What I've been saying all along...

[vestax]

Let me share my experiences..

I have been in a few guilds on different servers consisting of "casual" players, these were fun but the end game is RvR. If your in a "casual" guild its difficult to get a decent group. Your group will consist of a mixture of classes and maybe even some sub lvl 50's often without a healer. This is because your guild is not focused on RvR and has no organisation...

So you go to emain and get pwned by better and balanced groups... the question is.. what do you do?

You zerg! cos its the only way you will get any realm points.

But maybe you dont like zergs, maybe you want to join a guild of skilled players and good leadership. Maybe you apply to join.. maybe you get turned down.... then maybe you decide to call them "l33t wankers" for not accepting you.

This happens a lot, and i think its the main reason these "l33t" guilds get a bad name...

 

[Roo Stercogburn]

Very interesting article. Elements of truth but a bit exaggerated.

For RvR I like guild groups. I like casual groups. If I'm out of an average time I like 1FG fights, 2 max generally.

I enjoy the epic scale fights on those rare occasions we get them. Open field massive fights are absolutely the best thing you can get in DAoC bar none and even though it can be a slideshow at times the buzz from it is amazing, and its partly due to their rarity that makes them so special.

If I was going out for RvR with another guild that is RvR-based I'd probably arrange it in advance. In-Guild RvR is nearly always arranged in advance. Casual RvR is still fun, you get to meet new peeps and try different things. And yep I get frustrated at times like everyone else with it, but I like doing different things with different peeps.

Very rare for a casual group to beat a professional guild group but the thing that makes me laugh is why should someone who turns up at random maybe once a week think they really have a equal chance against skilled players that are out there every night? What they forget is they can still do well. Why moan about it? You can still do reasonably well. Food chain, pecking order, etc

The times I get frustrated is when people aren't paying attention to what is going on around them. People that stop to buff where they just fought make me want to cry. People that ask to join a group then after you are out the PK doors say they are just taking a lift to X should be shot. And of course people that you've grouped with who just bail on you to go with another group. The downsides of casual RvR. The upsides are that when you do get peeps that play well together you've usually just made some new friends and the more people you get to know the more chance you have of your next RvR group not being quite so random or bad.

Regarding not getting help for keep takes or raids, I generally find thats complete nonsense and the times this guild or that guild hasn't shown up for something is more down to in-fighting and pettiness than whether the guild is RvR or PvE focused.

 

[dakeyras]

Originally posted by klavrynd
Don't feel like being PC.



IF YOU WANNA ZERG, GO EXCAL, AVALON, LOGRES OR ONE OF THE GERMAN ZERG SERVERS.

Piss off to Camlann please

 

[vestax]

Originally posted by dakeyras
Piss off to Camlann please

Skilgannon - 50 Reaver Excalibur
Regnak - 50 Mercenary Excalibur
Cadwallon - 50 Cleric Excalibur
Officer of the Shadowlords Society

Dakeyras - 50 Skald (dead)
Skilgannon - 50 Savage
Jianna - 4x Shaman
Nemesis

Airgad Oakheart - 50 Thane

Piss off to Excal please

 

[Aarweenie]

Originally posted by ImLestat
First off, me and Aarweenie's discussion has sidetracked a small bit from the article, which mainly concerns "elitist" guilds. Just mentioning it so that you know the difference.

I have nothing against RvR guilds, let them run in their full fg's all they want, what I have something against is the type of people that are indeed trying to set their rules upon the RvR situation on the server. I am NOT saying that "RvR guild is bad" as you say. Let them do their thing I say, however they apparently aren't happy with what others are doing. You say that you haven't seen anyone from RvR guilds trying to police the RvR situation so let me just quote one from this very thread (and he isn't the only one, just an example.):

People from both sides are having trouble too see that you can play the game on annother way then theirs... but... what Klavrynd wrote, is that more to try to police over non-RvR guilds then making this topic in the first place...

if you read the article it's basiclly saying: "RvR-guilds should piss off and go and hide somewhere so we don't have to see them anymore"... question is then... who is policeing who?

if the "policeing" people have had against RvR-guilds isn't policeing... then in what way have RvR guilds policed non-RvR guilds?


