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old.Atrox
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- #121
Sorry to burst your bubble, but your wrong. Spears are 50/50 dex/str so increased DEX = Increased Weaponskill/dmg = More dmg better chance to hit
Sorry to burst your bubble, but your wrong. Spears are 50/50 dex/str so increased DEX = Increased Weaponskill/dmg = More dmg better chance to hit
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infozwerg
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- #122
The fella ive been quoting said something like: hunters have more dex than tanks, so they hit more often.
Apart from the cool rhetorical effect you were copying of me, Atrox, you will agree that this is wrong, as dex has nothing whatsoever to do with a tanks weapon. For the record, with a midgard tanks weapon.
Now for the interesting part: Does weaponskill increase chance to hit? I dont know that for sure, but i somehow doubt it. Ive never read of someone actualy testing this. The camelot herald says weapskill determines how much you get out of your attributes. The herald also says that chance to hit is determined by level and compare bonus. We also know that there is a to-hit bonus on most styles and a to-hit bonus for being part of a group. Conclusio: Dex could be a factor in determining how often a hunter hits with spear, or it could be not. I dont know it and you dont know it either, Atrox.
Back on topic: Hunters DO hit less than Warriors. Why? Obviously because Mythic designed them NOT to be Warriors. Technically because Warriors roll on the Tank table, Hunters on the Rogue table
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old.chesnor
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- #123
Afaik DEX does not affect the chance to hit. Hunters use DEX/STR to determine dmg, not chance to hit.
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old.anubis
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- #124
chance to hit depends only on the level difference
weapon bonuses and style bonuses increase chance to hit
lvl 50 rm bashing with his stick will have the same miss ratio against drakulvs as lvl 50 zerk (wanna try?
)
weapon bonuses and style bonuses increase chance to hit
lvl 50 rm bashing with his stick will have the same miss ratio against drakulvs as lvl 50 zerk (wanna try?
)
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old.Atrox
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- #125
I'll try to find more info about the hit and what effects it.
as it's been said this thread is just a circle atm so I guess I'll put my final thoughts about this subject:
Rouge's are NOT as good group chars as classes with group abilitys, thou rouges are an important class for the realms RvR performance, in scouting/stalking enemy forces in your own backyard, recon in hostile territory ( SB's inside Hostile keeps ). Hunters got the gift to stealth and suprice enemy archers/mages, who attacks from the walls, mages doesnt, so an enemy thats aware of the situation is most likely to avoid attacks that may give the mages an opportunity to strike them, while a hunter whos ready may get 1 crit off and 1 norm shot, that would put the enemy archer down to 20 - 40 % hp if they use a fast bow, and probably death if they use a slow critbow.
SB's that coops can with ease take out anyclass in the game, their job are as follow ( in Keep raid ); Take out Defenders/bowmans inside the keep, take out repairmen, and cause overall havoc inside the keep.
Rouges ARE important in keep raids, they are not a MUST, but they will make things alot easier.
In standar Emain RvR rouges are the best scout classes, hence the number of enemy stealthers around that area, an unstealthed class would most likely be wiped out. In stand off Archers and mages are those who make the most dmg cuz of their range dmg, at these occasions grouped Archers grouped DO share their RP's, being grouped at these occasions are good, buff's/dmg chants, thou Range attackers are weak in close-combat, and we would not survive long without backup from tank's and support classes.
That's the RvR part, there is more to it then I can write or will write atm.
In PvE rouges are the less usefull group, even spiritmasters are more usefull with there mezz ability and nukes, so if your looking for an uberxpgroup, dont include us since we can "only" give you extra dmg ( I dont know the effects in SB's styles, so I wont discuss that, neither talk about Hunters spears style effects since most of it van be done by other classes).
I am ok with the fact that I dont get invited to groups becuz of my effectivness in PvE situasion, but for the fact that ppl need to fill the group/need some extra dmg/just wanna be nice.
Thou ecludeing an class, as been said in this thread, cuz they will most likely NOT contribut anything for you as a person, in form of rp's, is VERY selfish, instead think of what they can and probably will contribute to the REALM ( remember the basic thoughts of game layout in daoc, Realm versus Realm ).
