What is a good tactic to..

[Trubble]

First of all, the mentioned mid group is atm the strongest group in the game atm. It is beatable, but only if it doesnt have its RAs up or if it screws up.

The problems:

1. End regen is conc based, so it never runs out and it is on from the beginning.

2. 3xSavages kills extremely fast (nerf savages).

3. 3xPF makes the fight 8vs11 instead of 8vs8.

4. Mids have superior CC (mez/root/stun) in instas and ae versions.

Assuming mids have their RAs up:

No other realm than Mid has ae stun, so albs/hibs only have one CC form effective against mids and that is mez, but the healer can just purge that. Further more CC is totally a joke on a high determination/aom tank with SC gear and good resists bufs. So in conclusion CC is a not effective against this group.

Now add PR to this. 3 PR is 3 more players to the 8 man group. Meaning 37,5% more hps on the mid group that you have to chew through. So the alb/hib group needs 37,5% more killing power than the mid group. Giving that savages are overpowered you will prob need 5 damagedealers to match 3 savages and PF.

Also you can be sure the shaman will AE disease the hibs/albs, meaning only 50% effective heals. It is extremely rare that hibs/albs run around with ae disease spell. So effectively we will see that hibs/albs need twice the healing to keep up with the mid healing. Giving a mid group have 3 healers (1 pac) and 1 shaman you would need at least 3 main healers where one is doing cure disease each time the shaman reapplies the disease, to keep up with the mid healing power.

So to match the mid group you need 5 damagedealers and 3 healers. For damagedealers hibs could use enchanters cause their BAOD is so nice. Otherwise it has to be determination tanks, also 2 druids with GP will make it easier to defend against mid cc. Albions might do with 2 clerics with BoF to make up for the lack of healing, 1 minstrel and 5 determination tanks. The minstrel can take care of mezzing the enemy support while using SoS, so no need for a sorc really.

 

[Ravenbourne]

a ranger rapid firing all their healers to interupt

 

[stinkie]

think Id go:
Mincer
Wizzie
Wizzie
Wizzie
Wizzie
Wizzie
Wizzie
Wizzie

7xVP = instantly dead mids from bolt range.


Next Q. ?

 

[hellige]

its nice to see that u think u get all buffs end regen ras etc back when u get pr'd

 

[Apathy]

Originally posted by hellige
its nice to see that u think u get all buffs end regen ras etc back when u get pr'd

Are you trying to say that PR isn't that good?

a.
*

 

[hellige]

i'm saying pr != 11 buffed players

 

[piggeman]

the answer is easier then you think - sk33l!

 

[rg-zorena]

rofl rofl..
1.) go whine on cf that savages are overpowered
2.) go zerg 2fg because its allowed cus bugabusing mids are actually using savages.
3.) when mid fg kill you 2fg whine more and blame it all on overpowered savages and get more numbers.!!!
ZERG FOR THE WIN!

 

[adari]

put /release on a macro and rush back when they rest :d

 

[Zoldot]

Originally posted by Trubble
First of all, the mentioned mid group is atm the strongest group in the game atm. It is beatable, but only if it doesnt have its RAs up or if it screws up.

The problems:

1. End regen is conc based, so it never runs out and it is on from the beginning.


3. 3xPF makes the fight 8vs11 instead of 8vs8.


CC is totally a joke on a high determination/aom tank with SC gear and good resists bufs. So in conclusion CC is a not effective against this group.

Now add PR to this. 3 PR is 3 more players to the 8 man group. Meaning 37,5% more hps on the mid group that you have to chew through.

1. end regen dissapears if you kill the shammy.

2. rofl so you say 1 PR is 1 extra person? yeah right. and can not use it every fight.

3. Eh so CC is a totally joke on high determination/aom tanks? then Why dont you use such tanks and your'e tanks dont need to worry about healers CC.

4. And if your'e saying all can use PR then you assume they dont go for healers first? so you assuming they maybe go for shammy then tanks or??

I havent read all teh comments but much is pretty funny to read all these whines. You can tell it differents of ways... I can like say how do you kill an good hib group? they ae mezz you. chanters/mana eld pbae and mid group dead lol. What many ppls here are saying is there version. They just say what mids do and that they cant do anything bout it.. they doesn't say like and then WE ae mezz them and our tanks go for shammy/healers and we got pbae at our healers so there tanks cant kill em as easily etc.

I'm not interested in argue about things like this.
Keep the whine going! its funneh!