Klavrynd said what she said since she don't like Zergs... ok well... someone wanted to restrict RvR guilds to other zones... if the policeing is the way they say they don't like zergs... isn't the whineing about that RvR guilds don't join keep raids, RRs, PvE raids and so policeing too?

 

[Damon_D]

Hmmm dont realy see any one blaming peopel for running in fg's..only peopel yelling at other peopel for not doing it... Peopel dont get annoyed with the "RvR" guilds because they run in fg's..but because of there attitude

 

[Aarweenie]

taken from the article:

You'll never see them running with the zerg, even when it's necessary to stand a chance against an opposing zerg. You'll never see them clearing DF for lowbies when the dungeon changes hands, or participating in raids, be they dragon, relic, keep or dungeon. They follow the realm points, and the realm points stay in Emain. No, chances are you'll never see them anywhere but in your realm's premiere power leveling spot, twinking their latest FotM rerolls to fifty so they can get back to inflating their virtual ego with a hefty realm point total

it is the article this whole disscussion bases on after all

if you can't see that the author of the article don't want to tell RvR guilds to play the game his way then I don't know ;p

 

[rpgnotmmo]

imbecile

Which is so wrong, it's the whining rolepl.. err casual players that proclaim other guilds to be "l33t".

hey SFB, in case u hadnt noticed daoc = a mmorpg

the rpg bit stands for (i'll say it slowly for the dumbnuts out there)

role



playing



game

wanna play shooty shoot wiv your paper doll?
fo & play half life2 on a lan

idiot...........................:doh:

 

[Damon_D]

Was commenting on your "" Klavrynd said... " part .Surely the poster of the article is a bit " over the edge " imho..but he has some valid points.. I myself like a nice balanced group..but I play mostly at silly hours, and can only play at " primetime " 1 or 2 times a week , but when I then get lucky now and then, and get invited to some uber group ( Thx Blej and Grizlas ) I like it.. But sometimes I'm just having a blast running around and not trying to die to fast with random group's , or a guild group with what ever chars just feel'd like joining at that moment ~ not very well balanced at sometimes .. Has to be room for both things..and anyone saying it should be this way and only this way..should go get help IMHO

 

[Farnis]

Originally posted by Damon Doombring
Was commenting on your "" Klavrynd said... " part .Surely the poster of the article is a bit " over the edge " imho..but he has some valid points.. I myself like a nice balanced group..but I play mostly at silly hours, and can only play at " primetime " 1 or 2 times a week , but when I then get lucky now and then, and get invited to some uber group ( Thx Blej and Grizlas ) I like it.. But sometimes I'm just having a blast running around and not trying to die to fast with random group's , or a guild group with what ever chars just feel'd like joining at that moment ~ not very well balanced at sometimes .. Has to be room for both things..and anyone saying it should be this way and only this way..should go get help IMHO

Bravo

 

[scarffs]

The discussion should be a tad more basic.
WHY are people so focused on realm points ? is the basic question.
Answer : Because you get extra skills ( ra ) and realm titles.
Who doesnt like a new realm title or a cool realm ability ?

Solution to the entire problem : No extra skills, no realm titles anymore. The rp aspect will become very much like 1.5 years ago, people will rvr for fun instead of looking at it as a second xp grind to get to rr5+ asap.

Of course, everyones idea of fun is different and we all do what we want. I, for one, enjoyed my rvr with Bad Omen. Good groups mostly and lots of rps. Problem is indeed that someone who works, studies or has a social life hardly qualifies for such a guild which demands a lot of time played.

A valid point is that these players SHOULD win consistently against random groups. But what if you can only get into random groups ? Should you just content yourself with porting to give rps to rvr guilds ? In the end, everyone will get tired of being farmed and pve or quit the game or zerg. Logical, cant blame em.

Why am I even typing this ?

Whatever...

Also nice people in it, some others are the big egotrippers of which it takes only a handful to ruin the game for everyone.

 

[zapzap]

Are there any guild on Mid prydwen that dont come to relic raid or to kill the dragon ? Iam sure u see them doing raids also like everybody that wants a drop or 2.