Something is VERY wrong when we have to discuss things like these, that we cant work as a realm even inside our realm, How are we supposed to work as realm in RvR when we cant work as it in PvE ?
I wont discuss facts like the ones that Tanks do better in PvE then rouges, but I still belive that Daoc is about Teamwork rather then effectivness, and most of all it's about haveing FUN
my last 2c
as it's been said this thread is just a circle atm so I guess I'll put my final thoughts about this subject:
Rouge's are NOT as good group chars as classes with group abilitys, thou rouges are an important class for the realms RvR performance, in scouting/stalking enemy forces in your own backyard, recon in hostile territory ( SB's inside Hostile keeps ). Hunters got the gift to stealth and suprice enemy archers/mages, who attacks from the walls, mages doesnt, so an enemy thats aware of the situation is most likely to avoid attacks that may give the mages an opportunity to strike them, while a hunter whos ready may get 1 crit off and 1 norm shot, that would put the enemy archer down to 20 - 40 % hp if they use a fast bow, and probably death if they use a slow critbow.
SB's that coops can with ease take out anyclass in the game, their job are as follow ( in Keep raid ); Take out Defenders/bowmans inside the keep, take out repairmen, and cause overall havoc inside the keep.
Rouges ARE important in keep raids, they are not a MUST, but they will make things alot easier.
In standar Emain RvR rouges are the best scout classes, hence the number of enemy stealthers around that area, an unstealthed class would most likely be wiped out. In stand off Archers and mages are those who make the most dmg cuz of their range dmg, at these occasions grouped Archers grouped DO share their RP's, being grouped at these occasions are good, buff's/dmg chants, thou Range attackers are weak in close-combat, and we would not survive long without backup from tank's and support classes.
That's the RvR part, there is more to it then I can write or will write atm.
In PvE rouges are the less usefull group, even spiritmasters are more usefull with there mezz ability and nukes, so if your looking for an uberxpgroup, dont include us since we can "only" give you extra dmg ( I dont know the effects in SB's styles, so I wont discuss that, neither talk about Hunters spears style effects since most of it van be done by other classes).
I am ok with the fact that I dont get invited to groups becuz of my effectivness in PvE situasion, but for the fact that ppl need to fill the group/need some extra dmg/just wanna be nice.
Thou ecludeing an class, as been said in this thread, cuz they will most likely NOT contribut anything for you as a person, in form of rp's, is VERY selfish, instead think of what they can and probably will contribute to the REALM ( remember the basic thoughts of game layout in daoc, Realm versus Realm ).
Something is VERY wrong when we have to discuss things like these, that we cant work as a realm even inside our realm, How are we supposed to work as realm in RvR when we cant work as it in PvE ?
I wont discuss facts like the ones that Tanks do better in PvE then rouges, but I still belive that Daoc is about Teamwork rather then effectivness, and most of all it's about haveing FUN
my last 2c
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old.chesnor
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- #126
my last 2c on this subject.
All I ever said basically were that rogues aren't good PvE chars. I know this, and any amout of 'I soloed a red with 6 evades' kidology won't change my mind. It's fact. What rogues are really good at is RvR, this is why we have so many rogues.
If you make a rogue, you really have no grounds on which to moan about not getting high level groups. At the lair, (for a great example) almost every class who isn't 100% needed (healers, fenders) sits on that hill getting turned down for one reason or another.
Finally, I am not anti rogue. Just anti people who roll rogues for essentially selfish reasons (to be uber in RvR) then moan cos they can't get groups. In the words of my good friend NO SHIT, SHERLOCK !
All I ever said basically were that rogues aren't good PvE chars. I know this, and any amout of 'I soloed a red with 6 evades' kidology won't change my mind. It's fact. What rogues are really good at is RvR, this is why we have so many rogues.
If you make a rogue, you really have no grounds on which to moan about not getting high level groups. At the lair, (for a great example) almost every class who isn't 100% needed (healers, fenders) sits on that hill getting turned down for one reason or another.
Finally, I am not anti rogue. Just anti people who roll rogues for essentially selfish reasons (to be uber in RvR) then moan cos they can't get groups. In the words of my good friend NO SHIT, SHERLOCK !
