What is a Good Relic Raid?

[Aybabtu]

Originally posted by Tivook
Mids will probably do a alarmclock raid or a logout raid withing a few weeks just to show you how it feels to get fu*ked up the ass without knowing about it.

Tiv

Your already to late - we already know how it feels to get fucked over by 200mids at 5 in the morning.....I know your a troll by try to come up with a plan that does not require alarmclocks.....

 

[Aybabtu]

Oh and btw - There isn't gonna be any "Good relic raids" as your all aware people will find somehing to whine about anyway, so........

 

[kirennia]

suprised no1 has pointed this out but isn't there a part in 1.65 that states that you wont be able to log out in a frontier in fact, and that you will be returned to your borderkeep if logged out for more then 20 minutes? So all the ideas about bringing that in aren't fresh but yeah it is being bought in.

As for the difference between log-out raids and alarm clock raids. Log-out raids in primetime are done when there are a number of people on the srver able to defend. The last alb raid was done with over 3000 people on the server and we only ha\d 200 at the relic keep (others were at other keeps and moved to amg) so there is no excuse why mids only mustered 2fg to come try and defend while shouting for making FOtM groups in their bk.

Alarm clock raids are done when there are no defenders about. If no1 can see the difference, there is something seriously wrong with your head.

As for the relation to real life raids at 4am etc while the enemy has eben sleeping, thats different. Numebr one because that isn't a game but number 2, because the defence is woken up when they are attacked. They don't walk off somewhere else to go to sleep so they wont be woken up if a relic is attacked, they remain in the fort and are woken up when attacked. Why anyone is making this comparison I do not know cause it is quite obvious a game CAN have certain rules to benefit everyone whereas a war cannot. Well, apart from the geneva convention but thats a different story

 

[skile]

Well, about nr5. Ofcourse it's defendable. Just get 200 people to amg in odins. But i guess you are to lazy to organise that?

 

[Bleri McThrust]

What is a good Relic Raid ?

One that is well organised and fun to take part in

The organisation that has gone into some of Albions Relic Raids recently has been enormous and for that most of the thanks should go to Herbal and Lac. However I feel that the big and suprisingly easy success of Sundays RR owes some part to the harrasement of Mids that has been going on in Jamtland recently.

Over the months weve seen an immediate 200 Mid response wittle down to what did become sometimes no response at all. This was all part of the psychological plan.

My own perfect ideal would see Albions forces amass at TK and then move out. There wouldnt be any logging off at points in the frontiers etc and there have been a fair few of these . But all realms have done this and will continue to do it untill its not possible anymore. For Sundays raid I know that groups had been moving to there spots for over 24hrs and surely Albion was expected to use that tactic. Didnt anyone think the movements around the Mid frontiers was strange? Well yes they did but nothing was done about it. Disappearing Mids/Hibs in Albions frontier has in the past seen all kinds of panic reactions and measures.

Sundays RR was my last and it was a pleasure to be a part of it. Over nearly 2 years Ive taken part in every type of RR imaginable. For sheer background planning Herbal/Lac recent raids have been the most impressive. The tension that builds up to there raids is incredible

But the RR that sticks out in my mind as being the most fun, was one of Finsters. We took the relic keep and held it from the Mids whilst the first relic got home. When the relic was safely at Excal we then proceeded to steal the other 2 from under the Mids noses . That was an awesome day

 

[Flimgoblin]

There's two problems with making a "good " relic raid in the way people seem to think it should be...

I'd say the ideal relic raid would be an RvR thing and not a PvE thing - unfortunately, with two entire realms fighting noone can move, think, plan or do anything.

And if there are any overly purple realm guards around they mop up the poor drooling players who are too lagged to respond.

So, we have a problem:

Relic raids that just involve killing guards aren't "good".

Relic raids that involve players fighting have too many and get unplayable.

It would be good if the success of a relic raid came down to the spells you used on the enemy, and how many trebuchets you brought to attack/defend - but that's not going to happen in the near future anyway

 

[Glottis_Xanadu]

Originally posted by Tivook
Mids will probably do a alarmclock raid or a logout raid withing a few weeks just to show you how it feels to get fu*ked up the ass without knowing about it.

