Games Well done Texans and fuck you beeb

[Wazzerphuk]

Random websearch of the day

http://factofthematter.net/articles/beer.html

In short, plastic is oxygen permeable whereas glass isn't, then you have UV light which is also bad for beer as it causes a reaction with the hops.

OFC this may not have any discernible effect on fizzy pop lager because it tastes like shit in the first place but you would never find decent beer in a plastic bottle (for a reason!)

Liquids also react with metals.

Edit. Lab equipment is also made of glass for a reason, it would be cheaper to use metal but they use glass because metal is bad mkay.

You're wrong. Again.

My girlfiriend's dad works at the Coca-Cola factory. They have to have very slightly different recipes depending on what it's going to be stored in, since the flavour will be affected.

Pretty embarrassing for Tom, this one. How's that for your required proof?

 

[Tom]

According to that site, the main impediment is oxygen loss. Which so far, not one person here has mentioned, preferring instead to comment on "flavour". And since in a busy pub or bar the bottles will be on the shelf for no more than a week, oxygen loss is irrelevant.

So I still call bullshit. You're going to have to do a lot better than that.

Now come on, who's going to demonstrate that they can taste the difference between water bottled in plastic, and water bottled in glass?

 

[old.Tohtori]

I use a tap, bottled water is for wankers

 

[Raven]

The idiocy is astounding.

We aren't talking about water, we are talking about beer. Beer has ingredients that change when subjected to oxygen, water doesn't. The original point was we don't want bottles banned because plastic makes beer taste like crap...not water.

Just open a beer and leave it on the worktop for a day or so and see how the taste has changed. It is the same thing with plastic bottles but slower.

There isn't any point in arguing with you because you don't seem to have a concept of being wrong when you have been demonstrated to be wrong, pretty clearly!

 

[DaGaffer]

According to that site, the main impediment is oxygen loss. Which so far, not one person here has mentioned, preferring instead to comment on "flavour". And since in a busy pub or bar the bottles will be on the shelf for no more than a week, oxygen loss is irrelevant.

So I still call bullshit. You're going to have to do a lot better than that.

Now come on, who's going to demonstrate that they can taste the difference between water bottled in plastic, and water bottled in glass?

Oxygen ingress affects the flavour of beer. Its says that specifically in the article. And you're the only one talking about water (and please don't say "beer is mostly water" because that's the most ludicrous argument ever. Its the bits that aren't water that make it taste like beer). Frankly, it wouldn't matter if the perceived difference in taste is entirely psychosomatic; in practical terms that makes absolutely no difference, since our entire interaction with the physical universe is subjective anyway.

 

[old.Tohtori]

Quite what Gaffy said; even if the plastic cup versus glass is just a placebo effect, it's still an effect and as such it changes taste.

 

[Scouse]

I have to say this is the most spectacular bit of thread derailment I've seen in quite some time. Mods on the case I see.

No. We just moved onto a more important topic than American Facism - or I'd have thrown my toys out the pram

My girlfiriend's dad works at the Coca-Cola factory. They have to have very slightly different recipes depending on what it's going to be stored in, since the flavour will be affected.

/thread tbfh

 

[Poag]

My girlfiriend's dad works at the Coca-Cola factory. They have to have very slightly different recipes depending on what it's going to be stored in, since the flavour will be affected.

Pretty embarrassing for Tom, this one. How's that for your required proof?

I've always wondered why Coke in cans and coke in bottles tastes so different. Figured it was reactions with the container rather then different recipes at the source.


I rate this post highly informative!

 

[fettoken]

I knew there was a slight difference with canned Cola and bottled! Bottle is always better.

 

[Tom]

There isn't any point in arguing with you because you don't seem to have a concept of being wrong when you have been demonstrated to be wrong, pretty clearly!

Except everyone here is basing their ideas on one website (lacking sources, I might add) and their personal opinion. And I might add, that website mentions flavour with regard to only one type of plastic bottle before discussing at length various other technologies available to stem any such effects.

All I'm asking people to do is prove it with a taste test.

http://www.azom.com/article.aspx?ArticleID=351

See that? Four months before noticeable degradation. And that's an 11-year-old article. I worked in a quiet pub for four years, there wasn't a single bottle of beer that ever sat on a shelf for four weeks, let alone four months. And you can bet your arse that if glass bottles are banned (hopefully), brewers won't just sit on their backsides and let customers who prefer glass slide away, they'll do something about your concerns. Which, for the last time, are hugely over-rated.

 

[Raven]

er, that's an article discussing ways to stop beer stored in plastic from tasting like crap. It doesn't mention that these expensive methods being used as industry standard to avoid what you claim is made up from happening are currently being used.

You have just proved our point that beer stored in plastic bottles tastes worse than in glass.

You're claiming it is all in out heads
Then post a link to something that confirms that beer tastes different in plastic.


You aren't making any sense at all.

As for taste tests. I brew my own beer, I ran out of glass bottles so used a couple of plastic ones. The ones stored in plastic tasted horrible, that's all the taste testing I need to do. All sterilised before use and all stored in the same place.

 

[Scouse]

Fine Tom. Ignore the vast reams of people who swear blind that packaging material matters in terms of taste (including coca cola who have to change their recipe). I'll not debate you any more on that.


How about health effects of plastic packaging - which is a big topic across the EU at the moment?

