World Poverty

[bodhi]

Originally posted by old.RedVenom
Its a theoretical problem with theoretical answers. For most of us anyway - we're not starving, so we don't care.

/o\

Well why on earth are you getting all holier than thou when you don't plan doing anything about it? In my view, not caring and not doing anything about it is just as bad as caring, but still failing to do anything about it.


I say let em all starve to death. Then all the problems would simply go away.

 

[old.RedVenom]

For most of us the problem is theoretical - as most of us will never be starving. The soloution is also theoretical, as I think xane's post implied.

No one is going to do anything for other peoples benefits when there's vast quantities of money to be made out of it, at the expense of a few million lives. Its a rather unfortunate conundrum...

Still, its a great one for a long day at work. And who knows, people might learn something in the process - other than how shallow minded and blasé most of the population are about such issues.

 

[GDW]

No I still dont understand your logic. How is world poverty theoretical?

 

[xane]

Originally posted by dysfunction
I also dont know where you will find water in Africa either which will be needed for the crops anyway. Since most of Africa is suffering from drought.

Well, using GM food that is more hardy and requires less water would be a start, besides there is already enough water to serve crops, even for export, just that the same water is not exactly drinkable by humans.

You sound like you are sadly uneducated on the problem of clean water in Africa, not all of it is a vast unpopulated desert region, there is simply no logistical reason why water cannot be delivered to everyone who needs it. Go check out the UN, WHO and World Bank websites, there is _plenty_ of information regarding water initiatives in Africa, all it requires is investment in the infrastructure.

One of the biggest developments in water supply outside Africa has been privatisation, which has made more water available to a wide population, even where corruption and mismanagement have been involved, the result has always been better water supply. Of course, "investment" smacks of global corporations, another nasty bugbear for the treehuggers and one which must be kept away at all costs, meanwhile people die needlessly, approx 30,000 a day, from preventable illness manly caused by poor sanitation.

Clean water and sanitation not only improves health for obvious reasons, but it removes the terrible toll of water bourne disease, the investment would easily repay itself in reduced medical expenses that are currently being used as aid.

 

[old.RedVenom]

Originally posted by old.RedVenom
For most of us the problem is theoretical - as most of us will never be starving.

Most of us will never be starving. Most of us will never see these problems, I count myself amongst those. We sit here and discuss the problems *as we see them*, along with what should be done as a soloution.

Poverty is an entirely tangiable entity: just not something most of us will encounter.

Does that clear it up?

 

[bodhi]

Originally posted by old.RedVenom
For most of us the problem is theoretical - as most of us will never be starving.

I'm starving right now tbh. Think I'll go get some crisps.

 

[~YuckFou~]

 

[GDW]

No still not clear. My understanding was that there was a discussion on the theoretical solutions to world poverty, or Africa to be more specific. Now surely the extreme poverty in Africa is real and not theoretical? We arent discussing poverty in Western Europe.

Anyway Im sure youll disagree so we'll leave it at that.

 

[old.RedVenom]

All I was trying to suggest was that although the poverty is indeed real - we (the users of this message board, and I suspect this covers all of us) will never actually encounter it in our lives.

We are discussing soloutions to problems we will never see, nor experience: hence theoretical soloutions to a theoretical problem.

No need to end it on a bad note - I'm sure there's plenty of other things to spat over

 

[Lester]

I don't fancy reading this thread. Is there any funny bits or is it all serious? Can someone summarise plz?

 

[Embattle]

The real problem is that we have two contradictory solutions here, either we pull out totally or go in and help them out in nearly every area to the extent of removing governments. The thing is that then people say you are interfering too much or not doing enough, its a lose - lose situation for the west, although the middle of the road attitude currently taken seems to do them the least amount of damage it does nothing to help Africa.

 

[Tom]

Only small parts of Africa suffer regular drouts. Many of you might care to remember that much of central Africa is in fact rainforest.

I tend to agree with what Xane writes, I don't have a problem with GM crops, I'd rather eat GM food then food that's been coated with pesticides - pesticides that can't just be washed off, seeing as the plant has been watered with them.

The other problem regarding people's attitudes is that they tend only to be made aware of problematic countries in Africa. The news doesn't really give mention to places like Botswana, a prosperous nation. I'm sure there are more like it.

If people here genuinely 'don't care', then I can only pity them. Of course I'm not sitting in a mud-hut in Nigeria writing this, but I do reserve my right to influence people's thinking on this. I would also quite happily condone any MP who wanted to make policy changes to improve the poorer nations lot.

 

[old.RedVenom]

Quazi-serious theoretical discussion of how to fix the worlds hunger. Intersperced with rainy showers of crass stupidity and misunderstanding, your not missing out on much

 

[old.Dillinja]

I have to agree with Exor throughout most of this post. Although it may seem cruel, evil or whatever. But like the threadmaker stated, in 25 years time 2 thirds of the world will have a water shortage and overpopulation will ultimately be what causes it. People are meant to die, for this reason, to stop overpopulation, and if some races have higher death rates than others that is the way nature intended it to be, and for us to try to change that would only be making it worse for ourselves and the rest of the human race possibly.

 

[Tom]

So, Dillinja, if your mother got Cancer, you'd say to her 'don't worry mum its what nature intended, we'll all miss you, cya'

Of course you fecking wouldnt.

 

[old.RedVenom]

Originally posted by old.Dillinja
People are meant to die, for this reason, to stop overpopulation, and if some races have higher death rates than others that is the way nature intended it to be, and for us to try to change that would only be making it worse for ourselves and the rest of the human race possibly.

Some peoples blithe stupidity appauls me.