Let people kill a lvl 55 mobs with 6fg if thats fun or get 100 people to retake a keep with 60 defenders if thats fun, not my kind of fun effects all is nice and it sure hurts my eyes to see mjoilner and spears all over the place.

There are some kind of basix rules that most people agree on, but sure u want fun why not ask a SB to be puller in Malmo or a RM to be MA when killing a WOW. Makes same sence to me as killing 10 albs with 6fg mids with no CC or MA. 6fg xpers get bad xp killing 1 mob same goes for rps.

We would have Hell if 5 fg mids would begin zerking Mobs in malmo where some people have waited 10 hours to get a group.

Show respect for what other people like or do to have fun BUT that doesnt mean u have to do the same or agree.

Zapsi

 

[old.Gombur Glodson]

Re: imbecile

Originally posted by rpgnotmmo
hey SFB, in case u hadnt noticed daoc = a mmorpg

the rpg bit stands for (i'll say it slowly for the dumbnuts out there)

role



playing



game

wanna play shooty shoot wiv your paper doll?
fo & play half life2 on a lan

idiot...........................:doh:

Were you born an idiot or did you take lessons?
Now try reading his post again and see if you can get the point this time.
mmk?

 

[rpgnotmmo]

Were you born an idiot or did you take lessons?
Now try reading his post again and see if you can get the point this time.
mmk?

oh look, another idiot

i got the point 1st time fyi

just sick of those numnuts who see RPers as secondclass citizens when surely ITS THE AIM OF THE GAME??????

using 'roleplayer' as term of abuse = stoooooopid
thinking there is only one way to play the game & its rvr l33t bs = stooooopider

:edit: and yes i know i just contradicted myself there
so sue me

 

[ImLestat]

Originally posted by Aarweenie
People from both sides are having trouble too see that you can play the game on annother way then theirs... but... what Klavrynd wrote, is that more to try to police over non-RvR guilds then making this topic in the first place...

if you read the article it's basiclly saying: "RvR-guilds should piss off and go and hide somewhere so we don't have to see them anymore"... question is then... who is policeing who?

if the "policeing" people have had against RvR-guilds isn't policeing... then in what way have RvR guilds policed non-RvR guilds?


Klavrynd said what she said since she don't like Zergs... ok well... someone wanted to restrict RvR guilds to other zones... if the policeing is the way they say they don't like zergs... isn't the whineing about that RvR guilds don't join keep raids, RRs, PvE raids and so policeing too?

I do agree that the article is a bit too extreme, but there are some points in it just like Damon said.

I've tried to explain that we both have the same values, that there should be no rules set by anyone on any side in this discussion but you seem to fail to realize that. What more can I do? You may argue that I made this thread to police RvR guilds but it's just not true.

Damon said something that I couldn't have said better myself, and it is really what I've been annoyed with:

Originally posted by Damon Doombring
Hmmm dont realy see any one blaming peopel for running in fg's..only peopel yelling at other peopel for not doing it... Peopel dont get annoyed with the "RvR" guilds because they run in fg's..but because of there attitude

 

[old.Gombur Glodson]

Originally posted by rpgnotmmo
oh look, another idiot

i got the point 1st time fyi

just sick of those numnuts who see RPers as secondclass citizens when surely ITS THE AIM OF THE GAME??????

using 'roleplayer' as term of abuse = stoooooopid
thinking there is only one way to play the game & its rvr l33t bs = stooooopider

Then please explain to me why RvR is such a big part of this mmoRPG, and it is.

It never dawned on you, that people in rvr guild might be tired of all the complaining from the people, who can't seem to understand that they play the game the way THEY choose to? And because they think its fun?

Now why don't you try and find some threads where rvr guilds have been slagging of casual/roleplaying guilds and then find threads where people are slagging off rvr guilds.

I think you will find most threads containing the latter.

 

[rpgnotmmo]

Now why don't you try and find some threads where rvr guilds have been slagging of casual/roleplaying guilds and then find threads where people are slagging off rvr guilds.

