Whos going to new non-toa servers?

[Thornar]

I am wondering, what version will these servers run? Will it be NF?

I haven't followed the daoc-community in quite a while, so I have no clue about the new servers, honestly. :touch:

 

[Saggy]

I am wondering, what version will these servers run? Will it be NF?

These servers will be patched at the same with other servers so yeah, it will have NF.

- no access to ToA-zones (ToA isn't needed to activate Catacombs if you dont want to play ToA races).
- concentration buffs works differently.
- there will be changes made just for this server type (like there is changes just for coop or PvP servers).

 

[Raven]

i just really hope GOA make one too, if they dont i think i will move to the US servers, i want to make a new toon but really really cba with doing the toa thing again, not that its that hard its just so damn boring farming enough plat for a good temp.

 

[Flimgoblin]

*random trash*

You were complaining that ToA makes it impossible to compete without putting a stupid amount of effort into PvE - you were championing the cause of the casual player but you seem to have totally missed the point that a casual player will be stomped on by the groups/soloers in RvR that are 5 or 6 realm ranks higher than them - doesn't matter what MLs they have.

I'm not gonna bother responding to the rest - if you can't actually debate a subject without resorting to childish insults there's really little point. I do hope you realise your last paragraph there doesn't do your credibility any good.

 

[Flimgoblin]

Seriously, we know very, very, very, very little about these new servers ruleset - or if you can please, quote Mythic saying that Catacombs items remains as they are, thank you.

So far the information about the new server is as follows:

No access to ToA (the portals/boats don't take you there)
Range on buffs + group requirements.

That leaves in Catacombs. Ockham's razor and all that.

But if you want to start debating how the game would be if they deleted all heal spells we can do that too. I mean there's no statement from mythic saying that heals will remain on the new server.

 

[Flimgoblin]

Ergo casual players become RP cows.

Ergo casual players quite.


That for me is the biggest downfall of DAoC.

casual players have been RP cows since 1.50 - just ToA gave you a way to improve your character in PvE rather than on the OF emain racetrack.

 

[Deepflame]

casual players have been RP cows since 1.50 - just ToA gave you a way to improve your character in PvE rather than on the OF emain racetrack.

And soon we'll have RvR missions to PvE our ways to RR12!

 

[Flimgoblin]

And soon we'll have RvR missions to PvE our ways to RR12!

adds a bit more to RvR than "lets run across this bridge and back in the hope someone attacks" or "lets run around this bit of land in the hope there's another fg there" at least.

I think I read something once about RvR involving keeps and towers...

 

[Deepflame]

I don't RvR much at all, I usually end up at the bottom of the food chain. I don't have the time, nor the will to endure a dedicated opted RvR fg. RvR missions should get me some neat abilities for PvE though, as that's pretty much where I get the fun out of my game. That, and the community there ofcourse. RvR is there to provide some alternate entertainment, like defending keeps or towers.

 

[Raven]

... that a casual player will be stomped on by the groups/soloers in RvR that are 5 or 6 realm ranks higher than them - doesn't matter what MLs they have.

saying that though i have been stomped on playing my hero solo vs an ml9 warder sorc or cabby, it all depends what the class is, some outshine others realm rank or not solo. though i do agree with the realm rank a rog group wont stand a chance against a toa'd semi high/high RR group, its a shame but thats just the way mmos are supposed to work, the more you put in the more you get out. This may ofc be one of the reasons warlocks are hated, couple of days PL, quick vist to a CM, spend a plat or so, next stop RR10, sickoning (sorry to bring warlocks into it )

 

[Saggy]

You were complaining that ToA makes it impossible to compete without putting a stupid amount of effort into PvE - you were championing the cause of the casual player but you seem to have totally missed the point that a casual player will be stomped on by the groups/soloers in RvR that are 5 or 6 realm ranks higher than them - doesn't matter what MLs they have.