Altho I have to agree that savages needs a nerf in someway. maybe make there self buffs not as good as they are atm and take away the hp loss would be a good ide. then they arent as effective in group. and mid got 3 different tanks with determination and that might also be a problem. Maybe take away cheap RA's for savages but nto sure about that.

 

[old.Odysseus]

albs tactics: ./release
hib tactics: use skillz (insta something etc.)

 

[old.Nol]

Originally posted by old.Odysseus
albs tactics: ./release
hib tactics: use skillz (insta something etc.)

Insta CC Immunity?

 

[-Wedge-]

Imho...

Your support has to run like hell to stay out of reach of the savages... Most of them have pets, all put them on different healers...

Your damage dealers (hopefully tanks, casters & standing still & savages racing to them is kinda uh, a dead caster) then go after a healing class... Shaman has pro's but if your unlucky 2-3 PR's, Healers has pro's (guaranteed 1 PR less) but savages will still have perma sprint...

As soon as that healer is PR'd (you can almost wait for it), you take down that healer again... If he doesnt get PR'd, go for the other healer in the group (PR down? )... Always take out the newly rezzed members of the group...

After you've finished your healer 'dance'... Hope some of your group are still breathing... And its just clearing out the remains...

If your unlucky, you have to kill the same person 2-4 times...

It depends a bit on how well your support can stay away from the savages...

Getting rid of their support is very hard, but its doable.. Any RA helps, for albs BoF and SoS... For Hibs TWF is a nice one (nicely able to outrun savages)...

 

[Herbal Remedy]

Originally posted by rg-zorena
rofl rofl..
i play in a new noskill savage guild i used to zerg with rg but now i find i farm more rps buy using uber leet savages........ who obviously have better skillz than rr9 alb n hib tanks.

We mainly rolled chars that would mean we could win every fg vs fg fight not matter how retarded we play, hell i let my 3 year old cousin play she enjoys pressing random keys and watching albs die.

Infact where so proud of her she said her 1st word yesterday "wtfpwned", we are so glad shes going to grow up just like all the rest of our skillless fucktard swedish family. For her 4th birthday we are hoping to plan an alarm clock 6 am relic raid.
OVERPOWERED SAVAGES FOR THE WIN!

 

[stunned]

thuper tips !

 

[censi]

stick your head between your legs and kiss your ass goodbye!

 

[Sharp Thing]

Originally posted by Tilda
if i were running a hib group, i'd get 3-4 chanters, and box very well. If the savages go for you, you QC pbaoe and just normal PBAoE, if you get hit, MoC.
If the savages stay out, /assist debuff nuke the shammy, then healers down.

If you cant do a pure chanter group, have 2-3 chanters following a slam tank, he slams a savage, you pbaoe it dead.

etc

Tilda

so you'd just spam pb, gg, you'd lose bad

 

[Ensceptifica]

Btw can all the people who are not not interested in the initial discussion and who are instead trying to turn this thread into a flame go away? It's very simple. Stop posting flames here. Stop swearing at people. Stop turning it into something you can whine about, while it is actually just an inquiry for people to come up with some good ideas. I am not interested in hearing anyone telling me that savages are overpowered or chanters are overpowered or albs zerg or mids play fotm classes or whatever. Take those statements and shove them deep into your backside and shove your keyboard after it to avoid you from posting here. Thank you and don't come back.

Right. Back to the topic:

Nice suggestion about the Warden TWF... but does the TWF snare really affect determination tanks that much? I know the dot only interrupts on the first tick (or was that second tick due to a bug?), which is a nice way to interrupt healers for a bit. The damage on TWF is negligable afaik. But for hibs, I think the best tactics I heard so far are taking 1 warden for twf (which most don't have btw), 2 druids, 1 bard, 2-3 chanters for pbaoe and interrupting pets (dunno if baod is much good vs mids, who hardly use offensive magic) and 1-2 tanks for slam/damage/determination... In /gu somebody mentioned today that pierce bm's are supposedly very good vs mids, any comments on that? ( ;

Seems most people will have to focus on avoiding healer stun/mez and shaman disease, so that's what 2 x GP and a bard for cure mez should be good for. That increases the odds even more than the initial bard mez maybe. The tactic of going for 1 healer twice sounds pretty solid...

