We are ace !!

[Flamin_Squirrel]

You're a retard.

 

[mr.Blacky]

But where do illegal guns come from?
My gues would be from guns stolen, stolen from legal owners. So in other words no legal guns means no guns stolen meaning no illegal guns. In total less problems with guns.
People are correct stating that there are illegal guns now but you have to start trying to get a solution sometime.
Taking a live is wrong, imho even when someones tries to rob you. Because who are you taking a live.

Perhaps not making much sense but I think I should have taken that KGB pill against getting drunk.

 

[Xtro 2.0]

Originally posted by mr.Blacky
But where do illegal guns come from?

they come from a land called kalashnykov where a little man trains mice to make them with their little paws and they work all day and night for twenty two hours and thirteen minutes and then they have to walk up to a bell and ring it and squeek three times so the man knows they are ready and he goes THANK EW five times in a row and all the people squeek and love him

 

[xane]

Originally posted by Cdr
Waving it around does not show an intention to kill. Even pointing the gun at a person does not show an intention to kill. In some circumstances actually killing someone does not show an intention to kill.

Why are you talking about killing ?

A threat is a crime, menacing action is a crime, scaring the shit out of people is a crime, waving a gun around is a crime, you intended to use the gun to threaten people.

 

[Flamin_Squirrel]

Originally posted by xane
Why are you talking about killing ?

Probably because you did

Originally posted by xane
You don't have to kill someone to show intention, merely waving the thing around as a threat, even if unloaded, or even if its a replica, is "use". It is a crime to threaten to kill or injure as well.

 

[jo.]

If someone wants to have a gun while they commit their crime, they're probably going to have one... you can't really stop that.
But by having gun laws and such, you're more likely to stop random anybodys having guns while they commit their crime.

I've explained that badly... but I think what I'm trying to say is that a "professional" criminal is less likely to panic and take things too far if it all goes a bit pear shaped...

Bleh... hope my point makes sense to someone.

 

[Flamin_Squirrel]

I see what you're saying, but the tight licencing controls that were in place before the ban stoped the random anybodys. All the ban did was to create a bigger market for black market weapons.

 

[xane]

Originally posted by Flamin_Squirrel
Probably because you did

Read your post at the top of this page.

 

[Deadmanwalking]

Originally posted by xane
Why are you talking about killing ?

A threat is a crime, menacing action is a crime, scaring the shit out of people is a crime, waving a gun around is a crime, you intended to use the gun to threaten people.

If guns were legal then the most that crime would be is Assault.

 

[Will]

The gun lobby has been getting very excited about the UK’s recent crime statistics. It is being suggested that because violent crime is on the increase in this country the handgun ban introduced in 1997 isn’t working.

This is simply false. The following facts may help to put the record straight.

• The overall rise in crimes of violence is 16% and the rise in robbery 26% so it is true that we seem to be becoming a more violent society generally. This is a matter of great concern to us all. There is evidence that the biggest growth is in street muggings related to the theft of mobile phones.
• Guns were used in only 4.7% of robberies in 1999 and 4.4% in 1998 so the problem is to a very large extent one of non-firearms crime. Our tight gun laws are undoubtedly responsible for the relatively rare use of guns in crime.
• Handgun homicide figures are very low and since 1980 have fluctuated from a low of 7 in 1988, through to 35 in 1993 and a previous high of 39 in 1997. So 42 gun murders in 1999 does not represent a statistically significant increase.
• There is evidence of a growth in the use of imitation guns in crime but no figures can be put on this. It is likely however that some of the rise in handgun crime is attributable to imitations.

Much recent research has highlighted the fact that the UK does not have a particularly low rate of violent crime but it does have a low rate of gun crime. This is because of our tight gun laws and because we do not have an armed police force. It is clear to the vast majority of British citizens that any relaxation of gun controls or the routine arming of the police would lead to an increase in the use of guns in crime. For these reasons such developments will be fiercely resisted.

Ripped off a pro gun control website.

 

[Flamin_Squirrel]

Originally posted by Will
Ripped off a pro gun control website.

Probably not a good place to look for statistics then

 

[Will]

I doubt the NRA would have any statistics I can use. Just because a site has a bias doesn't mean it made everything up. You may as well say because I have an opinion, anything I saw is biased and can't be used.

 

[Flamin_Squirrel]

Amusingly if you look at gun deaths if it shows anything its that the gun ban has made absolutely no difference, and that strict licencing was working. 1 extra death each year (with or without the ban) bring this staggering total to 42 in '99 ... thats an infinitesimal amount. Your more likely to die slipping over in the shower than get shot. How anyone can argue the ban was nessacary given those figures is out of their mind.

Indeed, i expect cannabis is related to more deaths than guns. It disturbs me you can be for preserving the minority rights of one group, and not another.

 

[Flamin_Squirrel]

Originally posted by xane
Read your post at the top of this page.

You said on the other page "Otherwise I'd suppose robbing a bank with a shotgun is not "intending to use it" either ?".

If your talking about using it in the pure sence of possesing a meanacing weapon to threaten people with to get what you want, it doesnt even need to be a real firearm for you to "use" it (replicas carry the same penalty). If you "use" a firearm, as in you pull the trigger, then odds are you will kill them, hence the whole killing thing was mentioned

 

[Will]

Originally posted by Flamin_Squirrel
Amusingly if you look at gun deaths if it shows anything its that the gun ban has made absolutely no difference, and that strict licencing was working. 1 extra death each year (with or without the ban) bring this staggering total to 42 in '99 ... thats an infinitesimal amount. Your more likely to die slipping over in the shower than get shot. How anyone can argue the ban was nessacary given those figures is out of their mind.