Care to quote me saying all that please? Lets see what I have said so far:

Post #:
31) A) I'll play on those servers. B) If ToA was the thing that made most of DAoC's magic to disappear surely removing it will help. C) Thanks to ToA "I MUST BE TEH PWNZOR" players are crushing everyone else waaaayyyyyy easier and waaaaaaaaaayyyyyyyyyyy faster.

33 A) Fully ToAed character is worth more than two non-ToAed characters. B) Making MLs can take years for casual player. C) Rich people can eBay cash and be done with scroll farming.

36 Direct question to Flimgoblin - no answer yet.

62 If you dont consider MLs+artifacts you can consider anything else essential either.

65 A) Explaining the above and agreeing that things are situational in this game. B) Saying that the gap between low RRs and high RRs is huge and so is the gap between non-ToAed and ToAed ones.

69 A) Both RRs and ToA-stuff has an huge impact in RvR. B) Removing the other gap, ToA, helps a lot. B) ToA PvE rocks but it broke the working RvR with its stupidly overpowered abilities (and NF made it worse with its RA-system). C) Direct question to Flimgoblin - no answer.

71 Example of how much RPs is needed to cover some basic stuff that you can get from ToA.

74 A) Direct question to Flimgoblin - no answer. B) You can't cover half of the RAs by ToA and the other way around. C) Saying the example in post #71 sucked and explained why I made it. D) Said that getting ToAed isn't essential only against gank groups, they are essential against any ToAed enemy matching your "skill" E) Asked Flimgoblin to spend more time in RvR to realize it.

78 A) Asking the logic behind "ToA makes huuuugeee difference in RvR but isn't essential". B) Threw in a bait and wanted to see if Flimgoblin had any idea what he is talking about C) We know very little about these new servers ruleset so Catacombs items may not get ToA-bonuses.

84 <Sniffs> Smells like I have a rude fish in hook (smells like booze, too ) A) Explained which MLs may give an huge benefit. B) Saying that claim of all lvl3 RAs are more powerfull than MLs is nothing but bullshit. C) Asking Flimgoblin to face the truth and admit that he knows nothing about RvR. D) Asking Flimgoblin to quote me saying "you're not allowed into RvR without being ML10 with all the artifacts you can get your grubby hands on", yet to be happen. E) Saying to Darzil that we know very little about these servers ruleset so Catacombs items may get changed.

85 "Edited" the above post.

87 Answered to someone who can't read.

92 Explained what we know for sure about these servers.

I'm not gonna bother responding to the rest - if you can't actually debate a subject without resorting to childish insults there's really little point. I do hope you realise your last paragraph there doesn't do your credibility any good.

Yeah, why bother to start responding now when the thread is 7 pages long? After you ignored my direct questions and started the "no shit Sherlock" I knew there was no point to discuss with you. You have absolutely no forum manners so I had to lower myself to near of your level (hey, maybe it worked, least you bothered to reply and gave you an good excuse to let the subject die). Still far away from it, mind you.

So far the information about the new server is as follows:

No access to ToA (the portals/boats don't take you there)
Range on buffs + group requirements.

That leaves in Catacombs. Ockham's razor and all that.

But if you want to start debating how the game would be if they deleted all heal spells we can do that too. I mean there's no statement from mythic saying that heals will remain on the new server.

I'm fully aware of that - cap increases and such bonuses, however, were something we got in ToA so there is a chance that those will be removed.

Anyway, let's get back to this "fresh" post

You were complaining that ToA makes it impossible to compete without putting a stupid amount of effort into PvE - you were championing the cause of the casual player but you seem to have totally missed the point that a casual player will be stomped on by the groups/soloers in RvR that are 5 or 6 realm ranks higher than them - doesn't matter what MLs they have.

1) I haven't complained ToAs timesink at all in this thread (or is saying that MLs can take ages to do complaining?). 2) Never said that casual players wont get steamrolled by 5-6 realm rank higher players just by getting MLs.

