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stighelmer
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- #31
I know
Just did not want to start another alb vs mid flame fest.sowwy
Just did not want to start another alb vs mid flame fest.sowwy
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old.Ramas
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- #32
Any raid that aggros the first relic keep guard between 1800 and 2300 UK time on a weekday is fair.
Or between 1400 and 2300 UK time at the weekend.
Anything else is irrelevant.
Or between 1400 and 2300 UK time at the weekend.
Anything else is irrelevant.
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old.Ramas
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- #33
That said I'd be happy to support a change made by Mythic which moves anyone who logs out in an enemy frontier straight back to their teleport keep.
But until that happens log out is a fair tactic.
The 'correct' rr plan that Mythic would like you to follow is to start at your atk, take all the keeps in between that and the relic one at a time, setting up corpse summoners as you go.
Of course, only a madman would think that practical.
But until that happens log out is a fair tactic.
The 'correct' rr plan that Mythic would like you to follow is to start at your atk, take all the keeps in between that and the relic one at a time, setting up corpse summoners as you go.
Of course, only a madman would think that practical.
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herjulf
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- #34
BS then nightime is by yor defenition a "fair" raid.
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telaron
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- #35
The most fun way to raid would without any doubt be if the relic force had to fight it's way all the way from tk.
However if even the zone can hold it, 700+ people fighting at relic keep is not going to be fun. It would only be a lagfest where the ones beeing inside the keep, outnumbred or not, is likley going to win.
Personally I normally get uberlaggish if 300 people are fighting at the same keep. This would really be something for mythic to adress.
Regarding the ninja thing it's possible for all realms. Sure us albs have it easier but it is really one advantage we have as a realm. But if mids never use more then 2 savages and 1 healer in the same group, aswell as healers and bards stop using their insta aoe cc sure
Anyway, something that is explicilty given to a realm by developers as an advantage can hardly be called lame, not using it would be stupid.
What could be defined as lame is using out of game stuff to your advantage. For example raiding at a weird time or even switchting to another charachter for up to 24 hours.
It's clearly what mythic intended by having patrols scounting frontiers reporting how many enemy that killed them. However, imo 500 attackers charging a well defended relic keep still likley would kill the server and if not then the lag would make the whole thing pitiful anyway.
I still think an alarm clock raid is far more lame then a login raid. First because of the planning and organisation it takes. Getting 500 people to do their assigned thing, log at correct spot, login at correct time etc sure takes far more effort, planing and is riskier then doing the same at 6 am.
I don't know exactly for how long time spawn albs where logging the last raid but I know it was at least 18+ hours. Doing this without beeing spotted is impossible.
The defenders, in this case mids, however couldn't be arsed to leave DF and emain or whatever they were doing to wait for the attack that several knew was coming.
So just as albs where logging in your frontier you could've had chars logged in Mjolnir and therefor at least had the chance to defend. Unlike if it was done at alarm clock time.
However I think everyone thinks the most fun would be to have huge battles etc but unfortantley the game doesn't really support this now.
However if even the zone can hold it, 700+ people fighting at relic keep is not going to be fun. It would only be a lagfest where the ones beeing inside the keep, outnumbred or not, is likley going to win.
Personally I normally get uberlaggish if 300 people are fighting at the same keep. This would really be something for mythic to adress.
Regarding the ninja thing it's possible for all realms. Sure us albs have it easier but it is really one advantage we have as a realm. But if mids never use more then 2 savages and 1 healer in the same group, aswell as healers and bards stop using their insta aoe cc sure
Anyway, something that is explicilty given to a realm by developers as an advantage can hardly be called lame, not using it would be stupid.
What could be defined as lame is using out of game stuff to your advantage. For example raiding at a weird time or even switchting to another charachter for up to 24 hours.
It's clearly what mythic intended by having patrols scounting frontiers reporting how many enemy that killed them. However, imo 500 attackers charging a well defended relic keep still likley would kill the server and if not then the lag would make the whole thing pitiful anyway.
I still think an alarm clock raid is far more lame then a login raid. First because of the planning and organisation it takes. Getting 500 people to do their assigned thing, log at correct spot, login at correct time etc sure takes far more effort, planing and is riskier then doing the same at 6 am.
I don't know exactly for how long time spawn albs where logging the last raid but I know it was at least 18+ hours. Doing this without beeing spotted is impossible.
The defenders, in this case mids, however couldn't be arsed to leave DF and emain or whatever they were doing to wait for the attack that several knew was coming.
