World Poverty

[old.RedVenom]

Originally posted by xane
Do you have any children ?

And no, I don't. I'm in no position to comment other than what I'd rather have for my hypothetical children. And I most certainly do know what I'd rather have...

 

[Embattle]

Africa is a continent with many troubles and this is unlikely to change any time soon, no matter what Newspapers publish. Just a quick look at some of Africa's problems:

1. Wars
2. STDs
3. Birth Control
4. Foreign Relations
5. Internal Governments
6. Debt
7. Crime/Law
8. Export Markets

I do believe the West could help to some degree, but it wrong to continually join African dictators/leaders and blame the West for all of Africa's problems. Most of Africa's current problems steam from it's own leaders and people's lack of will/ability to change the situation.

 

[old.RedVenom]

And our outstanding ability to profit from arms sales to third world countries, and perpetuate tribal warfare into the 21st century.

Don't worry, thats not our fault though - they were fighting anyway, right?

</third-world-cum-globalisation rant>

 

[*Exor*]

Who gives a fuck? Let them kill each other, a bullet can't travel from Africa to Britain so why should we give a shit?

At least we're making money from their fighting then, and that's the main thing - otherwise our country would be in an even worse state than it is now, or maybe we'd be paying higher taxes?

I for one think the state of our public transport system is far more important than a load of starving Africans shooting each other.

 

[old.RedVenom]

So if civil war broke out here, you'd not want anyone to come to our assistance? Every man, woman and child for themseles? I can see that being a real hoot .......

 

[GDW]

Let Jesus into your life

 

[Embattle]

You'll also notice that the weapon of choice, for most of those countries currently fighting in Africa, is the AK47 and other Russian/Asian weapons.

I could return equally stupid comments and say they would buy weapons any way, just from someone else. Perhaps I could also say that it their own governments wasting money on weapons or that just because you have weapons doesn't mean you need to go to war with them asap...etc...etc.

 

[old.RedVenom]

You could Emb, but you'd be wrong - and back to being my bitch

 

[Embattle]

Originally posted by old.RedVenom
So if civil war broke out here, you'd not want anyone to come to our assistance? Every man, woman and child for themseles? I can see that being a real hoot .......

Hmm go to there assistance, a lovely idea in practice and one I wouldn't mind seeing but you then get the hippies moaning and other surrounding countries shouting...claim we were colonising countries again.

 

[*Exor*]

Originally posted by old.RedVenom
So if civil war broke out here, you'd not want anyone to come to our assistance? Every man, woman and child for themseles? I can see that being a real hoot .......

You're an idiot.

 

[dysfunction]

Originally posted by Tom[SHOTTEH]
Yeah like they did in the Egyptian Empire. They weren't very advanced at all. Or the Somalians for that matter. Or the Morrocans either.

Granted North Africa is very different to the South.

I may well have over simplified and generalised a tiny bit

 

[icemaiden]

The attitudes displayed in this thread by some are disgusting. Do you actually think these ppl sit down and plan how to fuck their lives up deliberately or summit? The fact they continue to have children is a problem - but in a country that can't afford food/water/aids medicine, how the hell do you expect them to be able to afford condoms or any other sort of contraceptive ffs.. they don't have the privelage of the NHS etc. I could go on about this for hours (being a woman thats my privelage), however, rant over

 

[Embattle]

Originally posted by old.RedVenom
You could Emb, but you'd be wrong

Hmm exactly my point

 

[old.RedVenom]

Originally posted by icemaiden
I could go on about this for hours (being a woman thats my privelage)...

Isn't that just "going on"?

Emb: Don't make me come over and beat you with a bag of boring computer hardware you've reviewed in the past

 

[Gumbo]

It's funny, you can't get involved without pissing off the tree huggers, and you can't stand back without pissing off the tree huggers.

My idea would be to cancel the crippling debts, stop selling weapons/subsidising regimes, stop exploiting resources and just pull out and let the continent run it's course. This would of course also mean stopping immunizations, and food aid etc. Let the continent find the population levels that it can support, then, when they've achieved self suffecient stability, we can all get along together again, ok?

I think I'll cop some abuse for this won't I?

 

[old.RedVenom]

Yes you will I can't even be arsed to start on the whole food thing...

 

[~YuckFou~]

Originally posted by icemaiden
Do you actually think these ppl sit down and plan how to fuck their lives up deliberately or summit?

They would need to think to plan.
Too much like hard work.
I think I've pointed out before that it's just Natural Selection.



Ethiopia, another drought, another famine. Imagine that, a drought, fuck me, thats a surprise!

"OK, what is our plan in the event of famine?"
"We don't have one boss"
"OK, lets have a pop concert then."

Or...
"OK, what is our plan in the event of famine?"
"Well we have grain stores ready, because it was bound to happen eventually, and our resevoirs should get us through the next few months"
"Good, have we put money away to buy in food as well?"
"Yes boss"
"Are you sure we didn't spend the money on guns and a new set of Limo's for the Chiefs?"
"Positive boss, we spent some on water purification plants so we can use the river water."
"Good"

 

[Tom]

One thing I've learnt from this thread, is that Exor is a twat. Unless he just likes trying to wind people up.



I've said it before, allow Africa to trade fairly with Europe and America (by eliminating subsidies to Euro nations) and Africa would quite happily sort it's problems. Population control isn't really the problem here, with such a high mortality rate, you need lots of children to continue your genes. You also need children to work the land you own.

And anybody who thinks 'charity begins at home', well, I don't see anybody here starving, do you?

 

[Furr]

To be honest..... I really dont care that much either.

The thing is its mostly their own faults for whats happening over there.

Look at all thoses asian countries that gained independance and then look at the african countries. In all respect africa had more resources and could have done well for itself but they messed up. While on the other hand a few of the asian coutries have done quite well for themselves, although in no way all.