I think you will find most threads containing the latter.

good point, well made, i'm off (nice calm reply to a supposedly ranting maniac - you win a point Gombur and reaffirm my faith in human nature )
:great:
:bazbeer:
ps is there any 'casual/roleplay guilds' in daoc?????

 

[Coren]

I'm misunderstood, should I start using smilies?

 

[Aarweenie]

Originally posted by ImLestat
I do agree that the article is a bit too extreme, but there are some points in it just like Damon said.

I've tried to explain that we both have the same values, that there should be no rules set by anyone on any side in this discussion but you seem to fail to realize that. What more can I do? You may argue that I made this thread to police RvR guilds but it's just not true.

Damon said something that I couldn't have said better myself, and it is really what I've been annoyed with:

I haven't failed to see what you claim me to have... what you do that I think is very wrong is that you assume everyone that belongs to one of the RvR guilds think the same... for example, klavrynd said she didn't like zergs and that they who zerged should move to annother server... because she said that you're claiming that every RvR guild thinks like that...

it's like, hmm... Saaug wasn't a member of an RvR guild (been told he have sold his account)... in other words, he was a random player... or what you want to call it... does that make everyone that isn't in a RvR think it's ok to leech from outside the group in malmo to get cash? or other things he have done....

ofc not... so stop seeing RvR guilds as brainwashed twins that all think the same...

notice in this topic that as soon as klavrynd had said her sentance that everyone assumed that I agreed to it and made me have to answer to it...


annother thing... said it before in this topic and I'll say it again... people that isn't in RvR guilds are trying to get people that are in RvR guilds to play diffrent too... just as much if not more... this topic is a proof of non-RvR guild people trying to get RvR guild people to play diffrent...


about the thing with bad attitude to others... I belive this to be a result of massive whineing... RvR guilds want to play the game in they way they find it funny... other people complain and complain and complain and complain and complain and complain and complain and complain... so in the end they put up "eat me", "cry more", /ignore defences... this is basicly because they don't want to hear to more complainments about how other people think they should play...

I mean... if you really hate keep raids... and you have someone complaining 24/7 about you doing something else when there is keep raids... you will ignore him/her after a while...

basicly... RvR guilds might have a bad attitude... but they don't have it to feel cool... they have it because they don't want to hear more shit about how they play...

 

[Coren]

"Hypocrite: The man who murdered his parents, and then pleaded for mercy on the grounds that he was an orphan". -Abraham Lincoln

 

[Derric]

Coren is dutch,ain't that weird?

 

[ImLestat]

Seriously, you really do read exactly what you want into anything when you say the things you do. I DON'T AT ALL say that all RvR guilds or all people in RvR guilds are the same, it's just a tendency that the people that DO bitch are FROM RvR guilds. I've tried to be very careful with pointing this out by placing words like "some" and "or people in them" here and there, but apparently you missed those. I'm not stupid like some people that think "if someone from guild x does one thing then all of the people from the same guild does it too". You however brand me as such without thinking twice... Lol, reading it again I can't do anything else but chuckle. Yeah, I think they are "brainwashed", lol...

And you say that placing rules upon RvR is wrong in one of the first posts, yet you fail to acknowledge that it is wrong when people (usually from RvR guilds) tries to set rules as to how RvR on the server is to be. And then you make up some fake story that they do this because they are tired of complaining.. Are they tired of complaining when they are shouting "dont zerg ffs!!!1111" also?? Might be so in other cases but certainly not in this one. Nah, you are just trolling about, making up stuff here and there as you see fit.

And the only reason I quoted Klav is because you said you haven't seen anyone from RvR guilds trying to police the RvR situation. Did I in any way hold you responsible for that quote? Nope. Did anyone else hold you responsible for that quote? Nope, when they said something they addressed Klav instead of you. Just another thing you just made up.

I'll butt out of this discussion because you STILL fail to see that we both mean the same thing, and because you seem to make up things as you go. It's sad really, I always thought you were reasonable but apparently not.

 

[Jonaldo]

I say all RvR guilds smell of poo though.

 

[Gohrim]

?

play the game the whay u like to play it.
Ignore anyone trying to force u to do somthing u dont want to do.

Imo noone pay a sub to be the slave of somone elses ideals.