So just as albs where logging in your frontier you could've had chars logged in Mjolnir and therefor at least had the chance to defend. Unlike if it was done at alarm clock time.
However I think everyone thinks the most fun would be to have huge battles etc but unfortantley the game doesn't really support this now.
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Zoldot
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- #36
a "well done raid"
imo is
with less then 200 ppl.
Bringin the relic trough mile gates and not trough dodens or anything. Not using ninja tactic.
And would be specially good if it was at friday/saturday/sunday
16.00-02.00
tho if the raid starts at 23.00 or something and keeps going on several hours ofcourse later then 02.00 but if you start a raid at 03.00 thats lame imo.
It's a shame that alb have SoS tho. makes me think that they never deserve the relics. it's much easier to get the relics if you got SoS. then you just zerg the amg and the group with the relic put SoS on and minstrel is uberbuffed and the clerics ready with insta heals.....
And the best relic raids is by far done by hib (cant vote on own realm)
I know mid has done some pretty lame raids ...
We ofc have the one when mid took the relics when it was football final brazil vs someone.
Thats very lame imo (ofc I wasn't on the raid)
oh forgot to say that if you take relics with "bugged" necros^^ then it's also not well done
Edit: forgot to say that it has to be done via TK, no alarm clock raids or log in raids.
btw poopy got banned? what a shame^^
I guess he got a new acc anyway and I can guess who it is
Hello poopy!
imo is
with less then 200 ppl.
Bringin the relic trough mile gates and not trough dodens or anything. Not using ninja tactic.
And would be specially good if it was at friday/saturday/sunday
16.00-02.00
tho if the raid starts at 23.00 or something and keeps going on several hours ofcourse later then 02.00 but if you start a raid at 03.00 thats lame imo.
It's a shame that alb have SoS tho. makes me think that they never deserve the relics. it's much easier to get the relics if you got SoS. then you just zerg the amg and the group with the relic put SoS on and minstrel is uberbuffed and the clerics ready with insta heals.....
And the best relic raids is by far done by hib (cant vote on own realm)
I know mid has done some pretty lame raids ...
We ofc have the one when mid took the relics when it was football final brazil vs someone.
Thats very lame imo
(ofc I wasn't on the raid) oh forgot to say that if you take relics with "bugged" necros^^ then it's also not well done
Edit: forgot to say that it has to be done via TK, no alarm clock raids or log in raids.
btw poopy got banned? what a shame^^
I guess he got a new acc anyway and I can guess who it is
Hello poopy!
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old.Ramas
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- #37
What is this? Proof by non-sequiter?
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Belomar
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- #38
Xajorkith, how would the last primetime Mid relic raids be judged on your scale of "good relic raids", btw? And how come these issues never surfaced then, since both the logout and the ninja tactics were used?
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Zoldot
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- #39
lol so damn true
tho hibs also take relics with tactics
(tho alb also uses tactics, like ninja raid etc
)
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Belomar
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- #40
Most stupid comment so far. SoS was not used on this raid, nor the one before this one. Albs had AMG pretty much in our own hands, thank you. And why should we not use the tools we have at our disposal, it's not like the other realms do not?
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deerstalker
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- #41
But the horse of troy is probably the first Log-In raid ever in the history of warfare.
Putting troops onto a beach from submarine. Parachute drops. all are equivilent of log in raids.
Best time to attack an enemy is 4am in the morning.. when they have been sleeping but have not had enough sleep to be at top form.
As far as I'm concerned, all tacktics used in this game are just reflections of real life tactics and all are valid.
I understand that alarm clock raids are frowned upon due to real life commitments, but for any other type of raid all are valid.
When ss alliance first tried a keep farming excersice in the early summer.. 200+ mids turned up and wiped us out before we had the second door down. ( this was on a normal keep )
This time the plan was to hit the four jmatland keeps in sucsession.. Hibs actually took bled at the time we were buffing up.. Therefore you had plenty of time to get people to suvuds faste to ammount a small defence of bled. A force , if it had existed, could have been divereted to the relic keep and stopped the raid dead. For information the first mid I saw while watching the road was a green con sm ( after he died
). when the first few groups of mids did eventually turn up at the relic keep ( after the 3 door was down. but before the others ) they made one slight faint and then ran off. I'm not critisiing mids here. After when the call was sent out for help at mmg hw. there were people in CS waiting on "Cleric if Balanced Group" and other such requests.. This cleric turned up in a group after the mids had been pushed off twice ( ie 2 ports ) .. It's pathetic.. people are more intrested in getting rp's and not giveing rps to an enemy than defending thier realm. That is why the relics were taken, not for any use of a specific tactic.. From the other thread an sb reported 5fg albs moving through jmatland who promptly vanished. As for the rez sick argument..
