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hercules-df
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- #31
i agree. I nuke for about half what i GET nuked for in rvr, specced 50 ice. vs melee its even worse
i agree. I nuke for about half what i GET nuked for in rvr, specced 50 ice. vs melee its even worse
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noaim
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- #32
Ehh ok, yeah thats unfair, seeing you get damageadd baseline while mids and hibs have to spec for it.
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hiban
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- #33
lmao! All who seriously believes in this crap should be locked up somewhere, and have the key thrown away.
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elder_theurgist
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- #34
oh
So you think its perfectly fair we have the same abilitys as you have, but need more classes to get it!
Well at least we know you idea of balance....
Quib
So you think its perfectly fair we have the same abilitys as you have, but need more classes to get it!
Well at least we know you idea of balance....
Quib
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hiban
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- #35
Albs have 14 classes, hib 13 and mid 12. Difference aint THAT big. And is it really fair that albion has more classes to chose from (If you look at it from that perspective)? I wouldnt mind having 1 or 2 more classes to play in mid or hib, but thats not the point. Do YOU really believe that a class with petspam, pbt, bolts, specnukes etc (obviously what that class would look like if that american TL moron got what he wishes out of the class), would be "balanced"?
quote:
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DUDE, DROP THE CRACK PIPE.
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Kinda what he said.
Originally posted by Xethron
1) run-spell in base fire
2) damage shield to base fire
3) dd/snare in spec earth
4) nearsight in spec earth
5) up delve of spec ice pbAoE
6) add pBT to spec ice OR ice elementals
1. You have that on 2 classes already. Hib and mid got it on 1 each.
2) so u want the highest dmg add and a dmg shield as baseline? Though its fine with me, as dmg shield suck ass for all other than PvE anyways.
3) A good line already, but sure. might need a more spell. Though i doubt another specnuke would fit in it.
4) So you have 2 classes with nearsight? Nearsight is one of teh absolute best spells in game. A spell that can easily make a supporter/nuker handicaped for the entire fight. Mid have 1: supp rm (which there are pretty few of. ppl use it to lvl, then respec most of the time). Hib have 1. Light eldritches. Guess how many THEY are?... Cabalist gets it in matter spec. Thats pretty common afaik?
5) No
6) So u have pbae, snarenuke, dd with cold resist debuff, ae with cold resist debuff and pets that spam 3 sec stuns that u cant get imune to, while u bolt and specnuke?
Many nice thoughts. But most of them would make wizards WAY too powerfull. If they need any changes at all, its nothing big.
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Whisperess
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- #36
Is this the same TL that wanted a morph form for Wizards? ( Kinda like Rat/Stag mode? )
He is the main problem of Wizards tbh.
As for PBAE, I agree that Wizards should get the 331 delve and SM's 325 ( being SM myself ).
Why?
Quite simple really. Alb's PBAE is Cold based, very very common to have high group cold resist spells, much less chance to have (as) high spirit/energy.
As to more fixes, well - there are many ways to look at it, but Mythic cba.
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old.Ramas
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- #37
He's doing as well as can be done.
Since he's been flat out told by Mythic that wizards can't have more damage and that they can't have more utility - but also that Mythic accept they are under par, what on earth is he left with?
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Deskiziado
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- #38
To hibs and mids: make an alb pbae group and compare with hib and mids pbae groups, what we get and what you get.
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elder_theurgist
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- #39
Well at least you do more or less admit that there is some problems - And yes some of the suggested things are way overpowered.
BUT:
That would make albs wery happy too, because that would have to be 1 or 2 classes that gets their abilitys from some of the other classes, and then the classes its taken from would lose those abilitys....
then all 3 realms would be about equal
As a sidenote: Bring 1.65 alive, then I belive the game is as balanced as it have ever been
(savages and debuff nuke nerfed, and sorc/theurg/cabby twicked a bit).
Tho I must say that im affraid hib caster groups will be overpowerd gain after ToA
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hiban
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- #40
Wardens get their last spirit resist at 48 spec. Shamans get the cold resist at 45. I can tell you that there are far more wardens specing 48 or 49 for all resists, than there are shamans specing aug to 45. Most shamans that takes aug higher than 40, stops at 42 for the intell and last end buff. If not, they would more or less be bbs. Also, wizards can debuff for their own pbae. (AE dd with cold resist debuff). No other pbae class got that. Dunno if they "fix" the debuff on that one when they do it to rms, cabalists and chanters debuffs though.
