What is a good tactic to..

[Ensceptifica]

... take out a fg mids who have 2-3 healers, a shammy and for the rest tanks? With just a fg I mean. When there's fg-fg action, running into Mid groups that have this setup usually proves the biggest challenge. I was wondering what people think is the best tactic to go about... post-1.62 anyway. I'm particularly interested in Hib tactics ofcourse, but I'd be interested to see an Alb group's tactics as well ( ;

 

[Carlos Bananos]

random mid grp or np mid grp?

 

[Nazghul-]

Each of the 8 grp members run away in a different direction

 

[Ensceptifica]

Just a group of players who know what they are doing. Ofcourse NP are a particularly hard bunch ( ;

 

[froler-mid]

bof and sos mebbe


gank the liddul shammy (end is goone)


but 3xPR is of annoying

 

[Apathy]

All you can really do is mezz the healers, kill the shaman and then kill the tanks. :/ If a healer purges then keep it interrupted somehow. If it resists, re-CC it.

It's very difficult for Albs, though BoF helps. Chanters with debuff+nuke could take out healers fast enough I guess.

Urgh. IT'S HOPELESS. GIVE UP NOW.

a.
*

 

[cougar-]

fire sos, stick the target while the 5 sec mezz fade, wack shaman, mend healer > mend healer > pac healer while your support move around in speed 5 and make it impossible for em to be hit by our tanks.

or wait, hib! Get a void eld, a mana eld 2 chanters 2 druids a bard and a shieldtank. energydebuff tanks that come inside pbae circle and instakill em, debuff assist njooook shammie then healer.
yw

 

[Pin]

Originally posted by cougar-
fire sos, stick the target while the 5 sec mezz fade, wack shaman, mend healer > mend healer > pac healer while your support move around in speed 5 and make it impossible for em to be hit by our tanks.

think that should be

shaman > mend healer > mend healer > mend healer > shaman > mend healer > pac healer


fecking PR

 

[Tilda]

PR causes a lit of problems.

Has anybody ever tried CCing and then petting if they purge + amnesia spam, and then killing savages first?

 

[alithiel50]

This is a tough one...

One of the most significant problems with this sort of group is PR. If your opponent has 3 healers with PR up, you can end up facing 11 players rather than just 8. So it comes down to choice of initial target... I often find that killing the Shaman as quickly as possible, and repeatedly until the enemy has no PR left, is an effective tactic. Another solution may be to repeatedly kill one of the healers, leaving the enemy group with only 2 PR available.

Of course, your group has to survive a hammering while concentrating on killing the enemy support. Albion has a significant adantage over Hibernia in such fights, in the form of BoF. We rely heavily on this RA against Mid Tank groups. Hibernian groups also tend to have a greater proportion of 'soft targets' (casters with low hp's) than their Albion counterparts, and so are more vulnerable to Midgards tank heavy groups from the start.

Savages are basically a real pain in the ass. You can minimise the damage the hand-to-hand variety do to you by /facing them, preventing them from hitting you with side/rear positional styles. This helps a lot for a healer (or caster) using MoC, as theres less distraction caused by your HP's dropping at an alarming rate!

Personally, I think that a big step towards sorting out some of the balance issues in group vs group RvR would be to restrict the number of characters of any class in a group to a maximum of 2. This would get rid of the 'overpowered' formations that each realm has (3 Healers or 3 Savages in Mid, 3 Chanters in Hib, 3 Mercs in Alb)

 

[yaemon]

hard to gank the liddul shammie when 3 healers + mid tanks are going for your healers/endregen.. and 3-4 assisting Fotm monsters kill em fast. Id say split your fighters in 2 groups 1 grp goes for healers and slammers intercept the enemy tanks.. Then its mages job to kick their asses. Not the greatest plan tbh but imo u cannot concentrate tanks as 1 assistsquad against these midgrps.. If you go for healers.. enemy tanks pwn your healers/bard before u manage to kill enemy healers (who often spread out and move away from battle). If you go for enemy tanks.. the mid healers will keep enemy tanks alive when they run around in their /assistsquad killing your healers/mages


maybe didn't make much sense in the end...just my thoughts

 

[froler-mid]

hmmm...or just zerg em.

 

[Aussie-]

Originally posted by cougar-
fire sos, stick the target while the 5 sec mezz fade, wack shaman, mend healer > mend healer > pac healer while your support move around in speed 5 and make it impossible for em to be hit by our tanks.

wow you can all do this in less then 30sec? impressive!

 

[cougar-]

Originally posted by Aussie-
wow you can all do this in less then 30sec? impressive!

can do more then that *unzip*

 

[Apathy]

And remember you'll almost definitely get diseased by the shaman.

I think disease would work well against the Mid group too, but we'd need a cloth-wearing cabalist with high enough Body for that. Tsk.

a.
*

 

[parzi]

pretty much agree with what cougar said.

 

[Ensceptifica]

Okay, suppose with the popular Hib group - 2x druid, 1x bard, 1x warden, 2x pb, 2x tank - you run into the mid group. What would be the most efficient way of killing the mids? What should be changed about this group to make it more efficient?

I find that pure hib tank groups get annihilated by mid groups too easily, because mid tanks are basically superior (especially with the current relic status). Hib casters do more damage, but they get torn down before they can kill a tank thanks to the barrage of healing.

I do think druid aoe (insta) root might be the key to beating down such a mid group... the extra CC can be used to stop the tanks, so mages can focus on killing the shaman first, then the healers...

 

[Ghostly]

Originally posted by parzi
pretty much agree with what cougar said.

What cougar said would work if albs had savages too, else its nearly impossible to take out the healers and shammies in 30 secs.

