Wedding Trashers!

[Jjuraa]

I just wanna comment to the" i didnt know the person that died part."
First of all i wanna say that sure...people die everyday. And most of them you dont obviously know. But as a human being you tend to go through different things in life(especially if you are a little older) that makes you feel more and more with other human beings, some have it allready at an early age..and some are from how you were raised by parents and what values you got from them. You develop a thing called empathy, that makes you put urself into another humans feelings and thoughts for a sec and makes you feel what they are going through and understand it a bit. Some have less of it..some have more. Now is also a good time to mention respect as so many of the people in these boards adress. Some of the people that bore us to death with ur in game respect blabber, are probably saying that you wouldnt mind anyone crashing this ungame funural etc. Now that makes me wonder how much you know about the world or what the meaning of some words really are. I was brought upwith some values saying that the worst thing and the most disrespectfull thing one could do was to disturb someone that mourns or crash someones funural..or jump at graves at graveyards etc. Now that is to show no respect...not the silly nonsence you talk about on these boards daily.
And have to agree with some posts here. It makes me ashamed to play with some of you even in the same game. Im trying to think some of you are just kids that dont know better. That makes me less angry.
over and out...

another person who cant differenciate between real life and a computer game. and is going round calling other people children at that. how do you know what im like in real life? its unlikely we've ever met.

The talk of respect ingame i "bore" you with are based on values i hold INGAME. not in real life. If you think im march up to an enemy on the battlefield that just shot me and say "wtf? this was a 1v1 stop adding you bastard" then youre sadly mistaken.

by all means flame my ingame values, by all means flame my in real life values if you ever hear them. but dont try and flame my in real life values because of what goes on ingame. "kid".

 

[CstasY]

Jj you're nothing without me! :<

 

[Pirkel]

oh really? why then are my views the views of a "bastard" and yours are the views of an angel sent to earth? do explain. you cant just say "xxx is a bastard" and expect to get away with it. pm me your thoughts if youre that nervous about voicing them but dont do the forum equivilent of a hit and run

It takes a lot more then the likes of you to make me nervous.

And I really don't feel like entering a discussion with you on this matter. If you can't read what I mean from the posts by many other people in this thread it would be a waste of time. I doubt you have the balls, or the cognitive ability, to admit your views are the views of a very sick and sad person anyway.

Flame away! You're back on my ignore list, thanks for reminding me why you were on there in the first place.

 

[Blackjack]

And there's the fallacy in all of these presumptions: it was, in point of fact, a virtual memorial in a virtual world with virtual characters. In these circumstances, anything not against the rules of the game is permissible.

The mourners had a right to create the event and that guild had a right to absolutely massacre everyone in attendance. Both sides, by logging in and accepting the Terms and Conditions of the game, were simply "players". You're on shaky ground if you're trying to apply real life human morality (which is flawed and utterly subjective anyway) to a violent fantasy world filled with trolls and magic and endless killing.

This whole thread is nonsense and QQ. A memorial in game was profoundly inappropriate and did not consider the diversity of the game's player base. A thread in a forum would have been far more appropriate, sensible, and a lot less tacky.

wrong, it's real memorial in a virtual world with virtual characters for a real person.
And you are right, no rules in the game stops you from ruining it.
But basic human decency should.

memorial in game was profoundly inappropriate.

the fact that you think that a memorial in game is more inappropriate, than ruining an even to honor a real life person who died. Is frankly disturbing and says more about you than anything else.
RP's > RL
And it perfectly demonstrates Blokkies point that it's you and not the people who defend memorials who can't separate the game and real life.

 

[ebenezer]

another person who cant differenciate between real life and a computer game. and is going round calling other people children at that. how do you know what im like in real life? its unlikely we've ever met.

The talk of respect ingame i "bore" you with are based on values i hold INGAME. not in real life. If you think im march up to an enemy on the battlefield that just shot me and say "wtf? this was a 1v1 stop adding you bastard" then youre sadly mistaken.

by all means flame my ingame values, by all means flame my in real life values if you ever hear them. but dont try and flame my in real life values because of what goes on ingame. "kid".

