Whos going to new non-toa servers?

[Svartmetall]

It's that whole "essential" business that makes it unfun - moment people see MLs and Artifacts as something they MUST HAVE NOW NOW NOW rather than either something fun to do or a goal for their character to achieve the fun is gone.

And the thing is, they actually aren't 'essential' anyway.

 

[Saggy]

And the thing is, they actually aren't 'essential' anyway.

In that case training up your skills isn't essential either. MLs+artifacts = more than twice effective character than one without MLs and artifacts, simple as that.

 

[Bracken]

No way I'd bother with a no-TOA server. Will just replace one set of issues with another - people will try and make templates based on other kinds of drops which will then become camped and many of the same problems will arise.

Might be interested in a no bb server, but then again couldn't be arsed to go through the process of building another char just for the sake of having non-botted fights.

 

[Flimgoblin]

In that case training up your skills isn't essential either. MLs+artifacts = more than twice effective character than one without MLs and artifacts, simple as that.

entirely depends on the situation - malice proc, som proc and some ML abilities will make you much nastier.

But being a perfecter ml10 won't help my cleric if I get mugged by a stealther unless I can set a fop down (in which case it'll be helping anyone in the radius).

The abilities gained from being higher RR are far more effective anyway.

 

[Saggy]

entirely depends on the situation - malice proc, som proc and some ML abilities will make you much nastier.

But being a perfecter ml10 won't help my cleric if I get mugged by a stealther unless I can set a fop down (in which case it'll be helping anyone in the radius).

Of course it's situational - talking in general here. If that stealther stuns you your insta heals wont help you at all and therefore you could have just forgot about speccing him at all.

The abilities gained from being higher RR are far more effective anyway.

Again situational but both ToA-stuff and RAs are just as effective and essential in general (both makes you stronger statwise and gives you stupidly overpowered and retarded abilities). Sure, the gap between low RR and high RR is huge thanks to NF-RAs but you seriously can't say that the gap between non-ToAed and ToAed character isn't too.

 

[Thadius]

I like the servers as they are now

All 3 realms have balance on open field, but hibs definately need to sort something out about shrooms.

They make keep fights long and boring, especially when your getting nuked for 250 a time from somewhere you cant even see

 

[Flimgoblin]

Again situational but both ToA-stuff and RAs are just as effective and essential in general (both makes you stronger statwise and gives you stupidly overpowered and retarded abilities). Sure, the gap between low RR and high RR is huge thanks to NF-RAs but you seriously can't say that the gap between non-ToAed and ToAed character isn't too.

I'd say some level 3 RAs are much more battle-swinging than most MLs (banelord excepted) - TWF, MOC, Static tempest, Charge etc.... again it does depend on the RA but in my (not very humble) opinion - a RR5 with no artifacts/MLs will be more powerful than an artifacted ML10 RR1.

opinion is divided and personally I find it easier to get artifacts and MLs than realm ranks

 

[Kittyfantastico]

I'm not LOL, I want a chance to try the master levels and see if I like them before scuppering them altogether.
Who knows I might like em...

Kitty

 

[Saggy]

I'd say some level 3 RAs are much more battle-swinging than most MLs (banelord excepted) - TWF, MOC, Static tempest, Charge etc.... again it does depend on the RA but in my (not very humble) opinion - a RR5 with no artifacts/MLs will be more powerful than an artifacted ML10 RR1.

ToA is more than just MLs, artifacts got overpowered abilities too. In general I dont see non-ToAed RR5 character even close as usefull as ToAed character. Anyway, whatever you think about it you can't deny that these two (RRs and ToA) have huge impact in RvR and both gives huge edge for those having them - that's why getting your character ToAed is "essential", one huge gap is more than enough so remove the another one as soon as possible if you want to RvR effectively. I'm open minded for differend views but disagreeing with this isn't even valid opinion in my books and would just prove that the person knows nothing about current state of RvR.

opinion is divided and personally I find it easier to get artifacts and MLs than realm ranks

I RvRed with ghetto-ToA-suit and low ML and yeah, I found getting MLs and Artifacts easier than RRs at that time - once I reached high enough ML and got good ToA-suit one gap between me and my enemies disappeared and everything was waaaaayyyyyy easier. Oh, I'm not one of the people whining about ToA-PvE, I just hate the stupidly retarded and overpowered abilities/spells it brings to RvR (and yes, I do hate NF-RA-system and I do hope Mythic completely redo it for this new server - its been done ToA in mind anyway). I've said this before and will say it again - ToA fixed broken PvE but broke working RvR and what it broke can never been fixed. Well, they did find a way to fix it - these new servers.