 

[Riddler]

1st page of this thread rocked...but now

Aarweenie pointed it all out on 1st page...well said and nuff said

 

[taobitzz]

Random RVR groups are almost impossible now, mainly due to a rvr guild group msging healers etc in the casual group to join them. Of course the healer/other essential class will leave as joining a group with a perfect rvr makeup of classes has a much better chance of success. Leaving the casual group stripped of its most essential class.

Bitz (Not taobitz, added so BO ppl can direct slagging comments at me not my bro)

 

[bloody]

imo that guy in the article is all wrong.

he says that people in elite rvr guilds only do it for RP's

i'm in one, i do it for challinging my skills, i enjoy a good fight were everyone works well together, all the elements combine in perfect unision to deliver an excelent perfomance.

the best fun is when you encounter another such guild and really test your skills versus each other. It's the same reason that i like to play quake, to test my skills.

If not in a rvr guild you'll have ppl not doing what the outlined tactic is, you can't really trust people around you to do what they needa, and you havn't learned to work well together yet.

therefore i hardly find it as fun as running a good group.
other people like different stuff fine do different stuff, don't complain about us running a good group with the classes we see fit to work well with each other.

now about keep takes, when we run a mellee group with 4 support and 4 tanks then yoyu can't really do much at a keep, I have been at a TON of keeptakes, and now it's simply to dull, i don't find it very fun hitting a door for hours. not challenging at all, and i need challenge to have fun. and since daoc is not solo game you needa work your skills across a group and work unision

 

[Aarweenie]

just for a start.... remember you said this:

Originally posted by ImLestat
But who decided that RvR guilds are the ones that gets to decide how RvR is meant to be played server wide? Let them run in their fg's all they want, but don't let them police how others should play the game. If all the others want to run in 10fgs why not let them? But no that's not right, then they have to bitch and complain and say that "zerging is teh lame!!!!!". Get my point? RvR guilds made something by starting to run in fg's and have fun in their way, but what can we others do? If we start running in 2fgs we will just be called lamers and glared at. Is that fair?

Reading your post it seems we are both trying to make the same points, for our sides in the argument. I go a bit further however and say that (some) RvR guilds (or people in them) seem to have set up rules for how RvR is to be played, and you yourself state that there are no such rules, and I can't agree more... By trying to police how RvR should be they are actively ruining our fun, and placing their enjoyment above ours.

well... RvR guilds say zerging is lame... and that is what we have argued much about... take a look at this topic:
http://forums.barrysworld.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=71772
the author of the first post in the topic is a member if Jormangdr (or how it is spelled) if I'm not wrong... and I don't know if I should call Jormangdr a RvR guild... so... what do we have here... someone NOT in a RvR trying to "police" RvR... and what is my point? it's not only RvR guild people saying "zerging is teh lame"

Originally posted by ImLestat
it's just a tendency that the people that DO bitch are FROM RvR guilds.

something you feel or have in numbers? well... all I know is that almost everyday I can hear someone whine about RvR guilds in some form... and everyday I can hear people from outside what we call "RvR guilds" whine about zergs... so I can feel that people from outside these guilds whine just as much... but if you can show me something more then your feeling about this then I'll be quiet...

I've tried to be very careful with pointing this out by placing words like "some" and "or people in them" here and there, but apparently you missed those. I'm not stupid like some people that think "if someone from guild x does one thing then all of the people from the same guild does it too". You however brand me as such without thinking twice... Lol, reading it again I can't do anything else but chuckle. Yeah, I think they are "brainwashed", lol...

And you say that placing rules upon RvR is wrong in one of the first posts, yet you fail to acknowledge that it is wrong when people (usually from RvR guilds) tries to set rules as to how RvR on the server is to be.

and again... it's not only people from RvR guilds that whine about the zerg (cause no other kind of "policeing" I haven't seen... or at least I wouldn't call it policeing)...

and again... trying to stop RvR guilds from doing what they want to do is just as much policeing as trying to stop the zerg... I think you've said you think the article was a bit extreme somewhere... so since we agree with everything else then the policeing... I think this discussion is over if I say that people from outside RvR guild also whine about the zerg or about RvR guilds...