I dont know you in rl no..but im the same person here on these boards as in rl...i dont act like im somebdoy else. Do you? if not then i base my knowledge about your opinions on these boards...and my opinion about having empathy etc stands. You made ur opinion clear about that in the post i quoted. Im not saying ur a bad person. But you dont seem to have the same values as me. And i mostly feel for people that i hear have a hard time...or relatives to peiple dyin. You dont seem to care as much about that. Which is sad. The kid part if you read it again were my way of thinking to not get upset about some of the view said here, again you missraed it. if you are kids ot not i have no clue about, and i dont really care it was a way for me to not get upset with the lot of the people stating some absurd views on these boards. if you fit in there....well only you can answer that. if it werent tru you can just say. well thats not me sorry. But starting a counter attack of ur magnitude doesnt really cut it
over and out..

 

[ebenezer]

It takes a lot more then the likes of you to make me nervous.

And I really don't feel like entering a discussion with you on this matter. If you can't read what I mean from the posts by many other people in this thread it would be a waste of time. I doubt you have the balls, or the cognitive ability, to admit your views are the views of a very sick and sad person anyway.

Flame away! You're back on my ignore list, thanks for reminding me why you were on there in the first place.

I seen his exploits on these boards before and i dont think anyone is suprised by his views here...as i see ny the people answering him. He mis interpet and twist a lot of what is said about him, and that is some poeple way of defending a point that is allready lost in space^^
We gotta accept that everyone have different views...but we dont have to agree with them...
Also its good to know who to trust...and who think what. its the madmen that lurks in the dark that we should worry about
And as you say, we all know who to put on ignore and what not..i dont got many, but i got a new one now

 

[d34k]

wrong, it's real memorial

Please define your terms here, because I think that's the crux of this argument (and I think you're utterly wrong). A gathering of characters in a computer game is not, in any sense, the same as this girl's actual funeral being crashed by a drunken mob or her gravestone being defiled by vandals. It doesn't carry that kind of obvious moral weight; plus its general tackiness detracts from the sentiment.

And you are right, no rules in the game stops you from ruining it. But basic human decency should.

But it didn't, did it? Therefore I contend two things: first, that "basic human decency" does not exist in the sense you understand it (and all morality is necessarily subjective); second; that such "real life" moralities cannot expect acquiescence when applied within a computer game with a fantastically diverse player base who may, or may not, subscribe to these moralities out of game and/or may additionally see no place for them in game.

the fact that you think that a memorial in game is more inappropriate, than ruining an even to honor a real life person who died. Is frankly disturbing and says more about you than anything else.

And the fact that I didn't actually say that says what about you?

RP's > RL
And it perfectly demonstrates Blokkies point that it's you and not the people who defend memorials who can't separate the game and real life.

It obviously demonstrates no such thing.

 

[Shike]

The lack of empathy in some people is indeed very strong inhere. Not very surprising though since we all face alot if weird people everywhere, not just on the net.

To some of the people who wrote in this thread, I'm guessing you know who you are..

Grow up, mature, improve your social intelligence and you might some day be able to call yourself an adult. The disrespect for the dead is showing nothing but how small of a person you actually are, doesnt matter if you knew or didnt know the one who passed away, a dead person is still a dead person and that person meant something for alot of people, dont disgrace his/her memory with your perverted view of life. If you are so obsessed with yourself that you absolutely must express your lack of interest and respect, just do it in an alley somewhere, where nobody can hear you. That way you cause no harm to anyone at all and still get to hear your own voice that you so desperately love.

 

[noblok]

And there's the fallacy in all of these presumptions: it was, in point of fact, a virtual memorial in a virtual world with virtual characters.

Virtuals characters in a virtual world does not make it an in-game event. The people who attended were not playing a game. The virtual characters were not attending as virtual characters. It's a real life event in a virtual environment.

 

[d34k]

The people who attended were not playing a game.

And there's your mistake.

 

[liloe]

I might want to add something. The "it's a game" remarks are true, but let's see that from a different perspective. How did people get to know that person? Through the game. Have people met that person irl? I don't think so. Are people here spread over half the world? Yes indeed they are.

I think if everybody lived in the same village, nobody would hold an ingame event, they'd just meet irl at the funeral and stand together at this place.

Now all the people here come from different nations, live hundreds and thousants of kilometers away from each other, so how should they meet up? A 50man video conference or IRC is not really an option and neither of them give the feeling ppl had during their time with the dead. So people try to have something visual, something that reminds them at least a bit of what used to be. At funerals you have someone talk about the dead, talk about memories and what the person used to be, so why are some ppl saying a memorial ingame has nothing to do with the person's real life?