Let's put it this way:

We are proud to introduce our newest expansion called "Trials of Atlantis". In this new expansion players are rewarded with stupidly overpowered "must have" PvE-abilities after each realm rank and also by gaining new realm rank players are able to enter new PvE-zone with overpowered items with sick PvE-procs and PvE-charges.

Wet dream for PvErs? ToA items should have been Catacomps-type-of and MLs PvE-only (currently 50% on MLs doesn't even work in PvE:S).

 

[Staffzor]

Going to the new servers, and even getting a US account to do so (anyone have any links to decent import sites to UK would be much appreciated). I stopped playing DAoC end game as soon as ToA came in pretty much, after reading horror stories from yanks, and attempting to get a couple of scrolls myself. I then gave it one more chance on Camlann (possibly not the best place due to pvp gankage ruining raids I know ) in a guild group, got to almost ml5 and found I didn't have the time or energy to compete. On the alternate rules servers however I do wish they would roll back RAs and such to OF times, as with every realm having access to SoS and things for relatively cheap realm points and much lower active timers I think some of the counters that ToA brought out such as speed warps, and Bodyguard might be needed. As said by mythic tho they will attempt to fix any unbalancing parts, and for the first month or so at least it will be fun to fight fully equal realm rank enemies .

The only thing that would make me not go and play on this new alternative rules servers would be if they made the whole ml/artifact farm at least 10x faster.

 

[Saggy]

Warlord Cleric:
~25dex cap
~25con cap
~10acu cap
~150hp cap
~25% healing bonus
~25% power pool
Healer's Embrace (33% AE heal)
Moirai's Belt
ML10 Warguard: Point blank area effect shout that reduces damage of melee attacks on nearby allies by 25%.

... is equal to...

Aug Dex 3
Aug Con 3
Aug Acu 2
Toughness 3
Etheral Bond 3 (or something )
Mastery of Healing 5
MCL 1
Barrier of Fortitude 2
=98pts -> 7723625 RPs. More if you want to add something to equal HE (DI 1) Not to forget ToAed character has plenty of more important stuff which you can't get from RAs (casting speed, spell duration etc).

 

[Staffzor]

Took too long to edit, for the above I seen the FH post on US import of game a little to late.

 

[Flimgoblin]

saggy - you can get +stat caps without ToA (loads of +stat cap stuff in catacombs)

And you can't cover half the stuff you get with RAs (old or new - MoC for one) with what you get with artifact abilities.

Your example above is a bit contrived - noone in their right mind would buy mastery of healing 5 just to get a bit more % on a heal - they'd buy DI3 - something that you'd never match with artifact abilities (it's way better than a once every 15m aoe insta)

ToA/ML stuff does make a difference don't get me wrong I'm not saying it doesn't, but it's only _essential_ if you're trying to keep up with the gank groups who will in all likelihood have about 8 realm ranks head start on you, making your extra 100 hp on your 500 hp heal somewhat insignificant.

 

[Saggy]

saggy - you can get +stat caps without ToA (loads of +stat cap stuff in catacombs)

We know that for sure?

And you can't cover half the stuff you get with RAs (old or new - MoC for one) with what you get with artifact abilities.

Yes, you can't cover half the stuff you get from RAs by Artis/MLs - works in both ways.

Your example above is a bit contrived - noone in their right mind would buy mastery of healing 5 just to get a bit more % on a heal - they'd buy DI3 - something that you'd never match with artifact abilities (it's way better than a once every 15m aoe insta)

I know my example sucks, just wanted to show how much RPs is needed to cover some of the ToA-stuff.