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lac_desariel
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- #41
lol Ice wizz can debuff its own pbae.. have you ever played a pbae class? or ice wiz for that matter?
debuff is a 4 sec class and when you use it it hits there fore breaking any kinda CC, we dont have aoe stun ... and also if said zerk or savage is tearing me up you realy think im gonna cast a 4 sec debuff for 10% before my 2 sec pbae?
in theroy its nice but only theroy, and no dont merg wiz with theurg,... wiz needs some thing but dunno what.. imo GIVE Ice bolt ;p
debuff is a 4 sec class and when you use it it hits there fore breaking any kinda CC, we dont have aoe stun ... and also if said zerk or savage is tearing me up you realy think im gonna cast a 4 sec debuff for 10% before my 2 sec pbae?
in theroy its nice but only theroy, and no dont merg wiz with theurg,... wiz needs some thing but dunno what.. imo GIVE Ice bolt ;p
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hiban
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- #42
I didnt say youre supposed to use it in open field as a starting nuke. BUT using it when landing a mezz, run into the crowd, AE dd nuke with debuff, moc, spam pbae? *insert pressing the key of VP here somewhere as well* (might just be theory, but it should work just as well as for any other pbae class) And a fully buffed ice wizard casts pretty much faster than spell base speed, dont they? Or are you all running around in epic, unbuffed?
Its seems its always so easy for albs to see what hib/mid got, and to tell them how to use their classes, and what their classes can do and are able to perform. But when speaking of alb classes, it seems you are always comparing one unbuffed warder in dropped equipment and epic versus a fully buffed sc:ed rr5+.
As for a specbolt in ice... You have that in the 2 other speclines already, so it might be a bit... u know...
Tbh, i dont know what other spell that could go in what lines. But some of the suggestions here are prolly made when high on fumes from something toxic.
Edit: Yeah, i have played pbae:er. Never ice wiz though, as i dont play in albion anymore.
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bellum
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- #43
If enough people moves to WOW when it comes, maybe Mythic will start acting.
And if they dont you have probably a better game to play with WOW anyway
And if they dont you have probably a better game to play with WOW anyway
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lac_desariel
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- #44
never do i tell other realms to play there classes, every class is different and i dont play them enuff to know.. but the theroy off aoe debuff the pbae is a no no
yes the speed of a cast drops and tbh i can drop 2 pbae in time it takes to do aoe debuff i know what will kill faster
yes ice bolt ids too much but we have dreams i dunno the answer, maybe aoe debuff or something, even a stun or mezz but wiz is lacking
all wish and hope only mithic know what they doing
yes the speed of a cast drops and tbh i can drop 2 pbae in time it takes to do aoe debuff i know what will kill faster
yes ice bolt ids too much but we have dreams i dunno the answer, maybe aoe debuff or something, even a stun or mezz but wiz is lacking
all wish and hope only mithic know what they doing
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Recundis
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- #45
I would put in a suggestion but i play hib now so lol
No seriously perhaps giving a baseline stun (i know its utility and myythic said no) but stunning then nuking or pbaeing is very effective ofc it will last like 2 sec's on a det4 tank but hey lets hope for al casters sake in the RA review it either gets a serious nerfing or killed of and replaced with something less overpowered.
The aculity buff sounds good but i would take mythic 3 patchs to get it to stack with a cleric one even if it was meant to be cumlative to start with
No seriously perhaps giving a baseline stun (i know its utility and myythic said no) but stunning then nuking or pbaeing is very effective ofc it will last like 2 sec's on a det4 tank but hey lets hope for al casters sake in the RA review it either gets a serious nerfing or killed of and replaced with something less overpowered.
The aculity buff sounds good but i would take mythic 3 patchs to get it to stack with a cleric one even if it was meant to be cumlative to start with
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old.Ramas
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- #46
Rightly or wrongly, Mythic consider the current crowd-control settlement to be final.
Absolutely no way they'd open up that particular can-o-worms again.
