Whine thread

[Ballard]

You are joking right? I give you 2 dmg dealers of that one. When both your clerics start smiting (either base or spec - which is all still no good dmg) your group dies and where does that leave you? If you run with 2 clerics most of the time 1 is going to be a shearer + back up healer to the first cleric who is rejuv spec = 2 clerics don't deal any damage at all!

haha dont feed him! I dont think anyone pays him attention Apparently I also spend my fights doing damage by spamming a level 20 dot untill it sticks and does 30 damage a tick But thats after I respec convoker and use ml9 on my grey con pet to fuck up the enemy ofc... And weve all seen those pesky bards running around using their level 6 anytime to kill!

 

[Calo]

You are joking right? I give you 2 dmg dealers of that one. When both your clerics start smiting (either base or spec - which is all still no good dmg) your group dies and where does that leave you? If you run with 2 clerics most of the time 1 is going to be a shearer + back up healer to the first cleric who is rejuv spec = 2 clerics don't deal any damage at all!

I don't know why he wants to say it like that but if u take cleric,cleric,sorc,friar vs healer healer healer shaman then well.. its pretty obviously that those 4 albs have more damage then the 4 mids no? You agree on that or you think a aug healer can kill a sorc?

dunno what it has to do with fg vs fg but in "his reasoning" he's right actually...

 

[Ashala]

I don't know why he wants to say it like that but if u take cleric,cleric,sorc,friar vs healer healer healer shaman then well.. its pretty obviously that those 4 albs have more damage then the 4 mids no? You agree on that or you think a aug healer can kill a sorc?

dunno what it has to do with fg vs fg but in "his reasoning" he's right actually...

healer healer healer shaman is still way better then cleric cleric friar sorc, when we are talking setup in a 8 player grp

 

[Dorin]

The theurg spec nuke is 209 dmg 2.8sec delve nuke excatly the same as what a light eld uses , I suggest you watch one of dallas's theurg POV videos and see how much dmg he is doing using the spec nuke.

dallas used baseline ice dd as he was earth/ice spec if you are talking about the lamorak movie (atleast the one i saw)

 

[Akyma]

You are joking right? I give you 2 dmg dealers of that one. When both your clerics start smiting (either base or spec - which is all still no good dmg) your group dies and where does that leave you? If you run with 2 clerics most of the time 1 is going to be a shearer + back up healer to the first cleric who is rejuv spec = 2 clerics don't deal any damage at all!

well, atleast they have the chance do dds, i dont say they hit 900 like main casters (now ;p) but they hit 200-300 if they want use his DDs, givf LT for healers at pac spec like u mezzer

 

[Akyma]

Only you would enter a debate on who has the easier time of it in fg rvr by using 4 spots as your argument. Heck, why not use 2 or 5 spots? The debate is about full groups for a reason...


I'd say alb and hib groups are about even (given same rr etc.). Mid groups are the easy mode, especially at high rr.

that is the base group, u can drop some if u want, but ressist, speed, CC and heals is basic things for rvr FG Vs FG, zerg Vs zerg or whatever u want do.
Atm Hibs have best set up to make group, then Albs and Mids on last

 

[Corran]

that is the base group, u can drop some if u want, but ressist, speed, CC and heals is basic things for rvr FG Vs FG, zerg Vs zerg or whatever u want do.
Atm Hibs have best set up to make group, then Albs and Mids on last

albs may have decent base... but overal they are weaker. Looking at half a group is pointless... Take out the "base" classes and stick in the filler classes and compare the DPS/Utility and mid/hib are way ahead.. especially with buggy abilities like BD debuff and chanter DPS debuff interupting

 

[Akyma]

albs may have decent base... but overal they are weaker. Looking at half a group is pointless... Take out the "base" classes and stick in the filler classes and compare the DPS/Utility and mid/hib are way ahead.. especially with buggy abilities like BD debuff and chanter DPS debuff interupting

albs have DPS debuff and AE, so dont say nothing.
U telling me that 2 zerk r better that 2 merc or 2 BM? again hibs ahead with BM, then merc then zerk,
u want more dmg? sorc/caby? 2 LT nukers, red buff, NS, pet recicle (where hibs and mids can do it) det chant? bolt range mezz? 2 ML9 pets? chain pet stun?... u dont like that combo? ok, get a therg, pet spamer, chain stun pets? pbt? strong nukes?
U have wizzs, wizzs dont do dmg? Aurores insta kill very nice
u dont like mages? take 3 merc and 1 pole like old times, dont is it nice dmg?