What I've said is that ToA makes and huuuuugeeee impact in RvR (what you agreed with) and therefore you have to consider ToA-stuff essential or you can't consider anything else essential either (or was my point in not speccing characters at all too hard to figure out?). I've said that by getting ToA-stuff done you remove one huugee gap between casual and hardcore players (yet another one, realm ranks, remains).

In your world it seems that there is only hardcore players fighting against casual players - in reality, however, hardcore players fight against hardcore players and casual players fight against casual players and that is, my dear friend, the situation where you'll notice how essential ToA stuff is. Oh, and casual player has much much better change to win if ToAed against hardcore player - you still will have hard time but least you dont have to be totally naked and unarmed.

And no, I'm not expecting Flimgoblin to reply on this yet another "random trash" post Oh, is this where I should play the "I-wont-reply-to-your-posts-anymore-because-of-reason-X" card? Nah, still hunting the new tittle which I want before actually getting my personal one

 

[Saggy]

I don't RvR much at all, I usually end up at the bottom of the food chain. I don't have the time, nor the will to endure a dedicated opted RvR fg. RvR missions should get me some neat abilities for PvE though, as that's pretty much where I get the fun out of my game. That, and the community there ofcourse. RvR is there to provide some alternate entertainment, like defending keeps or towers.

RvR missions do reward you with RPs which you can get RAs with though? Personally I think that RAs should be RvR-only and MAs PvE-only (both would need to be redone, ofc) - ding 50 and decide what to do: craft, get drops (yes, items should drop only in PvE, imo), enter the Frontier and slaughter the enemies or complete tons of adventures by slaying the dragons and other beasts Only logical that by professing (is that a word? ) on something you get better and stronger at that very same thing, imo.

 

[Kjel]

Might join too...Luwi/celt hero seems phun since so many planning run tank grps, good old faschion carebear for grp with shield.

And no toa is relief...

Pfff, old style Eclipse caster setup imo!
And luwi ofc! None can beat the fear instilled by a liddul rr11+ luri with a spear chasing them!

 

[Z^^]

pvp pre toa will never come back sorry but yea a server without mls/toa sounds fun less dmg and less casting time... but then that server might be abit wierd sence all power ras atm is so gimped and no fop make it abit differnet imo.

 

[Flimgoblin]

And no, I'm not expecting Flimgoblin to reply on this yet another "random trash" post Oh, is this where I should play the "I-wont-reply-to-your-posts-anymore-because-of-reason-X" card? Nah, still hunting the new tittle which I want before actually getting my personal one

Actually this post wasn't too bad - I'll respond to this one despite your tendency to argue in terms of "ooh I'm higher RR than you" (at least that's what I assume your "spend more time in RvR" means) or "go get laid" (I mean really, what is this a playground?)

Oh and the above is "paraphrasing" a useful tool for rewording what someone has said, useful to say what you think they said (rather than what they think they said) so that any errors in understanding can be corrected - obviously something you fail to catch the point of however in this case it did (finally) get something along the lines of:

What I've said is that ToA makes and huuuuugeeee impact in RvR (what you agreed with) and therefore you have to consider ToA-stuff essential or you can't consider anything else essential either (or was my point in not speccing characters at all too hard to figure out?). I've said that by getting ToA-stuff done you remove one huugee gap between casual and hardcore players (yet another one, realm ranks, remains).

out of you. tip: replace "said" with "meant" above, since your meaning before was entirely unclear.

Rather oddly we're making the same point, just in different ways - I'm saying that ToA is not essential because it's not going to matter if you're umpteen RR below your enemies anyway. You're saying that if you consider anything essential then ToA is also considered essential. Given I don't consider having high RR essential or having the fotm spec essential I obviously don't consider ToA essential. Heck I don't consider "winning all the time" essential.

Maybe it's just the word "essential" I have issues with - having a life outside the game and all that I don't consider anything in this game "essential".

