far the fastest way for ppl who cant farm high ml mobs or artifacts, and i as many others dont like to do more boring PVE.
I used to make a plat a day in RvR, since they boosted the cash drops and made them so you don't have to collect bags RvR is pretty good money.

Agree with what whoodoo said about finding a guild etc. I gave away tens of plats worth of gear to people and still had 40+p on my char when I quit and that after buying my template (which probably cost 50p or so).
 

Killswitch

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vintervargen said:
i thought rare scrolls was pretty much the easiest way for someone who can only farm with 1 or 2 characters at the time, to earn cash?

aka, where is the 'casual player' gonna get the cash to buy an artifact with if scrolls aint worth shit? ;)

Answer: The same way everyone who plays this game earned cash before TOA. This will do the following;

a) Bring NEW money into the economy instead of recirculating old money people made while levelling on Gobbos 5,378,581 years ago
b) Will hopefully bring CM prices down because people won't be able to afford to spend 15p on mediocre TOA drops just because they have +4 dex cap on them

Another point that occurs to me is that the scrolls that casual players can easily farm are worth nothing anyway, because any casual player can farm them. The expensive scrolls require either;

a) Servant Necro + 50 BB
b) ML9 sorc
c) FG of ML3 randoms

I'd suggest that both a+b are not 'casual' players. C is a possibility, but needs to be arranged and takes time away from RvR and fun. I find the best way to make money is to RvR, PL alts and salvage loot and attend ML raids whenever possible and sell stuff you win on rolls. This scroll change won't affect any of those things :)
 

vintervargen

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if i'd call myself a leet farmer, id say that what i buy, is simply time.

instead of farming blue mobs for a certain scroll, i farm some artifact or ml7 for cash, which i then buy other things for.

casual players do the opposite, farm a sought-after, timeconsuming scroll, and buy a needed artifact.
 

Killswitch

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vintervargen said:
if i'd call myself a leet farmer, id say that what i buy, is simply time.

instead of farming blue mobs for a certain scroll, i farm some artifact or ml7 for cash, which i then buy other things for.

casual players do the opposite, farm a sought-after, timeconsuming scroll, and buy a needed artifact.

Then, if you're telling the truth, this is a good thing for everyone! Instead of farming GoV and selling it for 50p so you can afford the Cloudsong book, you can sell it for 10p and afford the Cloudsong book. 10p is a realistic amount for a casual player to farm in DF or in AC.

What I believe is the case though, is that the '733t farmers' will simply sell the GoV for 50p to another '733t farmer' so he can TOA his second buffbot and the casual players get screwed again. Like I said in a previous post, the only thing that will bring the prices of artis and rare drops down is when we reach the point that all the serious players have 16 level 50 fully-TOA'd characters and they can't fit any more SoMs, GoVs and CSs into their vaults.

Yes, there was a hint of sarcasm there. The prices of scrolls, artis and drops seem to be heading steadily downwards. I don't think anyone wants to farm artis 24/7, so as the farmers and their friends head towards critical TOA mass, the prices come down. I'd imagine the main thing that is keeping prices so high now is that people can make so much money farming scrolls!!! Once that is stopped, the prices will have to come down or the drops will sit on people's CMs until the end of time.
 

vintervargen

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theres no such thing as black and white, casual or leet farmer. the only variable is time. time to exp a buffbot/animist/necro + time to do the actual farm.
 

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