Tiv

Albs already know this.
Ardarmels has done it 2 times already. I'm sure he can organise a 3rd time.
Regards, Glottis

 

[old.Ramas]

Originally posted by kirennia
suprised no1 has pointed this out but isn't there a part in 1.65 that states that you wont be able to log out in a frontier in fact, and that you will be returned to your borderkeep if logged out for more then 20 minutes? So all the ideas about bringing that in aren't fresh but yeah it is being bought in.

This applies if you attempt to log into a keep (home or enemy realm) which is under attack if you were logged out for > 10 minutes. Logging into a random spot in Forest Sauvage would not be affected.

 

[old.Ramas]

If *really* want to fx it, then the problem in my opnion, is not anything that happens on the day of the raid; the problem is that raids, despite having objectives that are regarded as a strategic success, are won or lost as single events, the ongoing war each night in Emain/OG/HW is utterly irrelevant.

If you want to end this silly legalism over what sort of raids are 'cool' you need to make the ongoing war count, with the raid itself just being the capstone encounter.

Example of one possible way to do it....

Put a magical shield around each relic keep which enemy players can't pass through.

The magical shield is powered by magic battery.

Whenever a frontier keep falls to an enemy, NPC wizards/RMs/Elds use a shrine in that keep to perform some spell which steadily drains the shield battery, the more keeps that fall quicker the battery level drops.

Run out of power and the shield drops for say, 36 hours. Or maybe just until the defending realm retake all their keeps and hold them for 18 hours straight.

Make it so you need a total of about 300 keep-hours to drop the shield.

Maybe have some alternate way to recharge the shield, maybe doing a courier mission adds 1 keep-hour.
_____________________

The point here is that you build a system where....

1) Frontier defence can genuinely contribute to avoiding relic raids by retaking keeps (and not through irritating NPCs).

2) Everyone can contribute to the how long you hold a relic or how quick you get a relic back no matter if they are online when a raid occurs.

3) You make the encounter itself rather more 'wild-and'wooly' since you don't get 4 weeks planning time, there is pressure to go when the shield drops. Hell, you might even convince people to use corpse summoners as a result. Logging out becomes less attractive, not because of whining, but because it's genuinely more difficult to arrange in the time window.

 

[AbPoon]

A raid where its actually hard to pull the raid off because of defence, but then Albs have 2 wall climbing classes and the "godmode" combo to get through the mg everytime with no problem and add to this the big pop difference pulling off a prime time relic raid as an Alb is a no brainer.

But then its all fair as Albs have the roughest time in RVr due to some dodgy classes, Mid being overpowered atm and Alb having a large population of clueless tosspots.

But gratz on the raid, if i still played Excal i might have been pissed

 

[neutrino]

For me, the most fun RR's are the ones where you actually get to fight some enemies and not just guards.

So, I dont like alarm-clock, ninja or login raids since they all have a very good chance to finish before a single defender show up (regardless of realm).

The 3 raid types could probably be avoided or made a bit more difficult by:

Alarm-clock:
nightshift of npc-guards for relic-keeps should be x4 or maybe even more so that it would be much harder to take relics at completely silly times. (times for this could be debated).

Ninja:
Just have a few more, and generally harder guards in relic keeps - this might at least give defending realm time to do react before its all over.

Login:
Very good idea from Xaj - if you log out in a frontier, you get teleported back to pk when you log back in


The fun about the relic raids in general (for me at least) is the possibility of big epic fights... I dont want to waste my time participating in a raid where i just have to fight guards for 20 mins to get the relics... its boring tbh. Only thing left is of course for goa to give us some servers that can handle these big fights :-/

 

[Meltin`]

hmm

A good relic raid is one that works.

Simple as that.

 

[Aussie-]

Originally posted by xajorkith
Mythic need to sort this out the last point out. If you log off in an enemy frontier you should be put back into your portal keep.

must be fun when you camp sauvage with a sb and you suddenly go ld

 

[xajorkith]

Originally posted by Belomar
Xajorkith, how would the last primetime Mid relic raids be judged on your scale of "good relic raids", btw? And how come these issues never surfaced then, since both the logout and the ninja tactics were used?