 

[eggy]

albs have DPS debuff and AE, so dont say nothing.
U telling me that 2 zerk r better that 2 merc or 2 BM? again hibs ahead with BM, then merc then zerk,
u want more dmg? sorc/caby? 2 LT nukers, red buff, NS, pet recicle (where hibs and mids can do it) det chant? bolt range mezz? 2 ML9 pets? chain pet stun?... u dont like that combo? ok, get a therg, pet spamer, chain stun pets? pbt? strong nukes?
U have wizzs, wizzs dont do dmg? Aurores insta kill very nice
u dont like mages? take 3 merc and 1 pole like old times, dont is it nice dmg?

You're not seeing the big picture here.

Two lifetap nukers with NS. That means the Cabalist is matter spec (unless you want low level gimp NS). Matter spec cabbies don't lifetap very hard and have either low level or no debuff. If you are talking about blue con NS, then you're still not getting to use full Spirit debuff.

No we're not saying 2 x zerk are necessarily better than 2 x merc. However, you have celerity buffs already, 100% crit mode. So in terms of damage, yes you probably win. If you argue "we have worse armour"; true - but the 3 healer 1 shaman thing gives you the heals to compensate.

Det chant - to use this, you need another speed class in the group. If you have a theurg, that will likely be playing PBT, although this is arguable.

Bolt range mez - I'd swap my bolt range for 1500 range insta mez. Agromon = hills = insta >> bolt range often.

2 x ML9 pets. True, but so can mid/hib groups easily, and SM's ones intercept 90%+

Theurg - PBT discussed above. Chain stun air pets - means you're getting lower PBT as you're speccing in air now.

Wiz - 1 banelord and theyre fucked. No defense, no I win abilities. Can't debuff their damage unless the sorc is body spec, in which case you lose det chant, POM4 and your mez radius and duration are gimped, completely.

"Take 3 merc 1 pole" - Merc Merc Merc Arms Cleric Cleric Sorc <Theurg? Friar? Reaver? Cabby?> an enemy group with a decent BG or two and you're fucked.

If that <space> was a cabalist; not a bad setup...but no elemental resists, no PBT, no end chant, no TWF, no ST etc. Even with the heat resist alone hibs have +24% more damage on us

 

[Mastade]

lol, never heard so much crap from one warlock in so few sentences

 

[Aadia]

lol, never heard so much crap from one warlock in so few sentences

I guess that's why he went WL in first place... you can't go any easier/lower then that

 

[noaim]

You're not seeing the big picture here.

Two lifetap nukers with NS. That means the Cabalist is matter spec (unless you want low level gimp NS). Matter spec cabbies don't lifetap very hard and have either low level or no debuff. If you are talking about blue con NS, then you're still not getting to use full Spirit debuff.

No we're not saying 2 x zerk are necessarily better than 2 x merc. However, you have celerity buffs already, 100% crit mode. So in terms of damage, yes you probably win. If you argue "we have worse armour"; true - but the 3 healer 1 shaman thing gives you the heals to compensate.

Det chant - to use this, you need another speed class in the group. If you have a theurg, that will likely be playing PBT, although this is arguable.

Bolt range mez - I'd swap my bolt range for 1500 range insta mez. Agromon = hills = insta >> bolt range often.

2 x ML9 pets. True, but so can mid/hib groups easily, and SM's ones intercept 90%+

Theurg - PBT discussed above. Chain stun air pets - means you're getting lower PBT as you're speccing in air now.

Wiz - 1 banelord and theyre fucked. No defense, no I win abilities. Can't debuff their damage unless the sorc is body spec, in which case you lose det chant, POM4 and your mez radius and duration are gimped, completely.

"Take 3 merc 1 pole" - Merc Merc Merc Arms Cleric Cleric Sorc <Theurg? Friar? Reaver? Cabby?> an enemy group with a decent BG or two and you're fucked.

If that <space> was a cabalist; not a bad setup...but no elemental resists, no PBT, no end chant, no TWF, no ST etc. Even with the heat resist alone hibs have +24% more damage on us

Because if the ns aint red its shit (2300 range fast cast interrupt that does decrease the range of enemy casters is gimped if it decrease the range by less than 65%, lol), pbt is very important, and you must have wizard in grp since you dont have any other good casters!

Tell me now, Sorc, Cabby/Sorc, Merc, Merc/Reaver, Cleric, Cleric, Friar, Paladin. What utility are you lacking there, that you find in every hib/mid grp?

 

[Akyma]

You're not seeing the big picture here.

Two lifetap nukers with NS. That means the Cabalist is matter spec (unless you want low level gimp NS). Matter spec cabbies don't lifetap very hard and have either low level or no debuff. If you are talking about blue con NS, then you're still not getting to use full Spirit debuff.