Albs bind in goth harbour next to the healer.
Where do mids bind.. Ageir's landing has a healer by the stairs . it's only 3 steps outside the bind radius. The porter to the right of the teleport has tickets to suvds faste. it can be used to go to the relic keep. not just emain port or south to df.. or haven't you figured that out yet ?
DS
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old.Ramas
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- #42
Albs tend not to trust relics to SoS after the incident on one of Kirennia's raids when a minstrel in a relic carrying group fired up SoS but found some bug where it only affected that minstrel and not the group.
Relic got lost and alb had to try to hold Mjol until the two hour limit elapsed before we could try again, mid eventually resecured Mjol with 20 minutes to spare .
Hence the large numbers at the amg on every raid since then.
Relic got lost and alb had to try to hold Mjol until the two hour limit elapsed before we could try again, mid eventually resecured Mjol with 20 minutes to spare
.Hence the large numbers at the amg on every raid since then.
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Zoldot
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- #43
I wasn't talking about this raid in particular I was talking about albs raid overall.
btw read my other post? were you less then 200 ppls on this raid?
Edit: I sad its a shame alb have SoS, ofc we would use it if we had it thats why I said its a shame akb have SoS since know I never know if it were zerg or tactic etc
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telaron
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- #44
Zoldot I find most of your comments rather stupid. Why on earth shouldn't a realm use it's advantage? For albion it's superior numbers and wallclimbers.
It's like saying you hibs and mids shouldn't use insta CC, and mids shouldn't really use savages and as my wizard don't have a pet no other caster should us it either.
What I really fail to see is what numbers have to do with it.
It's like saying you hibs and mids shouldn't use insta CC, and mids shouldn't really use savages and as my wizard don't have a pet no other caster should us it either.
What I really fail to see is what numbers have to do with it.
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Aussie-
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- #45
do you have a clue with how many you were yesterday?
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Driwen
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- #46
Originally posted by Aussie-
do you have a clue with how many you were yesterday?
since when cant a mid find a relic raid done by his own realm stupid?
Also I doubt we had more than 200 mids there, but cant really tell as I was only online for the defence of beno where we surely had less than 100 mids.
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Tivook
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- #47
Mids will probably do a alarmclock raid or a logout raid withing a few weeks just to show you how it feels to get fu*ked up the ass without knowing about it.
Tiv
Tiv
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Sajko
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- #48
that's like saying "well Radar works so until they fix it its fair to use!" oO Either u want the lame loginraids or u dont.
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old.Ramas
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- #49
No, it's like saying that if you intend to remove a perfectly fair tool in the name of making the game more interesting then you change the rules for everyone at the same time, and not go through stupid witch hunts debating which side of the line someone's raid was on.
I have no problems with the "morals" of logging in, but I accept that if it were possible to ensure 100% that noone is logging in, then that would not hurt the game.
Giving the less honest people a natural advantage by declaring that 'cool people don't log in' does not seem beneficial, and turns fun rvr planning into a facile excercise in legalism.
If, for instance, Formula 1 teams were banned from using some electronic gizmo as of next season, would it be 'lame' to continue using it until then?
Savages are allowed to continue doing too much damage.
Enchanters were not cheating when they nuked through walls.
Logging out in an enemy realm is just fine. (and I say this as a member of the only realm currently in possession of relics that other realms want)
If you had to use 3rd party programs in direct contravention of 'teh rules' to log out in the enemy realm - then, and only then, it would be an unfair tactic.
I have no problems with the "morals" of logging in, but I accept that if it were possible to ensure 100% that noone is logging in, then that would not hurt the game.
Giving the less honest people a natural advantage by declaring that 'cool people don't log in' does not seem beneficial, and turns fun rvr planning into a facile excercise in legalism.
If, for instance, Formula 1 teams were banned from using some electronic gizmo as of next season, would it be 'lame' to continue using it until then?
Savages are allowed to continue doing too much damage.
Enchanters were not cheating when they nuked through walls.
Logging out in an enemy realm is just fine. (and I say this as a member of the only realm currently in possession of relics that other realms want)
If you had to use 3rd party programs in direct contravention of 'teh rules' to log out in the enemy realm - then, and only then, it would be an unfair tactic.