And then you make up some fake story that they do this because they are tired of complaining.. Are they tired of complaining when they are shouting "dont zerg ffs!!!1111" also?? Might be so in other cases but certainly not in this one. Nah, you are just trolling about, making up stuff here and there as you see fit.

it's fake? how is it fake? how do you know it?
my guess is that you WANT it to be fake... and say it's fake in hope it is... if someone is makeing stuff up here it's you... since I would call it making up when claiming the story is fake when you have no idea if it is or not...

tierd of hearing "don't zerg ffs!!!11"... ofc they are... they don't generally like zerg... a few of them whine about it, rest accept it, but they would be more then happy if they didn't have to hear anyone whineing about zerg...

also... let me compare the situation since you're a member of KN... if someone would write an article and whine on BW that KN or guilds like KN, don't know what to call them, are bad guilds because they exp alts or something instead of helping out in Emain.... then you would be mad at them... they don't really stop whineing... so the best way to keep doing what you think is fun is to ignore them... so did the RvR guilds...

And the only reason I quoted Klav is because you said you haven't seen anyone from RvR guilds trying to police the RvR situation. Did I in any way hold you responsible for that quote? Nope. Did anyone else hold you responsible for that quote? Nope, when they said something they addressed Klav instead of you. Just another thing you just made up.

Daemon wrote this in when Klavrynd had written what she had:
"Hmmm dont realy see any one blaming peopel for running in fg's..only peopel yelling at other peopel for not doing it... Peopel dont get annoyed with the "RvR" guilds because they run in fg's..but because of there attitude"
then I have to ask... what is the attitude of RvR guilds? klavrynds attitude? he's generallising RvR guilds as thinking zergs are lame and zergers should move to annother server... I'm a member of Bad Omen, what I would like to call RvR guild at least, and by saying RvR guilds have bad attitude against zergs and people in them you're saying Bad Omen has a bad attitude against them, and guess what, by saying Bad Omen has a bad attitude against zergs and people in them you're saying that I have a bad attitude against them.... how ever I don't blame you for what Daemon said... even tho you replyed to me with a quote of this message he wrote... what I do critize you for is saying that no one held me responsible for what Klavrynd said... not this time... but everytime she have said something bad about zergs you have thought of her as a speakesman (or what you say) for RvR guilds when she only have said her opinion... it might be shared by others that are apart of RvR guilds but not all of them think so...

I'll butt out of this discussion because you STILL fail to see that we both mean the same thing, and because you seem to make up things as you go. It's sad really, I always thought you were reasonable but apparently not.

I still fail to see we both mean the same thing? no I don't... I don't think it's right to to make rules about what is wrong and right to do in RvR... if people want to zerg, let them...

what YOU fail to see is that it's not only RvR guilds that are trying to make these rules... or some people in the RvR guilds...

People outside RvR guilds are trying hard to make RvR guilds go away, either because they have been told they don't need them and have a hate for them because of that... or in annother way... I don't know... either way, they don't like them... they're whineing at them claiming they have destroyed the fun of the game... what rules are they trying to make? well... one rule could be written like this:

you shouldn't make a guild of the most effective RvR classes just to run in 1fg in Emain and kill others that don't have a perfect group with high realm ranks...


the doors swing both ways as you said in one of your first posts


making things up? that is a serious accuse and I'll remember it... I don't like people calling me a liar to save their own skin... since you have no proof what so ever that I have made things up... it's an easy way of getting away when you have nothing left to say....

and yes, it's sad that you accuse me for makeing things up when I haven't

reasonable? what does that word mean to you? hiding that the things you accuse people in RvR guilds for doing is also done by people from outside these guilds?

Originally posted by Taobitzz
Bitz (Not taobitz, added so BO ppl can direct slagging comments at me not my bro) [/B]

hmm... may I ask why you don't have an own forum nick? you know they are free to register?

and do you use your brothers nick on irc too? since I remember the exact words from the chat logg I recently read with what you have written here...

 

[ImLestat]

Whatever, you will keep trolling about and keep this discussion going beyond reasoning so there is no point continuing it. I'll just show you a few points where you are clearly wrong.