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Recundis
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- #47
Yeah i know but hey lets face it patch 1.98 wizzy will still do OK damage and still have no utility
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Xethron
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- #48
before you run off you mouth stop and think for a minute
1) Sorc and Theurg have run spell yes, but:
thurg will be running pBT (and they cant insta switch like a warden between them they have to stop and cast (4s) not going to happen in a fight = no speed
they added a token grp DET chant to sorcs though most are only 36 Domination spec so they aren’t a "ooops everyone is immune to mez I cant do anything else now because I have not and AoE root ooh look I'm dead" so they run the 5% DET chant that is at low 30s spec = no speed mincer need to switch inst to mez / chant ablative – all our speed is out in combat…
therefore unlike having a chanter in your grp who can leave their speed on in combat and give all the pets in the group speed during the fight to get to the support quickly to interrupt and take them out of the fight we cant - need another class with speed that is not required by the group to run a different chant that cant be twisted + will aid the wizard solo and make pick-up grps easier as they will more easily be able to get a speed class
2) I never asked for a higher base dmg shield that was someone else however earth wiz needs to spec b.high to get this spell and all hib casters get the same spell in base:
the other poster said that the DPS should be upped like the spec damage add was in the RM darkness line but I said put it in base to up until of all sec wiz and compensate the nerf sorry earth spec wiz by replacing with a spec single target damage which brings me to your third point...
3) you have to be kidding ?? it is well known that there used to be no reason to spec in earth long time ago as it was sh1te, Mythic put a load of spells in the line but they don’t really work together:
- spec bolt but variable unspec’d base bolt to go with
- spec DoT but no base DoT to stack with it
- Dmg shield but no better than hib base line but have to spec for it
- AoE root - matter type so resists might be slightly less than theurg AoE cold but then AoE DD/snare which is matter based so if AoE root used are immune to it therefore useless + 4s cast time (currently) how many of those will you get off as a hairy assed tank is charging at you at speed 6 ?
- oh don't let me forget the real kick in the teath gtAoE which was ment to be an Alb theurg siege specialist only spell and it got given to everyone instead but in alb it was put into an unviable line and so we dont have it but the other realms have, and before you say it I know that there are not that many voiders or RC RM left but at least those lines are viable and have nice things like debuffs in
4) no not really cabbies are a pain in the ass to level and most cabbies I know have re-spec'd to spirit for the body debuff so they can be a poor copy of a chanter debuffing + base nuke without pbAoE or speed - I know also they do have som other tricks and I also know that a well played spirit cabby can do well but that is not the point here
5) as said earlier unlike hibs who have base line stun or mids who have AoE stun pb-wiz have a a hard time (not even going into the comparison of the wiz-ice line with eld-mana) this would at least make them feel a little better if not helping hugely
6) hello ?? wiz dont have any pets that's theugs and as said before the AoE debuff just does not cut it by people who have actually tried not what your opinion says, my suggestions were to give a wiz a nice trick to aid him in his suicidal job of running in without a stun and tring to kill people pb in the form of some protection against melee OR temp ice mentals to hid amongst and maybe help make up for not having insta str/con debuff disease and other nice things
Sorry this is a little abrupt but you have hit a nerve, I don’t want my class to be uber, id don’t want Alb to win everything but I would like to see some balance as being out tooled most of the time is damn annoying, these are not demands either but just some thoughts to make the class more interesting to play and more en-par to other casters
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pitspawn
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- #49
Nah, wizards already have 3 bolts which is more than enough. IMO although ice is lacking quite a lot, having pbae is a BIG plus to the line.
Fire needs a few perks in spec, maybe one or two extra goodies (currently fire only has spec bolt, base bolt, spec dd and spec ae dd [useless currently at 4.0s with 100% dmg fall off]) Ice also needs a few perks in spec. Earth needs a lot of perks in spec, by far the least played spec line for wizards.
Sadly, about the only reason wizard population is quite high atm is because of what wizards are. People dig all the cool explosions, they love the pbaoe for leveling but ultimately its all superficial. If half the people had rolled body sorc/spirit caba instead of a wizard, Albion would (sadly) be a lot better off in rvr.
I dont regret rolling my wizards, i have belief that one day they might just get the loving they deserve. Until then, i will make do with what i have, and use every legitimate advantage to my disposal (Alchemy, SC, buffbots etc)
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hiban
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- #50
1) Kinda same as runemasters. And wardens pbt is insta, their speed is not.
2) yeah, and u get 10dps baseline dmg add. Hibs have to spec enchantment for that. I would change my 4.x dmg shield for a 10dps damage add ANY day.
3) as i said: might need 1 more spell. Though a specnuke might not be the best thing to add a line with that much fun tools in it.
(yeah yeah, they all suck ass, but all alb classes and their abilities do)
4
They either spec matter (and get nasty ae dots that hits for loads) or spirit it seems... Have u ever met a spirit cabalist? I have. And i can tell you that they are FAR from poor. Debuffing their own baseline LIFETAP for 50% and then spam away. While that fully buffed (littetally) pet smashes your head in and poisons and diseases or nukes you. They get pet run speed as well, right? But as you said, that isnt the point. We are talking about wizards and theurgs here.
