What time is it? Muslim time!

[throdgrain]

Its only considered racism because it tends to be one particular ethnic group in this country that make up the bulk of the Muslim population. If you don't agree or are frankly disgusted by aspects of a religions doctrine that followers run their laws, customs and lifestyle by I would surmount that it be perfectly acceptable to criticise it.

Every once in a while you get the report of Sikhs, Hindus, Jews, Christians erm Jedi's making a fuss over one thing or another, and out of them the only terrorists with a religious affiliation who have blown something up has been Christians blowing up other Christians with the IRA, and even then the link was tentative and not the main issue in the campaign.

But with Islam who are the largest minority religion in the UK and many other EU states it also happens to be the religion that time and again has shown itself to be incapable and unwilling to integrate or in a reverse of roles understand that they have to be tolerant of western society. But its not just western society it has trouble with, it seems to be in conflict with every society, religion and country in the world that it is present and itself. The only countries where it seems to be relatively peaceful are country's where the population is homogeneous, the religion type is homogeneous and there's a non democratic regime in charge that uses force, strict laws and police state tactics to control how the people live, women have no rights, beheading and limb loss is a common punishment and there are no freedoms. Even then the country has the odd bombing or is a terrorist training ground.

We should be tolerant why exactly?

Well said.

 

[Tom]

I'm pretty sure the human brain is hardwired for racism/cliques.

It makes evolutionary sense to favour those in your community (most probably genetically related) and regard those outside it with hostility.

No it doesn't actually, it makes no evolutionary sense whatsoever to restrict the gene pool from which one procreates.

 

[rynnor]

No it doesn't actually, it makes no evolutionary sense whatsoever to restrict the gene pool from which one procreates.

Have you never been to Norfolk then?

More seriously tho - recently geneticists have spotted that people who marry distant relatives have more kids and are thought to be more genetically compatible so it seems vague inbreeding is not actually harmfull.

 

[Dukat]

No it doesn't actually, it makes no evolutionary sense whatsoever to restrict the gene pool from which one procreates.

You're right there, but I think he's talking more about safety wise?

There's a famous arab saying I believe - "Me and my brother against my cousin, me and my cousin against the world"

Its like you have circles, the first one being you, the second your family, the third being friends, the fourth being countrymen. Maybe not as clear cut as that but you see what I mean?

The way our minds work is that we regard people relatively and form groups around that relativity - you go to a football game and you tend 'group' with the people you have most in common with, same with an international business meeting, you find people you know, or failing that someone from the same company, failing that someone from the same country.

Once you're in those groups you regard people 'outside' of the group as just that, 'outsiders', to a lesser or greater extent. I think this is something that is ingrained in us because of the safety issue - better the devil you know, etc.

Its like two lions, on thier own they might fight over territorial disputes, but when faced with a pack of hyenas they'll stay close together for mutual protection.

While I hate "true racism" in its extreme forms (eg. hitler) and could never accept it, I think I agree with what rynnor's saying about demonising it less.

Persecuting someone for the colour of thier skin is, imo, exactly the same as persecuting them for the colour of thier hair, yet poking fun at gingers is something that is widely accepted as fine, I myself have done it on this forum, yet had I made a similar joke about someone's skin colour I'd have almost certainly have been banned, no questions asked. While I can understand it, there is a stigma attached to this that is slightly disproportionate sometimes I think.

 

[Dukat]

Have you never been to Norfolk then?

Hoi! Come back here you! I'll run you over with my john deere!!

Where's my bloody pitch fork gone?!

 

[Mabs]

just saw this, thought id share

pic link

 

[Chronictank]

just saw this, thought id share

pic link

Theres only one person to choose from though
what a stupid ad

 

[Chronictank]

But with Islam who are the largest minority religion in the UK and many other EU states it also happens to be the religion that time and again has shown itself to be incapable and unwilling to integrate or in a reverse of roles understand that they have to be tolerant of western society.

Yet it already has, and this has been the case since the 60's in the UK when they needed immigration to stop their economy of going tits up
I would like you to provide examples to back up your argument where the majority of british muslims are unable to integrate in into UK society at large

But its not just western society it has trouble with, it seems to be in conflict with every society, religion and country in the world that it is present and itself. The only countries where it seems to be relatively peaceful are country's where the population is homogeneous, the religion type is homogeneous and there's a non democratic regime in charge that uses force, strict laws and police state tactics to control how the people live, women have no rights, beheading and limb loss is a common punishment and there are no freedoms. Even then the country has the odd bombing or is a terrorist training ground.

