We're out!

[ileks]

Lol. So, I pay income tax on about 12 grand and take the other 60 home at less than 20% and you think that's minor?

Furry muff




Edit: Oh, I've been awarded a trophy? Like 5000 posts or something. I didn't know posting on FH was just like playing Battlefield

meant to quote you but i liked it by accident

No that's not minor to me. What I am saying is in the grand scheme of things it is.

The whole tax system (the one you criticise) is set up to undermine your argument. You get paid more, you pay a higher proportion of it as tax. You buy an expensive property, you pay a higher proportion as stamp duty. You have more shares invested away, you pay a higher proportion of the dividends as tax. you have more bonds, you...

 

[Punishment]

I don't understand why the UK is leaving itself out in the cold over this, as my ex said to me once, are you getting into bed or not as it's bloody cold out there

So in or out ?

Smacks of the difficult child at the party wanting everything their own way

 

[JingleBells]

meant to quote you but i liked it by accident

No that's not minor to me. What I am saying is in the grand scheme of things it is.

The whole tax system (the one you criticise) is set up to undermine your argument. You get paid more, you pay a higher proportion of it as tax. You buy an expensive property, you pay a higher proportion as stamp duty. You have more shares invested away, you pay a higher proportion of the dividends as tax. you have more bonds, you...

No:
You become a contractor, probably the only shareholder in a Ltd company. The company you work for will pay your own company, you pay yourself minimum wage, claim expenses (new laptop, that's for work I need those GFX cards for Excel, tax free) and take a dividend at year end with 19% corporation tax. Unless you're going to become a CEO it's pretty much the only way to actually make money in IT (and probably several others)
You want an expensive property? The property is conveniently owned by a company who happen to just own that property, you buy the company not the property and pay minimal tax compared to the stamp duty

BTW Scouse, didn't Gordon Brown try to change the way contractors & tax worked?

 

[ileks]

You're talking about using divident tax credits which become insignificent the more you earn (undermining Scouse's point again). Do you really think you could get away with paying corperation tax on the vast majority of your earnings?

How many properties bought/sold in the UK do you think abuse that system?

 

[Job]

the rich..i.e. company directors, entrepreneurs, pay less tax because they make the money which pays the wages, it would hardly be an incentive to take on great risk or responsibility if the government grabbed it all back.
It/s our way of saying thankyou for the jobs..now go spend it.

 

[Embattle]

I don't understand why the UK is leaving itself out in the cold over this, as my ex said to me once, are you getting into bed or not as it's bloody cold out there

So in or out ?

Smacks of the difficult child at the party wanting everything their own way

Being in the room with no one talking to you is little different from being outside the room with no one talking to you.

 

[DaGaffer]

Smacks of the difficult child at the party wanting everything their own way

The "difficult child" would like to go to the party, but not if he has to give away all his toys to to the other kids at the door.

 

[rynnor]

Fundamentally people from the UK do not see themselves as European - Europe starts at the channel.

Thus there has never been much appetite to be part of 'the European Project' - some politicians have been keen but in general the people of the UK just want the common market and rail against 'interference' from Brussels.

As the focus of the EU moved towards ever greater integration that was never going to sit well with the people of the UK so its pretty much certain that unless the direction of the EU changes we will end up leaving.

 

[Scouse]

The whole tax system (the one you criticise) is set up to undermine your argument. You get paid more, you pay a higher proportion of it as tax. You buy an expensive property, you pay a higher proportion as stamp duty. You have more shares invested away, you pay a higher proportion of the dividends as tax. you have more bonds, you...

I'm saying you're wrong and it doesn't really work that way.

It works that way for the plebs, not the rich.

BTW Scouse, didn't Gordon Brown try to change the way contractors & tax worked?

Blair did - and he failed. He wanted to force one-man-bands to stop having the same advantages as big companies like IBM and EDS - who pay fuck all tax.

I.E. He wanted people who take real risks in exchange for the rewards that come with it to pay tax like any other employee, but he wanted to keep his mates in big business quids-in.

 

[Zenith.UK]

Fundamentally people from the UK do not see themselves as European - Europe starts at the channel.

Thus there has never been much appetite to be part of 'the European Project' - some politicians have been keen but in general the people of the UK just want the common market and rail against 'interference' from Brussels.

As the focus of the EU moved towards ever greater integration that was never going to sit well with the people of the UK so its pretty much certain that unless the direction of the EU changes we will end up leaving.

My exact sentiment about all this. Thanks for putting it so concisely rynnor.

Right now, I think we'd be better off out of the EU altogether and have a free-trade agreement, just like Norway and Switzerland. The average person in the UK simply doesn't think of themselves as european. I never have, and I doubt I ever will. Europe to me is a byword for "interfering".

 

[Job]

The Europeans must have the english speaking culture rammed down their throats, it doesn't happen the other way, the last German I saw on TV was Merkel..and a year before that...er Merkel again.
European news never appears in the UK mainstream, unless it's some suit inventing a new law, a dog with six toes in Arkansaw gets more news than the whole of continenal Europe put together.

 

[ileks]

I'm saying you're wrong and it doesn't really work that way.

It works that way for the plebs, not the rich.




Blair did - and he failed. He wanted to force one-man-bands to stop having the same advantages as big companies like IBM and EDS - who pay fuck all tax.