5) Clerics got stun in baseline. (sure they heal as well. But one successfull stun should cost much less power than spamming heals on a clothwearer getting his head pierced) And you got tanks to stun and chainguard.
6)
And ofc i hit a nerve. You always do when you discuss alb classes.
2) yeah, and u get 10dps baseline dmg add. Hibs have to spec enchantment for that. I would change my 4.x dmg shield for a 10dps damage add ANY day.
3) as i said: might need 1 more spell. Though a specnuke might not be the best thing to add a line with that much fun tools in it.
(yeah yeah, they all suck ass, but all alb classes and their abilities do)
4
They either spec matter (and get nasty ae dots that hits for loads) or spirit it seems... Have u ever met a spirit cabalist? I have. And i can tell you that they are FAR from poor. Debuffing their own baseline LIFETAP for 50% and then spam away. While that fully buffed (littetally) pet smashes your head in and poisons and diseases or nukes you. They get pet run speed as well, right? But as you said, that isnt the point. We are talking about wizards and theurgs here.
5) Clerics got stun in baseline. (sure they heal as well. But one successfull stun should cost much less power than spamming heals on a clothwearer getting his head pierced) And you got tanks to stun and chainguard.
6)
I never said they had. But thats what some ppl would like the class to look like.
And ofc i hit a nerve. You always do when you discuss alb classes.
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hiban
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- #51
If they spec 36 domination, they can still spec 40 in body, which gives them a lvl 39, 60 sec ae root?
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ola-
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- #52
dont alb mages get baseline dmg add...?
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pitspawn
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- #53
dont hib mages get ranged target 1500m 9 second baseline stun?
Stun > 4.0 DPS Damage shield (We could do this all day with various other spell differences, so please drop it)
Seriously, go look at what wizards have to play with before making them sound like they are on par with other realm casters. Theyre simply not.
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Xethron
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- #54
I was talking about 46 or 49 domination spec sorcs sorry if that was not clear - giving 28 or 22 in body to get the 10% or 15% DET chant but I was trying to comment on the fact that a none split spec sorcerer losses out on a lot of utility for a better AoE mez, better power crack and a bit higher than token DET chant but with what you loose in body spec line (AoE root, medium spec nukes, 30%heat/cold/matter debuffs) not worth it
you may have missed my point as I was trying not to stray far from my point so I did not explan very well beause of these chant spells (DET/sorc and pBT/theurg) once the minstrel stops playing his drum for flute or melee/ablative speed drops and nice trick like pets racing across the field of enguagement as seen in hibs grps cant be done
No, elementalists do but not mages - we have 4 casting classes
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hiban
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- #55
Think he was more refering to the wizzards whining at having to spec for dmg shield, while hibs get it in baseline. And Hibs having to spec a totally crap line, to get a damage add like the ones wizards get.
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lac_desariel
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- #56
if a cleric is using stun then as a caster im gonna pick onother one.. reasons being.. stun imunity if that target isnt dead my pally can slam, and that means dead caster 2ndly we get hit hard and easy save power for healing.
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old.Ramas
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- #57
Personally, for the purposes of rvr, I would rate the value of castable stun as zero, and the value of damage shield as some negative amount.
So yes, I guess stun > damage shield.
But sensible duration root and damage add are better than either of them
So yes, I guess stun > damage shield.
But sensible duration root and damage add are better than either of them
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hiban
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- #58
Huh? You used babelfish translation program here?
Dunno what u mean with the stuns here, but no matter whos casting it, its same for all realms. Not only albion gets imunities after casts and effects
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corentmm
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- #59
This is sort of reminisent of warriors - a fairly uninteresting class in terms of utility but one that should do plenty of damage - I believe warriors were given a weaponskill bonus (correct me if I'm wrong) so there is precedent for some sort of general damage increase for wizzies (or maybe slighty less resists, higher effective spell level is the equivalent of WS for casters?).
Pendantic bit : Mid has 2 classes with caster speed, one in base one in spec - same as albs [RM in RC base and healer in aug spec]. Necros also get pbae but I can't say I've ever seen one use it and there are obviously lots of other problems with necro RvR.
Pendantic bit : Mid has 2 classes with caster speed, one in base one in spec - same as albs [RM in RC base and healer in aug spec]. Necros also get pbae but I can't say I've ever seen one use it and there are obviously lots of other problems with necro RvR.
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Fafnir
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- #60
While you are at it why not merge Thane with SB and Healer.