Almost every muslim/arab nation that has established itself is becoming westernised

So Pakistan falls into this category?, maybe Turkey?, India perhaps?
Noticing a trend yet?, the countries with a stable economy and a solid government are all the ones with less extremism (relatively speaking)
It has always been the case that desperate people resort to desperate measures, and thus make the idea training grounds for extremism

You are more free in those states than you are in the UK in some respects

Edited

 

[Chronictank]

People here also seem to be unable to disern religion from culture,
Sharia law is not based exclusively on religion, it is a mix of cultural practices and loosely based on verses from the qu'ran

I suggest reading this thread in its entirety
https://forums.freddyshouse.com/off-topic21/227162-couldn-t-have-said-better-myself.html

 

[Mabs]

Almost every muslim/arab nation that has BEEN ESTABLISHED BY A COLONIAL WESTERN POWER LEAVING is becoming westernised

So Pakistan falls into this category?,( maybe Turkey?), India perhaps?
Noticing a trend yet?,

edited for truth...

 

[Chronictank]

edited for truth...

almost all of the middle east and asia goes under that label...
including the ones raped for their rescources and left to rot

More accurate would be established as part of the Achaemenid Persian empire and later Alexander the Great
They were doing fine before the British arrived (if not better, the region used to be the centre of learning in the world, let alone asia),
so on what basis do you say they wouldnt be fine without foreign influence?

 

[Mabs]

almost all of the middle east and asia goes under that label...
including the ones raped for their rescources and left to rot

More accurate would be established as part of the Achaemenid Persian empire and later Alexander the Great
They were doing fine before the British arrived (if not better, the region used to be the centre of learning in the world, let alone asia),
so on what basis do you say they wouldnt be fine afterwards without foreign influence?

stop
putting
words
in
my
mouth


so on what basis do you say they wouldnt be fine afterwards without foreign influence?

i was pointing out that there is little to no surpise that a country that was under WESTERN RULE for the last 100-150+ years , is "westernised". its not rocket science

/edit
but if were splitting hairs on examples
BRITISH india , when it went "free" split itself into INDIA and PAKISTAN over..wait for it, its a corker.. RELIGION

who didnt see that one coming ?

 

[Chronictank]

s
i was pointing out that there is little to no surpise that a country that was under WESTERN RULE for the last 100-150+ years , is "westernised". its not rocket science

Why post your edit at all then? its meaningless as they were all under the same umbrella unless you were implying said examples were better off because of it. Which i simply pointed out may not be the case

/edit
but if were splitting hairs on examples
BRITISH india , when it went "free" split itself into INDIA and PAKISTAN over..wait for it, its a corker.. RELIGION

who didnt see that one coming ?

Irrelevant, again....

I honestly struggle to answer your posts, you post things that are nothing to do with furthering the point in hand then get offended when i read too much into it and address them :S

 

[Furr]

Stuff

I'm not going to try and play the "facts and figures" game with you, if you want them do it yourself.

How have I formed my view of Islam? My view is based on a lifetime of knowledge, from stories and information from family and friends and also the experience from my own interactions with Muslims, who seem at ease and let their guard down with me to say what they really think. You'll find out why in a second.

I'm not going to justify what I said before as I'd just be repeating myself. But that's what I see.
Oh and by the way I'm half Asian and half English, I've been to India, quite a few times actually, Dubai, Israel etc.. I have family a friends in these mentioned countries. Get a constant stream of information. So I know one thing I haven't based this view on race as being racist to myself would be a bit silly.

And stop using the idea of guilt, and peddling the lies to try and say I'm wrong. They won't work on me "fella".

 

[Chronictank]

I'm not going to try and play the "facts and figures" game with you, if you want them do it yourself.

How have I formed my view of Islam? My view is based on a lifetime of knowledge, from stories and information from family and friends and also the experience from my own interactions with Muslims, who seem at ease and let their guard down with me to say what they really think. You'll find out why in a second.