ToA/ML stuff does make a difference don't get me wrong I'm not saying it doesn't, but it's only _essential_ if you're trying to keep up with the gank groups who will in all likelihood have about 8 realm ranks head start on you, making your extra 100 hp on your 500 hp heal somewhat insignificant.

They are not only essential against high RR gank groups, they are also essential against any ToAed group matching your, erm, "skill". MLs does make an huuuugeee difference in group RvR and artifacts surely makes an difference - spend more time in RvR and you'll notice it.

 

[chretien]

Warlord Cleric:
~25dex cap
~25con cap
~10acu cap
~150hp cap
~25% healing bonus
~25% power pool
Healer's Embrace (33% AE heal)
Moirai's Belt
ML10 Warguard: Point blank area effect shout that reduces damage of melee attacks on nearby allies by 25%.

All of which (apart from Healer's Embrace ad ML10 ability obviously) is possible with normal items purchasabel from CMs. You may need to pay a lot for some of the better utility stuff but none of it requires you to have a single artifact in yoru template. My Cleric has +25% buff bonus, +25% heal bonus +10% cast speed +20 dex cap, +18 con cap, +100(ish) hit cap and +40% power pool. He has one artifact - Kalare's Necklace - and hewouldn't lose a lot without it. Even if you refuse to set foot inside ToA, you can still benefit from the drops. The ToA stuff that really makes a difference are a couple of ML abilities (FZ, Grapple, BG, Summoning Mastery) and a couple of artifact abilities (battler proc, Eirene's, SoM etc) all of which are situational for the most part - just as most active RAs are.

 

[Flimgoblin]

MLs does make an huuuugeee difference in group RvR and artifacts surely makes an difference

no shit sherlock however the difference is nothing that RR difference or even availability of buffbots makes.

Other than a few examples (as chretien mentioned above) most of the ML abilities have more effect in sieges/tower farming in which case it doesn't matter if you personally don't have a power font since they don't stack and the bloke next to you just cast one.

the big exception to that being the banelord ML line which does make a big difference to 8vs8 ganking.

 

[Bellona]

everyone will

 

[Saggy]

no shit sherlock however the difference is nothing that RR difference or even availability of buffbots makes.

Ok, Sherlock, things that makes an huuuuuugeeee difference in RvR ain't essiential? Mm'kay, makes sense, really :rolleye:

Other than a few examples (as chretien mentioned above) most of the ML abilities have more effect in sieges/tower farming in which case it doesn't matter if you personally don't have a power font since they don't stack and the bloke next to you just cast one.

Go back and read about the ML-lines - you should, if you know anything about RvR, notice very powerfull RvR-abilities or totally overpowered RvR-abilities there.

the big exception to that being the banelord ML line which does make a big difference to 8vs8 ganking.

If you fail to see the huge benefits of other ML-lines yourself I'll explain those in few days, too busy atm

All of which (apart from Healer's Embrace ad ML10 ability obviously) is possible with normal items purchasabel from CMs. You may need to pay a lot for some of the better utility stuff but none of it requires you to have a single artifact in yoru template. My Cleric has +25% buff bonus, +25% heal bonus +10% cast speed +20 dex cap, +18 con cap, +100(ish) hit cap and +40% power pool. He has one artifact - Kalare's Necklace - and hewouldn't lose a lot without it. Even if you refuse to set foot inside ToA, you can still benefit from the drops. The ToA stuff that really makes a difference are a couple of ML abilities (FZ, Grapple, BG, Summoning Mastery) and a couple of artifact abilities (battler proc, Eirene's, SoM etc) all of which are situational for the most part - just as most active RAs are.

Too busy to reply but those are still ToA stuff wether they are Artifacts or not (we know very little about these servers ruleset).

 

[Darzil]

Too busy to reply but those are still ToA stuff wether they are Artifacts or not (we know very little about these servers ruleset).