Originally posted by Aarweenie
it's fake? how is it fake? how do you know it?
my guess is that you WANT it to be fake... and say it's fake in hope it is... if someone is makeing stuff up here it's you... since I would call it making up when claiming the story is fake when you have no idea if it is or not...

tierd of hearing "don't zerg ffs!!!11"... ofc they are... they don't generally like zerg... a few of them whine about it, rest accept it, but they would be more then happy if they didn't have to hear anyone whineing about zerg...

It's fake because RvR guilds aren't the ones HEARING "dont zerg ffs!!!111", they are the ones saying it (usually). How can they be tired of hearing something they are saying?? Use another example, like someone shouting "dont run in fg's ffs!!111" and it MIGHT have been true (just an example though). See the difference? Tried to point it out by saying it might be true in other cases, but as usual you conveniently miss it...

And saying that I should get something more than feeling is just lame, getting ANYTHING quantified out of it would take a poll on Goa's homepage at least. And NEWSFLASH, neither you nor I have that authority, so if we see it that way neither of us might be right in the end.

And you once again brand me without thinking. Of course I know that there are people outside RvR guilds that don't like zergs, heck I'm one of them, but I don't run around shouting "dont zerg ffs!!!111" anyway. I do have a "feeling" (Yes it's a feeling, so sue me, as stated above I can't produce anything better unless Goa hires me to it.) that amongst the ones shouting the majority are from RvR guilds. If I follow your lead I can also say that finding one or two people outside RvR guilds that shout doesn't make you right either, so let's see you produce that spread sheet you so much want to see regarding this matter.

Originally posted by Aarweenie
what I do critize you for is saying that no one held me responsible for what Klavrynd said... not this time... but everytime she have said something bad about zergs you have thought of her as a speakesman (or what you say) for RvR guilds when she only have said her opinion... it might be shared by others that are apart of RvR guilds but not all of them think so...

So you basically criticize me for being right with what I said? Read again, that's what you are saying. I didn't hold you responsible, nor did anyone else.
And about the last sentence, I've already addressed that in another post, no point in writing it all again... And by saying that I thought of her as a spokesman for RvR guilds you are ONCE AGAIN branding me without thinking. Quite astonishing that you yourself keep doing the things you hate so much, and accuse me of doing.

Originally posted by Aarweenie
making things up? that is a serious accuse and I'll remember it... I don't like people calling me a liar to save their own skin... since you have no proof what so ever that I have made things up... it's an easy way of getting away when you have nothing left to say....

and yes, it's sad that you accuse me for makeing things up when I haven't

reasonable? what does that word mean to you? hiding that the things you accuse people in RvR guilds for doing is also done by people from outside these guilds?

I've now proven a few times that you have indeed made things up. The issue with the quote of Klav, the story about "dont zerg ffs!!11", that you conveniently time and time again miss key (and important for the discussion and what I am indeed saying) words from what I've said to brand me as a person who judge all in a group for the actions of one (or few).

You are right in one thing, but that regards you as much as me. I can't quantify what I am saying, but you on the other hand can't quantify your side either. Gathering one or a few posts here and there on boards does not make either one of us officially right.

Originally posted by Aarweenie
reasonable? what does that word mean to you? hiding that the things you accuse people in RvR guilds for doing is also done by people from outside these guilds?

Reasonable for me is quite like what it sounds like. Someone you can reason with. I don't feel that that is the case here. You continously keep talking "around me", and as stated before conveniently miss key words here and there to get your own point right in the end. I don't call that reasonable, but I guess that's the meaning of the word for you. But you keep twisting what I say whatever way you want, it's obviously what you enjoy to do.

Bah, I don't know why I keep bothering with such discussions in a game I'm hardly even playing any more. You keep on trolling though, wouldn't expect anything less...

Edit: Btw, before you start saying that I hate RvR guilds let me just say that I am not. I hold many people in RvR guilds, and many RvR guilds in high regard. Hmm, makes one wonder how that is possible when I obviously (according to you) judge them all. Well, nevermind...

 

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But are u the 1 getting 20 PMs a day go help with keep taking wtf u doing in emain ect ?????????


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