Chemical Migration from Plastic Packaging into Contents

People are exposed to these chemicals not only during manufacturing, but also by using plastic packages, because some chemicals migrate from the plastic packaging to the foods they contain. Examples of plastics contaminating food have been reported with most plastic types, including Styrene from polystyrene, plasticizers from PVC, antioxidants from polyethylene, and Acetaldehyde from PET.
Among the factors controlling migration are the chemical structure of the migrants and the nature of the packaged food. In studies cited in Food Additives and Contaminants, LDPE, HDPE, and polypropylene bottles released measurable levels of BHT, Chimassorb 81, Irganox PS 800, Irganix 1076, and Irganox 1010 into their contents of vegetable oil and ethanol. Evidence was also found that acetaldehyde migrated out of PET and into water.
Recommendations

Find alternatives to plastic products whenever possible

Like glass?


Face it. Glass wins. Every time.

 

[Wazzerphuk]

Yeah, a number of water plastic bottles tell you not to re-use them. That toxin leak is the reason why.

 

[Zenith]

Actually wrote a paper on this in psychology. Basicly, our perception of flavor is synesthetic, meaning that all of our senses are used for flavor. Flavor is not only our tastebuds on the tongue, but we taste with our ears, eyes, touch and smell, as well as our mouths. What kind of glass we are drinking from would dramatically change our tactile (as well as perhaps our somatory) reaction, and therefor the overall taste.

 

[old.Tohtori]

One of the basics in chef work even.

 

[opticle]

In Tom's defence, the definitive way to do this is a blind taste test where the drink is delivered from the container to mouth without contact between the tester and the container.

You can argue and talk about oxygen all you want, but until you do that you haven't definitively proved anything - you just have a theory.

Just like homeopathy

 

[Scouse]

In Tom's defence, the definitive way to do this is a blind taste test where the drink is delivered from the container to mouth without contact between the tester and the container.

The argument is that beer tastes shit out of a plastic glass. Zenith's post 2 up nails it right on the head - and it does.

Tom's attempted to redefine the argument to something more favourable to him - but even then it's been shown the plastics have taste problems (coca cola change their recipe because of plastic and beer ISN'T stored in plastic - despite the cost-benefit) - and health concerns.

The beer industry itself would save itself a lot of cash by wanging beer in plastic - but they don't. Why would that be, I wonder?

 

[Raven]

It's simple science. Oxygen effects the ingredients in beer. Plastic is Oxygen Permeable. result=???

 

[opticle]

So there's oxygen. Does that affect the taste? If so, prove it

Coca cola could just be worried about the effect of oxygen in spoiling long term.

Sure, storage might be an issue long term, but what if its come out of a keg into a glass/plastic cup??

Then oxygen exposure means fuck all, because there's no top.

= it doesn't necessarily affect taste in short term. *shrug*

Please note: I'm not saying it doesn't affect taste, I'm just saying if you want to actually prove it..

 

[Job]

LOL..beer tastes like shit fullstop..have you ever stopped to think how goddam awful it tastes...if they invented it tomorrow and gave you a glass..youd spit it out over the carpet..surely when they first brewed it they must have said..this tastes like its gone off.

 

[Raven]

So there's oxygen. Does that affect the taste? If so, prove it

Coca cola could just be worried about the effect of oxygen in spoiling long term.

Sure, storage might be an issue long term, but what if its come out of a keg into a glass/plastic cup??

Then oxygen exposure means fuck all, because there's no top.

= it doesn't necessarily affect taste in short term. *shrug*

Please note: I'm not saying it doesn't affect taste, I'm just saying if you want to actually prove it..

Nobody needs to prove it, it is like asking to prove whether gravity exists. Oxygen and air in general makes beer go stale as with any other natural foodstuff. Real beer doesn't have as many preservatives in it (when I make it, it has none at all - except for the alcohol) so is susceptible to going off quickly.

Kegs are sealed anyway, if you open a keg of beer you need to drink it in less than a week...or bottle it (in glass bottles!)

We aren't talking about chemical lager here, but beer.

 

[Job]

I thought the answer was toughened glass, you make the bottles and glasses out of the same stuff used in car windscreens, then when smashed the assailant just has a handful of glass slivers which will cut his hand first.

 

[opticle]

Kegs are sealed anyway, if you open a keg of beer you need to drink it in less than a week...or bottle it (in glass bottles!)

We aren't talking about chemical lager here, but beer.

Sure, but we're talking about the taste of drinking out of glass or plastic - if the beer is put in a glass glass or a plastic glass straight from a keg, then all the Oxygen and going stale argument is removed.

Or are we saying it tastes the same if it comes straight from a keg to the glass/plastic ?

I've no doubt there are differences in storage over time - seems obvious - though, I know I'm being pedantic but to definitively prove there is a difference you have to do the right experiments. Then no one can argue with you ever

Gravity wasn't understood, proven or accepted as it is until someone did experiments and thought about it.

 

[Raven]

Sure, but we're talking about the taste of drinking out of glass or plastic - if the beer is put in a glass glass or a plastic glass straight from a keg, then all the Oxygen and going stale argument is removed.

Or are we saying it tastes the same if it comes straight from a keg to the glass/plastic ?

I've no doubt there are differences in storage over time - seems obvious - though, I know I'm being pedantic but to definitively prove there is a difference you have to do the right experiments. Then no one can argue with you ever

Gravity wasn't understood, proven or accepted as it is until someone did experiments and thought about it.

Yeah then the difference is minimal, how it is served...though then it is the feel of the cup that effects taste psychologically but the point was banning glass bottles, not glass, glasses

 

[old.Tohtori]

I can just imagine drinking some jack daniels from a plastic semensample cup

 

[opticle]

Yeah then the difference is minimal, how it is served...though then it is the feel of the cup that effects taste psychologically but the point was banning glass bottles, not glass, glasses

Ah. Sorry.

Well.. that's that then.. *tumbleweed*

 

[Ormorof]

I can just imagine drinking some jack daniels from a plastic semensample cup

semen sold seperately?

 

[old.Tohtori]

semen sold seperately?

I hope so, i like two drips instead of the usual one.