No, I can't force people not to attack memorials, but I think it's simply wrong to do so. You say it's just a game? I say it's the only way these people who got to know the dead through the game can meet up again. It makes being together accessible, cause flying a thousand kilometers for 30minutes of being together doesn't really sound like an option to me.

 

[noblok]

And there's your mistake.

They did not attend to it because of in-game motives. When they attended, they did not let in-game standards play a role, thus raising it above the game level.

 

[ebenezer]

And there's your mistake.

quote the rest of what he said and its suddenly not a misstake?
comon...stop making a game of words and twist...and make some real points instead. if there are any real points to be made in this thread at all. Bottmo line is. the people that do care for this guy get hurt by seeing ur views. You are entitled to think whatever you like. But if you dont wanna hurt the people that do care(friends , family) maybe its time for you to aknowledge this?
If not, well...then people will think of you and the others here as being disrepectfull and a having no empathy. Im not sure if you guys care about it though^^
over and out..

 

[Blackjack]

Please define your terms here, because I think that's the crux of this argument (and I think you're utterly wrong). A gathering of characters in a computer game is not, in any sense, the same as this girl's actual funeral being crashed by a drunken mob or her gravestone being defiled by vandals. It doesn't carry that kind of obvious moral weight; plus its general tackiness detracts from the sentiment.

Memorial; "Serving as a remembrance of a person or an event"
It doesn't have to be people gathering in real life

But it didn't, did it? Therefore I contend two things: first, that "basic human decency" does not exist in the sense you understand it (and all morality is necessarily subjective); second; that such "real life" moralities cannot expect acquiescence when applied within a computer game with a fantastically diverse player base who may, or may not, subscribe to these moralities out of game and/or may additionally see no place for them in game..

It does exist. But is sometimes, it's just overshadowed by childishness, selfishness or pure greed...

And the fact that I didn't actually say that says what about you?
It obviously demonstrates no such thing.

Well it does and you have just demonstrated it again. But by all means, continue.

 

[MaCaBr3]

wrong, it's real memorial in a virtual world with virtual characters for a real person.
And you are right, no rules in the game stops you from ruining it.
But basic human decency should.

So what's more disturbing? People trying to implement human decency and real live social values into a virtual world or people not caring about those values because of the main reason that it IS a virtual world.

In my opinion the morale standard that some players implement into this game, makes it for the worse. It's forbidden to add, it's forbidding to gank, it's forbidden, to steal etc etc.

I don't have morales in a game, that doesn't mean I don't have human decency in real life.

 

[Ozilia]

Haha man, if I died, and someone brought an ingame-video of my "funeral" in a videogame to my parents, they would be even sader tbh, because they would realise how little RL i had before i died

Seriously it's a GAME. If you want to show you cared for someone who passed away in the game, go find out their RL address and send a postcard to their parents or whatever.
And having a memorial in the middle of Agramon is just stupid in 10 different ways..

 

[d34k]

So what's more disturbing? People trying to implement human decency and real live social values into a virtual world or people not caring about those values because of the main reason that it IS a virtual world.

A very good point.

In my opinion the morale standard that some players implement into this game, makes it for the worse. It's forbidden to add, it's forbidding to gank, it's forbidden, to steal etc etc.

Well, the reality of a morality such as choosing not to add is actually pretty self-serving (and, actually, so are all moralities... but that's a big philosophical can of worms).

Guilds running 8v8 GGs do not add only because they would like the favour returned. It's a concentual form of morality that has come in existence for the mutual benefit a niche of players. However, some guilds operate on the fringes of the 8v8 scene and have a slightly more utilatarianist interpretation of this morality -- and that's where the conflict arises.

Most sensible GGs have come to expect and accept the behaviour of zergs -- and thus kill them mercilessly should the opportunity arise. Whereas, if they run into another GG having a fair fight they'll drive right past them in the hope that this favour will be returned in due course.

So, er, my point was that having "no morals" in game is probably far more noble than the self-serving morals that others have created around themselves.

 

[noblok]

So what's more disturbing? People trying to implement human decency and real live social values into a virtual world or people not caring about those values because of the main reason that it IS a virtual world.