No we're not saying 2 x zerk are necessarily better than 2 x merc. However, you have celerity buffs already, 100% crit mode. So in terms of damage, yes you probably win. If you argue "we have worse armour"; true - but the 3 healer 1 shaman thing gives you the heals to compensate.

Det chant - to use this, you need another speed class in the group. If you have a theurg, that will likely be playing PBT, although this is arguable.

Bolt range mez - I'd swap my bolt range for 1500 range insta mez. Agromon = hills = insta >> bolt range often.

2 x ML9 pets. True, but so can mid/hib groups easily, and SM's ones intercept 90%+

Theurg - PBT discussed above. Chain stun air pets - means you're getting lower PBT as you're speccing in air now.

Wiz - 1 banelord and theyre fucked. No defense, no I win abilities. Can't debuff their damage unless the sorc is body spec, in which case you lose det chant, POM4 and your mez radius and duration are gimped, completely.

"Take 3 merc 1 pole" - Merc Merc Merc Arms Cleric Cleric Sorc <Theurg? Friar? Reaver? Cabby?> an enemy group with a decent BG or two and you're fucked.

If that <space> was a cabalist; not a bad setup...but no elemental resists, no PBT, no end chant, no TWF, no ST etc. Even with the heat resist alone hibs have +24% more damage on us

well, i dont sayed caby run with red NS, blue NS is the one caby i meet have, and yelow-red debuff, but i dont know munch about sorc specs.

zerk mode is 100% crits, but that dont mean u dont do 15 crit dmg. Anything tha all tanks can get with MoP4. Zerk lost all his defense when they do zerk mode, anything useles VS merc DT or BM TW.

Banelords dont only fuck wizz m8, fuck all mage for all realms. When i played at alb, my wizz have debuff nuke and AE debuff nuke, they lost it?:touch:

If want pbt and det chant, u only need add a mincer or other sorc.

and if u read post, i say basic set up is with 2 cleric sorc and friar. U have elemental ressist.

if 2 cleric sorc friar 3 merc and pole get pwned by a BG, that mean u have usseles players in group, 3 BLs and sorc/merc/merc/merc/pole assist can insta kill a BG and interrupt BGed target very easy. and before u say anything, if u want end reg, drop a merc and get a pala to lost little dmg or change friar for pla,a and lost ressist, that is up 2 u.
U sure u want chnge bolt range for a crap dur insta each 10 mins? range > all

 

[eggy]

Tell me now, Sorc, Cabby/Sorc, Merc, Merc/Reaver, Cleric, Cleric, Friar, Paladin. What utility are you lacking there, that you find in every hib/mid grp?

Depends if you're going for the 2nd merc, or reaver. Let's for now say Cabby and Reaver:

Sorc Cabby, Merc, Reaver, Cleric, Cleric, Friar, Paladin...what are we missing?

*To keep the 1000 range end chant to the merc, the paladin needs to play quite aggressively. This only makes him "half" a BGer.
*Only have 1 charge tank in group; reaver will be rooted/stuck/mezzed and won't keep up with assist. 1 Merc is a waste of time.
*You have TWF on the offensive, but unlike the Warden class you don't have TWF as a deterrent for attackers on friendly support.
*Don't have any haste in group, pots/charges only.
*Don't have any celerity buffs.
*You don’t have speed5 either (which every hib group gets).
*No PBT
*No Earth Buff
*No BAOD
*No SOS
*Of course you can sheer, but sadly the sheerer is also the main healer.
*Maximum of 2 x bof per group, usually 1 or less
*Maximum of 2 x DI per group
*There’s no FZ or phase shift for the main healers either unfortunately.
*We don’t unfortunately have any casted stun apart from on the main healers, and of course all mez has a cast time, so line of sight/hills cause problems there.
*Two banelords in the group instead of three means of course less banespikes and interrupts.
*Sadly the cabalist doesn’t get a RR5 shape change.
*The group has nearsight (in a poor specline), so it’s usually blue con at the most, unlike the eldritch red-con.
*If the cabalist does spec in nearsight, damage decreases due to less spec in Spirit.
*Clerics get tank-stat versions of Scalars, so usually no shape change for them

 

[eggy]

well, i dont sayed caby run with red NS, blue NS is the one caby i meet have, and yelow-red debuff, but i dont know munch about sorc specs.

Blue NS maximum yes, unless you spec matter. That's not comparable to the red NS all eld's and most RM's get.

zerk mode is 100% crits, but that dont mean u dont do 15 crit dmg.