And the same bonuses will be available from Cats. (+power cap seems more common than TOA - my Theurg has most power cap from Cats items)

On the buffbots thing, it's pretty much no out of group buffbots, but expect to see lots of solo people grouped with buffbot in the local keep, doing their ganking within 5000 units of it. It'll be pretty common to see keep sieges where the defenders have buffbots inside, but the attackers don't have anywhere safe for theirs.

Darzil

 

[Flimgoblin]

If you fail to see the huge benefits of other ML-lines yourself I'll explain those in few days, too busy atm

Warlord has a useful ML10

Banelord has a load of aoe interrupts

Perfecter has some fops which are nice and all but if you're not camping a tower or a bridge not much use - if you are then someone else will be there with one.

Sojourner has FZ on a 15m timer and phase shift

Battlemaster has grapple and bodyguard.

Stormlord has ... erm... well... they have the storms - see perfecter.

Convoker has the stupid ml9 pet if yer a pet class and not a lot other than some brittle guards otherwise.

Spymaster has a mezz poison - quite nice 1vs1 but you did say RvR.

Nice abilities and all - but the level 3 RAs all have more impact, heck a lot of the level 2 ones do too.

But hey if you want to think that you're not allowed into RvR without being ML10 with all the artifacts you can get your grubby hands on I can see I'm not going to persuade you otherwise....

 

[popa]

yes if no catacombs class

 

[Coldbeard]

Will prolly roll a char or two there

 

[Rookiescot]

In my humble opinion... TOA + Realm Rank + SC = an enviroment where the casual player could not realy compete.

Without a doubt those who put more hours into the game should be rewarded but what TOA did was destroy the poor sods who couldnt.

Add to that the outright "overpoweredness" a Buffbotted toon will have and it was all over for the casual player.

Yes its ok saying " But you optimise your toon" but the source of grief many of us have is that we CANT opt our toon because of time constraints.

Ergo casual players become RP cows.

Ergo casual players quite.


That for me is the biggest downfall of DAoC.

 

[Saggy]

Warlord has a useful ML10

Oh really?

[8] Defending Martyr Point blank area effect heal that costs the user 90% of their hit points, but heals all allies for 1000 hit points.

Mm'kay? Useless, that's what it is!

[3] Cowering Bellow Point blank area effect shout that sends realm enemy monsters running.

Really, such an useless ability

[2] Bolstering Battlecry Point blank area effect shout that heals allies' health, power and fatigue by 10% (Maximum number of targets effected is 16.)

Nope, no use for this ability?

Banelord has a load of aoe interrupts

Yes, that's true, but does it end there?

[10] Banespike Point blank area effect shout that boosts the damage of attacks from nearby allies by 25%. Allies -- 15 sec 900 sec 350 radius

Doesn't interupt, true, still might make an huge difference?

Perfecter has some fops which are nice and all but if you're not camping a tower or a bridge not much use - if you are then someone else will be there with one.

Sorry, but this is the end - you seriously dont have any idea of RvR

Dispel nearsight.

This is where you can see my first tears dropping.

[1] Purging Wave Cure all members of your group who are diseased. 2000 range.

Someone care to exlpain why disease is one of the most powerfull offensive spells?

Sojourner has FZ on a 15m timer and phase shift

True, those are the abilities I consider usefull in RvR too - FZ makes an difference.

Battlemaster has grapple and bodyguard.

Yeah, those are very powerfull abilities, but...

[9] Essence Dampen Style that procs a point blank area of effect that reduces the agility of enemy targets by 15%.
[10] Essence Shatter Style that procs a point blank area of effect that randomly dispels one positive effect from nearby enemies. Chains off Essence Dampen.

Hello?

Stormlord has ... erm... well... they have the storms - see perfecter.

Agreed, shitty RvR-ML-line.

Convoker has the stupid ml9 pet if yer a pet class and not a lot other than some brittle guards otherwise.

Oh yes, speedwarp is such an useless ability that gets whines all the time Not to forget that thanks to ToA each and every caster can get pet with ML9 :S

Speedwarp Ward that negates the effects of speed boosts for enemies who pass through it. Realm Enemies -- 300 sec -- 2000 radius

Spymaster has a mezz poison - quite nice 1vs1 but you did say RvR.

