what should mythic do to sort out gimp classes?

Hercules-DF

Fledgling Freddie
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Dec 22, 2003
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IMO i think the following needs to happen to the classes ive played a fiar bit

Paladin.
Up the dmg,
Sort out twisting 4 keys + running around + styles is too much hassle
some sort of morph for 50 chants, Archangel, or Destiny Knight a realm ability perhaps.
If Det is not totally removed from the game as i think it should be let pallys get it

Wizard.
Kill Earth spec
Put Aoe root and dot into ice
Put Earth Bolt into fire and aoe snare
Give both specs the high lvl gtaoe.
Perhaps put the Ice base DD into spec for slightly more dmg

This way the fire wiz becomes the DAMAGE MONSTER it should be. 3 bolts OH MY :)
and the ice wiz gets some util and a nice single dot to put on enemy pbaoers b4 getting to them

Top level gtaoe aint gonna make either spec uber so may as well chuck it in

Necros should be nerfed in PVE by making the mana drain 30 sec timer or something
 

Aussie

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they should give bard and healer qc , coz it's unfair sorcers have it
 

censi

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archers and assasins need to be made group viable.

at the moment both classes have been nerfed into submission.

Every class should give something highly desirable to an RVR group.

in reality about 50% of the classes are required or useful in RVR groups. The other 50% are less required. With archers and assasins the reality is they gimp the group.
 

Aeicaan

Fledgling Freddie
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yea, pala with end,heal,dmg add,af and determ! fotm for sure
 

Lejemorder

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Hercules-DF said:
Necros should be nerfed in PVE by making the mana drain 30 sec timer or something
then u have to giv something in RvR coz atm the only necro r good for r PvE!!

and bout pala, u can actully hit hard if u spec for it, but then u have to lower u shield or chant!!

archers and assasins need to be made group viable.

at the moment both classes have been nerfed into submission.

Every class should give something highly desirable to an RVR group.

in reality about 50% of the classes are required or useful in RVR groups. The other 50% are less required. With archers and assasins the reality is they gimp the group.
that simply not make sense for me? that u want is that assasins and archer giv some thing for a nomal gankgrp? or u want em more usefull in PvE??
 

Pitspawn

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Dont know how you missed the biggest downfall of paladins...their end chant range. Their damage is supposed to be bad tbh, if you want a good dmg char roll a merc.

Getting rid of earth on wizards would be a bad idea. Fixing it would be a good start ... Give earth wizards a base 179 nuke, and maybe GTAoE DOT =) Fire and ice could use a small alterations, and more general utility would be good.
 

[TB] Benedictine

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Give friars better HOT, stackable AF, chant resists, pets, bolts, PBAOE.....

erm got carried away there
 

Hercules-DF

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Pitspawn said:
Dont know how you missed the biggest downfall of paladins...their end chant range. Their damage is supposed to be bad tbh, if you want a good dmg char roll a merc.

Getting rid of earth on wizards would be a bad idea. Fixing it would be a good start ... Give earth wizards a base 179 nuke, and maybe GTAoE DOT =) Fire and ice could use a small alterations, and more general utility would be good.

yes making gtaoe a DOT would be sexually good :D i think it crossed my mind when specced in earth.
 

Tiki

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remove det from the savage and give it to the thane....Let dem hammers fly imo
 

Gorre

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pally gimp?
hrmm i really dont see why so many ppl think that
simply the best heavy tank in game
ok damage is low but if you wanted damage you should have rolled another char .
 

Kurik

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Tiki said:
remove det from the savage and give it to the thane....Let dem hammers fly imo
says the savage owner

/respect
 

Ocalinn

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Gorre said:
pally gimp?
hrmm i really dont see why so many ppl think that
simply the best heavy tank in game
ok damage is low but if you wanted damage you should have rolled another char .
paladins are not heavy tanks.. gimp.. they are hybrids and shouldnt get Det at all.. ok.. maybe if thanes and champs get Det paladins should get it
 

Trylle^nzi

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Give shadowblades DW mechanics. Thrust weapons. off-evade-stun, or reduce stun duration on dragonfang.
 