 

[old.Dillinja]

No but were talking on a much larger scale here, and death is a part of life. We should accept it unless, of course, it can be easily prevented.

 

[old.Dillinja]

Originally posted by old.RedVenom
Some peoples blithe stupidity appauls me.

Bleh it's my opinion mate, I'd like it if you didn't insult me for it.

 

[old.RedVenom]

Originally posted by old.Dillinja
No but were talking on a much larger scale here, and death is a part of life. We should accept it unless, of course, it can be easily prevented.

This is precicely why I say your so blithely stupid. This IS a preventable problem. Its exactly what we've been discussing....

 

[Durzel]

Originally posted by GDW
I think that those of you who feel strongly about this should stop sitting on your fat arses and do something about it, rather than posting how strongly you feel about it to random faceless people on a forum.

Amen.

I'd be interested to know how many of the "lets go and help the poor people!" contigent actually do anything of any material worth to help the situation. I bet its not many. It's like BW - how everyone extolled the virtues of the "bestest GSP in the World", then when it came to paying subs these same people were the first to hop on Jolt. Point is - its easy enough to pass oneself off as the unflinching humanitarian when its all talk... As soon as these same people are asked to dig deep into their own pockets - suddenly its not such a big issue.

Which is why the following excellent statement...

Originally posted by bodhi
In my view, not caring and not doing anything about it is just as bad as caring, but still failing to do anything about it.

..hits the nail on the head.

For what it's worth, I really couldn't care less what happens over there.

Any civilisation that is incapable (through governmental or peer review) to make the connection between over-population and poverty is clearly beyond all hope. We should clear their debt (which they have no hope of ever repaying anyway) and leave them to their own devices. If after that they are still incapable of maintaining a basic human existance - then, well, fuck 'em.

Them's the cards you are dealt with I'm afraid.

Originally posted by old.RedVenom
This is precicely why I say your so blithely stupid. This IS a preventable problem. Its exactly what we've been discussing

You're missing the point I feel. Why is it our job to "cure the problem"? Do you see animals rescuing others from the jaws of a tiger? No, that's called natural selection my friend - the strongest prevail, and the weakest (along with their DNA) fall by the wayside.

 

[old.Dillinja]

Originally posted by old.RedVenom
This is precicely why I say your so blithely stupid. This IS a preventable problem. Its exactly what we've been discussing....

Well, if you're going to look at it from that perspective, our own country is far from perfect, and charity begins at home imo. This country gets worse every year and pouring money into other countries isn't going to help it.

 

[old.RedVenom]

Originally posted by Durzel
You're missing the point I feel. Why is it our job to "cure the problem"? Do you see animals rescuing others from the jaws of a tiger? No, that's called natural selection my friend - the strongest prevail, and the weakest (along with their DNA) fall by the wayside.

Ye gods, none of this namby-pamby humanitarianism from the BW crew I see. Might as well just have that Adolf chap back in power, after all, he surely wasn't -all that bad-? What about the good things he did....


Dilinja: For the most part, this country lives above the poverty line. Basic amenities (running water, et al) are provided for us. Take that away, and we're no better off than a good chunk of the African sub-continent. Would you want to live like that? Especially when its a very real and achieveable goal.

 

[old.Dillinja]

I can see where you're coming from RedVenom, but it's in my human nature to value the health and safety of those around me, my countrymen, and myself of course over that of people I don't know and are not even from the same lump of land as me.

 

[kameleon]

While I think some of the points you make are valid, it's not until people realise that we live on a rock in space with finite resources that theres is going to be an end to the problem. Thats just put in the simplest terms possible.

As we so called developed countries are the major cause of famine and pollution in the other parts of the world, it's only fair that we should help to sort these problems out. If you don't want to contribute financially, then do the opposite and turn the odd light off or knock the heating down a bit.

 

[Tom]

What difference does it make that you're in a different country? We're all human. There are no visible borders viewable from space.

 

[Durzel]

By that rationale, since we're all living creatures we should all live together in perfect harmony. Nice idea, falls down in the real World. I'm not saying we should eat Africans of course, that'd be distasteful. Instead we should grind them up into some kind of compound to power our expensive luxuries like transportation, power stations and the like.

 

[bodhi]

Originally posted by Durzel
I'm not saying we should eat Africans of course, that'd be distasteful.

Nothing a bit of Tobasco wouldn't help.

 

[Durzel]

Originally posted by old.RedVenom
Ye gods, none of this namby-pamby humanitarianism from the BW crew I see. Might as well just have that Adolf chap back in power, after all, he surely wasn't -all that bad-? What about the good things he did....

What the fuck has Adolf Hitler got to do with anything? Where did anyone advocate committing genocide against Africa? Try and stay on topic lad

Dilinja: For the most part, this country lives above the poverty line. Basic amenities (running water, et al) are provided for us. Take that away, and we're no better off than a good chunk of the African sub-continent. Would you want to live like that? Especially when its a very real and achieveable goal.

Give me a break.

You actually think that the odd well here and there solves all their problems? They're beyond help to be honest - it would take the entire resources of the UK and others to make a material difference to the well being of the African population. And at what cost? We have enough problems in the UK as it is - problems that, whilst they manifest themselves as trivial in the scheme of all things Africa, are problems nonetheless.

 

[Durzel]

Originally posted by bodhi
Nothing a bit of Tobasco wouldn't help.

On form today bodhi

 

[GDW]

Originally posted by Durzel
What the fuck has Adolf Hitler got to do with anything? Where did anyone advocate committing genocide against Africa? Try and stay on topic lad

You did 4 threads up