Now I know that's probably not what you meant - more along the lines of "essential for enjoying this game" maybe? I'll couch that in "maybes" since you'll probably throw a quote tantrum and individually number all my sentences if I don't.

Now if that was what you meant, namely "essential for enjoying the game" then I'm very glad that I don't agree and can enjoy the game without being ML10 RR10 etc. with some completely "gimp" specs (should try a crossbow armsman - crap in a group but a good laugh solo).

You might have meant "essential for killing gank groups" which ToA ML10 may well be but frankly I couldn't give a damn about that since all the other things that are also essential for that ain't gonna happen either.

 

[Deepflame]

RvR missions do reward you with RPs which you can get RAs with though? Personally I think that RAs should be RvR-only and MAs PvE-only (both would need to be redone, ofc) - ding 50 and decide what to do: craft, get drops (yes, items should drop only in PvE, imo), enter the Frontier and slaughter the enemies or complete tons of adventures by slaying the dragons and other beasts Only logical that by professing (is that a word? ) on something you get better and stronger at that very same thing, imo.

I think they're a pretty cool ability as it'll offer people who aren't twinked a way to build a few realmpoints and get a couple of realm abilities with relative ease. Now, RVR missions don't really give loads of realmpoints, more like, 200, 300 per mission. But it'll be enough to see a dedicated person to RR3, roughly Leirvik level, which will open up some key abilities such as Purge, Determination, etc. This will let you live just a little longer in active RvR, especially if you're solo as a low realm rank.

 

[Flimgoblin]

RvR missions do reward you with RPs which you can get RAs with though? Personally I think that RAs should be RvR-only and MAs PvE-only (both would need to be redone, ofc) - ding 50 and decide what to do: craft, get drops (yes, items should drop only in PvE, imo), enter the Frontier and slaughter the enemies or complete tons of adventures by slaying the dragons and other beasts Only logical that by professing (is that a word? ) on something you get better and stronger at that very same thing, imo.

Interesting idea, kill dragons you get better at dragonslaying They'd have to remake all the ML and RA systems though so I doubt it'd happen (a lot of ML abilities just don't work in pve at all by design) unfortunately.

RvR missions may be pve in nature (the guard killing missions or the take a tower from npc guards ones anyway - the kill 15 people from midgard isn't but you can choose to avoid those).

They are in the frontiers though and in theory should involve some enemies coming to kill the people on the missions... (rather than just everyone avoiding everyone else to go do their own mission - you never know though)

Probably said this already but RvR missions have the additional advantage of giving some sort of meaning to RvR outwith taking towers and keeps (running around 8vs8 or whatever might be the best way to make RPs but it's just quake with swords, feels like running around in circles with no point.)

 

[Saggy]

Actually this post wasn't too bad - I'll respond to this one despite your tendency to argue in terms of "ooh I'm higher RR than you" (at least that's what I assume your "spend more time in RvR" means) or "go get laid" (I mean really, what is this a playground?)

Your posts clearly shows that you dont know much about RvR so I assumed you are just some PvEr who is trying to teach RvRs to RvR (come on, by looking your list of MLs one can only cry ). "Go get laid" was my response to phrase "no shit Sherlock" and the original one, which I edited, would have been "Dont try to teach your father how to f**k".

out of you. tip: replace "said" with "meant" above, since your meaning before was entirely unclear.

Well, I did ask you to quote me saying that stuff you claimed I had said - you seem to be the onlyone not getting my point though

Rather oddly we're making the same point, just in different ways - I'm saying that ToA is not essential because it's not going to matter if you're umpteen RR below your enemies anyway. You're saying that if you consider anything essential then ToA is also considered essential. Given I don't consider having high RR essential or having the fotm spec essential I obviously don't consider ToA essential. Heck I don't consider "winning all the time" essential.

I dont consider Fotm-spec essential (my specs are mostly far from fotm and I get laughed at because of it only to see that spec becoming new fotm in few weeks ) or winning all the time essential.