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Jarrax
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- #50
One thing i do remember from Murphys /cg on saturday, when we were planning Mids own RR..the question arose if we should do a log in or assemble and move from mpk. Virtually all decided on the move from mpk in zerg mode, as log in raids are pretty lame. Funny old world ain't it.
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Aussie-
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- #51
ok guardreport on Eras was 250 but thats prolly fake isnt it
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Aussie-
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- #52
don't you know albs have a teleport guy that instaports 500 ppl to our startpoint?
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gunner440
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- #53
hah alarmclocks :x
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quinthar
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- #54
Surely that implies we dont know its coming? I do..I expect nothing more from the mids.
After the totally botched mid attempt last week I dont think many albs would be surprised by an alarm clock raid, its not as if its something new is it..
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quinthar
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- #55
What you are essentially suggesting is that you actually considered a log out raid....funny world aint it...
The outcome of the question is irrlevent, it goes to intent.
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belth
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- #56
Mids'll prolly try raid us when Foundations is out and when ToA is out...
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Zoldot
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- #57
I said if it should be classed as a Well done RR imo it should be what I wrote. ofc u can use ur advantages, just that it isn't exactly well done if ur 200 more ppl then the enemy and uses ninja raid and go trough dodens and use SoS I dont feel like its a challenge. Maybe u didnt read my whole post?
I didnt sad u shouldn't use ur chance to do ninja raid, just saying its not classed as a "well done" raid then imo. well done maybe is wrong word but anyway.
Many raids are well done but whatever, you know what I mean.
Next time read my whole post and try to understand it before u post a comment pls.
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Jarrax
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- #58
I said the question arose (as in someone suggested it)..it wasnt considered to be an option by the vast majority, and was dismissed.
Our intent was to do a good primetime raid, with no "dubious" tactics.. was yours?
no wait...dont answer....the answer is in excalibur.
*ps has to be said, whatever the outcome, some good organising was done on that RR.
What i'd like to know is, how many albs said "OOhhh....snow!"
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cleeve
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- #59
Reading the threads on the relic raids is hysterical tbh.
Its highly ironic to see so many people posting about 'lame' tactics used by albion when their own realm has used those same tactics to the same effect in the past and they have lauded the generals behind those tactics.
Its always the same flamers, Alb flamers, Mid flamers, Hib flamers, you know you're all the same don't you? Most of you have been flaming so long you don't realise that you have become that which you hated.
A good relic raid is a myth. Its that simple - there will always be someone who will cry 'spy' or 'hack' or 'unfair ra' etc etc
It would be great if we could sit here and say ahh well thats kids for you. The horrible thing is the chances are its not kids, but adults who should know how to form a coherent argument and how to take the loss of a relic.
The only people who have moral high ground here are hibbies - most of whom have been fighting as the underdog from day one. These lads deserve alot of respect for their continual refusal to lower themselves to questionable tactics - neither my realm (Albion) nor Midgard have any leg to stand on as regards rr lameness or acceptable standards.
The players crying bug, nerf, cheat, unfair population and all the rest of it should take a leaf out of hibernias book. Lack of numbers is a handicap that can be circumvented with good planning, dedicated players, leaders and teamwork.
C
Its highly ironic to see so many people posting about 'lame' tactics used by albion when their own realm has used those same tactics to the same effect in the past and they have lauded the generals behind those tactics.
Its always the same flamers, Alb flamers, Mid flamers, Hib flamers, you know you're all the same don't you? Most of you have been flaming so long you don't realise that you have become that which you hated.
A good relic raid is a myth. Its that simple - there will always be someone who will cry 'spy' or 'hack' or 'unfair ra' etc etc
It would be great if we could sit here and say ahh well thats kids for you. The horrible thing is the chances are its not kids, but adults who should know how to form a coherent argument and how to take the loss of a relic.
The only people who have moral high ground here are hibbies - most of whom have been fighting as the underdog from day one. These lads deserve alot of respect for their continual refusal to lower themselves to questionable tactics - neither my realm (Albion) nor Midgard have any leg to stand on as regards rr lameness or acceptable standards.
The players crying bug, nerf, cheat, unfair population and all the rest of it should take a leaf out of hibernias book. Lack of numbers is a handicap that can be circumvented with good planning, dedicated players, leaders and teamwork.
C
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old.Ramas
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- #60
At least this makes a change from debating precisely what moment primetime ends at.
Which is what usually happens in this thread after a relic raid.
Which is what usually happens in this thread after a relic raid.