8)

Nice abilities and all - but the level 3 RAs all have more impact, heck a lot of the level 2 ones do too.

Haha, such an bullshit. Seriously, stand up and raise your hand and say - I dont know anything about RvR. Please?

But hey if you want to think that you're not allowed into RvR without being ML10 with all the artifacts you can get your grubby hands on I can see I'm not going to persuade you otherwise....

But hey, if you can quote me saying that then fine, have a nice midsummer 8) Oh no, shit, feck and other nasty words, you can't? Just trying to put words in my mouth? ;<

And the same bonuses will be available from Cats. (+power cap seems more common than TOA - my Theurg has most power cap from Cats items)

Seriously, we know very, very, very, very little about these new servers ruleset - or if you can please, quote Mythic saying that Catacombs items remains as they are, thank you.

Anyway, dont want to be harsh, but Flimgoblin please, find yourself a woman before trying to teach your father how to make babies, thanks.

 

[Saggy]

Not to forget that thanks to ToA each and every caster can get pet with ML9 :S.

Replace the "each and every" with most

 

[Rediknight]

Oh really?

Mm'kay? Useless, that's what it is!

Really, such an useless ability

Nope, no use for this ability?


Yes, that's true, but does it end there?

Doesn't interupt, true, still might make an huge difference?

Sorry, but this is the end - you seriously dont have any idea of RvR

This is where you can see my first tears dropping.

Someone care to exlpain why disease is one of the most powerfull offensive spells?

True, those are the abilities I consider usefull in RvR too - FZ makes an difference.

Yeah, those are very powerfull abilities, but...

Hello?

Agreed, shitty RvR-ML-line.

Oh yes, speedwarp is such an useless ability that gets whines all the time Not to forget that thanks to ToA each and every caster can get pet with ML9 :S


8)

Haha, such an bullshit. Seriously, stand up and raise your hand and say - I dont know anything about RvR. Please?

But hey, if you can quote me saying that then fine, have a nice midsummer 8) Oh no, shit, feck and other nasty words, you can't? Just trying to put words in my mouth? ;<

Seriously, we know very, very, very, very little about these new servers ruleset - or if you can please, quote Mythic saying that Catacombs items remains as they are, thank you.

Anyway, dont want to be harsh, but Flimgoblin please, find yourself a woman before trying to teach your father how to make babies, thanks.

moan, moan, moan, moan, moan, moan, moan, moan, moan, moan, moan, moan, moan, moan, moan, moan, moan, moan, moan, moan, moan, moan, moan, moan, moan, moan, moan, moan, moan, moan, moan, moan, moan, moan, moan, moan, moan, moan, moan, moan, moan, moan, moan, moan, moan, moan, moan, moan, moan, moan, moan, moan, moan, moan, moan, moan, moan, moan, moan, moan, moan, moan, moan, moan, moan, moan, moan, moan, moan, moan, moan, moan, moan, moan, moan, moan, moan, moan, moan, moan, FUCKIN MOAN!!!

SHUT THE HELL UP!!!!

For a start, check out what other people DO know before you start telling them what the score is - some of these people DO know whats going on where you don't - trust me on that, kay?

If everythings sucks so badly, then don't just dismantle it - Try the odd CONSTRUCTIVE comment once in a while, then maybe you're amazing knowledge maybe spread amongst the ORPG community and all games will magically become exactly what everyone wants.

Just because you can't use the ML abilities doesnt make them all useless either - ever think you maybe aren't using them when they were intended to be used? Or maybe you've not even used them at all and are just assuming from the description that they will obviously suck...

I don't know which it is, but you're just another whiner - you keep paying your subs, you keep playing the game, you keep twinking your toon until it's "uber" and then you come on FH and whine your face off til you have to go to bed...

Don't need you're negativity, cba to listen to your moaning...