Maybe it's just the word "essential" I have issues with - having a life outside the game and all that I don't consider anything in this game "essential".

Your "essential" is probably too strong while I fitted it to fit this subject.

Now I know that's probably not what you meant - more along the lines of "essential for enjoying this game" maybe? I'll couch that in "maybes" since you'll probably throw a quote tantrum and individually number all my sentences if I don't.

Worry not, I do know how to read and word "probably" or just questionmark kinda does the same thing as word "maybe" The underlined part, however, is just something you had to say even if doesn't fit in this paragraph at all, sorry.

Now if that was what you meant, namely "essential for enjoying the game" then I'm very glad that I don't agree and can enjoy the game without being ML10 RR10 etc. with some completely "gimp" specs (should try a crossbow armsman - crap in a group but a good laugh solo).

My "essential" stuff are things that I can expect the enemy have - balanced and ToAed group/force. Like I said before I can't really enjoy RvRing if I feel I'm a burden for the group (dont mind playing with gimped character in group though, their choise) while I have no problems to solo with totally gimped character. Same goes for how I act in real life.

You might have meant "essential for killing gank groups" which ToA ML10 may well be but frankly I couldn't give a damn about that since all the other things that are also essential for that ain't gonna happen either.

Essential to fight any enemy matching your "skill", whatever that skill is. Maybe balanced group equals to gank group to you, for me balanced group is just common sense and same goes for getting ToAed. I see whining because of not having MA-X more reasonable than whining enemy having the MA-X - enemy done their essential stuff and you didn't, expect to have hard time. Same does not work for RAs - you are RvRing = you are working on to get those RAs and will get them sooner or later. If there is something wrong with this sort of thinking someone should have said it earlier - I would be RvRing with lvl1 character without any equipment.

 

[Flimgoblin]

Essential to fight any enemy matching your "skill", whatever that skill is. Maybe balanced group equals to gank group to you, for me balanced group is just common sense and same goes for getting ToAed. I see whining because of not having MA-X more reasonable than whining enemy having the MA-X - enemy done their essential stuff and you didn't, expect to have hard time. Same does not work for RAs - you are RvRing = you are working on to get those RAs and will get them sooner or later. If there is something wrong with this sort of thinking someone should have said it earlier - I would be RvRing with lvl1 character without any equipment.

Maybe a better word would be "even", or "on an equal footing" rather than "essential"?

Since I don't consider having to be on an equal footing essential

my definition of gank group = group of 8 characters set up in a way to make them as powerful as possible, rather than put together out of what's available (a PuG or a random group, or possibly a guild group that's not spoiled for choice or crafted for that purpose). Someone once referred to them as GATTACA gank groups - I like that phrase. Genetically engineered. You start off with a plan of what you want and put it together.

To make a gank group these days you want a particular set of classes all of a good ML level (depending on the class - ML10 really isn't needed for your perfecters for example but hey might as well get them all ML10). If by having to do ToA to make a "perfect" group you mean it's essential - then fair point, but even then that "perfect" group won't be perfect till everyone has all their RAs at RR12 but I can see you prioritise getting everything else ready before going for the RPs (since you need to fight against other people for RPs, might as well maximise everything else first).

On the RvR front - just because I disagree with you on the impact of certain MLs on the fights _I_ get involved in doesn't mean I "don't know anything about RvR".

In my perception fully opted gank groups chop my little solo/duo/guild group/whatever self into little bits because they've got the right classes and are high RR. Sure they have brittle guards and bodyguards and grapplers but even without those it would still have been a slaughter - hence my perception of the "neccessity" of the ToA stuff is entirely different from someone starting from the point of view of "what goes into a perfect group".

Personally I'll get my MLs when I feel like running the raid, I'll get my RPs as they come in when I feel like RvRing. I'll make a group out of whatever's kicking around and I'll try and have fun and avoid the GATTACA squads.