I am not saying you should implement human decency into a virtual world. You can chainkill/rob/insult NPC's as much as you want. I am saying that you should implement it at the level of human interaction, even if that interaction takes place in a virtual environment.

(and, actually, so [self-serving] are all moralities... but that's a big philosophical can of worms).

Feel like discussing this in a seperate thread in the off-topic forum?

 

[Shike]

So what's more disturbing? People trying to implement human decency and real live social values into a virtual world or people not caring about those values because of the main reason that it IS a virtual world.

In my opinion the morale standard that some players implement into this game, makes it for the worse. It's forbidden to add, it's forbidding to gank, it's forbidden, to steal etc etc.

I don't have morales in a game, that doesn't mean I don't have human decency in real life.

Thing is, DAoC is a MMORPG, where people make friendship, in some cases even develop love that lead to relations in the "real" world, people care about each other. Those things are not virtual feelings nor are they fantasies, those are real feelings, a feeling is always a feeling, it cannot be touched but yet it is indeed there. This is why I say some people lack empathy, since they fail to see it other than from their own narrow point of view.

With your way of generalisation there will never be such things, not even such a basic thing such as friendship that can evolve over time in a game. Since what is a virtual friendship if we go on your way of thinking? Nothing whatsoever. Why would you care? Why care about anything in the game at all, its all just virtual and doesnt exist, right? Screw morale, screw human decency, just because it is a virtual world where nobody feel nothing.

I've made tons of friends over the years in DAoC, there is alot of people I really would like to meet IRL over a beer and chat with, RL prevents me from doing this atm but I am damn sure I really like them. You can claim its virtual if you want to, but that only shows one thing, you have no friends ingame, or you would know what everyone is talking about. I doubt you have friends btw, since you even say you dont have any morales ingame. Who would wanna spend time or talk to a guy like that. I sure as hell wouldnt, since it probably is a silly kid with no experience at all we are talking about. Young people tend to think they know everything while they know so very little :/ I'm glad everytime I get the chanse to talk to a younger person with a brain and a developed social mind.

I'm betting most of the brats that have written inhere are pretty insecure, lack social skills, lack friends and also probably have a broken mind in some way (some just do it to provoke ofc, which is quite normal for some people, it gives them a kick in some way and I guess they think its cool in some way aswell, perhaps they just want some attention they lack irl, who knows). Thats ok, there are tons of people like that out there, but there is a difference in sitting and defending why you are behaving immature instead of just saying; ok, I may be wrong and yes, perhaps I should grow up and realise that there are people out there that feel more than perhaps I do. Should I respect that? Yea, ok, maybe I should. Or... I could go on and behave like an idiot, yea thats cool, why not. Beeing an idiot is of rox and gives me respect.

 

[Collateral]

i have played quite a long time on the german server lyonesse/hibernia. there, too once died a guy and there was too a big ceremonial to his honour. but it was organized by a gamemaster and noone dared to crash the party.

tbh, having a ceremonial in the middle of agramon with lots of rvr activity the same day...your fault guys.
...and that people dont give a shit about the death of another player...i can understand this too. i play this game for fun and i have enough worries during my working day. when i come online, i want to have fun and if people want to make those kind of ceremonials, they should do it at a spot, which is not in the middle of all the action.

btw, i would love to crash a wedding, because this is just too strange for a game. what about the link now?

 

[Bhalage]

Shikei, i so agree with you

 

[UriZeN]

for all those who say its ok to bomb a virtual funeral cause its bound under game rules, then i guess its equally ok to kill on or incapacitate someone irl for virtual reasons cause offenses are bound under irl counteracts!
after what ive seen although i disagree with both of the above cases, i would blame anyone of the ppl that gathered to pay tribute to the deceased if he actually hunt down every single one of these persons irl! because grief,respect,mentality and hate meet no terms nor have any suggested ways of beeing shown!

 

[ebenezer]

Thing is, DAoC is a MMORPG, where people make friendship, in some cases even develop love that lead to relations in the "real" world, people care about each other. Those things are not virtual feelings nor are they fantasies, those are real feelings, a feeling is always a feeling, it cannot be touched but yet it is indeed there. This is why I say some people lack empathy, since they fail to see it other than from their own narrow point of view.