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soullessminion
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- #127
umm
just saw chesnors last note im only lev 17 atm so long time till i reach lair (im a supresion SM so dont want over 35 till i get my pbae) His post says if your not 1 of the nesisary classes expect a long wait. just like to say ok fair enough i say sod the list id prefer when 1.51 comes to take all those rejects to form pbae groups
just saw chesnors last note im only lev 17 atm so long time till i reach lair
(im a supresion SM so dont want over 35 till i get my pbae) His post says if your not 1 of the nesisary classes expect a long wait. just like to say ok fair enough i say sod the list id prefer when 1.51 comes to take all those rejects to form pbae groups
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catjinia
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- #128
well as i play a ranger on hib, i know its tought to find groups, well any groups for that matter , i knew the kinda scenario i was going into with this char as 2 of my friends played them to lvl 40...
i totally agree with Atrox on the matter and that rogues may not offer the same kind of abilities as lets say a nuker or tank, yet saying that i play the game to enjoy it and have fun like most ppl here do on a daily basis.. i have played numerous other characters which have had rangers and shades in... and i didnt really care because i was there to enjoy it.
If people take the kind of attitude so many have adopted from either personal belief, internet articles or whatever then thats how they are and nothing will change it..
lets say for instance that u gain a lvl slower maybe by 10 mins with a ranger in the group than a nuker.. does that 10 mins really make a difference. I know it wouldnt to me.. after all i have a laugh with whoever is in my group because thats how i see the game in being.
People are very xp self centred with the kind attitude such as "i need to xp fast, fast as hell i want this lvl now!, argh a rogue he will slow me down, he sux, tell him were full"
Has for rp's i couldnt care less if i got them or not, only thing i enjoying is killing someone, rp's or not and most importantly enjoying myself with the group of ppl i play with that day or night... most of all if a keep raid were to be on trying to provide the service i am meant for the realm, so we can reap the rewards together
Oh and last thing before i shoot off, there maybe alot of selfish ppl out there who play rogues... but dont judge the ppl who play rogues and who are not like them, the kinda ppl like me who wanna have fun with who, whatever class u are
, i knew the kinda scenario i was going into with this char as 2 of my friends played them to lvl 40... i totally agree with Atrox on the matter and that rogues may not offer the same kind of abilities as lets say a nuker or tank, yet saying that i play the game to enjoy it and have fun like most ppl here do on a daily basis.. i have played numerous other characters which have had rangers and shades in... and i didnt really care because i was there to enjoy it.
If people take the kind of attitude so many have adopted from either personal belief, internet articles or whatever then thats how they are and nothing will change it..
lets say for instance that u gain a lvl slower maybe by 10 mins with a ranger in the group than a nuker.. does that 10 mins really make a difference. I know it wouldnt to me.. after all i have a laugh with whoever is in my group because thats how i see the game in being.
People are very xp self centred with the kind attitude such as "i need to xp fast, fast as hell i want this lvl now!, argh a rogue he will slow me down, he sux, tell him were full"
Has for rp's i couldnt care less if i got them or not, only thing i enjoying is killing someone, rp's or not and most importantly enjoying myself with the group of ppl i play with that day or night... most of all if a keep raid were to be on trying to provide the service i am meant for the realm, so we can reap the rewards together
Oh and last thing before i shoot off, there maybe alot of selfish ppl out there who play rogues... but dont judge the ppl who play rogues and who are not like them, the kinda ppl like me who wanna have fun with who, whatever class u are
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Olgark
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- #129
Played with a level 35 thane last night in the same group as my 35 hunter. I had a higher weapon skill than him by 200 points, meaning I would hit more frequentnly and have a better damage ratio as I could hit the CT's in the TL room for a average of 90 damage with the spear of element. Or shoot them with a average of 50 to 80 damage. It was when we got three hunters in the group when the CT's started to go down fast as the hunters stayed back shooting at the mobs while the tanks and one healer did their job. It was not until someone said we could do Trows that things went tits up, skalds/ healer mez's where resisted alot and so the group died.
With my self buff spell I got 377 ar so it may not be much but we hunters can do the same amount of damage to a mob with either a long range weapon or with the spear.