Indeed, i expect cannabis is related to more deaths than guns. It disturbs me you can be for preserving the minority rights of one group, and not another.

Heh, nice of you to bring up cannabis. Not a single recorded fatality ever.

As for the gun ban as compared to strict licencing, it probably doesn't make any difference, that is true in some ways. Most gun crimes will be commited with illegal guns anyway. As people have said, legal guns are a source of illegal guns. They certainly are in the US.

Handguns are for two uses, target shooting and personal defence. People who want to target shoot still have the option of rifle shooting, shotguns and rifles are still legal for various forms of hunting...so the ban on handguns can be justified that way. It was a knee-jerk, but would re-legalising them have any beneficial effects on society?

 

[FatBusinessman]

Originally posted by Will
It was a knee-jerk, but would re-legalising them have any beneficial effects on society?

We could go and shoot Flamin_Squirrel, would that count as beneficial?

 

[Xtro 2.0]

Originally posted by Flamin_Squirrel

Indeed, i expect cannabis is related to more deaths than guns.

buh?

Careful with that spliff Eugene.

 

[Flamin_Squirrel]

Driving under the influence etc.

My point about minority rights still stands though.

 

[Xtro 2.0]

I'm presuming you don't smoke weed? Forgive me if I'm wrong.

The last thing I want to do when I'm stoned is MOVE never mind drive. In 20 years of smoking weed with many good buddies I can say the same about them too.

Have you ever come across anyone who has been stoned and driven?

"Wherrrez the keyz for the car man?"

"Buhhh? What?"

"Uhhh keyss...for car."

"Why? Where you going?"

"Nowhere....buhhh...why you ask?"

"K."

"K."

 

[Will]

Cannabis users are hardly in the minority in this country, certainly not in the male 16-35 category.

(For everyone else, the cannabis thing is a personal go at my beliefs, rather than part of the debate)

Show me some stats to back the driving thing up. I'll just slap it back down with drink driving, but you can do it anyway.

Remember that the primary use of cannabis is not to get you too fucked to drive, while a handgun is designed to throw lead at people at high speed.

My opinions on minority rights, while not having a lot to do with governmental policy change, depend on how those rights impact on others.

[Edit] Stupid typo, damn Xtro got it in his quote though

 

[Xtro 2.0]

Originally posted by Will

Some me some stats to back the driving thing up. I'll just slap it back down with drink driving, but you can do it anyway.

Here's one stat I can confirm:


Tonight I will be royally fucking stoned.

End of.

 

[throdgrain]

Silly talk. Dope smokers are the most peaceable people around.

 

[Xtro 2.0]

Originally posted by throdgrain
Silly talk. Dope smokers are the most peaceable people around.

WTF? STFU!

 

[throdgrain]

I gave up 2 or 3 years ago now, after 18 or 19 years worth.

Motherfucker !!

Oop, nearly slipped back into me old violent ways then

 

[stant0s]

98 - 100 clays.

12 rabbits and 4 foxes in one sitting, rah

I Win!

I feel this has no relevance, but oh well fk it

 

[Yoni]

Originally posted by throdgrain
Silly talk. Dope smokers are the most peaceable people around.

Tis true I have never seen someone munted being violent. *Violently sick if they whitey yes but never violent*

How this thread went from guns and killing people to dope i dont quite understand.

 

[stant0s]

digression.

isnt that the way most threads go?

 

[Flamin_Squirrel]

Originally posted by Will
Heh, nice of you to bring up cannabis. Not a single recorded fatality ever.

As for the gun ban as compared to strict licencing, it probably doesn't make any difference, that is true in some ways. Most gun crimes will be commited with illegal guns anyway. As people have said, legal guns are a source of illegal guns. They certainly are in the US.

Handguns are for two uses, target shooting and personal defence. People who want to target shoot still have the option of rifle shooting, shotguns and rifles are still legal for various forms of hunting...so the ban on handguns can be justified that way. It was a knee-jerk, but would re-legalising them have any beneficial effects on society?

Legal guns are source of guns for use in illegal acts in the US, yes. Thats because they are easier to buy than a beer. Ive already said Im not in favour of something like that. Im for the very strict licencing that was in place before the ban which made owning a handgun difficult, but possible if u wanted one enough (and without a criminal record).

No Xtro i dont smoke weed, and im sure your right that most people who do dont drive after a splif. There is a minority of people who will, and accidents have occured because of it. Just like the majority of people who possesed a handgun did so legaly before the ban, and only a few who misused them (in fact, people aquiring illegal guns do, not the legal ones).

Will, i resent the accusation that im having ago at your beliefs. Im not. If you want to smoke weed noone should be able to tell you not to, because only a tiny proportion of smokers will cause a problem. This is my whole point. Guns and cannabis are both illegal, and both sets of users are a minority, and within that the missusers make up and even smaller amount.

As for claiming you think the minirity rights of those who want to legaly posses a firearm dont matter, due to their impact on society, thats bollocks. 42 people dying each year is not an impact on society, especialy when those lives were all claimed with illegal weapons.

 

[stant0s]

also, being stoned when driving aint that bad, certainly no where near as bad as drink driving.

every time we go out for a smoke the driver is doing like 30 in a 50 zone, I look at the clock and think fuck me, I thought we were doing 50-60. admittedly ya not exactly got amazing reactions, but christ I dont think i've seen so much concentration whilst driving when stoned.

I'll probably get flamed for saying this, but imo smoking whilst driving, especially round here in the sticks, is no clear danger.

 

[Flamin_Squirrel]

Yep i agree... but as you said your reactions are slower. Only takes someone to think they are alright to do the 50mph limit, then lose it.