With your way of generalisation there will never be such things, not even such a basic thing such as friendship that can evolve over time in a game. Since what is a virtual friendship if we go on your way of thinking? Nothing whatsoever. Why would you care? Why care about anything in the game at all, its all just virtual and doesnt exist, right? Screw morale, screw human decency, just because it is a virtual world where nobody feel nothing.

I've made tons of friends over the years in DAoC, there is alot of people I really would like to meet IRL over a beer and chat with, RL prevents me from doing this atm but I am damn sure I really like them. You can claim its virtual if you want to, but that only shows one thing, you have no friends ingame, or you would know what everyone is talking about. I doubt you have friends btw, since you even say you dont have any morales ingame. Who would wanna spend time or talk to a guy like that. I sure as hell wouldnt, since it probably is a silly kid with no experience at all we are talking about. Young people tend to think they know everything while they know so very little :/ I'm glad everytime I get the chanse to talk to a younger person with a brain and a developed social mind.

I'm betting most of the brats that have written inhere are pretty insecure, lack social skills, lack friends and also probably have a broken mind in some way (some just do it to provoke ofc, which is quite normal for some people, it gives them a kick in some way and I guess they think its cool in some way aswell, perhaps they just want some attention they lack irl, who knows). Thats ok, there are tons of people like that out there, but there is a difference in sitting and defending why you are behaving immature instead of just saying; ok, I may be wrong and yes, perhaps I should grow up and realise that there are people out there that feel more than perhaps I do. Should I respect that? Yea, ok, maybe I should. Or... I could go on and behave like an idiot, yea thats cool, why not. Beeing an idiot is of rox and gives me respect.

i agree with you.
But i know Mc well in game and im indeed one of his friends Therefor i also knows that having no human decency etc is not what he meant. I think what he means is he is tired of people who tries to implement the false kind of morals...as to what is right in the do and what not to do..(adding non adding etc). I know he ia a very decent guy...so must be a missunderstanding between the two of you I agree with Mc about the fals moral part, since i always found so many of those claiming to have morals and respect in the adding/solo discussions had none in the more "normal" human areas of the daoc world. They could treat someone like shit and then preach respect and morality etc. What bugs me in this discussion isnt only about crashing the ingame funural, but also how some people defend the action by saying its a guy i dont know etc, therfor he means nothing to me. thats the core of the anoyance to me. That people have views about a funural being held ingame is another thing, cause although i would never crash such a thing and would scorn upon it, i can understand how people would maybe think it might be the wrong place for it...i dunno. But as Liloe also stated its a nice way for people to meet up, since they have a manifistation of eachother here in the real world.
But as you say , some of the people posting are indeed kids and we have to take into account that they may never have lost someone...or know how that feels. And they are growing up in a much colder world nowadays that doesnt teach them the same values as some of us grow up with. So maybe we gotta start realising that the people that will be in our age when we grow older wont nurse for us , they will prolly execute us and take whats left
Jokes aside...Some need to grow up and smell the coffee
over and out...

 

[Blackjack]

So what's more disturbing? People trying to implement human decency and real live social values into a virtual world or people not caring about those values because of the main reason that it IS a virtual world.

The thing is i'm not asking him to be nice and play fair all the time. He can add, leech, cheat and steal. All he wants in his everyday DAoC playing.
A person within the comunity dying and people wanting to honor him or her is not everyday DAoC. If you don't want to be a part of it, fine. But atleast have the decency not to intentionally ruin an event for a dead player and friend.
All they ask if that you leave them alone for something like 2 hours so they can pay their respects in a way they find fitting. They are not preventing anyone from RvR'ing.

 

[Shike]

i agree with you.
But i know Mc well in game and im indeed one of his friends Therefor i also knows that having no human decency etc is not what he meant. I think what he means is he is tired of people who tries to implement the false kind of morals...as to what is right in the do and what not to do..(adding non adding etc). I know he ia a very decent guy...so must be a missunderstanding between the two of you I agree with Mc about the fals moral part, since i always found so many of those claiming to have morals and respect in the adding/solo discussions had none in the more "normal" human areas of the daoc world. They could treat someone like shit and then preach respect and morality etc. What bugs me in this discussion isnt only about crashing the ingame funural, but also how some people defend the action by saying its a guy i dont know etc, therfor he means nothing to me. thats the core of the anoyance to me. That people have views about a funural being held ingame is another thing, cause although i would never crash such a thing and would scorn upon it, i can understand how people would maybe think it might be the wrong place for it...i dunno. But as Liloe also stated its a nice way for people to meet up, since they have a manifistation of eachother here in the real world.
But as you say , some of the people posting are indeed kids and we have to take into account that they may never have lost someone...or know how that feels. And they are growing up in a much colder world nowadays that doesnt teach them the same values as some of us grow up with. So maybe we gotta start realising that the people that will be in our age when we grow older wont nurse for us , they will prolly execute us and take whats left
Jokes aside...Some need to grow up and smell the coffee
over and out...