Generation

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Ocalinn said:
paladins are not heavy tanks.. gimp.. they are hybrids and shouldnt get Det at all.. ok.. maybe if thanes and champs get Det paladins should get it
Either lower the effects of det or give hybrid tanks the choice to get some level of it (det 2 or 3 for hybrids). Failing that, at least let pala chants work while CC'd, cos it's kinda taking the piss that albs end regen has a crappy range and can be CC'd for full duration.
 

Bracken

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Hercules-DF said:
Paladin.
Up the dmg,
Sort out twisting 4 keys + running around + styles is too much hassle
some sort of morph for 50 chants, Archangel, or Destiny Knight a realm ability perhaps.
If Det is not totally removed from the game as i think it should be let pallys get it
This would leave the armsmen with what role?


Just increase the range on end chant and either give them det or make it so that end chant continues through mezz - that would be plenty.
 

Ocalinn

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increase end chant range to the same range hib and mid have and end reg should work while mezzed. if u have it on when u got mezzed.
 

Shamyn

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Champions - give champions det, or a cheaper purge with a shorter timer. Prolly goes for thanes too.
 

Asha

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Ocalinn said:
paladins are not heavy tanks.. gimp.. they are hybrids and shouldnt get Det at all.. ok.. maybe if thanes and champs get Det paladins should get it
and reavers ^^
 

Yaemon

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Jan 21, 2004
Messages
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Hercules-DF said:
IMO i think the following needs to happen to the classes ive played a fiar bit

Paladin.
Up the dmg,
Sort out twisting 4 keys + running around + styles is too much hassle
some sort of morph for 50 chants, Archangel, or Destiny Knight a realm ability perhaps.
If Det is not totally removed from the game as i think it should be let pallys get it

Wizard.
Kill Earth spec
Put Aoe root and dot into ice
Put Earth Bolt into fire and aoe snare
Give both specs the high lvl gtaoe.
Perhaps put the Ice base DD into spec for slightly more dmg

This way the fire wiz becomes the DAMAGE MONSTER it should be. 3 bolts OH MY :)
and the ice wiz gets some util and a nice single dot to put on enemy pbaoers b4 getting to them

Top level gtaoe aint gonna make either spec uber so may as well chuck it in

Necros should be nerfed in PVE by making the mana drain 30 sec timer or something


Well for starters I think mythic should sort out the classes that are actually gimped. I get the feeling that they make minor changes to classes that don't really need it. This patch for example the Skald got more hps, better dds (damage/range etc). I cant really agree with you that the paladin is a gimped char compared to thanes,champs, wv's. Afaik the paladin has a role to fill in the fg which the thane,champ and wv dont atm.
 

Zoia

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Yaemon said:
Well for starters I think mythic should sort out the classes that are actually gimped. I get the feeling that they make minor changes to classes that don't really need it. This patch for example the Skald got more hps, better dds (damage/range etc). I cant really agree with you that the paladin is a gimped char compared to thanes,champs, wv's. Afaik the paladin has a role to fill in the fg which the thane,champ and wv dont atm.
Skalds did need a little help. They were given higher DDs to solve the issue with resists. The range is still the same.
The range on our damage add were increased from 700something to 1500, but people still want me to keep speed on.
Not sure why they gave us more hit points. Maybe a bad attempt of fixing our poor defence :p
At least i can take 1 or 2 more hits from a pally now :D
If they make skald resist chants into 2 sets of 3 and perhaps give us(and palladins :p ) a higher level of the damage add (9 dps maybe) skalds are good ;)

Oh, and nerf det. That's one of the biggest problems for hybrids that don't bring a needed ability to a group.
Like end for palladins and speed for skalds. At least we can get groups.
 