I'm not going to justify what I said before as I'd just be repeating myself. But that's what I see.
Oh and by the way I'm half Asian and half English, I've been to India, quite a few times actually, Dubai, Israel etc.. I have family a friends in these mentioned countries. Get a constant stream of information. So I know one thing I haven't based this view on race as being racist to myself would be a bit silly.

And stop using the idea of guilt, and peddling the lies to try and say I'm wrong. They won't work on me "fella".

Sorry but from my personal experience i cant agree with you and am pretty much in the same boat as you, born and bred british parents from pakistan and india

But fact dont lie,
Your first point is plain wrong because muslims HAVE integrated themselves into western society, they have done since the 60's so your point is mute as it shows it is possible and it has and is happening. So it is prerfectly possible for this to occur, whether certain factions of people are unable to is an entirely different matter

Your second point is also wrong because the places i mention do have a democratic government and are not run under a iron fist the rescent demonstrations etc proove that people are able to voice their opinions, and their government is elected by its populous, so again, facts dont lie
Whether you agree with the way things are run and current events it also an different matter, but there is a democracy and the government is elected by the people

Your 3rd point as to Islam being the reason people arent able to integrate, is just plain wrong. As i pointed out in my second post because of the edit timer there is a significant difference between religion and culture, you can argue that the culture is unwilling to integrate.
But saying Islam is the reasoning is plain incorrect, which is why i gave you a link to another post where this has been discussed in depth elsewhere on the forum

If your point is that some societies are unable to integrate, that is a perfectly valid opinion
But saying people who follow islam are unable to is just crap

Concerning your remarks on racism, keep them to yourself i havent even incinuated anything to the effect
If you are unable/unwilling to discuss this fine, but don't accuse me of "lying" when all i have done is posted a logical argument against your opinion

 

[Mabs]

Your 3rd point as to Islam being the reason people arent able to integrate, is just plain wrong.

Irrelevant, again....

BRITISH india , when it went "free" split itself into INDIA and PAKISTAN over..wait for it, its a corker.. RELIGION

. . .

 

[Chronictank]

. . .

at least quote me in context

But with Islam who are the largest minority religion in the UK and many other EU states it also happens to be the religion that time and again has shown itself to be incapable and unwilling to integrate or in a reverse of roles understand that they have to be tolerant of western society.

Yet it already has, and this has been the case since the 60's in the UK when they needed immigration to stop their economy of going tits up
I would like you to provide examples to back up your argument where the majority of british muslims are unable to integrate in into UK society at large

 

[Mabs]

at least quote me in context

i did, go reread your post then

 

[Chronictank]

i did, go reread your post then

You are saying Islam in general is unable to integrate, based on the quote of me before you get pedantic

I have already prooved you wrong by stating that they already have in the UK

This beside the point
You do realise there are other religions in Pakistan right?, and you do realise there are muslims in India
Also ignoring the fact they are on reasonable relations nowdays, transport and trade links were resumed between the 2 countries for years now

From CIA factbook
India
Religions:
Definition Field Listing
Hindu 80.5%, Muslim 13.4%, Christian 2.3%, Sikh 1.9%, other 1.8%, unspecified 0.1% (2001 census)

Pakistan
Religions:
Definition Field Listing
Muslim 97% (Sunni 77%, Shi'a 20%), other (includes Christian and Hindu) 3%

So if even 1% can integrate, it shows it is very possible, thus prooving you wrong in respect to india and pakistan

 

[Mabs]

You are saying Islam in general is unable to integrate, based on the quote of me before you get pedantic

I have already prooved you wrong by stating that they already have in the UK

hahahahahahaha

no
nice try tho
it may have come into this country, and pushed aside part of our national system, that however, is NOT "integration", its supplanting

This beside the point
You do realise there are other religions in Pakistan right?, and you do realise there are muslims in India
Also ignoring the fact they are on reasonable relations nowdays, transport and trade links were resumed between the 2 countries for years now

Irrelevant

 

[Chronictank]

hahahahahahaha

no
nice try tho
it may have come into this country, and pushed aside part of our national system, that however, is NOT "integration", its supplanting

how exactly is that irrelevant?
Your priniciple argument was they were unable get along (based on the climate in 1956 no less), and i have proved you wrong already