That's not the point, we don't have access to that. MOP4 is not 100% crits, a long way off.

Banelords dont only fuck wizz m8, fuck all mage for all realms. When i played at alb, my wizz have debuff nuke and AE debuff nuke, they lost it?:touch:

They have it on AE that's for sure, and that's 15%, but poor damage compared to spec nukes.

If want pbt and det chant, u only need add a mincer or other sorc.

And what is replaced? That's the point/problem.

if u want end reg, drop a merc and get a pala to lost little dmg or change friar for pla,a and lost ressist, that is up 2 u.

Exactly, a lot of comprimise in Alb setups. You can have things but you have to lose something equally as vital. Hence my entire point. End chant is 1000 range, so if you use a paladin he can't properly BG protect the casters.

 

[Akyma]

I guess that's why he went WL in first place... you can't go any easier/lower then that

ye u can, play a banshee and whine about WLs

 

[noaim]

Depends if you're going for the 2nd merc, or reaver. Let's for now say Cabby and Reaver:

Sorc Cabby, Merc, Reaver, Cleric, Cleric, Friar, Paladin...what are we missing?

*To keep the 1000 range end chant to the merc, the paladin needs to play quite aggressively. This only makes him "half" a BGer.
*Only have 1 charge tank in group; reaver will be rooted/stuck/mezzed and won't keep up with assist. 1 Merc is a waste of time.
*You have TWF on the offensive, but unlike the Warden class you don't have TWF as a deterrent for attackers on friendly support.
*Don't have any haste in group, pots/charges only.
*Don't have any celerity buffs.
*You don’t have speed5 either (which every hib group gets).
*No PBT
*No Earth Buff
*No BAOD
*Of course you can sheer, but sadly the sheerer is also the main healer.
*Maximum of 2 x bof per group, usually 1 or less
*Maximum of 2 x DI per group
*There’s no FZ or phase shift for the main healers either unfortunately.
*We don’t unfortunately have any casted stun apart from on the main healers, and of course all mez has a cast time, so line of sight/hills cause problems there.
*Two banelords in the group instead of three means of course less banespikes and interrupts.
*Sadly the cabalist doesn’t get a RR5 shape change.
*The group has nearsight (in a poor specline), so it’s usually blue con at the most, unlike the eldritch red-con.
*If the cabalist does spec in nearsight, damage decreases due to less spec in Spirit.
*Clerics get tank-stat versions of Scalars, so usually no shape change for them

I asked what is lacks, not what it has the same of. Mids/hibs have 2x DI, 2x BoF, cabby has baod, 2 banelords, most mid/hibgrps run with 1 chargetank aswell, pbt wont make a difference, pally can be a bit offensive since you have 2 bg´ers and then he can twist damage add too if you find that it will make the difference between winning and losing, green/blue ns is good enough, scalars is same for cleric/druic/healer.

So basicly what you lack is pbt and haste and PS on healer, but you get lifetap on both casters instead of 1/0, 1 extra bg´er, perma pbae-interrupts from reaver, 2 pretty short timed instas from reaver, 1 extra interrupt from merc (DT).

Wow I can really see what the big fuss is about, how will you ever be able to compete?

 

[eggy]

Mids/hibs have 2x DI, 2x BoF

Most clerics dont have both sadly, we only have 2 chars in group to get all that stuff, not 3 as Mid often does

cabby has baod

Nope, only theurgist - don't believe RA calc, it's wrong.

2 banelords, most mid/hibgrps run with 1 chargetank aswell

Haven't seen an enemy grp without 2xBM or 2xzerk for ages Oo

pbt wont make a difference

Urm, obviously it will, hence the point of the ability.

pally can be a bit offensive since you have 2 bg´ers and then he can twist damage add too

DPS is far lower than EB.

if you find that it will make the difference between winning and losing, green/blue ns is good enough

In Agromon particularly when you get instad over a hill ridge, the purp NS is so much better. Plus, if we want a Warlord we only have 1 perfecter for cure NS :/

scalars is same for cleric/druic/healer.

Wrong, it is tank stats for clerics.

 

[eggy]

Albs can compete, I'm not saying they can't.

What I am saying is, having more classes than other realms, and abilities split widely, means you cannot fit all the utility in an Alb group that you get "baseline" in an enemy group.

Hence, set groups (who almost always play in mid or hib), will rip to shreds 70% of Alb groups, even if "opted".

 

[noaim]

I was asking what it lacks compared to mid/hib grp.

Healers/Druids also get tank-scalars.

No mid/hibgrps run with warlord.

Mids/hibs dont run with 10dps damageadd, the pally one should be even to what mids/hibs have.