China although never ruled, is doing pretty well apart from their current problem with SARS. India although having a massive poverty problem "is" slowly slowly sorting itself out. those two countries alone make up 1/3 of the worlds population with over 2 billion people between them!!!! Didn't the world bank predict that China and India would be two new economic powers by 2030 or something.

While Africa did have some early success, its all falling to bits, I cant even think of one african country thats doing well. Considering South Africa is meant to be the local super power. Even it is slowly getting more and more dilapidated. The african nations cant even prove they can pull off even a limited improvement. So why should the western nations already doing damage control on their economies invest in a continent that will most likely plough the money sent over into weapons, drugs or gangs.

And too all you tree huggers, everything is about "investment" when it comes to money and its not going to change. The west is currently thinking of the return they would get from if they did put their money in. And realising it would just end up in some dictators hands.

First they should sort out the power problems, with UN force if needed. Then the money should go in.

 

[old.RedVenom]

Originally posted by Furr
China although never ruled, is doing pretty well apart from their current problem with SARS.

Hehehehehe. Thats really so amusing. Do you have any idea of what percentage of the population of that country lives below the poverty line? Any idea of the infant mortality rate, and other indicators of a fine and healthy population...

If you even so much as step foot outisde of the industrialised towns, the whole place falls apart.

Not a pretty sight.

 

[old.RedVenom]

<snip> Ooops, double posting skills. </snip>

 

[xane]

Originally posted by Gumbo
It's funny, you can't get involved without pissing off the tree huggers, and you can't stand back without pissing off the tree huggers.

Africa's water supply problem could be solved instead of one years worth of Kyoto payments.

Africa's food problems can be solved using GM food, but because the EU has a ban they don't want to risk it getting into the crops, even if it is pre-milled. Trade to EU is more important than the starving population.

Africa's malaria problem could be solved by removing the ban on dioxins (restricted to malaria control and not for farming). America got rid of malaria using DDT, why can't Africa be allowed to ?

Africa's power supply can be assured with nuclear power, the only suitable replacement now that hydro has worked out to be a disaster to the ecology.

Africa's debt could be cancelled with investment, but that means letting global corporations at the natural resources.

Africa's political turmoil can probably solved by an Iraq-style invasion, something the French are keen on.

I would cast doubts on all the above, they might work, they might not, but at least we could try as Africa couldn't possibly be worse off, if it wasn't for all the treehuggers opposing them based purely on political principles.

The sad fact is Africa's problems _can_ be solved today.

 

[dysfunction]

I think thats a bit simplified and idealistic.

Many African countries have rejected GM crops themselves... and not because of Europe doesnt want them to have it....and yet their pop is starving.

I would be very worried if some african countries had nuclear power. They can barely maintain streets let alone a nuclear power station. There would be numerous "Chernobles" throughout Africa

 

[*Exor*]

Wow, just read these new posts. Guess what? I still don't give a shit.

I think Gumbo is right, we should cancel their debt, not sell them anything, and in turn just pull out of the area totally and let them sort themselves out. If they can't manage it themselves they deserve to live in shit quite frankly.

 

[xane]

Originally posted by dysfunction
I think thats a bit simplified and idealistic.

Many African countries have rejected GM crops themselves... and not because of Europe doesnt want them to have it....and yet their pop is starving.

I would be very worried if some african countries had nuclear power. They can barely maintain streets let alone a nuclear power station. There would be numerous "Chernobles" throughout Africa

Proposing the provision of clean water and plenty of food makes you an "idealist" ???

So what _other_ reasons have Africans rejected GM crops ? Consultations with "experts" have all been from Europe, do you think they'd reject GM food on the basis of a slight chance of cancer when people are dying from starvation ? No, the only reason Africa rejects GM is because Europe doesn't want it.

The old "Chernobyl" argument again against nukes. Maybe you'd consider the good old fashioned smog generating fossil fuel power plants, or maybe the pie-in-the-sky dream of lots of little windmills along the coast, or how about just letting the morons starve anyway ?

Got any answers instead ?

 

[dysfunction]

Originally posted by xane
Proposing the provision of clean water and plenty of food makes you an "idealist" ???

So what _other_ reasons have Africans rejected GM crops ? Consultations with "experts" have all been from Europe, do you think they'd reject GM food on the basis of a slight chance of cancer when people are dying from starvation ? No, the only reason Africa rejects GM is because Europe doesn't want it.

The old "Chernobyl" argument again against nukes. Maybe you'd consider the good old fashioned smog generating fossil fuel power plants, or maybe the pie-in-the-sky dream of lots of little windmills along the coast, or how about just letting the morons starve anyway ?

Got any answers instead ?

No I dont have any solutions....

I dont think any of your suggestion are practicle enough to work in the long term...

South Africa which is a lot more developed than most other countries in Africa. It only has 1 nuclear power station which doesnt supply much power in the whole scheme of things....and it costs more money to run than it can sell electricity....

I also dont know where you will find water in Africa either which will be needed for the crops anyway. Since most of Africa is suffering from drought.

 

[GDW]

I think that those of you who feel strongly about this should stop sitting on your fat arses and do something about it, rather than posting how strongly you feel about it to random faceless people on a forum.

/apologies to any of you who actually have made an effort to do something.

 

[old.RedVenom]

Its a theoretical problem with theoretical answers. For most of us anyway - we're not starving, so we don't care.

/o\

 

[*Exor*]

Originally posted by old.RedVenom
we're not starving, so we don't care.

You said it!

 

[GDW]

Originally posted by old.RedVenom
Its a theoretical problem with theoretical answers. For most of us anyway - we're not starving, so we don't care.

/o\

Theres nothing theoretical about the problem whatsoever.