As for supplanting, i fail to see what you are refering to

Or did they stealth build mosques under the guise that they were houses.. rofl

 

[Mabs]

how exactly is that irrelevant?
Your priniciple argument was they were unable get along (based on the climate in 1956 no less), and i have proved you wrong already

As for supplanting, i fail to see what you are refering to

Or did they stealth build mosques under the guise that they were houses.. rofl

time is a factor in everything..
no you havent proved me wrong, your just spouting your usual bollocks

supplanting.. replace... move in and take over
learn what it means
look at the history of this country


OH LOL ROFLCAKES TEH FUNNEH.. wow you just lost automatically due to failing to actually prove a point, and also backing up what i said before which is your a cretin at heart. 'kthxbye'

 

[nath]

You are saying Islam in general is unable to integrate, based on the quote of me before you get pedantic

I have already prooved you wrong by stating that they already have in the UK

I had heard (from a Hindu mate, so perhaps a little biased) that the Muslim way of things was to keep to your own and NOT integrate when you move to a new country, kind of opposite to the Hindu way which is to integrate fully in to the society you're a part of.

No idea how accurate that is, but I've certainly gotten that impression from personal experiences. That said, personal experience is just that, and as such I try not to let it influence my general opinion of Muslims and Islam in general.

 

[Mabs]

I had heard (from a Hindu mate, so perhaps a little biased) that the Muslim way of things was to keep to your own and NOT integrate when you move to a new country, kind of opposite to the Hindu way which is to integrate fully in to the society you're a part of.

No idea how accurate that is, but I've certainly gotten that impression from personal experiences. That said, personal experience is just that, and as such I try not to let it influence my general opinion of Muslims and Islam in general.

that isnt specific to muslims, in many ways it self defence in large numbers in strange places, see "china town" and such places in large cities

 

[Dark Orb Choir]

A'isha, Mohammed's Nine-Year Old Wife


9 yr olds to be married off in new british muslim law shocker

 

[Chronictank]

I had heard (from a Hindu mate, so perhaps a little biased) that the Muslim way of things was to keep to your own and NOT integrate when you move to a new country, kind of opposite to the Hindu way which is to integrate fully in to the society you're a part of.

No idea how accurate that is, but I've certainly gotten that impression from personal experiences. That said, personal experience is just that, and as such I try not to let it influence my general opinion of Muslims and Islam in general.

I have yet to read in the qu'ran a passage which says you should explicitly ignore everyone else, thus it is a not a religious but a cultural and security thing
How do you overcome it? it's a little difficult for people who are set in their ways but mixed schools etc seemed a good way to start and have worked to an extent, but not entirely so i dont know

 

[Chronictank]

supplanting.. replace... move in and take over
learn what it means

Definitions of supplanting on the Web:

* act of taking the place of another especially using underhanded tactics
wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn

I fail to see how you can call working and living within the societies rules and regulations as taking over

I would have called it

Definitions of integration on the Web:

# the action of incorporating a racial or religious group into a community
# consolidation: the act of combining into an integral whole; "a consolidation of two corporations"; "after their consolidation the two bills were passed unanimously"; "the defendants asked for a consolidation of the actions against them"
wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn

Ah the insults start, was wondering when that would come out


Ow well argue amongst yourselfs,
i am off to do some work

 

[Mabs]

because islam is becoming little sectors of islamic glee within britain, they are not becoming part of britain, thats the difference

you think im wrong ? go count the number of burkas in london.
now count them 30 years ago
and 60 years ago

that isnt british, but apparently its acceptable, its diluting england for want of a better expression

they are not integrating INTO britain, they are integrating themselves next to it

 

[ECA]

Nothing a bottle of chloroform and 5 minutes wouldnt sort out.

 

[nath]

because islam is becoming little sectors of islamic glee within britain, they are not becoming part of britain, thats the difference

you think im wrong ? go count the number of burkas in london.
now count them 30 years ago
and 60 years ago

that isnt british, but apparently its acceptable, its diluting england for want of a better expression

they are not integrating INTO britain, they are integrating themselves next to it

Hold on a sec - much though I dislike the burka, people wearing isn't necessarily a sign of non-integration. Integrating with a society doesn't mean you have to give up your identity. Perhaps your issue is that you just don't like the burkas. Do you have the same problem with Indians wearing sari's?