So before you post any more rubbish Estat about a class you have not played get your facts right.
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infozwerg
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- #130
interesting point. how do you know weapon skill affects chance to hit?
two words: STFU n00b
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Olgark
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- #131
Originally posted by infozwerg
interesting point. how do you know weapon skill affects chance to hit?
two words: STFU n00b
weapon skill does not effect the chance to hit I never said that , what it does do is alows you to hit at or nearer your damage cap at a more consistent rate.
With a spear it depends on your str / dex on your chance to hit a mob.
And I love your attitude towards me Estat you call me a nOOb. You make me laugh.
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Release
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- #132
Its a shame that someone told us they were changing realms and his/her reasons for doing so only for the whole thread to be turned into a flame, is sad very sad
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Garnet
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- #133
All i can say is that the weapon skill determines your damage you do to a mob or person. Thats why when you are res sick after being resed you have lower wep skill hence the fact you hit for less damage. Also the higher your str and dex with certain weps the higher the wep skill hence higher the damage output.
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infozwerg
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- #134
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old.Atrox
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- #135
What I've understod after quite alot researching, the only factors that determine base Chance to hit are LvL vs LvL and Class
thou I cant find any list with classes chance to hit.
This leave me with some questions thou,
Weaponskill = from the name I assume it's how you handle your weapon, chance to hit ( apperantly wrong )
Weaponskill determines dmg, so what the heck does the Weapondmg do ?
thou I cant find any list with classes chance to hit.
This leave me with some questions thou,
Weaponskill = from the name I assume it's how you handle your weapon, chance to hit ( apperantly wrong )
Weaponskill determines dmg, so what the heck does the Weapondmg do ?
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Olgark
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- #136
I found a formula that shows how it all works . It is posted on the VN boards some place.
and here is the link to the thread.
Hunters guide.
It seems to explain a bit more... well to me at least that is.
and here is the link to the thread.
Hunters guide.
It seems to explain a bit more... well to me at least that is.
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Noari
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- #137
lol, I can see that you´ve never tried "synchronized crits"
I can tell you, Its pretty easy...
quote from patch 1.46 release notes
"- Archers will hit more often in group situations - the group melee "to-hit" bonus has been increased. Archers (as well as any melee attacker) has more of a chance to hit a monster based on the number of people in the group. Archers now have a bonus over and above the regular melee bonus on "to-hit"."
another quote from patch 1.46 release notes
"- We've decreased (again) the aggro that archers do to monsters while fighting monsters. This means that archers can now do even more damage to monsters without having the monster turn on them. "
Tanks doesnt even need taunt moves to get agro of hunters
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-fonS-
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- #138
I dont get it why ppl hate rogues so much in exp party ?
Ok i know a serker would be better for the group but not so much its worth saying no to a fellow realm mate ...
My healer is now lvl 50 and so far i havent turned down a single rogue if we had a spot (been in group with 5 rogues 1 pulse 2 healers once
) and i actually didnt mind ...why is it ? is it the thought "ooohhh nooo it will take me 1 more houre to ding if we dont get perfect group" uhm i thought u guys played this game for fun ... why do u wanna shroten the duration of the fun ?
sorry for bad spelling
and if anyone feal offended by my threat ... they should
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fonS - 50healer
fonSe - 42Runie
fonSie - 43Hunter
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Tasans
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- #139
Xp whores and high lvl noobs are the reasons i stopped playing my main, i prefer tasking with random lowbies. Hell im in White Rose for some weeks and i doubt anyone from the guild knows it.
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old.Etoand
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- #140
And can I assume this is why we haven't seen Mel lately, since she's in the long grey wasteland of post-20?
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Subbiz
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- #141
BYEBYE OK NP GL HF THX
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Cowled
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- #142
Hi sco
Could u plz read my post (it's probably the last in this thread):
http://forums.barrysworld.com/showthread.php?postid=355664#post355664
That's my experience as a scout, u should try and read it.
/Cowled
Could u plz read my post (it's probably the last in this thread):
http://forums.barrysworld.com/showthread.php?postid=355664#post355664
That's my experience as a scout, u should try and read it.
/Cowled