I know he isnt realising what he's saying either, thats why I took the arguement to the extreme to show him how wrong he is in his statement. One would have to be very very cold as a person (to a stage where its totally not cool, even worse than Steven Segal!) to not feel anything or bond to others ingame and create this wonderful thing called friendship. He can relate that to part and thus I took just that part up since pretty much everyone can relate to it :>

About the false morale and such.. well.. I personally find it abit weird to put the ceremony middle of agramon since its bound to be crashed, and Im quite sure the organizer realise his mistake by now so I wont rant on about that since that horse is dead over and over again but..

Some of the posts in this thread are truly disturbing. Exactly as you say so we are on same wavelength there for sure.

And I truly hope my 3 kids wont kill me when Im too old to be of any use and dance on my grave, then I have truly failed to teach my kids the values in life.

Anyways, its friday, time for a cpl beers! Yihooo! Its weekend!! \o>

 

[Cazedy]

So what's more disturbing? People trying to implement human decency and real live social values into a virtual world or people not caring about those values because of the main reason that it IS a virtual world.

In my opinion the morale standard that some players implement into this game, makes it for the worse. It's forbidden to add, it's forbidding to gank, it's forbidden, to steal etc etc.

I don't have morales in a game, that doesn't mean I don't have human decency in real life.

Can't repp :<

 

[MaCaBr3]

I know he isnt realising what he's saying either, thats why I took the arguement to the extreme to show him how wrong he is in his statement. One would have to be very very cold as a person (to a stage where its totally not cool, even worse than Steven Segal!) to not feel anything or bond to others ingame and create this wonderful thing called friendship. He can relate that to part and thus I took just that part up since pretty much everyone can relate to it :>

About the false morale and such.. well.. I personally find it abit weird to put the ceremony middle of agramon since its bound to be crashed, and Im quite sure the organizer realise his mistake by now so I wont rant on about that since that horse is dead over and over again but..

Some of the posts in this thread are truly disturbing. Exactly as you say so we are on same wavelength there for sure.

And I truly hope my 3 kids wont kill me when Im too old to be of any use and dance on my grave, then I have truly failed to teach my kids the values in life.

Anyways, its friday, time for a cpl beers! Yihooo! Its weekend!! \o>

I was indeed generalising and of the reason I did it because it was my last 5 minutes at work and I had to make a quick post Silly I know

But don't get me wrong, I do make friends in the game, but the main reason for that is that I actually talked to them "in real life" on TS or whatever. I actually talked to them. I can't become emotionally bound to someone who I never actually spoken to. I've had chars in my buddy list since they day I started daoc, but I don't consider them as friends because I never actually talked to them. This might shock people with whom I do have a good understanding with without even talking to them in game.

I just wanted to say that, it's weird in my opinion, to become friends with someone u never talked to in real life - phone, ts whatever.

So far, the persons who I became friends with are the guildis I've met in real life and Ebenezer who I actually never met (but i'm planning to) because I talk to him outside of the game either by skype or whatever and therefor I've got to know him better.

Just to clarify myself.

 

[Gordonax]

I didnt know the person in question, never interacted with him, and maybe im alone here, but when someone dies that i didnt know, or had absolutely no connection with, i simply dont care.

Whether you care or not doesn't matter: what matters is that you have zero respect for the real life feelings of others. That, my friend, makes you an asshole of the highest order.

 

[Gordonax]

And there's the fallacy in all of these presumptions: it was, in point of fact, a virtual memorial in a virtual world with virtual characters. In these circumstances, anything not against the rules of the game is permissible.

And people's feelings aren't virtual. If you think that it's perfectly OK to do something that will add to the grief of someone who's had a close friend or relative die, then I pity you.

 

[Gordonax]

And there's your mistake.

Stop writing like a first year philosophy student and have some simple fucking human decency.