 

[Saggy]

moan, moan, moan, moan, moan, moan, moan, moan, moan, moan, moan, moan, moan, moan, moan, moan, moan, moan, moan, moan, moan, moan, moan, moan, moan, moan, moan, moan, moan, moan, moan, moan, moan, moan, moan, moan, moan, moan, moan, moan, moan, moan, moan, moan, moan, moan, moan, moan, moan, moan, moan, moan, moan, moan, moan, moan, moan, moan, moan, moan, moan, moan, moan, moan, moan, moan, moan, moan, moan, moan, moan, moan, moan, moan, moan, moan, moan, moan, moan, moan, FUCKIN MOAN!!!

Haha

SHUT THE HELL UP!!!!

Will do.

For a start, check out what other people DO know before you start telling them what the score is - some of these people DO know whats going on where you don't - trust me on that, kay?

Mmm'kay.

If everythings sucks so badly, then don't just dismantle it - Try the odd CONSTRUCTIVE comment once in a while, then maybe you're amazing knowledge maybe spread amongst the ORPG community and all games will magically become exactly what everyone wants.

Sure thing.

Just because you can't use the ML abilities doesnt make them all useless either - ever think you maybe aren't using them when they were intended to be used? Or maybe you've not even used them at all and are just assuming from the description that they will obviously suck...

Christ Oo What I did was explaining which MLS are great, not that they are useless. Learn to read before you post reply, thank you. My point was that MLs makes an huge difference in RvR and therefore you have to consider those essential or you can't consider anything else essential either, get it?

I don't know which it is, but you're just another whiner - you keep paying your subs, you keep playing the game, you keep twinking your toon until it's "uber" and then you come on FH and whine your face off til you have to go to bed...

Nope, sorry.

Don't need you're negativity, cba to listen to your moaning...

What exactly was I moaning about?

'
Well, .

 

[Gorrion]

No way I'd bother with a no-TOA server. Will just replace one set of issues with another - people will try and make templates based on other kinds of drops which will then become camped and many of the same problems will arise.

Might be interested in a no bb server, but then again couldn't be arsed to go through the process of building another char just for the sake of having non-botted fights.

i would sacrifice all my toons in a sec and even pay twice the fee/ month if i knew that the opponent i met was " as originally intended" and not a buffed noob who cant play a character as it should be . . . any player who are, or have used a noob-boot in Daoc are useless retarded unskilled crapheads. buff-noobs have done more damage to the game than any ML - Artifact - Radar - window dragging or any other 3rd party program ever have.

 

[Illtar]

moan, moan, moan, moan, moan, moan, moan, moan, moan, moan, moan, moan, moan, moan, moan, moan, moan, moan, moan, moan, moan, moan, moan, moan, moan, moan, moan, moan, moan, moan, moan, moan, moan, moan, moan, moan, moan, moan, moan, moan, moan, moan, moan, moan, moan, moan, moan, moan, moan, moan, moan, moan, moan, moan, moan, moan, moan, moan, moan, moan, moan, moan, moan, moan, moan, moan, moan, moan, moan, moan, moan, moan, moan, moan, moan, moan, moan, moan, moan, moan, FUCKIN MOAN!!!

SHUT THE HELL UP!!!!

For a start, check out what other people DO know before you start telling them what the score is - some of these people DO know whats going on where you don't - trust me on that, kay?

If everythings sucks so badly, then don't just dismantle it - Try the odd CONSTRUCTIVE comment once in a while, then maybe you're amazing knowledge maybe spread amongst the ORPG community and all games will magically become exactly what everyone wants.

Just because you can't use the ML abilities doesnt make them all useless either - ever think you maybe aren't using them when they were intended to be used? Or maybe you've not even used them at all and are just assuming from the description that they will obviously suck...

I don't know which it is, but you're just another whiner - you keep paying your subs, you keep playing the game, you keep twinking your toon until it's "uber" and then you come on FH and whine your face off til you have to go to bed...

Don't need you're negativity, cba to listen to your moaning...

haha get a grip, you suck way too bad at reading...

 

[Sorgrind]

Depending on when this server comes up, I've seriously thought about coming back to DAoC because of it. I've played DAoC since SI came out and back then it rocked. I quit soon after Cata not because of it but because there was no point continuing in RvR without artis, ML's, uberdrops etc etc

However, new server sounds goooood