And yes, for Albs VP, BOF and SOS are probably pretty good ( ;

 

[parzi]

kiting with twf also works, did that with my hib pbae group when it was up. also use your snare pets wisely, not just let them follow you, put them on "hold position" so they dont get hit by aemez and start casting their snare dd instead of whacking the enemys in meelee, let them nuke on different targets just for the snare etc. its harder to pull of than assist tankgrps ofc, cause cloth armor punishes the group hard for every little fault they make
also replace the 3rd chanter for mana eld, aestr con debuff is nice, and aedisease is also very good for the kiting tactic.
but if it works, its great. you see the tanks chasing someone, and they just cant get him cause they are snared, diseased, ooe or slowed by twf (afaik it works on det tanks too, as the snare effect seems to be renewed with every tick) , while the rest of the group nukes the supporters.
group purge and maybe single purge is also neccesarry for that, or baod with good resist buffs and some aom/emtpy mind so that you are basically cc immune. that one is heavily underrated imo. 85-90+% resistfortehwin ! its like det3-4 for whole grp 30 sec or so

either that, or just box up and assist nuke or pbae depending on situation.


and can some albs test heat debuff+VP pls ? would like to know what damage that would be hehe

 

[justintime]

.

I have to agree that a void eld and 2 pb mages is an intreagueing option.

Since it doesn't last long and is single target
(thankfully tbh) I think it would be challenging to debuff for a pber. However the potential rewards are enormous, often I find that I'm pbing for around 400(-350). Debuff would change that to 1004(+lots), get 2 pbers with a few levels of mota and no healer is going to keep up with that.

Simmilarly a bolt (cold dmg for elds) would be increadibly nasty after debuff (if it hit). I think bolts have a higher damage cap than pb so potentially ouch! Bolts are supposed to be faster to cast this patch too... If nothing else the voidie will lag bomb anyone who hasn't turned effects off :>

One for the albs, get a necro* to af/abs debuff the sorc to heat debuff and a fire wizzy to bolt something - see if it glows after ^^

* yes I know, poor saps.

Justintime

 

[old.m0000]

Originally posted by Ensceptifica
... take out a fg mids who have 2-3 healers, a shammy and for the rest tanks? With just a fg I mean. When there's fg-fg action, running into Mid groups that have this setup usually proves the biggest challenge. I was wondering what people think is the best tactic to go about... post-1.62 anyway. I'm particularly interested in Hib tactics ofcourse, but I'd be interested to see an Alb group's tactics as well ( ;

random alb grp tactics would be :

die, then : /c 5 FG MIDS KILLED US AT xx,xx
then wait for outlaw to come with friends, kill the mids and rez joo.

 

[K0nah]

this mid grp makeup has 4 pure support chars who have no dmg output whatsoever, thier only role is healing/cc: mezz/stun/root AND disease (slight snare, still useful) 3 of which are insta's.

kill the savages whilst interrupting as many healers as possible.

a butterfly in the face of those 4 support chars and they cant cast shit (without moc that is, but that only lasts 15s and u can always slam them for most of that)

a savage gets PR'd hes got no buffs. a healer gets PR'd hes got a fresh full mana bar...

hibs have a good chance with this tactic because of the anti-cc effect of baod and the abundance of chanter/druid pets & gp & twf.

wouldnt really work for albs cos 1-pet max usually, no gp, no twf, no baod and umm only ~3chars with det so all too easy to let a healer/shammy slip thru ur fingers because of insta cc. very very tuff nut for albs to crack when mid classes are played well/high rr.

 

[ceix]

voidie debuffing for chanters/mana elds could work, too bad interrupt system is a big pile of shit atm so around 99.99% time the debuffer or the pbaoers would be interrupted, thus making this plan utter bollocks

melee cant be interrupted

magic can, too easily if i may add

atm theres really no way to counter a melee heavy group, they need to fk up or something for them to end up dead

 

[Novamir]

[buffbot]
bard
nature druid
nurt/reg druid
warden
chanter
chanter
mana eld
hero


(with nature druid leader - best but least likely scenario)
instant ae root -> full ae mez -> debuff DD the Healers that purge

(got the jump)
full ae mez -> if 3 pbers pb offensively -> ae root comes in immediately after first mez break of first pbae to help

(got jumped)
GP mez after instant ae stun -> insta ae mez healers -> box up and hope MoCs are up, or finished. probably finished anyway, since savages need only 1-2 seconds per mage.

I could go on for hours about different fight eventualities etc but you proly haven't even read this far so i won't bother


Basically, in any situation where there is 0 range, savages will win because of interrupts/huge instant melee dmg. When we do win.