2 druids in hibsgrps, 2 healers in midgrps.

Pbt wont change the outcome of a fight more than maybe 1/100, if even that, and its not like mids run with it either.

You use NS mainly for interrupts since its usually cured within 5-10 secs.

I checked Camelotherald to see if cabby get baod, not any ra calculator, but it might be wrong there aswell.

Mids/Hibs can run 2 chargetanks, but then they dont get twf+st either, unless they drop a caster, so its a choice, no unique penalty to Albion there either.

 

[Akyma]

Most clerics dont have both sadly, we only have 2 chars in group to get all that stuff, not 3 as Mid often does



Nope, only theurgist - don't believe RA calc, it's wrong.



Haven't seen an enemy grp without 2xBM or 2xzerk for ages Oo



Urm, obviously it will, hence the point of the ability.



DPS is far lower than EB.



In Agromon particularly when you get instad over a hill ridge, the purp NS is so much better. Plus, if we want a Warlord we only have 1 perfecter for cure NS :/



Wrong, it is tank stats for clerics.

think u need more quote skills, since i dont sayed any of that ;p noaim was.
but well, how u say it look all healer gets DI 3 BoF 3 wen they ding lvl 50
I think it cost same for all realms.
BoF > BAOF

 

[Ballard]

Wrong, it is tank stats for clerics.

No you are wrong... it IS tank stats for druids and healers as well...

 

[Bracken]

that is the base group, u can drop some if u want, but ressist, speed, CC and heals is basic things for rvr FG Vs FG, zerg Vs zerg or whatever u want do.
Atm Hibs have best set up to make group, then Albs and Mids on last

FG is made up of 8 people. Taking a group of 4 and using that as a basis for a debate about full groups is frankly f*cking hilarious.

Only the most myopic of mids would claim they don't have an inherent advantage in fg fights. That doesn't mean albs and hibs can't compete, but all things being equal the mid group should come out on top. Then again, may aswell piss into the wind as try and get the average mid to acknowledge that.

 

[Amaru-Synergy]

Sorc Cabby, Merc, Reaver, Cleric, Cleric, Friar, Paladin...what are we missing?

Me you slut

 

[noaim]

FG is made up of 8 people. Taking a group of 4 and using that as a basis for a debate about full groups is frankly f*cking hilarious.

Only the most myopic of mids would claim they don't have an inherent advantage in fg fights. That doesn't mean albs and hibs can't compete, but all things being equal the mid group should come out on top. Then again, may aswell piss into the wind as try and get the average mid to acknowledge that.

Because running armsman in a zerg has given you such huge experience on the subject that you should ofc know better than anyone else?

What albs need is something on cleric to help them deal with pets, and a nerf on bd body-debuff at least, maybe lifetap too. Other than that it is very close to balanced, imo.

 

[Ballard]

Clerics are much better shearers than druids tho, dont give them anything more

 

[Calo]

FG is made up of 8 people. Taking a group of 4 and using that as a basis for a debate about full groups is frankly f*cking hilarious.

Only the most myopic of mids would claim they don't have an inherent advantage in fg fights. That doesn't mean albs and hibs can't compete, but all things being equal the mid group should come out on top. Then again, may aswell piss into the wind as try and get the average mid to acknowledge that.

yea sure, if a mid groups takes the perfect groups perhaps, but what if you have a skald friend and you group with him.. Suddenly you are not the perfect groups anymore so where is our advantage then? there are perhaps what, 2groups that run the perfect mid group? and not even then its always the same people.

plz give credit to the mid players that play good.

 

[Bracken]

Because running armsman in a zerg has given you such huge experience on the subject that you should ofc know better than anyone else?.

Is that the best you can do? Losing your touch bud. :touch:

What albs need is something on cleric to help them deal with pets, and a nerf on bd body-debuff at least, maybe lifetap too. Other than that it is very close to balanced, imo.

End buff on sorcs, fz available to clerics and some insta aoe stun and we'd be getting somewhere. But we don't have any of those. So yeah, other than that it's very close to balanced. Starting to sound like "What did the Roman's ever do for us?" ain't it

 

[noaim]

End buff on sorcs, fz available to clerics and some insta aoe stun and we'd be getting somewhere. But we don't have any of those. So yeah, other than that it's very close to balanced. Starting to sound like "What did the Roman's ever do for us?" ain't it

What is it that makes you think ae stun is so good? Every banelord just wants to be stunned, and insta root would help clerics a whole bunch more than insta stun would.

Also, is sorc close enough to tanks to provide end if paladin is not?

 

[Kanim]

End buff on sorcs

lol