FFS. It doesn't matter if IBM pay fuck all tax. Any EO or major shareholder that draws an income from it pays huge amounts of tax.

Would your scheme work if you were earning say, 300k? No, a higher and higher percentage would be paid off as tax.

 

[Gumbo]

Fundamentally people from the UK do not see themselves as European - Europe starts at the channel.

Yes, I remember getting mangry at TDC for referring to the continent as 'the mainland'.

 

[Ctuchik]

We've battled Europe before and have yet to lose.

As far as i know you haven't HAD a war with Europe, that's why you haven't lost against it.

 

[throdgrain]

As far as i know you haven't HAD a war with Europe, that's why you haven't lost against it.

We've fought every bugger in Europe individually, and beat 'em all to (I think).

And just about every other bugger in the world too

 

[rynnor]

To be fair even a bunch of Welsh women defeated one french invasion. The weather took out various armada's and we sunk the rest.

 

[throdgrain]

Great Britain is the national version of Millwall FC, everyone hates us, and we don't care

 

[Chilly]

FFS. It doesn't matter if IBM pay fuck all tax. Any EO or major shareholder that draws an income from it pays huge amounts of tax.

Would your scheme work if you were earning say, 300k? No, a higher and higher percentage would be paid off as tax.

It's the difference between a salaried income and just income. If you work for a company, as the vast majority of people do, you have almost no choice but to pay all your tax at whatever band the government has decided to charge you this month.

If you OWN a company, the profits that company made may we withdrawn in a variety of ways, but generally speaking the most you will pay in tax on taking profits is 28%. I work for a company and earn enough money to be in the 40% tax bracket, there's nothing I can do about it as I'm not a contractor.

 

[ileks]

It's the difference between a salaried income and just income. If you work for a company, as the vast majority of people do, you have almost no choice but to pay all your tax at whatever band the government has decided to charge you this month.

If you OWN a company, the profits that company made may we withdrawn in a variety of ways, but generally speaking the most you will pay in tax on taking profits is 28%. I work for a company and earn enough money to be in the 40% tax bracket, there's nothing I can do about it as I'm not a contractor.

If you OWN a company, you pay corperation tax on the profits. You then pay tax on dividends which ranges from 10 to 42.5%.

In the case of small scale contractors doing this it may be more tax efficient but the difference isn't huge and gets smaller ans smaller when more money is involved. Declaring laptops or cars as company expenses is a different matter I accept- but becomes negligable when talking about the real "rich".

 

[Ctuchik]

We've fought every bugger in Europe individually,

Yes that you have, but that's different.


Yes i'm being retardedly picky here

 

[throdgrain]

Yes that you have, but that's different.


Yes i'm being retardedly picky here

Shut up you spaz

 

[Scouse]

FFS. Guff, and off-topic of my post.

ileks. I'm saying you're wrong because you think that the rich pay all their due tax, or tax on dividends at the applicable rates. I'm saying "no they don't". I'm saying there are ways around them that are cost-efficient for the rich.

You repeating crap like:

If you OWN a company, you pay corperation tax on the profits. You then pay tax on dividends which ranges from 10 to 42.5%.

doesn't make it true. The rich don't pay it. You just think they do. Like a fool

 

[throdgrain]

 

[TdC]

Yes, I remember getting mangry at TDC for referring to the continent as 'the mainland'.

yeh you hurt my feelings! nah not really, but tbh I was a bit surprised it was such an important thing to you.

 

[ileks]

ileks. I'm saying you're wrong because you think that the rich pay all their due tax, or tax on dividends at the applicable rates. I'm saying "no they don't". I'm saying there are ways around them that are cost-efficient for the rich.

You repeating crap like:



doesn't make it true. The rich don't pay it. You just think they do. Like a fool

Of course the rich pay it you fucking idiot. dodging the odd percentage here or there doesn't change that (you don't seem to understand this).

Something like a quarter of all income comes from the top 1% of earners. Every single breakdown of a progressive tax system backs me up.

If they are illegally dodging tax in a major way (not claiming a fucking laptop occasionally) you wouldn't know about it. Yet this is what your argument is based on- and you call me a fool!

I've had this argument with annoying lefties before. They don't really know how, but they are sure the rich are dodging taxes.

 

[Raven]

You're wasting your breath.

 

[Chilly]

Of course the rich pay it you fucking idiot. dodging the odd percentage here or there doesn't change that (you don't seem to understand this).

Something like a quarter of all income comes from the top 1% of earners. Every single breakdown of a progressive tax system backs me up.

If they are illegally dodging tax in a major way (not claiming a fucking laptop occasionally) you wouldn't know about it. Yet this is what your argument is based on- and you call me a fool!

I've had this argument with annoying lefties before. They don't really know how, but they are sure the rich are dodging taxes.

Plenty of ways to do it. Family trusts for house selling/buying. Similar thing for dodging inheritance tax (which I massively dissaprove of, either spend your money or be prepared to give it back).

 

[ECA]

Surprised nobody posted this yet.

I think niggels a bit of a pratt, but I do enjoy his speeches at the european parliament.

 

[Ch3tan]

Ileks you clearly dont know any tax accountants, you aremtalking utter tripe.

 

[Raven]

Similar thing for dodging inheritance tax (which I massively dissaprove of, either spend your money or be prepared to give it back).

Back to who? The government? To the lazy?

Off you fuck.