The main problem in many head on fights is ichor. This RA is fucking uber. Also due to some gay programmer, the normal ae root is on a different timer! Ichor is free CC and a long interrupt at a crucial time.. and the pac healer doesnt have to waste insta ae stun normally to get a full mez in.

After the GP of course comes the dreaded ae disease spam, or maybe ae amnesia spam, whatever u like really. There is no weakness in decent mid groups, and they get the most instant ae CC available in the game on only two chars. That being instant ae stun, instant ae mez, ichor, and pbae Dis (ask any tank, this is proly the best melee protection in the game).


In conclusion.. sometimes its impossible to win even when you have your best setup with most skilled/high RR players. This is because it takes a lot less skill to hammer instant ae CC moving at speed 6, and spam an assist macro with melee damage like the savage(+relics). Mid is definitely easy mode at the moment.

 

[Garnet]

PR is so overrated.

Its good but its not uber. You res a char to 100% instant but the victim is unbuffed, hense could die straight away again. PR would be mainly used on Healers which means the healer will have 1200 - 1400 hp depending if they have used SC or not.

To make PR uber - make it self useable. Good for RVR and PVE

 

[hotrat]

2 Chanters (who know how to use insta attack speed decrease)

In my opinion attack speed debuff is the gayest spell in the game and shouldn't interupt, I hope its fixed soon, or maybe it is and I just can't remember

Also due to some gay programmer, the normal ae root is on a different timer!

Don't you just love Mythic programmers, also I concur that ae root and ichor are definately on different timers.

Mid is definitely easy mode at the moment.

Agreed, although the 3 chanter group I met twice in odins was actually harder to kill because they all targetted me (sorc) right away debuff and 3 nukes (4 spells needed from 3 players) and im dead. And yes I landed mezz first, GP for the win, and instant interupt from pets as soon as GP is fired. Once sorc is down a pbae group is very hard to kill in a alb tank group (pets on clerics).

PR would be mainly used on Healers which means the healer will have 1200 - 1400 hp depending if they have used SC or not.

Oh about the same hits as my sorc fully buffed then, and they have chain. Try rezzing a sorc in combat, 1000 hits at best and no af shields cast makes them very very weak :/


Anyway as for best hib group vs mids try novamir's set up or novamirs set up with 3 bm's instead of chanter's and eld. Make sure the bm's have prevent flight ! and triple weild should be ready pretty much every fight.

 

[uglymug]

Originally posted by Novamir
The main problem in many head on fights is ichor. This RA is fucking uber. Also due to some gay programmer, the normal ae root is on a different timer! Ichor is free CC and a long interrupt at a crucial time.. and the pac healer doesnt have to waste insta ae stun normally to get a full mez in.

yes ichor is nice ..

but ..

at 14 RP i'd hardly call it a "free CC"

 

[censi]

kill the savages first yer right...

basically against mid you have to land insta mezz on the healers.

if they purge the nature druid needs to DOT them quickly.

The bard needs to pop the drum up instantly and get away from the combat zone cuz he will get targeted first. If the bard gets clear he should lul and mezz anyting moving and then go into heal mode.

The nature druid will need to root the tank gank squad. IF all has gone well and you out CC then.

Then you should have started killing their CC.

Problem is with speed 6 if the healers have pruge up you simply wont catch them, and if you do they can be tricky to heal with their own insta heals and heals from the other healers. And chain armour dont help.

AOE diese can really help here in these battles...

Healers should be in cloth imo. They are still the outstanding class in the daoc and chain makes them to hard to kill

 

[Ahqmae]

A good hibbie tank grp setup would be;

Buffbot, Bard, Nature/Regrowth Drood, Nurture/Regrowth Drood, Regrowth Warden, Mana Eldritch, 3 Blademasters.

Alrdy tried it, worked very well

 

[Jiggs]

very good post from noavmir, i think he summed up all the downsides of facing a mid group

dont forget that ichor is........BOLT RANGE

and as such is the _only_ bolt range insta CC in game

from an alb perspective u can beat this group pretty straightforward: just take and extra cleric instead of the sorcerer...

3x BoF is normally long enough to win, and whenever we played the pure tank 3 cleric group it normally rocked versus mids

the reason why we dont play the 3x cleric setup... well tbh it sucks in 90% of other situations where u need a sorcerer.

but if u want to 'just beat the savage groups' thats how u do it...