The idea of this post is an attempt to shape future Relic Raids not to judge past Relic Raids. Why have I posted this now? It is Midgard with no relics; it will be us, who will next be judged, I want Midgard to be first to do the perfect raid.

The perfect raid requires a huge and unprecedented amount of skill to pull off, it will make a hero (from whichever realm) of the person that does it, who has that skill? Not me.

Thanks for the replies folks

 

[old.Nol]

I think some things need to be considered with regards to population here. How can hibs possibly compete with either mids or albs in numbers at MG's after rr's? Hibs cannot zerg keeps, setup summoners then beat their way through the MG, it's impossible because the numbers of the defenders exceed the number of attackers.

We can't get 200 people together for a raid, so we either carry the relic through MG or epic dungeon to try equalise the numbers we face.

I wish we could leave 200 people at the MG and take 200 people on the raid, but it's impossible, even with 2 months worth of organisation.

 

[old.Filip]

agre nol... which it was different

Filip

 

[Ygdrisil.]

/qoute

Reading the threads on the relic raids is hysterical tbh.

Its highly ironic to see so many people posting about 'lame' tactics used by albion when their own realm has used those same tactics to the same effect in the past and they have lauded the generals behind those tactics.

Its always the same flamers, Alb flamers, Mid flamers, Hib flamers, you know you're all the same don't you? Most of you have been flaming so long you don't realise that you have become that which you hated.

A good relic raid is a myth. Its that simple - there will always be someone who will cry 'spy' or 'hack' or 'unfair ra' etc etc

It would be great if we could sit here and say ahh well thats kids for you. The horrible thing is the chances are its not kids, but adults who should know how to form a coherent argument and how to take the loss of a relic.

The only people who have moral high ground here are hibbies - most of whom have been fighting as the underdog from day one. These lads deserve alot of respect for their continual refusal to lower themselves to questionable tactics - neither my realm (Albion) nor Midgard have any leg to stand on as regards rr lameness or acceptable standards.

The players crying bug, nerf, cheat, unfair population and all the rest of it should take a leaf out of hibernias book. Lack of numbers is a handicap that can be circumvented with good planning, dedicated players, leaders and teamwork.

C

//qoute

Totally agree with this chappie here, except for the part about them tweehuggers can't say i like em but on a whole well said!

oops used wrong quote at first

 

[old.Ramas]

Originally posted by Ygdrisil.
A good relic raid is a myth. Its that simple - there will always be someone who will cry 'spy' or 'hack' or 'unfair ra' etc etc

Some people will always whine.

But it should be noted that with a few exceptions (most notably the world cup and the early days when we hadn't conclusively agreed not to do 3am raids). Most people have been happy with vast majority of raids. Most people are just less vocal than the few whiners.

Even when mid started the alarm clock thing, most people accepted that it was the only way to do relic raids without server crashes. And the alarm clock raids stopped as soon as the server upgrade came. /shrug

Actually the vast majority of people on excal are pretty reasonable, and whiners aside, this server has a much better record of not taking the piss on relic raids (all realms) than people give it credit for.

 

[old.Ramas]

btw, there is some conversation above over whether sneaking through the dungeons is ok.

Of course it is ffs.

Personally I think it's a rather dubious strategy, and personally I wouldn't recommend it.

But Mythic even put in changes to specifically to make this route more practical, so it's certainly not abuse to run through the dungeon.

 

[corpse-summoner]

What is a good relicraid well i would say the one that works is for sure.
There was a sort off agreement that alarmclock raids is kinda lame just too easy.
Logging off in frontier i would say isn't that lame only reaction time is rather low.
When you now there are groups logged (read hidden) in your realm log chars in your relickeep and go on alert for the next day.
You mids where to confident about your relics.
Don't condamm this raid for you have done it also set a example in your next raid how it should be done the ball is in your court sort of speak.
Try to make a raid wich would impress all realms