 

[)nick(]

1 Void eld
1 Mana eld
2 Chanters (who know how to use insta attack speed decrease)
2 Druids (1 nurture, 1 nature)
1 Bard
1 Lurikeen s/s hero

Wee!

 

[Pin]

Originally posted by Ensceptifica
Okay, suppose with the popular Hib group - 2x druid, 1x bard, 1x warden, 2x pb, 2x tank - you run into the mid group. What would be the most efficient way of killing the mids? What should be changed about this group to make it more efficient?

dump the warden imo. pbt = shit against multiple savages. Get a voidy in there instead.


edit: ooops, I forgot that that's probably not the answer Ensceptifica wants to hear
edit2: hmmm. or maybe your 47 eld alt is void?

 

[old.Nol]

Originally posted by cougar-
can do more then that *unzip*

Now's not a good time to wank dewd...we being serious here.

 

[Tilda]

Originally posted by Ensceptifica
Okay, suppose with the popular Hib group - 2x druid, 1x bard, 1x warden, 2x pb, 2x tank - you run into the mid group. What would be the most efficient way of killing the mids? What should be changed about this group to make it more efficient?

I find that pure hib tank groups get annihilated by mid groups too easily, because mid tanks are basically superior (especially with the current relic status). Hib casters do more damage, but they get torn down before they can kill a tank thanks to the barrage of healing.

I do think druid aoe (insta) root might be the key to beating down such a mid group... the extra CC can be used to stop the tanks, so mages can focus on killing the shaman first, then the healers...

if i were running a hib group, i'd get 3-4 chanters, and box very well. If the savages go for you, you QC pbaoe and just normal PBAoE, if you get hit, MoC.
If the savages stay out, /assist debuff nuke the shammy, then healers down.

If you cant do a pure chanter group, have 2-3 chanters following a slam tank, he slams a savage, you pbaoe it dead.

etc

Tilda

 

[old.Nol]

that poor shield tank...

 

[Jiggs]

you get up at 6am and steal their melee relics

 

[Ensceptifica]

Originally posted by Tilda
if i were running a hib group, i'd get 3-4 chanters, and box very well. If the savages go for you, you QC pbaoe and just normal PBAoE, if you get hit, MoC.
If the savages stay out, /assist debuff nuke the shammy, then healers down.

If you cant do a pure chanter group, have 2-3 chanters following a slam tank, he slams a savage, you pbaoe it dead.

etc

Tilda

Okay, so you suggest a pb mage heavy group that relies on MoC and. Warden might be good then (yes Pin, I'd love to see a warden in the hib group (; ) to give em a bit of a longer life... Maybe replace a chanter with an eld for debuffs, so... 3 chanters, 1 void eld (or just another mana eld), 1 druid, 1 warden, 1 bard, 1 tank... maybe replace warden with second tank, maybe replace 1 chanter with second tank? ( :

 

[Ensceptifica]

What about replacing 1 of the mages by an animist btw? ( :

 

[faderullan]

Vs a very good midgård group the only chance to win as a alb group is to start with sos. Kill as much as you can during this. Probably can kill 2 or top 3 enemies. Which all will be insta ressed. After that you just keep killing healer after healer until they run out of power and PR's. Meanwhile our support of 2clerics and 1 sorc have to stay alive as long as possible. We get a free minute with 2xbof. After that. If we alb tanks have killed the healer power before savage start whacking clerics fast then albs will win.

Pretty much need purge up for all also... Even with that its not even sure its enough with the 3 cc types of midgård.

So vs a very good midgård group the fight will last for almost 5 minutes.

Of course this dont work without ra's.

Vs a more normal group with the same midgård setup. The same tactic goes just that they die so much faster and dont need all ra's etc.

 

[Puppetmistress]

Originally posted by Pin
dump the warden imo. pbt = shit against multiple savages. Get a voidy in there instead.

NOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The warden is the key!

We've beaten quite a few Mid-tank groups with our own Hibbie-group (mostly tank heavy and 1 chanter) and I can say we won ALOT of fights because our support could kite the Mid-tanks through the TWF.

Basic order when using TWF is mostly Healers --> Shaman --- > Tanks.

Yes, PR is a bitch, but we used:

Kill healer1.... Healer1 gets PR'ed, kill healer1 immediatly again (who aint buffed now), now PR is down (because healer2 used it and healer1 is eating grass).. Now kill healer2 followed by the shaman. Then they got no rezzers up anymore and no end and it's all about just surviving

Also for Hibs: We use bard, druid, druid, warden so we got 4 rezzers. This means there should be in-combat rezzes as soon as a druid or a bard dies. Druids should rezz eachother if both have 40 regrowth because then it costs no power (the mana it costs to rezz the druid 100% is the mana he gets off the rezz basically). Bard/warden takes care of rezzing tanks, toss in 1-2 heals so they're up to 50%, tell them to use FA or hope they catch a lucky spreadheal of a druid

Best spec for the druids is one regrowth/nurture, one regrowth/nature and after the initial mezz (purged? or they get out of it) use either ST-root (available on all druids) or AoE root incase you got a massive pack of tanks. Dont kick in the AoE-root too soon, you might break the mezz on support-classes without determination still being mezzed.

Druids: Use mana-potions
Tanks: Use end-potions. IF your bard dies you still need endurance, use them and pray for the bard he gets a rezz soon.

Chanter is always nice to have in a Hib-group, they add PBAoE (safespot for support, kite them through it while yelling PB PB PB PB like an idiot in /g) and they got a pet with a nasty habit of interrupting enemy-support classes. Chanters can heat-debuff and nuke the crap out of enemies too

And /pray... I think that's the most important thing

 

[StormriderX]

I find killing the healer/shammy that got pr'd straight away helps. If you drop a pr'd healer he can't pr his buddies :x

 

[cougar-]

Originally posted by old.Nol
that poor shield tank...

its me