Yaemon

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My point was that skalds didnt need to be boosted as much as for example the thane. As a skald you you are still needed in groups (well exept for fotm ones with healer spd) and you have the tools to "solo".
 

noaim

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Hercules-DF said:
Wizard.
Kill Earth spec
Put Aoe root and dot into ice
Put Earth Bolt into fire and aoe snare
Give both specs the high lvl gtaoe.
Perhaps put the Ice base DD into spec for slightly more dmg
Yeah and for runemasters, remove darkness and supp and put it all into RC. :m00:
 

Hotrats

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Jan 22, 2004
Messages
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Im sure the RA review in frontiers will help balance a few of the hybrid classes (what will happen to det?!). Also although a paladin is not a heavy tank I think what gorre meant was its one of the hardest "heavy tanks (as in wears heavy armor)" to kill in the game.

As for wizards they are gonna need some super RA's to put them on par with other caster classes as the lack of utility from a wiz atm is huge.
I think earth wiz will always be the gtae/dot -> perfect for keep defence type char, fairly balanced in that respect.
Fire wiz imo needs a debuff nuke with say 10% less heat or something, ranged nuking is just pointless without debuffs these days. TOA will also bring faster cast speed and longer range which should help.
Ice wiz is the biggest problem; consider that pbae is actually defence not offence (only if enemy tanks are stupid (or slammed/debuffed) will they die from pbae) so to really win a fight as a pbae group you needs strong ranged damage to quickly kill support, combined with lots of things to interupt (pets, classes outside of pbae box) and finally lots of utility (debuffs, disease, pbt, resist buffs).
Combined with a body sorc an ice wiz is fairly viable, the util it lacks compared to an eld and chanter is made up by the sorc, but the main problem is the sorc has very little defence itself (similar to a void eld). To further add to the problem a mind sorc is required for cc, and although with 2 sorcies you have plenty of interupt and utility there is a vast lack in pbae compared to the number of cloth wearers.
The way to fix it is to give a wiz more utility so a body sorc is not required to acheive strong ranged damage. This could be done through RA's.

The reason why I prefer sorc/caba caster groups is not because the damage is any greater, or because the defence of the group is any higher (both of these are better in a ice wiz pbae group) but because of the huge utility of both a sorc and a cabalist, and that this group works much better with albs current set of RA's, a pbae group works better with hibs RA's. The RA change may well bring GP to alb which is a huge start in forming a strong pbae group, but it doesn't change the fact alb needs about 12 classes to get all the utility of a hib pbae group.

We shall see what happens but for me its fingers crossed wiz gets some drastic improvements so i can finish getting him to lvl 50 (currently lvl 44 :) ) and start using pbae in rvr (which looks so much fun :D ).
 

Lejemorder

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for friars,

let bof stack with friars self absorb.
let pala af chant stack or dont overrun the self af buff.
giv the dex instead of str at lvling (will only giv 15 more dex, but dont make sence they get a stat they cant use to a shit).
up WS a bit, coz we got very low ws even with high dex!!
giv something at 50 enha, coz it r stupid that we dont get anything at 50 enha.

cant think of more changes atm!!
 

liloe

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hmm...Hotrats, I can't agree with all your points. PBAE ca be used very well as an offensive weapon, as 3 pbae's will create HUGE dmg output in let's say 2 blasts. I've downloaded a TB video with body / mind sorc (last cold debuff) and it seems very viable to me.
The earth line from the wizzies looks like a mix of everything to me. DoT, GTAE, bolt... so nothing really determined. Mythic would call that high utility but well, helps nothing if the dmg output is bad in usual RvR.

and now to the original poster:
Paladin ideas:
if u find it too hard to play, go play another class. Do you think bard is easier with 2 main songs, 3xlull, ae mezz, instas, DD, demezz.... and swiching instruments?

wizzy ideas:
theurg has alrdy ae root in ice line
a 3rd bolt in fire would make that line slightly overpowered
the idea of a baseline nuke is, that every1 can get it, not that u need to spec for it and don't forget that specnukes r on another dmg table which would give ice wizzys high dmg pbae PLUS a high dmg single nuke, no class has that
GIVF GTAE to everyone :p no really, that would be senseless
 

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